Yeah, agree.
The problem for me personally is that from NHL 13 the game improvements are unbelievable slow.
If there's not graphic update (mainly just in resolution anyway) and puck physics (which I appreciate most) and awesome sliders this year, the game is just basically the same.
How is that possible?
Same gameplay mechanics, same rough presentation. Yes same goalies (ai, can't speak about human controlled)
So the answer is, there is not enough people working on the game for AAA title. Cool, but then the price needs to reflect that.
No surprise people feels cheated and frustrated.
I would rather go the other way tho= give the producers more programmers, animators, engineers, so they can work on the game.
You see Ben is here whole days, nights, weekends. He's on our GC chat with other producers basically 247, talking about the ideas and feedback from the forums. But with given resources, don't expect miracles
I agree that there's been too little improvement, and what improvement there has been is too erratic. But one of the problems is that the dev team has continued to introduce new features into the game even when they clearly weren't ready for prime time. We had 12-person collisions in NHL 15, but because the AI coding was so bad, the result was that you had AI players committing interference penalties all over the ice (without them being called), and slamming into goalies constantly. They tried to make weight, etc., have a bigger impact on skating in the new-gen game, but again this wasn't ready for release, which meant that all game long in NHL 15 AI players were pivoting the wrong way, and turning their backs on the play. (They still do this today, incredibly, but it was much much worse in NHL 15).
Last year was the same story with seamless puck pickups -- a feature that just didn't work the way it was supposed to, and just left users more frustrated than anything else. (It didn't help that nowhere did EA do anything to explain how to take best advantage of the new feature.) And this year we have net battles, which are fine, but in 1v1 games often translate to the AI just holding the offensive player in the slot.
And the whole while they've been investing time and resources in these new features, they've made only small improvements (if that) to the game's fundamentals: skating, physics (which remain ridiculously inconsistent), and AI (which has actually gotten worse this year).
I'd be much happier if they did nothing for NHL 18 except make sure those fundamentals work the way they should.
Everyone need to settle down on 2k making another NHL game didn't work out so well and Yes I played them to and yes some modes had more depth but if you want hockey simulation play east side hockey manager it blows them out of the water if you want a video game you actually play EA has always been better. If 2k was actually as good as you remember then guess what game would be here now.
Hockey is a fast game compared to other sports games. Combine that with the lousy online platform that's PSN and the bad hardware inside the PS4 and you've got a recipe for a poor experience. The speed of the game accentuates all the issues with consoles and lag. The controls need to take this into consideration but with TPS the experience has become less than fun.
A video game shouldn't make 95% of the players with long time experience look like they just started playing video games yesterday. The controls need to be rethought, specifically in regards to skating. Stops and pivots too easily turn into unwanted movement. Players need to be able to anchor themselves to a spot, so that they can hold their ground and square up to the play easily, but also to resist being bumped out of position by incidental contact.
I agree that there's been too little improvement, and what improvement there has been is too erratic. But one of the problems is that the dev team has continued to introduce new features into the game even when they clearly weren't ready for prime time. We had 12-person collisions in NHL 15, but because the AI coding was so bad, the result was that you had AI players committing interference penalties all over the ice (without them being called), and slamming into goalies constantly. They tried to make weight, etc., have a bigger impact on skating in the new-gen game, but again this wasn't ready for release, which meant that all game long in NHL 15 AI players were pivoting the wrong way, and turning their backs on the play. (They still do this today, incredibly, but it was much much worse in NHL 15).
Last year was the same story with seamless puck pickups -- a feature that just didn't work the way it was supposed to, and just left users more frustrated than anything else. (It didn't help that nowhere did EA do anything to explain how to take best advantage of the new feature.) And this year we have net battles, which are fine, but in 1v1 games often translate to the AI just holding the offensive player in the slot.
And the whole while they've been investing time and resources in these new features, they've made only small improvements (if that) to the game's fundamentals: skating, physics (which remain ridiculously inconsistent), and AI (which has actually gotten worse this year).
