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A very underrated complaint...

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  • Dixonyu wrote: »
    DeejNYLV wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    DeejNYLV wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    On a possessed puck that was dragged through a players legs in a wrist shot attempt, they would lose the puck.

    This year, we tried to put the player taking the shot into a stumble but that caused some knock ons. Instead, we really hinder your shot and it flubs away if your stick goes through a players stick or legs first. If you aren't seeing that, please let us know as that hasn't been the case in the games we have played or the testing we have done. Thanks.

    Bure shoots and scores right through a player's leg:

    Booooh!!

    I commented on this in another thread where this video was also used. We don't consider incidental contact against a teammate.

    The reason for this is because we don't have any avoid animations for your teammate to lift a leg or move their stick to avoid contact that would disrupt your pickup, allow you to skate through a tighter space or get a shot off.

    For opponents, we know they would want to do anything they could to disrupt you so it works in those cases.

    We did have a task early on to allow incidental contact with teammates as well as part of our incidental contact toggle for offline play but it was cut due to time. It may be something we can look at again in the future so that people could see how the game plays with it and give feedback. We could also look at it selectively such as only when you are shooting, etc.

    I get and understand your point, bit it is in itself a good portion of the problem. There is just so much that still needs to be done and all that should have taken priority over mascots, hot dog vendors, celebrations and goal horns.

    Worse than that, players can still simply glide in front of players trying to skate back to their zone simply to slow them down. There is no way to whip around a slower moving skater. Holding out your stick negates medium to slow speed checks. They simply do not register. These 2 issues have been going on for years.

    I am glad you post your ideas and why certain things work the way they do (or sometimes don't) but eventually, I would expect a permanent fix. Hopefully there will be resources to fix the many issues in every single game mode for NHL 18 instead of adding, for example, a glow-in-the-dark mode for EASHL....

    People keep harping on about hot dog vendors and mascots, you are aware that gameplay and presentation are 2 different things right? They are never not going to add or put any effort into improving presentation, nor should they. People want a game that looks good. It's an irrelevant comparison and a false equivalency you are setting up. "Gameplay would be better if they didn't add the Jersey Devil" is wrong. There are tons of AI issues, and gameplay problems that need to be fixed, and we should definitely continue to post/rant about them here but complaining about something they have done well is plain silly.

    Just like they won't remove modes and features then bring them back and hope no one noticed that it was already in the game before ... Not the first franchise mode, not the first time you can adjust prices either I'm pretty sure ...

    Yep, wasn't it in NHL94 that they first introduced Glass Breaking (from a shot) and Broken Sticks? Then they brought those 2 features back in the most recent games

    Why do people want glass breaking? It's the most annoying, game delaying mechanic ever. It happens in the NHL less than once per season. I don't ever want to see glass breaking back in the game, it's nothing but a time waster that often killed good cycles/forechecks.

    Because it was realistic back in the day, with good technology now, it very rarely happens ...

    No, it wasn't realistic back in the day. Back in the day, it happened once or twice a year league wide. That's thousands of games each season and 1 or 2 occurances. In NHL 14 it happened almost every game. Nothing realistic about that slugger.
  • joefitz22 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    Because it was realistic back in the day, with good technology now, it very rarely happens ...

    Exactly. And just as the game is evolving away from fighting, we should see less and less development time spent in that area as well. Just my opinion, however.

    I 2nd this ^^

    This goes to with the Presentation / Graphics as well. They look AWESOME as is, no need to keep dumping money into this dept and trying to improve it year after year anymore, especially when there are still major flaws with the CORE Game play that needs fixed.

    IF you're restoring an old classic muscle car, you're not gonna worry about a shiny new paint job (Presentation / Graphics) when the car doesn't run and has a boat load of other issues (objects passing through other objects, puck pick ups, player bubbles, etc) that need Fixed first. Aye that shiny new paint job looks pretty while sitting in the garage but the car itself is sitting on a car jack with NO engine, NO interior, NO electrical wiring, Etc Etc....so in reality, what good is that shiny new paint job?

