Here is an example of what a little lag does to the skating engine.
This isn't just delay. It's weird stuff that happens in games that have "fat man lag"
I'm holding up and to the right here, what would be about 2:15 on the hour hand. Kessel refuses to turn and get to where the puck is going. He gets stuck facing one direction while skating another. And no, I wasn't holding LT here.
Another example. I'm red here. I get the puck, hold up and right, and instead my guy spins to the bottom left, losing the puck, before proceeding up.
Another clip, again look at red (Malkin). From a dead stop, after kneeling, he somehow gets enough momentum to be completely out of control so that when I try to stop in the slot in front of the goalie, he slides all the way into the net picking up speed as I try to stop, going across his blades the direction of his skate blades. This is the floaty skating I talk about. It's impossible to control your player when it's like this. I apologize it's from so far away and without the control guides, this was taken live and since it was online, I didn't want to waste my pause.
Try to look closely and you'll see him moving perpendicular to where blades are pointing.
In regards to Shero's fundamental rules; I would say TPS doesn't pervent us from doing any of those things. I would simply say a lot of players just don't know how to use it properly or refuse to.
I'd love to see a video of any 5v5 game where not a single player turns their back to the play. Surely if it were that easy, all of the best teams would be doing it. It doesn't even need to be both teams doing it, just your own team not turning your back to the play.
I'll wait.
Ok. Here is a video of just the first period I played in a completely random drop in this morning.
Where does the TPS cause/force me/my player (RD) to have his back completely not facing the play/puck when I don't need and want him to?
The penalty I took within the first couple minutes was complete **** too! I was just trying to keep the play in the offensive zone and his player skated into me and then it appears I threw an automatic shoulder/elbow into him. HA!
This was ten minutes of you purposely (I assume) playing slower in order to make correct turns and pivots because you know they take way too much time, against absolutely awful competition where you could get away with it. On top of that, you couldn't even compete your objective despite purposely playing out of position in order to try and compete it. If you played my team doing garbage like that, they'd put up 10 on you by simply exploiting your side of the ice.
Definitely, but in a fast paced game against forwards that sometimes have the advantage with their agility and puck carrying, us dman sometimes don't have the time to make more concentrated movements with our controls.
True. This is where positioning and anticipation really become the two key factors in separating good D-Men from great D-Men.
Also true.
Good anticipation is one strength of mine I take pride in. A lot of it depends on my teammates ability to recognize that though.
There are few things more satisfying than anticipating/reading a pass correctly and demolishing the guy a soon as he receives the puck.
@sethamphetamines clips are all you need to know about this skating engine.
IMO, I see instances where the left stick is being held at 100% range at all times. Not sure how you expect to control a player with total control when you're instructing him to go full force? Yes, there are animation issues I see as well.. but I'm not convinced that these clips were taken while the user controlling the player was feathering the stick and/or being cognizant of the weight/momentum of the player.
I'm also interested to know more about this unique strategy
kory there is no defending this skating engine any longer. whether he is finessing his stick or not these oddities happen all of the time. the control is simply not there no matter how good one's thumbs are.
it's killing the game and the majority of the community. there are roughly 50 xbox guys who went to PS4 recently because the XBOX EASHL community is literally dead and some think the game plays better on the PS.
pro series is now dead on both consoles. you can blame the community, but the community has become toxic because the gameplay is toxic.
@sethamphetamines clips are all you need to know about this skating engine.
IMO, I see instances where the left stick is being held at 100% range at all times. Not sure how you expect to control a player with total control when you're instructing him to go full force? Yes, there are animation issues I see as well.. but I'm not convinced that these clips were taken while the user controlling the player was feathering the stick and/or being cognizant of the weight/momentum of the player.
I'm also interested to know more about this unique strategy
So you're saying the solution is I should always be feathering? If I'm at a dead stop, and I need to take off in one direction to get to the puck, I should tap tap tap my way down the ice?
Like in the Kessel clip, it would have been better if I acted like a 5 year old their first time off the wall, than expecting my guy to pivot and skate towards where the puck was going? Or on the clip with Malkin, I should just expect that if I want to move closer to the net quickly and do a hockey stop, if I don't do it one small stride at a time, I'm going to go floating against the direction of my skates uncontrollably?
