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Is this NHL series on the verge of dying?

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  • The game is simply unenjoyable for any lengthy amount of time. It's only manageable in small doses now.

    I agree with this completely, along with the majority of this thread and others like it.

    NHL has always been my main game. Pre-TPS I would play it for hours every single day and had little desire to play anything else. Post-TPS, I get so disgusted (sorry, I know that's a strong word, but I'm just being completely honest), that it's not uncommon for me to play 1 game, win it, and then just turn it off.. and not touch it again for 4+ days =\. I say this as someone who doesn't really have much else to play either, so it's not like I'm ignoring NHL in favor of some other major title that's new and exciting.

    I'm glad that even people who used to just say, "git gud scrub, u must be arcade-loving noobs lmao, the game is fine, ur just bad" are now finally seeing the light.

    I applaud the thought behind TPS, and the vision for it and everything it was supposed to be. The idea behind it was the right one, and I appreciate all of the hard work that went into it and refining it. Unfortunately, it just didn't pan out, even with 5 years of refining. The game desperately needs a new engine; tweaking sliders is not going to change the fundamental core problems that have plagued the game since its introduction - problems that have been killing the gameplay and fun-factor for five years running now.

  • I'm only talking about EASHL of course because it's the only part of the game I play.



    We were talking more specifically about online vs.

    I don't play hut , but I'm sure the other dude I was in agreement with does and surely it goes on in there too.



  • Really?! After all these years of the forwards having the advantage (and they still do), the dman finally get some love and some of you are complaining?!

    Dman have had to deal with forwards all these years that can dipsy doodle with their auto dekes (talking about lack of skill), with their forcefield bubble holding out and/or ragging/dragging the puck all while having much better skating agility. Meanwhile the dman have hardly any tools to fully combat them.

    Dman have had to deal with the blame from the forwards that cause a lot of the offensive zone turnovers when they try to force their way into the zone or force cross creases.

    Dman have had to put up with several years of forwards hardly ever passing back to the point.

    Now more players are trying to play a more realistic cycling game (yes that includes the points/dman) for one timers, including D to D one timers. Also one of the main jobs of a dman in the offensive zone is to just get the puck on the net for a deflection and/or rebound etc...

    You want realism? In the NHL there are now more goals originating from the dman/points/deflections/tips/rebounds/garbage goals then the dipsy doodle dekes down low one on one against dman.

    As a goalie, I can stop the majority of shots from the dman/points but when I don't, I blame the FORWARDS for not covering their points/dman and that also applies to when I'm playing D.

    But yeah, lets blame and lessen the ability of the dman finally getting some love/attention/action/whatever because they now have the ability to score from their points. (rolleyes)

    I'm only talking about EASHL of course because it's the only part of the game I play.



    Roll ur eyes all u want, u cant d up the weak stuff all day by urself... which at this rate wont be very long from now lol.
  • The way he's bragging about his defense, he better be a div 1 guy with at least a 3/1 record. If not hes just some bummy guy from 09-12 who was below 500 because he didnt know how to play d and needed handicaps. I had zero problem shutting guys down during those years. I cant be at the point (on both sides), at the high slot, at the front of the net and at the corner of the net to prevent all these cheesy goals from happening. You have to rely on ai or a goalie to make the easy 40' save and thats not a good thing this year. Yet i still semi manage but its boring, stupid and not fun.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    I've touched up on this in another thread: the problem with this series is that people are starting to be FED UP with the yearly updates that don't really amount to a full game 60$ price tag. It has nothing to do with "DA GLORY YEARS" or when "TPS" came along. In fact the NHL series enjoyed some of it's best years in sales when TPS came along and up until last year the game usually garned at least a million units in sales.

    Even NHL 15 Next-Gen (that piece of Hu'tegh veQ ) had more sales than NHL 17.

    That said, you could easily find over 100 users in Online Shootout last year at all times, and the goaltending in NHL 16 was nothing less than abysmal by comparision.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I've touched up on this in another thread: the problem with this series is that people are starting to be FED UP with the yearly updates that don't really amount to a full game 60$ price tag. It has nothing to do with "DA GLORY YEARS" or when "TPS" came along. In fact the NHL series enjoyed some of it's best years in sales when TPS came along and up until last year the game usually garned at least a million units in sales.

    Even NHL 15 Next-Gen (that piece of Hu'tegh veQ ) had more sales than NHL 17.

    That said, you could easily find over 100 users in Online Shootout last year at all times, and the goaltending in NHL 16 was nothing less than abysmal by comparision.

    I'll disagree with that, the game was still riding the high from the 09-12 days and people were just hoping it would get better each year (including me). It is now just getting to the point where people are fed up with a bad game, it is not because there are just small updates every year.

