"I tend to want to move ahead and look to the future."
Since NHL 13 what have we had to look forward to in the future? NHL 13 bad, nhl 14 bad, nhl 15 disaster, nhl 16 bad, nhl 17 bad. And you say lets stay on the current path? Wow.
The glory days were that for a reason, the game was a blast, it was popular, it had a cult following, it just worked! You cannot say that about the tame since NHL 13, since TPS and removal of classic vision control.
LOL! They were all bad. From NHL 07 up to NHL 16, every game was "bad" for one reason or another. The only version I really liked was NHL 14, and ONLY because of the goalie mode, even though it was unrealistic as heck, I could control the goalie like I wanted to and do the things I knew how to do.
Does that mean I'd want the devs to make the goalies EXACTLY like they were back then? Heck NO! I want them to keep improving on the goalies. NHL 17's goalies are not on par with NHL 14's, but they're darned close. And at the same time they behave a lot more realistically than they used to in the old gen versions. Is it perfect? No. Are there still a ton of bugs and wonky mechanics to wade through? Of course.
But I want them to move forward and keep improving the engine. Not go back to what it used to be.
Remmember wheb they would make games, then you buy, then play. No add ons or packs to rob you with. Just stop paying for all the extra ****. The game makers would adapt. The video game industry will not go away.
Remember when you finished beating the game, and unless you wanted to play through the exact same story again, there wouldn't be anything different (very few exceptions). Remember whenever a game was released with a bug, you were stuck owning a game with that bug?
Some dlc is certainly predatory towards consumer purchasing mentality, but sometimes it's actually well worth it (see witcher 3), and can extend, and just plain makes the game itself better. Not all dlc is the devil, your line of thinking is illogical as it essentially ignores all of the negatives associated with a game releasing as is with no way to fix a problem. Considering pc games have been patching and fixing games since online gaming has been a thing, it's silly to say that it's only bad when consoles do it.
So those glory days.. lol
It might probably surprise some of you that use this mantra but nhl 10 and 11 sold the worst of all the games between 09-17.
So the series is healthy financially and TPS is well received over all.
Now back to your self-centeric bubble
As far as the quality goes and this might be little subjective naturally.. NHL 13 and NHL 17 are the best to me. Actually skating in 13 is phenomenal and very deep. It was little nerfed afterwards unfortunately, and some of that exciting depth thrown out of the window in the name of "control" and "responsiveness". #makenhlsillyagain
So those glory days.. lol
It might probably surprise some of you that use this mantra but nhl 10 and 11 sold the worst of all the games between 09-17.
So the series is healthy financially and TPS is well received over all.
Now back to your self-centeric bubble
As far as the quality goes and this might be little subjective naturally.. NHL 13 and NHL 17 are the best to me. Actually skating in 13 is phenomenal and very deep. It was little nerfed afterwards unfortunately, and some of that exciting depth thrown out of the window in the name of "control" and "responsiveness". #makenhlsillyagain
yes, because responsiveness and control for an online game is... well, silly!
"I tend to want to move ahead and look to the future."
Since NHL 13 what have we had to look forward to in the future? NHL 13 bad, nhl 14 bad, nhl 15 disaster, nhl 16 bad, nhl 17 bad. And you say lets stay on the current path? Wow.
The glory days were that for a reason, the game was a blast, it was popular, it had a cult following, it just worked! You cannot say that about the tame since NHL 13, since TPS and removal of classic vision control.
LOL! They were all bad. From NHL 07 up to NHL 16, every game was "bad" for one reason or another. The only version I really liked was NHL 14, and ONLY because of the goalie mode, even though it was unrealistic as heck, I could control the goalie like I wanted to and do the things I knew how to do.
Does that mean I'd want the devs to make the goalies EXACTLY like they were back then? Heck NO! I want them to keep improving on the goalies. NHL 17's goalies are not on par with NHL 14's, but they're darned close. And at the same time they behave a lot more realistically than they used to in the old gen versions. Is it perfect? No. Are there still a ton of bugs and wonky mechanics to wade through? Of course.