I'd be much happier if they did nothing for NHL 18 except make sure those fundamentals work the way they should.
Well said and I completely agree. The 'improvements' each year haven't done anything to improve the game. They all sounded good until you saw them in action where they just aren't working well. Seamless puck pickups being the glaring example of something that was introduced broken and remains broken to this day. All of the other 'improvements' can basically all be thrown into that same basket.
People were jumping down my throat last year when I said things weren't being fixed. I still don't see one thing introduced to the gameplay since PS4/XBox One that has really made this game any better to play. All we have is what feels like an inconsistent engine filled with inconsistent features.
You hit the nail on the head... my guess like yours, is they just don't get the staff their other games do. Now, I'm not going to say that should be a crutch.. heck, I doubt 2k had a huge staff for hockey, but it's definitely a factor on why we are not seeing huge additions/improvements.
I do think, offline/franchise mode saw a nice bump this year though, I believe it's much better than any previous version and the presentation did step it up a bit as well.
It's too bad though, because hockey is the greatest sport on earth.
The reason nhl 13 sales went up from nhl 12 was because nhl 12 was a fun game, obviously people are going to buy 13. Then when they realized the step back 13 was, you can see that 14s sales dropped. Then go to nhl 15, myself like I'm sure many others bought the game on both last gen, and current gen so there was probably many sales just from that, as well as the fact it was the first release on ps4/xbone and people wanted to try it. Then 16 and 17 come out and it's dropping even more now. People's patience is gone, this franchise won't be around much longer unless big changes are made
Actually, the game was already on a steady rise thanks in large parts, to the 2K hockey franchise leaving the console market the prior year. If you wanted to play hockey, only EA had a game available to play. And you can be sure that many in the 2K community (myself included) finally made the plunge and entered "the Dark Side".
But look at the sales from NHL 13 to NHL 16. They don't fluctuate much. Oh sure, there's about a 100K difference in sales from year to year, but that's not really enough to warrant saying "the user base declined tremendously" from years like 09 and 12. I'd say the user base has for the most part stayed basically the same over the years. New people come in and old users leave. That's the nature within the cycle of a game series.
You could say that the more "hardcore" elements have abandoned the game now that it has evolved past the "twitch" game it once was. But then that would hardly make them "hardcore" at all now would it? Someone who's hardcore would stick through it, because at the core, all they want is to play hockey. I stuck through the years of **** arcade game-style hockey and watched as this series evolved into something that more closely resembles what 2K Hockey brought to the table. Is it perfect? Of course not. But the direction this series is taking is a good one: NHL 07 to NHL 14 were almost largely the same game. NHL 15 to NHL 17 the game has wildly changed at every step not only in game features but in game mechanics as well, and we're seeing a much more evolved product in just 2 years than we ever did in the 7 years of last-gen NHL titles. And I think that more than anything will ensure that this series sticks around for a while longer still.
Remmember wheb they would make games, then you buy, then play. No add ons or packs to rob you with. Just stop paying for all the extra ****. The game makers would adapt. The video game industry will not go away.
Come to think of it, has anyone seen a NHL 17 commercial on TV? I remember NHL 16 had a boat load of TV ads pumping the game. I can only think of the World Cup of Hockey having board ADs for NHL 17.
Come to think of it, has anyone seen a NHL 17 commercial on TV? I remember NHL 16 had a boat load of TV ads pumping the game. I can only think of the World Cup of Hockey having board ADs for NHL 17.
I was thinking this the other day too, but quickly realized that I'm a recent convert from traditional cable TV to just streaming services. GameCenter Live doesn't show any commercials.
So, I'm not so sure if it's that the NHL series is no longer being marketed. I think EA is taking a forward thinking approach to how to market things in other ways due to traditional TV seemingly dying.
Yes, you're right, they're doing more social media advertising. Last year they had commercials with Irish rock music if I recall.