In the EASHL clip, when I get the puck in a pile of people, I should be feathering out of there, not trying to skate forward as quickly as possible, the direction I'm facing? Instead I need to feather the LS so I don't spin a weird direction for no reason?
Your recommendation is I need to do something unnecessary and counter-intuitive, counter-productive, in order to make the engine not screw up, and that is now user-error?
I don't expect to be able to zip all over the ice like I'm controlling some physics destroying UFO. I expect there to be effects of momentum on my skater. I don't expect my guy to get stuck to a pivot, to spin for no reason, or to slide through the slot despite me telling him to stop.
So yes, when I'm facing forward, and then press forward full force, I do expect him to skate forward, not turn into a pile of bodies and turn the puck over. When my player is in the middle of a pivot/spin, and I point to a direction full force that have him continue the spin and then sprint after the puck, I expect him to do that, not get stuck in the pivot.
As for your interest in the strategy in that picture, you can ask the EA dev's about the AI. My human LW was out of position and I admit that, I complain about it all the time. But what the RD and the RW are doing in the center lane of the ice by the blue line, you can consult the numerous complaints about the terrible AI in this game.
Edit: I also want to add that what I'm doing on the controller works offline, it works on great connection games, and it works pretty well on not-great connection games. These were from games that didn't have much delay, but had a ton of "fat man lag". That is why I posted them. To show what lag in the game does to the skating engine. If it works when there isn't a connection issue, then it's not just user error.
@sethamphetamines clips are all you need to know about this skating engine.
IMO, I see instances where the left stick is being held at 100% range at all times. Not sure how you expect to control a player with total control when you're instructing him to go full force? Yes, there are animation issues I see as well.. but I'm not convinced that these clips were taken while the user controlling the player was feathering the stick and/or being cognizant of the weight/momentum of the player.
I'm also interested to know more about this unique strategy
So you're saying the solution is I should always be feathering? If I'm at a dead stop, and I need to take off in one direction to get to the puck, I should tap tap tap my way down the ice?
Like in the Kessel clip, it would have been better if I acted like a 5 year old their first time off the wall, than expecting my guy to pivot and skate towards where the puck was going? Or on the clip with Malkin, I should just expect that if I want to move closer to the net quickly and do a hockey stop, if I don't do it one small stride at a time, I'm going to go floating against the direction of my skates uncontrollably?
In the EASHL clip, when I get the puck in a pile of people, I should be feathering out of there, not trying to skate forward as quickly as possible, the direction I'm facing? Instead I need to feather the LS so I don't spin a weird direction for no reason?
Your recommendation is I need to do something unnecessary and counter-intuitive, counter-productive, in order to make the engine not screw up, and that is now user-error?
I don't expect to be able to zip all over the ice like I'm controlling some physics destroying UFO. I expect there to be effects of momentum on my skater. I don't expect my guy to get stuck to a pivot, to spin for no reason, or to slide through the slot despite me telling him to stop.
So yes, when I'm facing forward, and then press forward full force, I do expect him to skate forward, not turn into a pile of bodies and turn the puck over. When my player is in the middle of a pivot/spin, and I point to a direction full force that have him continue the spin and then sprint after the puck, I expect him to do that, not get stuck in the pivot.
As for your interest in the strategy in that picture, you can ask the EA dev's about the AI. My human LW was out of position and I admit that, I complain about it all the time. But what the RD and the RW are doing in the center lane of the ice by the blue line, you can consult the numerous complaints about the terrible AI in this game.
Edit: I also want to add that what I'm doing on the controller works offline, it works on great connection games, and it works pretty well on not-great connection games. These were from games that didn't have much delay, but had a ton of "fat man lag". That is why I posted them. To show what lag in the game does to the skating engine. If it works when there isn't a connection issue, then it's not just user error.
EASHL clip, you can clearly see your guy going forward, but the defensive player knocks the puck off your stick, Im not sure what you expect ? And the defensive player bumps into you as he skates at your 90 degrees. Physics anyone ?
The Kessel clip - the player was in a pivoting animation when you switched to him, your controller (you) then tried to override this, thats why there was a delay and wrongfully so.
Let me explain, Your control went from 7 o'clock to 2 o'clock clockwise but in this instance, your controller should have gone from 7 o'clock to 2o'clock counterclockwise. THe TPS is factored with each degree of your controller, its not UP down LEFT right, it gives you a 360 degree control scheme. This why it is so important to adapt to the skating engine.