But I want them to move forward and keep improving the engine. Not go back to what it used to be.
This simply isn't true. NHL 11 and 12, while they had their faults, were extremely fun hockey games. It's no coincidence that the eashl community was booming during these years...the game was at its peak.
"I tend to want to move ahead and look to the future."
Since NHL 13 what have we had to look forward to in the future? NHL 13 bad, nhl 14 bad, nhl 15 disaster, nhl 16 bad, nhl 17 bad. And you say lets stay on the current path? Wow.
The glory days were that for a reason, the game was a blast, it was popular, it had a cult following, it just worked! You cannot say that about the tame since NHL 13, since TPS and removal of classic vision control.
LOL! They were all bad. From NHL 07 up to NHL 16, every game was "bad" for one reason or another. The only version I really liked was NHL 14, and ONLY because of the goalie mode, even though it was unrealistic as heck, I could control the goalie like I wanted to and do the things I knew how to do.
Does that mean I'd want the devs to make the goalies EXACTLY like they were back then? Heck NO! I want them to keep improving on the goalies. NHL 17's goalies are not on par with NHL 14's, but they're darned close. And at the same time they behave a lot more realistically than they used to in the old gen versions. Is it perfect? No. Are there still a ton of bugs and wonky mechanics to wade through? Of course.
But I want them to move forward and keep improving the engine. Not go back to what it used to be.
This simply isn't true. NHL 11 and 12, while they had their faults, were extremely fun hockey games. It's no coincidence that the eashl community was booming during these years...the game was at its peak.
Fun is very subjective. If i'm playing a racing game, having real time damage, weather effects and competent (read "Challenging) AI is fun to me. Others might think an Arcade Racer like Ridge Racer or Outrun is "fun". When I'm playing a shooting game, I prefer a game like Gears of War over more traditional "run-n-gun" shooters like Halo or CoD.
You prefer the twitch controls, up-n-down offense of NHL 11-12. I prefer the more sedate and "thinky" NHL 2K8 simulation hockey, which I think NHL 17 does a good job of imitating.
To each his own, but if I had to choose between realistic hockey and ping-pong hockey, i'll choose realistic hockey any day of the week.
"I tend to want to move ahead and look to the future."
Since NHL 13 what have we had to look forward to in the future? NHL 13 bad, nhl 14 bad, nhl 15 disaster, nhl 16 bad, nhl 17 bad. And you say lets stay on the current path? Wow.
The glory days were that for a reason, the game was a blast, it was popular, it had a cult following, it just worked! You cannot say that about the tame since NHL 13, since TPS and removal of classic vision control.
LOL! They were all bad. From NHL 07 up to NHL 16, every game was "bad" for one reason or another. The only version I really liked was NHL 14, and ONLY because of the goalie mode, even though it was unrealistic as heck, I could control the goalie like I wanted to and do the things I knew how to do.
Does that mean I'd want the devs to make the goalies EXACTLY like they were back then? Heck NO! I want them to keep improving on the goalies. NHL 17's goalies are not on par with NHL 14's, but they're darned close. And at the same time they behave a lot more realistically than they used to in the old gen versions. Is it perfect? No. Are there still a ton of bugs and wonky mechanics to wade through? Of course.
But I want them to move forward and keep improving the engine. Not go back to what it used to be.
This simply isn't true. NHL 11 and 12, while they had their faults, were extremely fun hockey games. It's no coincidence that the eashl community was booming during these years...the game was at its peak.
Fun is very subjective. If i'm playing a racing game, having real time damage, weather effects and competent (read "Challenging) AI is fun to me. Others might think an Arcade Racer like Ridge Racer or Outrun is "fun". When I'm playing a shooting game, I prefer a game like Gears of War over more traditional "run-n-gun" shooters like Halo or CoD.
You prefer the twitch controls, up-n-down offense of NHL 11-12. I prefer the more sedate and "thinky" NHL 2K8 simulation hockey, which I think NHL 17 does a good job of imitating.
To each his own, but if I had to choose between realistic hockey and ping-pong hockey, i'll choose realistic hockey any day of the week.
