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EA Dev, TPS needs to be better or else this game will never reach potential

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  • Pikesburgh wrote: »
    overall I feel like the skating is identical to real life.

    Minus the fact that you can't effectively and smoothly transition from a slower speed glide into a t-push and open your hips, or effectively move laterally and smoothly while facing the puck, or the 'old gen mechanic' that recenters your player after picking up a puck sometimes before you can control him (as described by a dev), or the herky jerkiness/random spins as evidenced by multiple clips in this thread, the skating is great, eh bud? ;)
  • Dixonyu
    675 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    Pikesburgh wrote: »
    TPS is perfect. I've had no issues with the skating, ever. It seems like a lot of people on here didn't play real hockey...

    When you're skating at full speed, you can't turn on a dime in real life depending on your skates. If you have the typical flat bottom to the blade, you won't get much turn. If you have the blades that are more curved, you can turn much sharper. This is one thing the NHL series should bring back. But ultimately, if you're at top end speed on 17, you can't turn well if you're STILL holding in the hustle button. If you LET OFF, and then turn, you turn much sharper. I also like the seemingly zero degree turns you can do at gliding, slow speeds. The back skating could use a little fine tuning, but overall I feel like the skating is identical to real life.

    The issue with your player skating in circles around the puck and not picking it up isn't a skating issue either, it's a puck pickup issue.

    Lol TPS is trash like vision control and this games logic ...

    https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=fB-KZxJwqrg

    That is how we should be able to turn and play defense ... That smooth transition doesn't exist in this game ... What I like most about this video and listen up Ben Ross , he stresses it many times number one rule of hockey, never turn your back to the play some thing that is very hard to do, and the AI logic tells them to turn their back to the play, and so does the skating mechanics and vision control...

    Vision control should have us always face the puck.. I hate playing people that abuse the boards, when they get in the corner by the net sometimes you can turn and face the play, sometimes you are stuck backwards... It's funny though the way this game mechanics are , you aren't punished for not looking at the play, which they should improve vision control then add player vision,if he can't see the play he can't make some magic ninja dalsim reach out for the puck and warp it to his stick ...
  • megadeth_600
    1437 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    Pikesburgh wrote: »
    TPS is perfect. I've had no issues with the skating, ever. It seems like a lot of people on here didn't play real hockey...

    When you're skating at full speed, you can't turn on a dime in real life depending on your skates. If you have the typical flat bottom to the blade, you won't get much turn. If you have the blades that are more curved, you can turn much sharper. This is one thing the NHL series should bring back. But ultimately, if you're at top end speed on 17, you can't turn well if you're STILL holding in the hustle button. If you LET OFF, and then turn, you turn much sharper. I also like the seemingly zero degree turns you can do at gliding, slow speeds. The back skating could use a little fine tuning, but overall I feel like the skating is identical to real life.

    The issue with your player skating in circles around the puck and not picking it up isn't a skating issue either, it's a puck pickup issue.

    Uh, I think people here grasp the concept of turning with momentum. It isn't even part of the debate or complaints.

    People are complaining about control, lack or proper vision control, facing the puck, intrusive animations, pivots and weird turning at SLOW speeds. So with that being said, thanks for the physics explanation at HIGH speeds sparky.
  • bump. this shouldn't leave the front page until fixed. way too much auto-skating, clunky pivoting and auto spins. it's been like this for far too many years.

    why did neither of the recent patches include any upgrades to the skating?

    @NHLDev
  • Not really TPS-related, but TPS does need to be fixed so defense don't have to suffer through this stuff.

    [yt]

    [yt]
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    As a side effect, puck carriers then had more coverage to retrieve pucks tight to their skates and kick back up with their skates when the puck was lost near them, etc. There wasn't anything added to slow offensive players down though.

    Wait, what are you talking about? In the clip below, the offensive player comes close to a complete stop (at the 0:17 mark) in order to pick up the puck. The user isn't telling him to do that -- he's pushing up on the LS the entire time. It's the game that slows him down in order to enable him to recover the puck:

    Similarly, here, the offensive player goes into a glide to pick up the puck. That's again not because the user is telling him to do it -- he's pushing up on the LS. That's the game putting him into a glide so that he can pick up the puck:

    If you didn't add that into the game, how did it get in there?

    After watching the clips the first time, I wasn't sure what you meant because of how you were also manually changing the speeds of the replays but when I looked back again I see what you mean in the first clip. That looks like a blend issue for sure where the turning pickup is modulating the speed too much and that is a valid issue for sure.

    In the legacy system a pickup will go into a constant speed when picking up the puck from where you were, so they don't slow down but they don't continue to accelerate until after they get the puck.

    In the new system, which includes some of the turning pickups in your clips, it recognizes the angle requested in the controller, realizes it can pickup the puck by turning through it to get to that angle rather than locking into a glide through the pickup straight and then turning after.