Its funny EA has given players more control, then they even realize to do with, and want it simpler. Go figure.
@sethamphetamines clips are all you need to know about this skating engine.
IMO, I see instances where the left stick is being held at 100% range at all times. Not sure how you expect to control a player with total control when you're instructing him to go full force? Yes, there are animation issues I see as well.. but I'm not convinced that these clips were taken while the user controlling the player was feathering the stick and/or being cognizant of the weight/momentum of the player.
I'm also interested to know more about this unique strategy
So you're saying the solution is I should always be feathering? If I'm at a dead stop, and I need to take off in one direction to get to the puck, I should tap tap tap my way down the ice?
Like in the Kessel clip, it would have been better if I acted like a 5 year old their first time off the wall, than expecting my guy to pivot and skate towards where the puck was going? Or on the clip with Malkin, I should just expect that if I want to move closer to the net quickly and do a hockey stop, if I don't do it one small stride at a time, I'm going to go floating against the direction of my skates uncontrollably?
In the EASHL clip, when I get the puck in a pile of people, I should be feathering out of there, not trying to skate forward as quickly as possible, the direction I'm facing? Instead I need to feather the LS so I don't spin a weird direction for no reason?
Your recommendation is I need to do something unnecessary and counter-intuitive, counter-productive, in order to make the engine not screw up, and that is now user-error?
I don't expect to be able to zip all over the ice like I'm controlling some physics destroying UFO. I expect there to be effects of momentum on my skater. I don't expect my guy to get stuck to a pivot, to spin for no reason, or to slide through the slot despite me telling him to stop.
So yes, when I'm facing forward, and then press forward full force, I do expect him to skate forward, not turn into a pile of bodies and turn the puck over. When my player is in the middle of a pivot/spin, and I point to a direction full force that have him continue the spin and then sprint after the puck, I expect him to do that, not get stuck in the pivot.
As for your interest in the strategy in that picture, you can ask the EA dev's about the AI. My human LW was out of position and I admit that, I complain about it all the time. But what the RD and the RW are doing in the center lane of the ice by the blue line, you can consult the numerous complaints about the terrible AI in this game.
Edit: I also want to add that what I'm doing on the controller works offline, it works on great connection games, and it works pretty well on not-great connection games. These were from games that didn't have much delay, but had a ton of "fat man lag". That is why I posted them. To show what lag in the game does to the skating engine. If it works when there isn't a connection issue, then it's not just user error.
EASHL clip, you can clearly see your guy going forward, but the defensive player knocks the puck off your stick, Im not sure what you expect ? And the defensive player bumps into you as he skates at your 90 degrees. Physics anyone ?
The Kessel clip - the player was in a pivoting animation when you switched to him, your controller (you) then tried to override this, thats why there was a delay and wrongfully so.
Let me explain, Your control went from 7 o'clock to 2 o'clock clockwise but in this instance, your controller should have gone from 7 o'clock to 2o'clock counterclockwise. THe TPS is factored with each degree of your controller, its not UP down LEFT right, it gives you a 360 degree control scheme. This why it is so important to adapt to the skating engine.
Its funny EA has given players more control, then they even realize to do with, and want it simpler. Go figure.
After this many years, its time to adapt.
Sorry Cogs, but you're wrong on both accounts. In the EASHL clip, my player, once gaining possession of the puck spins to his left for no reason, which dislodges the puck when I run into the guy on the other team.
In the Kessel clip, I was holding the stick at 2 o'clock for the pass. I let it go to neutral for a split second, then jammed it back to 2 o'clock once I realized it was kessel I had control of. Maybe the AI's virtual LS was pointing at 7 before I took control of him, but there is no way for me to be able to predict that and adapt instantaneously when I get auto-switched as soon as the pass is out.
When the computer makes your player do things you aren't telling them to do, that isn't more control, it's less.
I don't want it simpler, I want it to work. And where it works the least, is when there is lag involved. These clips were to demonstrate the weird things that happen with connection issues that aren't just input delay.
After playing Rocket League this past week I have realized what a great competitive online game is supposed to play like. No random junk, no input lag, no momentum, no artificial help.....it's just skill vs skill. I don't even miss hockey right now. This game is GREAT!