You're trying to pigeon hole me as some arcade gamer that doesn't care about strategy, but that's false.
In 11 and 12, you still had to play well positionally, and had to out think your opponents. The biggest difference is, since it was faster paced and the movement was less restrictive, you had to make your decisions faster, and the players who could out think their opponents more quickly were successful.
In the new games, the game speed and restrictive mobility makes it so people who think the game slower can compete. The most frustrating thing about the new games is when you see a play developing and you want to execute a certain move but are unable to because of the sluggish controls.
Call it strategic if you want, I think it's just slow and real hockey isn't supposed to be slow.
So those glory days.. lol
It might probably surprise some of you that use this mantra but nhl 10 and 11 sold the worst of all the games between 09-17.
So the series is healthy financially and TPS is well received over all.
Now back to your self-centeric bubble
As far as the quality goes and this might be little subjective naturally.. NHL 13 and NHL 17 are the best to me. Actually skating in 13 is phenomenal and very deep. It was little nerfed afterwards unfortunately, and some of that exciting depth thrown out of the window in the name of "control" and "responsiveness". #makenhlsillyagain
yes, because responsiveness and control for an online game is... well, silly!
Sorry for not being absolutely clear.
So NHL 13 felt responsive and I actually felt perfectly in control of a player on SKATES.
There was just this nice extra layer of realism that you have take into account the physics and that you are on SKATES on ICE and use this extra SKILLS to your advantage. It felt right and fun, to ME.
So those glory days.. lol
It might probably surprise some of you that use this mantra but nhl 10 and 11 sold the worst of all the games between 09-17.
So the series is healthy financially and TPS is well received over all.
Now back to your self-centeric bubble
As far as the quality goes and this might be little subjective naturally.. NHL 13 and NHL 17 are the best to me. Actually skating in 13 is phenomenal and very deep. It was little nerfed afterwards unfortunately, and some of that exciting depth thrown out of the window in the name of "control" and "responsiveness". #makenhlsillyagain
yes, because responsiveness and control for an online game is... well, silly!
Sorry for not being absolutely clear.
So NHL 13 felt responsive and I actually felt perfectly in control of a player on SKATES.
There was just this nice extra layer of realism that you have take into account the physics and that you are on SKATES on ICE and use this extra SKILLS to your advantage. It felt right and fun, to ME.
And that is fine. I want TPS to improve, not scrap it. EA has done enough stripping down of things in this game as it is.
A large part of the problem online with TPS has to do with delay. The other part, to me, is vision control needs improvement.
Just fix the actual problems and test things in a real life use case scenario and not in a lab.
The reason nhl 13 sales went up from nhl 12 was because nhl 12 was a fun game, obviously people are going to buy 13. Then when they realized the step back 13 was, you can see that 14s sales dropped. Then go to nhl 15, myself like I'm sure many others bought the game on both last gen, and current gen so there was probably many sales just from that, as well as the fact it was the first release on ps4/xbone and people wanted to try it.
I suspect you are correct on this: there would likely a be a 1-year lag as the results are felt.
Come to think of it, has anyone seen a NHL 17 commercial on TV? I remember NHL 16 had a boat load of TV ads pumping the game. I can only think of the World Cup of Hockey having board ADs for NHL 17.
I was thinking this the other day too, but quickly realized that I'm a recent convert from traditional cable TV to just streaming services. GameCenter Live doesn't show any commercials.
So, I'm not so sure if it's that the NHL series is no longer being marketed. I think EA is taking a forward thinking approach to how to market things in other ways due to traditional TV seemingly dying.
I think game marketing is changing a bit. When Gears 4 came out there was no big launch event really or TV ads. The most advertising I saw was in-app ads in The Score hockey app. Ironically
"I tend to want to move ahead and look to the future."
Since NHL 13 what have we had to look forward to in the future? NHL 13 bad, nhl 14 bad, nhl 15 disaster, nhl 16 bad, nhl 17 bad. And you say lets stay on the current path? Wow.