Come to think of it, has anyone seen a NHL 17 commercial on TV? I remember NHL 16 had a boat load of TV ads pumping the game. I can only think of the World Cup of Hockey having board ADs for NHL 17.
They do air commercials for NHL 17 on Sportsnet and before HNIC
And yes, I've preached this for years. If you want changes to a game, really the only thing consumers can do is speak with their wallets. If game sales were down, consumer returns are up, and the micro-transactions via HuT were minimized than EA would either have to overhaul their game engine (again) or stop making new titles. I'm good with either at this point.
I used to buy some packs once and while, maybe spent a few hundred on them over the years but I haven't spent a dime this year. Morever, I bought a second-hand copy NHL 17 three weeks after it was released for $49.99. That seemed like a good price for this game. There are aspects of this game I still do enjoy but it's no where near what it used to be.
You really think if EA wasn't in the picture that another company wouldn't swoop in immediately to start making a new one?
I dont actually. Do you ? Honestly? It would be a difficult sell to the executives. How do you pitch a sports game when the company who had a monopoly on it failed to make any money.
How did this series fail to make money... it wouldn't still be making the game if it didn't make a profit. The problem is they aren't delivering on a fun game or listening to what the community wants so it's falling apart. Look at this series 5+ years ago, it's Esports worthy as a game if you get the right dev team
Do pay attention 007... I thought we were discussing a fictional universe where the NHL franchise imploded due to lack of financial viability.
"I think this year will turn things around as there's enough of a solid foundation for them to build on. As long as they don't mess it up, I think the next coming years the game will do better again."
This game will only improve if EA gets rid of TPS and gives us back classic vision control.
"I think this year will turn things around as there's enough of a solid foundation for them to build on. As long as they don't mess it up, I think the next coming years the game will do better again."
This game will only improve if EA gets rid of TPS and gives us back classic vision control.
Thankfully things are not left up to people like you. This series needs to move forward, not backwards. If you want your "glory years" game back, pop NHL 12 back into your Xbox 360 or PS3 and relive them.
I still have all my old games and my console. The day I start to get nostalgic, I'll probably do it myself. But I'm not one to dwell on the past. I tend to want to move ahead and look to the future.
"I tend to want to move ahead and look to the future."
Since NHL 13 what have we had to look forward to in the future? NHL 13 bad, nhl 14 bad, nhl 15 disaster, nhl 16 bad, nhl 17 bad. And you say lets stay on the current path? Wow.
The glory days were that for a reason, the game was a blast, it was popular, it had a cult following, it just worked! You cannot say that about the tame since NHL 13, since TPS and removal of classic vision control.
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#makenhlsillyagain
I agree that there's been too little improvement, and what improvement there has been is too erratic. But one of the problems is that the dev team has continued to introduce new features into the game even when they clearly weren't ready for prime time. We had 12-person collisions in NHL 15, but because the AI coding was so bad, the result was that you had AI players committing interference penalties all over the ice (without them being called), and slamming into goalies constantly. They tried to make weight, etc., have a bigger impact on skating in the new-gen game, but again this wasn't ready for release, which meant that all game long in NHL 15 AI players were pivoting the wrong way, and turning their backs on the play. (They still do this today, incredibly, but it was much much worse in NHL 15).
Last year was the same story with seamless puck pickups -- a feature that just didn't work the way it was supposed to, and just left users more frustrated than anything else. (It didn't help that nowhere did EA do anything to explain how to take best advantage of the new feature.) And this year we have net battles, which are fine, but in 1v1 games often translate to the AI just holding the offensive player in the slot.
And the whole while they've been investing time and resources in these new features, they've made only small improvements (if that) to the game's fundamentals: skating, physics (which remain ridiculously inconsistent), and AI (which has actually gotten worse this year).
I'd be much happier if they did nothing for NHL 18 except make sure those fundamentals work the way they should.
Yeah and look at the other thread, now people asking for another game mode.
So yes, I don't agree with that.
From when sales reflects quality?