    This is wrong. I want presentation improved, I want it worked out every year. Just because you don't care about it doesn't mean others don't. Also, EA is never going to scrap presentation, so railing against it is silly. Better to be laying out criticism of the things wrong with game so they know what to have the gameplay side focus on (AI! AI! AI!)
  • DeejNYLV wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    Because it was realistic back in the day, with good technology now, it very rarely happens ...

    Exactly. And just as the game is evolving away from fighting, we should see less and less development time spent in that area as well. Just my opinion, however.

    I 2nd this ^^

    This goes to with the Presentation / Graphics as well. They look AWESOME as is, no need to keep dumping money into this dept and trying to improve it year after year anymore, especially when there are still major flaws with the CORE Game play that needs fixed.

    IF you're restoring an old classic muscle car, you're not gonna worry about a shiny new paint job (Presentation / Graphics) when the car doesn't run and has a boat load of other issues (objects passing through other objects, puck pick ups, player bubbles, etc) that need Fixed first. Aye that shiny new paint job looks pretty while sitting in the garage but the car itself is sitting on a car jack with NO engine, NO interior, NO electrical wiring, Etc Etc....so in reality, what good is that shiny new paint job?

    This is wrong. I want presentation improved, I want it worked out every year. Just because you don't care about it doesn't mean others don't. Also, EA is never going to scrap presentation, so railing against it is silly. Better to be laying out criticism of the things wrong with game so they know what to have the gameplay side focus on (AI! AI! AI!)

    so if the big game flaw (say every time you cross opponents blue line with the puck, THE GAME decides to pull your goalie) that goes UNfixed year in and year out for 4,5 6 years...you'd be ok with that as long as you got pretty new shiny Arenas and more vendors in the stands and more mascot animations?? By allocating more money at employees to create these new shiny Arenas and mascots and vendors you're taking away the EXTRA money that could be better allocated to the Dept that FIXES the BIG GAME FLAW that is still in the game 6yrs later. Once the BIG GAME FLAW is fixed, then and only then do you start allocating money to shiny new Arenas and vendors and mascots

    IRL, when I go to a Hockey game, I DO NOT pay good money to give 2 sheets what the stupid mascot is doing, I go to watch the TEAM that I follow play the game. Not to be that IN MY DAY old guy but when I was a young lad and went to a Pens game with my Grandfather, I went for the sole purpose of WATCHING the game, learning the finer points of the game, learned how to fill out a scorecard, etc....there was no stupid fluff as a mascot roaming the stands or Dance for you Dilly bar (ice cream on a stick), the game is what kept peoples attention and interest

    As someone already stated, you DO NOT go to your favorite "Burger Place" or "Pizza Establishment" to see their particular mascot or restaurant, You DO however go to their establishment because you like their FOOD and their (good) FOOD is what keeps you coming back time and again. If your favorite Pizza Establishment rolled out a brand new shiny mascot BUT their food quality went way down hill, would you still go to said Establishment just for the Mascot??
  • joefitz22 wrote: »
    DeejNYLV wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    Because it was realistic back in the day, with good technology now, it very rarely happens ...

    Exactly. And just as the game is evolving away from fighting, we should see less and less development time spent in that area as well. Just my opinion, however.

    I 2nd this ^^

    This goes to with the Presentation / Graphics as well. They look AWESOME as is, no need to keep dumping money into this dept and trying to improve it year after year anymore, especially when there are still major flaws with the CORE Game play that needs fixed.

    IF you're restoring an old classic muscle car, you're not gonna worry about a shiny new paint job (Presentation / Graphics) when the car doesn't run and has a boat load of other issues (objects passing through other objects, puck pick ups, player bubbles, etc) that need Fixed first. Aye that shiny new paint job looks pretty while sitting in the garage but the car itself is sitting on a car jack with NO engine, NO interior, NO electrical wiring, Etc Etc....so in reality, what good is that shiny new paint job?