    The turn is going to be slower than accelerating straight through the puck and the pickup is going to match the speed it needs to get the puck in stride. Again, looking at your clip, the range the player is able to modulate in that clip either seems like it is too much or there is a bug there. It really could have been aggressive tuning by the animators in that case because of the claims people had that pickups weren't happening when they should. Something we can log and look into.

    I took your claim as meaning that in the skating system itself, we artificially stopped players from skating forwards and then played pickups which isn't the case but in the pickups themselves, there will be speed increases and decreases depending on if they are accelerating through, turning through, asking for an actual stopping pickup, etc.

    Breaking out of the zone (very common situation)

    jRvRrwH.png

    Black dot = the puck
    Black lines = passing lanes/options
    Green line = player input (my choice of planned movement)
    Red lines = the routes the 'seamless pickups' (I call it the autopilot) system chooses

    There is something horribly wrong with the 'seamless pickups' system, as it constantly keeps overriding the inputs my left thumb has given IF I let my player glide. Instead of gliding straight from blue line to blue line, CPU (sometimes, not always) takes over as I move up the ice and forces my player left or right depending on the situation. Sometimes it even thinks it's a good idea to do a 180° pivot and head back to our own zone. That isn't player control. The system is deciding, that the route I initially chose is not the ideal one to pickup the possibly incoming pass from the RD and chooses another one -- obstructing the right side of the rink, potentially blocking RW's (& RD's) skating lanes and potentially even intercepting the clear RD -> RW pass itself.

    Something like this might happen several times during one breakout. It almost feels like a strong wind trying to push me off my path.

    I'm playing center in EASHL and when our team is doing a basic breakout (similar to the image), I obviously want to keep my lane in the middle and give a passing option for RD. I've gone through the same routine situations countless times over and over again like everyone else has. It's really bothersome that in NHL 17 (and in NHL 16), the 'seamless pickups' logic (and/or AI logic) takes over and what you'd think is a routine situation evolves into something unexpected - in a way that can't be expected. It defies reason and logic while taking away the control from the user.

    This forced me to learn to not let my player glide when I'm expecting a pass during a breakout. I had to learn to use the left analog stick in a way that I don't move the stick all the way to sides - only pressing the stick so little that I barely skate but I'm not gliding. In my experience, my player only goes full zombie (autopilot) when I'm not touching the left analog stick at all.

    In my opinion this is almost a game breaking issue. Add this problem to issues with TPS and the game becomes a battle against the controller and my player feels like a boat in a storm.


  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Moisala wrote: »



    I agree with you. I was able to reproduce this issue with good success as well:

    Here is the original thread with examples of how I was able to do so.

    Great job KoryDub! I missed that a topic. This is extremely important important issue and closely tied to the skating engine. Going to move my post there, although it's brings nothing new to the table.
  • ptTuAPJ.png

    One of the most important things EA can do for this game is build into the skating engine the ability to face like the player in this picture and move laterally along the plane shown by the arrows in smooth non animation locked movements. Also, allowing us to do it in a much more controlled manner than is currently possible.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    So, is there any talk about TPS being improved?
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    So, is there any talk about TPS being improved?

    It's always "being improved", but it's not exactly something that can be slapped on the list of new features for this game. Won't exactly entice players to get this game like "NEW 3 vs. 3 Arcade Mode!!"

    I just hope that the balance between offensive players with the puck and defensive players without the puck gets tightened up a bit. Would be nice to see Defensemen (and Goalies) be able to keep up with Attackers who have the puck.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1291 posts Member
    I guess the issue with the skating engine is that some types of movement are automated and too slow (like little lateral moves) in comparison with the overall speed of the game. This doesn't affect offence so much as they can mostly move forward and hustle all day long - it's defence who feels the limitations worst. You need to have delicate handle on moving around the blueline, skating backwards and laterally, and changing directions, and currently it's anything but delicate. The automated shuffles take too long timewise and spacewise on ice, so by the time you reach for the loose puck, the offence is there to poke it from you. Typical in situations like face offs.

    But of course, in online play this is made so much worse by lag, you're slower and your input doesn't even always register, or your guy just 'decides' to rush *over there*, if you don't keep him in tight control. Seriously, yesterday I had a game where as soon as I released my player to free glide, he just rushed to the left for no good reason. EA, I want to keep full control on my player, stop this automated bull, please.

    In past days with the number of players dropping down, we've had a couple of games with crazy good connection it seemed (not that the ping was any different), the player moved almost *too* fast, because you're just not used to that. Then it's back to regular sluggish game play. It's annoying to see that this game would be so much better with decent online connection all the time. If that is not fixed, then I am afraid we're never gonna see the full potential of this game.