That's like saying Bieber is better singer, musician or performer, than I don't know.. anybody basically
A video game shouldn't make 95% of the players with long time experience look like they just started playing video games yesterday. The controls need to be rethought, specifically in regards to skating. Stops and pivots too easily turn into unwanted movement. Players need to be able to anchor themselves to a spot, so that they can hold their ground and square up to the play easily, but also to resist being bumped out of position by incidental contact.
Club : Midnight Express
Well said and I completely agree. The 'improvements' each year haven't done anything to improve the game. They all sounded good until you saw them in action where they just aren't working well. Seamless puck pickups being the glaring example of something that was introduced broken and remains broken to this day. All of the other 'improvements' can basically all be thrown into that same basket.
People were jumping down my throat last year when I said things weren't being fixed. I still don't see one thing introduced to the gameplay since PS4/XBox One that has really made this game any better to play. All we have is what feels like an inconsistent engine filled with inconsistent features.
I do think, offline/franchise mode saw a nice bump this year though, I believe it's much better than any previous version and the presentation did step it up a bit as well.
It's too bad though, because hockey is the greatest sport on earth.
Actually, the game was already on a steady rise thanks in large parts, to the 2K hockey franchise leaving the console market the prior year. If you wanted to play hockey, only EA had a game available to play. And you can be sure that many in the 2K community (myself included) finally made the plunge and entered "the Dark Side".
But look at the sales from NHL 13 to NHL 16. They don't fluctuate much. Oh sure, there's about a 100K difference in sales from year to year, but that's not really enough to warrant saying "the user base declined tremendously" from years like 09 and 12. I'd say the user base has for the most part stayed basically the same over the years. New people come in and old users leave. That's the nature within the cycle of a game series.
You could say that the more "hardcore" elements have abandoned the game now that it has evolved past the "twitch" game it once was. But then that would hardly make them "hardcore" at all now would it? Someone who's hardcore would stick through it, because at the core, all they want is to play hockey. I stuck through the years of **** arcade game-style hockey and watched as this series evolved into something that more closely resembles what 2K Hockey brought to the table. Is it perfect? Of course not. But the direction this series is taking is a good one: NHL 07 to NHL 14 were almost largely the same game. NHL 15 to NHL 17 the game has wildly changed at every step not only in game features but in game mechanics as well, and we're seeing a much more evolved product in just 2 years than we ever did in the 7 years of last-gen NHL titles. And I think that more than anything will ensure that this series sticks around for a while longer still.
Yes, you're right, they're doing more social media advertising. Last year they had commercials with Irish rock music if I recall.
it was 30.00 digitally for a whole week with PS+
That is a very good deal like it or not, and I've seen a nice infusion of newer players too.
They do air commercials for NHL 17 on Sportsnet and before HNIC
I used to buy some packs once and while, maybe spent a few hundred on them over the years but I haven't spent a dime this year. Morever, I bought a second-hand copy NHL 17 three weeks after it was released for $49.99. That seemed like a good price for this game. There are aspects of this game I still do enjoy but it's no where near what it used to be.
PSN undertaker9999
Do pay attention 007... I thought we were discussing a fictional universe where the NHL franchise imploded due to lack of financial viability.
This game will only improve if EA gets rid of TPS and gives us back classic vision control.
Thankfully things are not left up to people like you. This series needs to move forward, not backwards. If you want your "glory years" game back, pop NHL 12 back into your Xbox 360 or PS3 and relive them.
I still have all my old games and my console. The day I start to get nostalgic, I'll probably do it myself. But I'm not one to dwell on the past. I tend to want to move ahead and look to the future.
Since NHL 13 what have we had to look forward to in the future? NHL 13 bad, nhl 14 bad, nhl 15 disaster, nhl 16 bad, nhl 17 bad. And you say lets stay on the current path? Wow.
The glory days were that for a reason, the game was a blast, it was popular, it had a cult following, it just worked! You cannot say that about the tame since NHL 13, since TPS and removal of classic vision control.