    This is wrong. I want presentation improved, I want it worked out every year. Just because you don't care about it doesn't mean others don't. Also, EA is never going to scrap presentation, so railing against it is silly. Better to be laying out criticism of the things wrong with game so they know what to have the gameplay side focus on (AI! AI! AI!)

    so if the big game flaw (say every time you cross opponents blue line with the puck, THE GAME decides to pull your goalie) that goes UNfixed year in and year out for 4,5 6 years...you'd be ok with that as long as you got pretty new shiny Arenas and more vendors in the stands and more mascot animations?? By allocating more money at employees to create these new shiny Arenas and mascots and vendors you're taking away the EXTRA money that could be better allocated to the Dept that FIXES the BIG GAME FLAW that is still in the game 6yrs later. Once the BIG GAME FLAW is fixed, then and only then do you start allocating money to shiny new Arenas and vendors and mascots

    IRL, when I go to a Hockey game, I DO NOT pay good money to give 2 sheets what the stupid mascot is doing, I go to watch the TEAM that I follow play the game. Not to be that IN MY DAY old guy but when I was a young lad and went to a Pens game with my Grandfather, I went for the sole purpose of WATCHING the game, learning the finer points of the game, learned how to fill out a scorecard, etc....there was no stupid fluff as a mascot roaming the stands or Dance for you Dilly bar (ice cream on a stick), the game is what kept peoples attention and interest

    As someone already stated, you DO NOT go to your favorite "Burger Place" or "Pizza Establishment" to see their particular mascot or restaurant, You DO however go to their establishment because you like their FOOD and their (good) FOOD is what keeps you coming back time and again. If your favorite Pizza Establishment rolled out a brand new shiny mascot BUT their food quality went way down hill, would you still go to said Establishment just for the Mascot??

    You are just swimming in false equivalency here. Gameplay and presentation are 2 totally different teams for the development of this game. If they get rid of presentation, it's not going to help the gameplay. Also, they are never going to scrap presentation....ever. So whining about it is like whining that you don't want to to go to school, it won't change anything, so suck it up buttercup and try not to cry like a baby so much. Also, learn what a logical fallacy is try to avoid using them as your arguments are SWIMMING in them slugger.
  • DeejNYLV wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    DeejNYLV wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    Because it was realistic back in the day, with good technology now, it very rarely happens ...

    Exactly. And just as the game is evolving away from fighting, we should see less and less development time spent in that area as well. Just my opinion, however.

    I 2nd this ^^

    This goes to with the Presentation / Graphics as well. They look AWESOME as is, no need to keep dumping money into this dept and trying to improve it year after year anymore, especially when there are still major flaws with the CORE Game play that needs fixed.

    IF you're restoring an old classic muscle car, you're not gonna worry about a shiny new paint job (Presentation / Graphics) when the car doesn't run and has a boat load of other issues (objects passing through other objects, puck pick ups, player bubbles, etc) that need Fixed first. Aye that shiny new paint job looks pretty while sitting in the garage but the car itself is sitting on a car jack with NO engine, NO interior, NO electrical wiring, Etc Etc....so in reality, what good is that shiny new paint job?

    This is wrong. I want presentation improved, I want it worked out every year. Just because you don't care about it doesn't mean others don't. Also, EA is never going to scrap presentation, so railing against it is silly. Better to be laying out criticism of the things wrong with game so they know what to have the gameplay side focus on (AI! AI! AI!)

    so if the big game flaw (say every time you cross opponents blue line with the puck, THE GAME decides to pull your goalie) that goes UNfixed year in and year out for 4,5 6 years...you'd be ok with that as long as you got pretty new shiny Arenas and more vendors in the stands and more mascot animations?? By allocating more money at employees to create these new shiny Arenas and mascots and vendors you're taking away the EXTRA money that could be better allocated to the Dept that FIXES the BIG GAME FLAW that is still in the game 6yrs later. Once the BIG GAME FLAW is fixed, then and only then do you start allocating money to shiny new Arenas and vendors and mascots

    IRL, when I go to a Hockey game, I DO NOT pay good money to give 2 sheets what the stupid mascot is doing, I go to watch the TEAM that I follow play the game. Not to be that IN MY DAY old guy but when I was a young lad and went to a Pens game with my Grandfather, I went for the sole purpose of WATCHING the game, learning the finer points of the game, learned how to fill out a scorecard, etc....there was no stupid fluff as a mascot roaming the stands or Dance for you Dilly bar (ice cream on a stick), the game is what kept peoples attention and interest

    As someone already stated, you DO NOT go to your favorite "Burger Place" or "Pizza Establishment" to see their particular mascot or restaurant, You DO however go to their establishment because you like their FOOD and their (good) FOOD is what keeps you coming back time and again. If your favorite Pizza Establishment rolled out a brand new shiny mascot BUT their food quality went way down hill, would you still go to said Establishment just for the Mascot??