    This is a poorly made game, plain and simple, it controls horribly and has some of the worst servers for online play of any game, you don't keep/make new fans with that formula.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Assisted_6 wrote: »

    Exactly. Like I said most people bought it because of those fun years and even when TPS was introduced and it started going downhill people, including myself, buy it each year hoping it will be better than the last year, and it's just gone too long now without any real fixes or changes to the things people find frustrating.

    While the sales may still be there, there's no doubt that people are dropping the game earlier and earlier after each release due to frustration and just plain not having fun playing it. It's only a matter of time until people stop buying it all together cause they can't justify spending $70- $100 just to HOPE the game is finally the one we want

    You should have taken advantage of the Beta this year. It was a good opportunity to test the game out before buying and also allowed us to hear about issues that arose when in many more hands. We made a bunch of core improvements to skating based on what we heard during 16 but we didn't rewrite our skating engine, nor did we lead anyone to believe we had.

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Assisted_6 wrote: »

    Exactly. Like I said most people bought it because of those fun years and even when TPS was introduced and it started going downhill people, including myself, buy it each year hoping it will be better than the last year, and it's just gone too long now without any real fixes or changes to the things people find frustrating.

    While the sales may still be there, there's no doubt that people are dropping the game earlier and earlier after each release due to frustration and just plain not having fun playing it. It's only a matter of time until people stop buying it all together cause they can't justify spending $70- $100 just to HOPE the game is finally the one we want

    You should have taken advantage of the Beta this year. It was a good opportunity to test the game out before buying and also allowed us to hear about issues that arose when in many more hands. We made a bunch of core improvements to skating based on what we heard during 16 but we didn't rewrite our skating engine, nor did we lead anyone to believe we had.

    One of the gamechangers actually alluded to the fact that the skating was similar over the summer. After hearing that and playing the beta, that was all our team needed to hold off on buying the game. We're just not interested until some drastic changes are made to the way this game controls.

    The idea of re-releasing one of the older games (09-12) was brought up before. If this is the route the game is going to keep taking, releasing one of the older versions again would be a decent move until the current game hits whatever vision it is going for.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I've touched up on this in another thread: the problem with this series is that people are starting to be FED UP with the yearly updates that don't really amount to a full game 60$ price tag. It has nothing to do with "DA GLORY YEARS" or when "TPS" came along. In fact the NHL series enjoyed some of it's best years in sales when TPS came along and up until last year the game usually garned at least a million units in sales.

    Well, just speaking for myself, it has everything to do with "da glory years" and when "TPS" came along, since TPS is what destroyed the series. Knowing TPS will be in 18 already makes it an automatic no-buy for me. 17 was the final straw.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    .
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    I did play the beta and like many others will confirm both nhl 16 and nhl 17s beta played way different than the games release. Whether that's more server load which causes more delay or funky issues in game once the full release happens, or whether it's last minute tuning you guys did I don't know. But the beta is definitely not the way to judge how the game is at release because both years now I've felt so smooth during the beta just for it to be unplayable after release, all the while the game telling me I'm at 14 MS

    You were saying there were no fixes to the things people find frustrating and that the game isn't fun to play.

    Was the Beta fun for you to play and had fixed frustrations you had but you feel those have returned after full release? Or you saw all those same things in the Beta and hoped it would all change by release?

  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    The beta still had its frustrations don't get me wrong but I never felt like I was driving a cargo jet around the ice rink so it made it feel amazing since I was comparing it to nhl 16s horrible delay. The fact I thought I was going to get a smooth connection at release is the reason I bought it and was excited for it. I just don't understand how during the beta I was 14 MS, smooth as can be, then 14 ms at release and my guy has 0 agility and handles like a bus.

    As far as poke checking, stick checking, skill stick etc felt way better in the beta as well. Again, I don't know if you guys tuned it, or if it is just having more players online causing it to be more connection based on defensive abilities not connecting as well.

    Very interesting to hear this. How the game plays online is obviously a big part of the overall experience but since I am responsible for core gameplay, I take a lot of this feedback as how people feel about the core mechanics themselves. And yes, I know things within the core mechanics need to improve as well but if you enjoyed the Beta more, it feels like the mechanics are more in the ballpark and that it is the online experience that is hindering things the most (as least for you).

    We didn't change anything from the Beta until now that would drastically impact the things you are mentioning. If anything they would be more responsive and defense would have been even stronger.

    Did you feel this drastic change right on release day? I am wondering if part of what made it worse was moving up the ranks and playing more teams/players that live further away from you.

    I am also curious about the 14ms in both cases issue and have been talking to our online team about how the connection of someone else to the server can impact how the game feels for you.

    Thanks for the info.


  • I agree with you @assisted

    The beta for me was unbelievably smooth.

    Ever since launch. The consistent smoothness I felt during beta has now dissipated.