After playing Rocket League this past week I have realized what a great competitive online game is supposed to play like. No random junk, no input lag, no momentum, no artificial help.....it's just skill vs skill. I don't even miss hockey right now. This game is GREAT!
Great. Now go have fun with bumper cars while we play hockey.
After playing Rocket League this past week I have realized what a great competitive online game is supposed to play like. No random junk, no input lag, no momentum, no artificial help.....it's just skill vs skill. I don't even miss hockey right now. This game is GREAT!
Great. Now go have fun with bumper cars while we play hockey.
Don't hate because it's a much better competitive online game. 5500 people on the 3v3 west server at 3am on a weekday. Is there even that many people total who play NHL lmao???
I agree, what you said about nhl 17 being a "better" game THEN nhl 12, and that the way nhl 12 handled that made it feel like a better game is the point I've been trying to make. That's what people who defend the game now and say how bad 12 was don't realize, is the fact that we aren't saying the game itself was better THEN the game we have now, but that the game felt better THEN the one we have now.
Then
I don't know why you are capitalizing "THEN", but the correct word is "THAN". "Than" is used for making comparisons, "Then" is used to refer to a specific point in time.
After playing Rocket League this past week I have realized what a great competitive online game is supposed to play like. No random junk, no input lag, no momentum, no artificial help.....it's just skill vs skill. I don't even miss hockey right now. This game is GREAT!
Great. Now go have fun with bumper cars while we play hockey.
Don't hate because it's a much better competitive online game. 5500 people on the 3v3 west server at 3am on a weekday. Is there even that many people total who play NHL lmao???
After playing Rocket League this past week I have realized what a great competitive online game is supposed to play like. No random junk, no input lag, no momentum, no artificial help.....it's just skill vs skill. I don't even miss hockey right now. This game is GREAT!
Great. Now go have fun with bumper cars while we play hockey.
Don't hate because it's a much better competitive online game. 5500 people on the 3v3 west server at 3am on a weekday. Is there even that many people total who play NHL lmao???
cool, post on the rocket league forum
Been here since 08 kid, I'll be here until they make this game great again.
After playing Rocket League this past week I have realized what a great competitive online game is supposed to play like. No random junk, no input lag, no momentum, no artificial help.....it's just skill vs skill. I don't even miss hockey right now. This game is GREAT!
Great. Now go have fun with bumper cars while we play hockey.
Don't hate because it's a much better competitive online game. 5500 people on the 3v3 west server at 3am on a weekday. Is there even that many people total who play NHL lmao???
cool, post on the rocket league forum
Been here since 08 kid, I'll be here until they make this game great again.
After playing Rocket League this past week I have realized what a great competitive online game is supposed to play like. No random junk, no input lag, no momentum, no artificial help.....it's just skill vs skill. I don't even miss hockey right now. This game is GREAT!
Great. Now go have fun with bumper cars while we play hockey.
Don't hate because it's a much better competitive online game. 5500 people on the 3v3 west server at 3am on a weekday. Is there even that many people total who play NHL lmao???
Not hating. Just saying that if you're not having fun with a game and then find another that is fun, wouldn't it be logical to spend all your time playing that game and not the one you don't enjoy?
Replies
This isn't just delay. It's weird stuff that happens in games that have "fat man lag"
I'm holding up and to the right here, what would be about 2:15 on the hour hand. Kessel refuses to turn and get to where the puck is going. He gets stuck facing one direction while skating another. And no, I wasn't holding LT here.
Another example. I'm red here. I get the puck, hold up and right, and instead my guy spins to the bottom left, losing the puck, before proceeding up.
Another clip, again look at red (Malkin). From a dead stop, after kneeling, he somehow gets enough momentum to be completely out of control so that when I try to stop in the slot in front of the goalie, he slides all the way into the net picking up speed as I try to stop, going across his blades the direction of his skate blades. This is the floaty skating I talk about. It's impossible to control your player when it's like this. I apologize it's from so far away and without the control guides, this was taken live and since it was online, I didn't want to waste my pause.
Try to look closely and you'll see him moving perpendicular to where blades are pointing.
kory there is no defending this skating engine any longer. whether he is finessing his stick or not these oddities happen all of the time. the control is simply not there no matter how good one's thumbs are.
it's killing the game and the majority of the community. there are roughly 50 xbox guys who went to PS4 recently because the XBOX EASHL community is literally dead and some think the game plays better on the PS.
pro series is now dead on both consoles. you can blame the community, but the community has become toxic because the gameplay is toxic.