    You are just swimming in false equivalency here. Gameplay and presentation are 2 totally different teams for the development of this game. If they get rid of presentation, it's not going to help the gameplay. Also, they are never going to scrap presentation....ever. So whining about it is like whining that you don't want to to go to school, it won't change anything, so suck it up buttercup and try not to cry like a baby so much. Also, learn what a logical fallacy is try to avoid using them as your arguments are SWIMMING in them slugger.

    Presentation still has to be coded and programmed into the game, which takes resources, slugger.

    15 had life-like arenas and NBC presentation, yet hardly any game modes. The AI programming was, and still is, abysmal. Do the math, slugger.
  • megadeth_600
    1437 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    KoryDub wrote: »

    Presentation still has to be coded and programmed into the game, which takes resources, slugger.

    15 had life-like arenas and NBC presentation, yet hardly any game modes. The AI programming was, and still is, abysmal. Do the math, slugger.

    They are two different teams. You're correct in that there are some engineers who need to make sure the presentation elements actually work in-game, but to say that just because presentation gets some refinements and additions that gameplay suddenly takes a backseat is flat out wrong.

    Then can you explain why NHL 15 was basically only presentation and HUT? Where were all the other programmers that don't involve graphics and presentation? What were they doing? And presentation did not get a refinement, it got priority.
  • DeejNYLV wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    DeejNYLV wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    Because it was realistic back in the day, with good technology now, it very rarely happens ...

    Exactly. And just as the game is evolving away from fighting, we should see less and less development time spent in that area as well. Just my opinion, however.

    I 2nd this ^^

    This goes to with the Presentation / Graphics as well. They look AWESOME as is, no need to keep dumping money into this dept and trying to improve it year after year anymore, especially when there are still major flaws with the CORE Game play that needs fixed.

    IF you're restoring an old classic muscle car, you're not gonna worry about a shiny new paint job (Presentation / Graphics) when the car doesn't run and has a boat load of other issues (objects passing through other objects, puck pick ups, player bubbles, etc) that need Fixed first. Aye that shiny new paint job looks pretty while sitting in the garage but the car itself is sitting on a car jack with NO engine, NO interior, NO electrical wiring, Etc Etc....so in reality, what good is that shiny new paint job?

    This is wrong. I want presentation improved, I want it worked out every year. Just because you don't care about it doesn't mean others don't. Also, EA is never going to scrap presentation, so railing against it is silly. Better to be laying out criticism of the things wrong with game so they know what to have the gameplay side focus on (AI! AI! AI!)

    so if the big game flaw (say every time you cross opponents blue line with the puck, THE GAME decides to pull your goalie) that goes UNfixed year in and year out for 4,5 6 years...you'd be ok with that as long as you got pretty new shiny Arenas and more vendors in the stands and more mascot animations?? By allocating more money at employees to create these new shiny Arenas and mascots and vendors you're taking away the EXTRA money that could be better allocated to the Dept that FIXES the BIG GAME FLAW that is still in the game 6yrs later. Once the BIG GAME FLAW is fixed, then and only then do you start allocating money to shiny new Arenas and vendors and mascots

    IRL, when I go to a Hockey game, I DO NOT pay good money to give 2 sheets what the stupid mascot is doing, I go to watch the TEAM that I follow play the game. Not to be that IN MY DAY old guy but when I was a young lad and went to a Pens game with my Grandfather, I went for the sole purpose of WATCHING the game, learning the finer points of the game, learned how to fill out a scorecard, etc....there was no stupid fluff as a mascot roaming the stands or Dance for you Dilly bar (ice cream on a stick), the game is what kept peoples attention and interest

    As someone already stated, you DO NOT go to your favorite "Burger Place" or "Pizza Establishment" to see their particular mascot or restaurant, You DO however go to their establishment because you like their FOOD and their (good) FOOD is what keeps you coming back time and again. If your favorite Pizza Establishment rolled out a brand new shiny mascot BUT their food quality went way down hill, would you still go to said Establishment just for the Mascot??