The glory days were that for a reason, the game was a blast, it was popular, it had a cult following, it just worked! You cannot say that about the tame since NHL 13, since TPS and removal of classic vision control.
LOL! They were all bad. From NHL 07 up to NHL 16, every game was "bad" for one reason or another. The only version I really liked was NHL 14, and ONLY because of the goalie mode, even though it was unrealistic as heck, I could control the goalie like I wanted to and do the things I knew how to do.
Does that mean I'd want the devs to make the goalies EXACTLY like they were back then? Heck NO! I want them to keep improving on the goalies. NHL 17's goalies are not on par with NHL 14's, but they're darned close. And at the same time they behave a lot more realistically than they used to in the old gen versions. Is it perfect? No. Are there still a ton of bugs and wonky mechanics to wade through? Of course.
But I want them to move forward and keep improving the engine. Not go back to what it used to be.
Imagine the outcry if all they did was release updated rosters and left all the skating and everything else alone. "The game is stale"
I really think its the nature of people to never be happy. OR IOW "Damned if you do, damned if you dont".
All sequels have this peril: change things enough but not too much.
"I tend to want to move ahead and look to the future."
Since NHL 13 what have we had to look forward to in the future? NHL 13 bad, nhl 14 bad, nhl 15 disaster, nhl 16 bad, nhl 17 bad. And you say lets stay on the current path? Wow.
The glory days were that for a reason, the game was a blast, it was popular, it had a cult following, it just worked! You cannot say that about the tame since NHL 13, since TPS and removal of classic vision control.
LOL! They were all bad. From NHL 07 up to NHL 16, every game was "bad" for one reason or another. The only version I really liked was NHL 14, and ONLY because of the goalie mode, even though it was unrealistic as heck, I could control the goalie like I wanted to and do the things I knew how to do.
Does that mean I'd want the devs to make the goalies EXACTLY like they were back then? Heck NO! I want them to keep improving on the goalies. NHL 17's goalies are not on par with NHL 14's, but they're darned close. And at the same time they behave a lot more realistically than they used to in the old gen versions. Is it perfect? No. Are there still a ton of bugs and wonky mechanics to wade through? Of course.
But I want them to move forward and keep improving the engine. Not go back to what it used to be.
This simply isn't true. NHL 11 and 12, while they had their faults, were extremely fun hockey games. It's no coincidence that the eashl community was booming during these years...the game was at its peak.
Fun is very subjective. If i'm playing a racing game, having real time damage, weather effects and competent (read "Challenging) AI is fun to me. Others might think an Arcade Racer like Ridge Racer or Outrun is "fun". When I'm playing a shooting game, I prefer a game like Gears of War over more traditional "run-n-gun" shooters like Halo or CoD.
You prefer the twitch controls, up-n-down offense of NHL 11-12. I prefer the more sedate and "thinky" NHL 2K8 simulation hockey, which I think NHL 17 does a good job of imitating.
To each his own, but if I had to choose between realistic hockey and ping-pong hockey, i'll choose realistic hockey any day of the week.
You're trying to pigeon hole me as some arcade gamer that doesn't care about strategy, but that's false.
I'm not doing anything. You're doing it on your own:
In 11 and 12, you still had to play well positionally, and had to out think your opponents. The biggest difference is, since it was faster paced and the movement was less restrictive, you had to make your decisions faster, and the players who could out think their opponents more quickly were successful.
Call it strategic if you want, I think it's just slow and real hockey isn't supposed to be slow.
Real hockey is fast, but the angle you view hockey games on TV makes it seems a lot faster since it's a stationary camera following the action. If they had a camera that not only panned and zoomed, but followed the play on string (like in the game) you'd see that the REAL game is played at about the same pace as the videogame.
Ben himself has also confirmed that the game is played a little faster (on the default slider settings) than real life to accommodate for the shorter periods the game is set to and online lag.
Another thing that skews your views on "speed" is that most people that play this game try to carry the puck from end to end and then they try to compare it to a real life NHL game, where the puck is brought up the ice by PASSING, which is a lot faster, by several degrees, than skating it up by yourself. You want the game to be faster? Pass the puck. I can get the puck from my blue line to the opponent's blue line in 2 seconds by making a quick outlet pass, then making a pass across the ice to my winger. Bang-bang!