    After the 1St period of an EASHL game I try and guess my connection quality. I then can check my connection via the menu before 2nd period starts . Also, I would like to add in the drop-in menu before games go live , it ALWAYS shows green bars. Anyway-- games where I swear I must have like 40ms lag or whatever, it's actually only 12 lol.

    Also , 30ms or 40ms lag in EASHL is a HUGE burden. It's terrible.

    I play online vs quite a bit and the green bars are much more accurate in terms of connection quality and are reliable. Needless to say I pay attention to that.

    Online vs feels great with my green bars and low ping . If EASHL can garner that same buttery smooth feeling , boy oh boy, would significantly make me happier .

    I am a hardcore player and play about 5-7 games everyday. Some days more. Some days less .
  • SteelCitySnipr66
    42 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    I played both betas and was uninspired by what i saw but didnt care to post anything because the direction you are going with the game clearly clashes with mine. The excitement and kool aid everyone drinks in august over a new game drowns out my realistic views of it and theyre ignored. I cannot be really heard until around now when the kool aid has soured and the excitement is gone.

    The game has largely stayed the same from the beta, its just that peoples rose colored glasses have fell off by now and they see it for what it really is... a below average hockey game with average cartoon graphics with crap lighting, horrendous inconsistant goalies, glitch goals galore, boring gameplay that lacks skill and precision, same ol' boring game modes, no innovation in 8 years, same ol boring hut but with more ridiculous synergies that allow centers to play d better than a true d man, no unique player styles and a terrible skating engine. In so many ways its a major step back from 09-12. Skill stick was better, skating was precise, hut was better and salary caps were cool, goalies albeit were bad were at least consistant on easy shots. The game was just more fun. Its sad how you can get worse in 8 years.

    I wasnt even going to buy this years but i had a best buy gift card and needed kill time until fifa 17. I wont be making that mistake again, i must be thoroughly impressed by nhl 18's beta or a patch in 17 for me to even consider looking at it. I'm a hair away from junking this series i've supported for over 20 yrs permanently. Pretty sad too because its been the series i've supported the most through the best and worst years. These years remind me of 00-03 and 05... 04 was the exception.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    since I am responsible for core gameplay

    Here is a core gameplay complaint I've had for years. I'll state this vaguely and then try to give specific examples.

    This game does not reward good plays. It does favor bad plays. This should be your number one goal to fix at all costs, even at the expense of realism.

    Defensive Examples
    It's easier to have success defending the rush not backskating and staying square to the puck carrier, but instead skating next two, in front of (right in front of) the puck carrier, or even skating behind the puck carrier, in all situations with you facing your own net. There are less tripping penalties, it seems, better results from pucks or the stick hitting legs/skates, and more control/speed.

    Things to change:
    There should never be tripping penalties when you are facing the puck carrier and backskating.

    Defenders need a bigger window for pokechecks to be effective. By this, I mean I shouldn't miss a poke check if the puck is 3 inches in front of my stick. As it is now, the puck needs to be exactly like a 16 or so inches in front of me. If it's closer, your player just misses the puck completely.

    Goalie Examples
    One timers are hard enough to setup onetimers in this game. Goalies shouldn't be so good at stopping them. Conversely, entering the zone and firing any type of shot immediately, slapper, wrister within 2 feet of the blueline should never go in. I feel like I've lost many games over the years where I am wide open for one timers all game and getting stonewalled, and 1 of the 3 shots my opponent takes all game is like that and it goes in.

    Another example this time specific to human goalies is some of the reaction saves, particularly when a human goalie is sitting on the goaline. Too many times (for years) I've seen a human goalie out of position, leaving half the net open, yet can snag a puck with his glove no problem, even if his head is behind a wall of 3 players. Meanwhile, you can be challenging out on top of your crease, perfectly square and in position and still give up a goal.

    Also, as an aside, I'm tired of getting scored on because my goalie (human or AI) fails to cover a puck that is calmly laying in front of him. Puck covers should be more effective. This includes times when the goalie is sitting on the puck, but the game doesn't recognize it, and the goalie is unable to do anything to stop the play.

    The top priority needs to be balance and reward. I just don't get that feeling anymore. It seems to be more about luck, RNG, connection and exploits rather than skill, hockey knowledge, or teamwork.

    NHLDev wrote: »
    I ... have been talking to our online team about how the connection of someone else to the server can impact how the game feels for you.

    It could be the connection quality of someone else. It could be the servers themselves, net code, whatever. I hope you guys aren't limiting yourselves to that one possibility because that sounds like looking for an excuse that you can't do anything about than finding a solution you can do something with.

    It seems like most west coast players have complaints about lag than east coast players. Might be a good place to start looking for causes?

    Would it be possible to get one of the network guys on here for an AMA? Announce it a couple days in advance, take questions in advance, something like that? On the old forums, I started a thread to try and collect as many online questions as the community could come up with, and they were never answered. It would be great to get that information into the hands of the community with definitive answers from the guys who make the game.


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