    You are just swimming in false equivalency here. Gameplay and presentation are 2 totally different teams for the development of this game. If they get rid of presentation, it's not going to help the gameplay. Also, they are never going to scrap presentation....ever. So whining about it is like whining that you don't want to to go to school, it won't change anything, so suck it up buttercup and try not to cry like a baby so much. Also, learn what a logical fallacy is try to avoid using them as your arguments are SWIMMING in them slugger.

    So behind the scenes when the Naval Air Station CEO / XO harp on HC6 (Squadron) and question it's CEO and XO which then they harp on Det 4's Chief P.O as to why Aircraft 17 is still having wiring issues 4 days later....you consider that to be whinning??

    Mate, I understand there are 2 different Depts that handle Gameplay and Presentation. But the PRIORITY of the NHL Series team should be Gameplay issues first and foremost. It's amazing that I (some happy go lucky old fart) had no idea what bugs/glitches/game exploits were (completely oblivious to these things, nor did I go out and purposely seek out slo mo replays to prove or disprove these things existed) until I saw them with me own eyes during a NHL13 GMC game (I won the game due to this bullsheet...I had no business winning that game but I did because of some bug/glitch in the game). This same issue that helped me win this GMC game back in NHL13 is still rampant in NHL17....why?? But yet as this bug/glitch goes UNfixed year in and year out (4 years or 4 installments of the game)...EA pounds their chest and goes "Lookie here boys, we ADDED vendors and mascots to the game" The community crys out (whines as you call it) BUT this Bug/Glitch still hasn't been fixed and it's been 4yrs....EA again says "Lookie here boys, we ADDED vendors and mascots to the game". You can polish a turd but it's still a turd

    YES it maybe the Presentation/Graphic Dept that is pounding their chest but the Gameplay Dept hasn't given us a fix to the same Bug/Glitches in the last 4yrs. So year after year when we get NEW shiny Arenas and mascots and vendors but 🎃🎃🎃🎃 as far as a 4yr old Bug/Glitch being fixed, what are we the Consumer supposed to think? To me the (oblivious) Consumer, that looks like EA has their Priorities bassackwards
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Then can you explain why NHL 15 was basically only presentation and HUT? Where were all the other programmers that don't involve graphics and presentation? What were they doing? And presentation did not get a refinement, it got priority.

    Do you understand what kind of an undertaking it is for engineers to make sure their engine works with two entirely new platforms?

    tons of duct tape and paper clips!

    o:)
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    Then can you explain why NHL 15 was basically only presentation and HUT? Where were all the other programmers that don't involve graphics and presentation? What were they doing? And presentation did not get a refinement, it got priority.

    Do you understand what kind of an undertaking it is for engineers to make sure their engine works with two entirely new platforms?

    tons of duct tape and paper clips!

    o:)

    giphy.gif

    I really want to post the MacGruber "celery" gif here, but I know you pesky mods might decide that would be the last of this login.
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    AQ0m2S5.png

    lol.. please don't :D

    hahaha! OK that wasn't the one I was targeting lmao
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Then can you explain why NHL 15 was basically only presentation and HUT? Where were all the other programmers that don't involve graphics and presentation? What were they doing? And presentation did not get a refinement, it got priority.

    Do you understand what kind of an undertaking it is for engineers to make sure their engine works with two entirely new platforms?

    Yes I do actually. The correct term you are looking for here, is, marketing. It makes up for any and all deficiencies.

    Seriously, I get it. But one thing is for sure, no matter which department is working on what, the programmers are affected by every single department. Yea sure Doc and Eddie get recorded, bla bla bla. But, who has to program that into the game? Who has to program which phrases go with which actions?

    So it is irrelevant which department did what when you say it is a different team. Without the actual game play programmers, all the other departments are useless. To say that other departments don't take away programming resources is false.
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