  • Good to see that EA clearly listened to us here. Maybe we'll have another 35 pages to talk about it this year.
  • NickKefz
    67 posts Member
    edited July 2017
    Its sad that we have a 35 page thread full of facts and proof and hardcore nhlers complaining about how the skating is but they still have not drastically tried to change it, not even with a good tuner update. I mean what could hurt at this point, EAs ego of how THEY want the game to play? Its time for a change people will still play and give feedback just try it for crying out loud. EASHL 6s is a clusterf*ck and worse than last years game. They add these new features in without fixing or adjusting what needs to be done, its just a mess of a game online.
  • Its sad that we have a 35 page thread full of facts and proof and hardcore nhlers complaining about how the skating is but they still have not drastically tried to change it, not even with a good tuner update. I mean what could hurt at this point, EAs ego of how THEY want the game to play? Its time for a change people will still play and give feedback just try it for crying out loud. EASHL 6s is a clusterf*ck and worse than last years game. They add these new features in without fixing or adjusting what needs to be done, its just a mess of a game online.


    If you look its not all facts, just watch the clips that get posted, from the past 10 pages (I just did). A lot of times its player controller inputs that cause them to move in a direction they dont wanna move.



    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • Workin_OT
    469 posts Member
    edited August 2017
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    Its sad that we have a 35 page thread full of facts and proof and hardcore nhlers complaining about how the skating is but they still have not drastically tried to change it, not even with a good tuner update. I mean what could hurt at this point, EAs ego of how THEY want the game to play? Its time for a change people will still play and give feedback just try it for crying out loud. EASHL 6s is a clusterf*ck and worse than last years game. They add these new features in without fixing or adjusting what needs to be done, its just a mess of a game online.


    If you look its not all facts, just watch the clips that get posted, from the past 10 pages (I just did). A lot of times its player controller inputs that cause them to move in a direction they dont wanna move.



    That's the whole point of this thread.

    Movement controls and how they 'feel' is the most important aspect to any video game. Skating in this game 'feels' anything but good. It is delayed, clunky, etc.

    Skating in hockey is something that is second nature. You aren't out on the ice constantly thinking about how you are moving you feet. You just do it. The same thing can't be said about this game. The clunkiness in the skating forces you to spend way too much effort trying to face your player the right way, stand your ground in front of the net, trying to avoid spins, etc.

    Look at rocket league. The base movement is great. Everyone can drive their car around the arena and do e brake spins. It's the advanced things that separate the players and create the huge skill gap.

    NHL since new gen has been complete garbage, simply because of the base movement. Everyone should be able to skate around the ice and face their player the correct way. This should pretty much be second nature and effortless, and it should 'feel' responsive, smooth, etc. It is anything but this, and that is what is wrong with this game. Fix that one thing and this game will be good again.

    Skating feels clunky and takes way too much effort. The things that separate the players should be things like: deking, saucer passes, passing into space, reading plays, slowing the game down, shooting. NHL 18 is starting to create gaps in some of these things between players but as long as the base movement (skating) is still a mess the game will never be a hit with their hardcore audience.
  • TPS is unbearable running at just the slightest amount of lag in 18. It's barely playable with 10 or less MS but at this speed in the beta (25 MS at least) I'm getting beat every play while being conservative. The puck carrier still having better acceleration (especially laterally, coincidentally this is a defenseman's weak point in this game) than non-puck carriers is baffling. That's so opposite to reality it's not even funny. Worse, it can be fixed with the slider that is ALREADY AVAILABLE TO THE USER OFFLINE.

    There is no way in hell this game isn't catered to offense. No way. Some of these issues that can be fixed so easily (the proof is in the pudding, offline with sliders this game is great) proves that there is an offensive bias to this franchise.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    Not sure what EA is waiting for, TPS/vision control/input delay-lag have been top issues/complaints about this game since NHL13... for the last 5 to 6 years!! Why won't EA fix the biggest issues/complaints?????

    EA, enough his enough, TPS sounds great but it just doesn't work, especially with any kind of latency online, also vision control is just as bad, bring back classic vision control that worked perfectly, why did you even remove something that worked perfect?
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Not sure what EA is waiting for, TPS/vision control/input delay-lag have been top issues/complaints about this game since NHL13... for the last 5 to 6 years!! Why won't EA fix the biggest issues/complaints?????

    EA, enough his enough, TPS sounds great but it just doesn't work, especially with any kind of latency online, also vision control is just as bad, bring back classic vision control that worked perfectly, why did you even remove something that worked perfect?

    It wasn't perfect, which is why people asked for a change. The problem isn't TPS, but the settings it's being played under. You can't have real world physics and real world animations, then make the game run at Ludicrous Speed and expect things will be hunky-dory. People can adapt to lag if they are given time to adapt/react.

    But people can't react in a game where they are limited to move in real time, while the game is moving in accelerated time.
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