Can't be quicker than that.
PS: As for "thinking" faster, you can't. All humans think at the same speed. It's your decision making that's faster or slower than someone else. You want to make quick decision before you've had the time to fully think it over, where you're reacting almost instinctively. That's the definition of "twitch" gameplay.
That's not true: I absolutely agree with everyone that wants more control. I'm one of those. I just can't agree with people just saying "Bring back NHL 12 controls and skating".
For myself, I adored the Goalie controls of NHL 14, even though they were far from realistic. But did I once say that I wanted the goalies to go back to how they were in NHL 14? I'd like if the current controls were as responsive as they were in the previous-gen game, absolutely. But you would never catch me saying something so daft as "I want the devs to put back the NHL 14 goalies in the game".
I had to adapt as a goalie and learn the new controls + mechanics or continue **** that the game is sh*te, and the goalies suck, and Rammer should be fired, and why-o-why isn't Ben in charge!! Blah, blah, blah, blah... I've come to appreciate the new mechanics. The game is moving in a new direction that's more realistic than we've ever had before.
It's not 100% realistic (I doubt it will ever be), but it's a good foundation for the future. I just don't think it's a good idea to mess it up when this product is finally starting to show some promise by requesting things like bringing back the game to what it was in previous-gen.
No, he simply stated "NHL 11-12 were fun" and explained it via "It was faster paced and more responsive" and "the players who could out think their opponents more quickly were successful". Nowhere did he state he wanted better controls, which I would've readily agreed with.
What I took him to mean, was that he wants arcadey twitch controls and fast paced game style. If that's NOT what he meant, then I appologize... However he didn't explain it correctly if that's the case.
Yeah, usually games where the controls are responsive tend to be more fun. With more responsive controlls comes the need for better decision-making which would lead to the game feeling "faster".
Replies
LOL! They were all bad. From NHL 07 up to NHL 16, every game was "bad" for one reason or another. The only version I really liked was NHL 14, and ONLY because of the goalie mode, even though it was unrealistic as heck, I could control the goalie like I wanted to and do the things I knew how to do.
Does that mean I'd want the devs to make the goalies EXACTLY like they were back then? Heck NO! I want them to keep improving on the goalies. NHL 17's goalies are not on par with NHL 14's, but they're darned close. And at the same time they behave a lot more realistically than they used to in the old gen versions. Is it perfect? No. Are there still a ton of bugs and wonky mechanics to wade through? Of course.
But I want them to move forward and keep improving the engine. Not go back to what it used to be.
Remember when you finished beating the game, and unless you wanted to play through the exact same story again, there wouldn't be anything different (very few exceptions). Remember whenever a game was released with a bug, you were stuck owning a game with that bug?
Some dlc is certainly predatory towards consumer purchasing mentality, but sometimes it's actually well worth it (see witcher 3), and can extend, and just plain makes the game itself better. Not all dlc is the devil, your line of thinking is illogical as it essentially ignores all of the negatives associated with a game releasing as is with no way to fix a problem. Considering pc games have been patching and fixing games since online gaming has been a thing, it's silly to say that it's only bad when consoles do it.
It might probably surprise some of you that use this mantra but nhl 10 and 11 sold the worst of all the games between 09-17.
So the series is healthy financially and TPS is well received over all.
Now back to your self-centeric bubble
As far as the quality goes and this might be little subjective naturally.. NHL 13 and NHL 17 are the best to me. Actually skating in 13 is phenomenal and very deep. It was little nerfed afterwards unfortunately, and some of that exciting depth thrown out of the window in the name of "control" and "responsiveness". #makenhlsillyagain
yes, because responsiveness and control for an online game is... well, silly!
This simply isn't true. NHL 11 and 12, while they had their faults, were extremely fun hockey games. It's no coincidence that the eashl community was booming during these years...the game was at its peak.