So you're saying the solution is I should always be feathering? If I'm at a dead stop, and I need to take off in one direction to get to the puck, I should tap tap tap my way down the ice?
Like in the Kessel clip, it would have been better if I acted like a 5 year old their first time off the wall, than expecting my guy to pivot and skate towards where the puck was going? Or on the clip with Malkin, I should just expect that if I want to move closer to the net quickly and do a hockey stop, if I don't do it one small stride at a time, I'm going to go floating against the direction of my skates uncontrollably?
In the EASHL clip, when I get the puck in a pile of people, I should be feathering out of there, not trying to skate forward as quickly as possible, the direction I'm facing? Instead I need to feather the LS so I don't spin a weird direction for no reason?
Your recommendation is I need to do something unnecessary and counter-intuitive, counter-productive, in order to make the engine not screw up, and that is now user-error?
I don't expect to be able to zip all over the ice like I'm controlling some physics destroying UFO. I expect there to be effects of momentum on my skater. I don't expect my guy to get stuck to a pivot, to spin for no reason, or to slide through the slot despite me telling him to stop.
So yes, when I'm facing forward, and then press forward full force, I do expect him to skate forward, not turn into a pile of bodies and turn the puck over. When my player is in the middle of a pivot/spin, and I point to a direction full force that have him continue the spin and then sprint after the puck, I expect him to do that, not get stuck in the pivot.
As for your interest in the strategy in that picture, you can ask the EA dev's about the AI. My human LW was out of position and I admit that, I complain about it all the time. But what the RD and the RW are doing in the center lane of the ice by the blue line, you can consult the numerous complaints about the terrible AI in this game.
Edit: I also want to add that what I'm doing on the controller works offline, it works on great connection games, and it works pretty well on not-great connection games. These were from games that didn't have much delay, but had a ton of "fat man lag". That is why I posted them. To show what lag in the game does to the skating engine. If it works when there isn't a connection issue, then it's not just user error.
EASHL clip, you can clearly see your guy going forward, but the defensive player knocks the puck off your stick, Im not sure what you expect ? And the defensive player bumps into you as he skates at your 90 degrees. Physics anyone ?
The Kessel clip - the player was in a pivoting animation when you switched to him, your controller (you) then tried to override this, thats why there was a delay and wrongfully so.
Let me explain, Your control went from 7 o'clock to 2 o'clock clockwise but in this instance, your controller should have gone from 7 o'clock to 2o'clock counterclockwise. THe TPS is factored with each degree of your controller, its not UP down LEFT right, it gives you a 360 degree control scheme. This why it is so important to adapt to the skating engine.
Its funny EA has given players more control, then they even realize to do with, and want it simpler. Go figure.
After this many years, its time to adapt.
Sorry Cogs, but you're wrong on both accounts. In the EASHL clip, my player, once gaining possession of the puck spins to his left for no reason, which dislodges the puck when I run into the guy on the other team.
In the Kessel clip, I was holding the stick at 2 o'clock for the pass. I let it go to neutral for a split second, then jammed it back to 2 o'clock once I realized it was kessel I had control of. Maybe the AI's virtual LS was pointing at 7 before I took control of him, but there is no way for me to be able to predict that and adapt instantaneously when I get auto-switched as soon as the pass is out.
When the computer makes your player do things you aren't telling them to do, that isn't more control, it's less.
I don't want it simpler, I want it to work. And where it works the least, is when there is lag involved. These clips were to demonstrate the weird things that happen with connection issues that aren't just input delay.
Great. Now go have fun with bumper cars while we play hockey.
Don't hate because it's a much better competitive online game. 5500 people on the 3v3 west server at 3am on a weekday. Is there even that many people total who play NHL lmao???
I don't know why you are capitalizing "THEN", but the correct word is "THAN". "Than" is used for making comparisons, "Then" is used to refer to a specific point in time.
cool, post on the rocket league forum
congrats
Not hating. Just saying that if you're not having fun with a game and then find another that is fun, wouldn't it be logical to spend all your time playing that game and not the one you don't enjoy?