Fun is very subjective. If i'm playing a racing game, having real time damage, weather effects and competent (read "Challenging) AI is fun to me. Others might think an Arcade Racer like Ridge Racer or Outrun is "fun". When I'm playing a shooting game, I prefer a game like Gears of War over more traditional "run-n-gun" shooters like Halo or CoD.
You prefer the twitch controls, up-n-down offense of NHL 11-12. I prefer the more sedate and "thinky" NHL 2K8 simulation hockey, which I think NHL 17 does a good job of imitating.
To each his own, but if I had to choose between realistic hockey and ping-pong hockey, i'll choose realistic hockey any day of the week.
You're trying to pigeon hole me as some arcade gamer that doesn't care about strategy, but that's false.
In 11 and 12, you still had to play well positionally, and had to out think your opponents. The biggest difference is, since it was faster paced and the movement was less restrictive, you had to make your decisions faster, and the players who could out think their opponents more quickly were successful.
In the new games, the game speed and restrictive mobility makes it so people who think the game slower can compete. The most frustrating thing about the new games is when you see a play developing and you want to execute a certain move but are unable to because of the sluggish controls.
Call it strategic if you want, I think it's just slow and real hockey isn't supposed to be slow.
Sorry for not being absolutely clear.
So NHL 13 felt responsive and I actually felt perfectly in control of a player on SKATES.
There was just this nice extra layer of realism that you have take into account the physics and that you are on SKATES on ICE and use this extra SKILLS to your advantage. It felt right and fun, to ME.
And that is fine. I want TPS to improve, not scrap it. EA has done enough stripping down of things in this game as it is.
A large part of the problem online with TPS has to do with delay. The other part, to me, is vision control needs improvement.
Just fix the actual problems and test things in a real life use case scenario and not in a lab.
I really think its the nature of people to never be happy. OR IOW "Damned if you do, damned if you dont".
All sequels have this peril: change things enough but not too much.
Agreed!
I'm not doing anything. You're doing it on your own:
Real hockey is fast, but the angle you view hockey games on TV makes it seems a lot faster since it's a stationary camera following the action. If they had a camera that not only panned and zoomed, but followed the play on string (like in the game) you'd see that the REAL game is played at about the same pace as the videogame.
Ben himself has also confirmed that the game is played a little faster (on the default slider settings) than real life to accommodate for the shorter periods the game is set to and online lag.
Another thing that skews your views on "speed" is that most people that play this game try to carry the puck from end to end and then they try to compare it to a real life NHL game, where the puck is brought up the ice by PASSING, which is a lot faster, by several degrees, than skating it up by yourself. You want the game to be faster? Pass the puck. I can get the puck from my blue line to the opponent's blue line in 2 seconds by making a quick outlet pass, then making a pass across the ice to my winger. Bang-bang!
Can't be quicker than that.
PS: As for "thinking" faster, you can't. All humans think at the same speed. It's your decision making that's faster or slower than someone else. You want to make quick decision before you've had the time to fully think it over, where you're reacting almost instinctively. That's the definition of "twitch" gameplay.
For myself, I adored the Goalie controls of NHL 14, even though they were far from realistic. But did I once say that I wanted the goalies to go back to how they were in NHL 14? I'd like if the current controls were as responsive as they were in the previous-gen game, absolutely. But you would never catch me saying something so daft as "I want the devs to put back the NHL 14 goalies in the game".
I had to adapt as a goalie and learn the new controls + mechanics or continue **** that the game is sh*te, and the goalies suck, and Rammer should be fired, and why-o-why isn't Ben in charge!! Blah, blah, blah, blah... I've come to appreciate the new mechanics. The game is moving in a new direction that's more realistic than we've ever had before.
It's not 100% realistic (I doubt it will ever be), but it's a good foundation for the future. I just don't think it's a good idea to mess it up when this product is finally starting to show some promise by requesting things like bringing back the game to what it was in previous-gen.
What I took him to mean, was that he wants arcadey twitch controls and fast paced game style. If that's NOT what he meant, then I appologize... However he didn't explain it correctly if that's the case.