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Madden Vision Control Technology should be implemented with the NHL series

I remember playing Madden 06 with QB vision control (not sure why it was ditched) but this feature should be implemented with the NHL series. Yes we know that pass assist is available in the current game. However a vision control feature should be used "behind the code - not visible to the gamer" in determining the players ability and/or limitation to see the ice. In other words, give the game are real-life simulation in determining if they can see and/or react to the puck/players from behind them.

In other words, passing the puck to a player who is not looking at you (vision control focus away from the passer) should severely limited the receiving players ability to gain possession of the puck. Currently, the receiving player can blindly receive passes without looking in the direction of the puck.

Same holds true for opposing skaters, the ability to move the puck knowing a player is on your tail, lining you up for a check. With vision control focus away from the skater should limit your ability to react to that skater coming from behind.

Thoughts, comments?

Replies

  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    We actually had a 'fog of war' prototype a few years back, where based on your players offensive and defensive awareness ratings, you would see more or less of the ice. Players would be there and disappear when outside your ability to see or be aware of them. I thought it was a cool take since you otherwise have a birds eye view if you want it and can make up for your individual players true awareness.

    We currently tune different physical parameters when trying to pass quickly before having control, backhand vs forehand, against your momentum, etc and awareness attributes play into the error models as well.

    Last year people complained a lot with the higher accountability on pass receptions (harder to get pucks on your backhand, between your legs, bouncing pucks, etc) specifically saying it discouraged team play so we tuned it for overall balance for our online preset. All of that is still in the models though and you can see it when playing on the Full Sim preset or playing with the sliders yourself.

    Those factors are also still present at all times in the mechanics, it is just how much they are dialled in for the current preset you are on that would see the impact.

    If tuned to be more forgiving, like pass receptions are currently, you will see less variation in the physical accountability and less variation in attributes as more players have success more often with the current tuning. It basically just takes more thing to be wrong now (harder pass, on your backhand, weak attribute player) to see the differences than it did last year. Other models like hitting, shooting, etc, the accountability is much more obvious still.
  • This years game has a lot of the community complaining about the passing not going where they intended it to go. While there appears to be a "vision control" feature when passing the puck aka pass assist during game play this is not visible. If the puck comes in contact with the receiving player the puck is picked up automatically by that player regardless of what direction they are facing.

    Just to clarifying I know because of the nature of the gaming environment the gamer has an unfair advantage of seeing the entire ice front and back, something that in real-life is not possible. This is where the programming of the game needs to take over to give it the feel of "real-life". If your point of view (POV) is not facing the direction of a pass, your passing accuracy should severely being limited, yes I'm aware that some players have "eyes behind heads" and only those who have really high passing ratings should have a higher percentage of accuracy making blind passes.

    Same holds true for skating if your facing the boards and a player comes up from behind, your reaction time should be hampered simply because you can't see from behind. Perhaps this is where awareness ratings should come in to play.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    We actually had a 'fog of war' prototype a few years back, where based on your players offensive and defensive awareness ratings, you would see more or less of the ice. Players would be there and disappear when outside your ability to see or be aware of them. I thought it was a cool take since you otherwise have a birds eye view if you want it and can make up for your individual players true awareness.

    We currently tune different physical parameters when trying to pass quickly before having control, backhand vs forehand, against your momentum, etc and awareness attributes play into the error models as well.

    Last year people complained a lot with the higher accountability on pass receptions (harder to get pucks on your backhand, between your legs, bouncing pucks, etc) specifically saying it discouraged team play so we tuned it for overall balance for our online preset. All of that is still in the models though and you can see it when playing on the Full Sim preset or playing with the sliders yourself.

    Those factors are also still present at all times in the mechanics, it is just how much they are dialled in for the current preset you are on that would see the impact.

    If tuned to be more forgiving, like pass receptions are currently, you will see less variation in the physical accountability and less variation in attributes as more players have success more often with the current tuning. It basically just takes more thing to be wrong now (harder pass, on your backhand, weak attribute player) to see the differences than it did last year. Other models like hitting, shooting, etc, the accountability is much more obvious still.

    That fog of war thing sounds awesome, but you'd have to give us the ability to turn the players head somehow.
  • I don't like the idea of the fog of war for the simple fact that offensive and defensive awareness seems like such a subjective stat.

    Shot power, speed, acceleration are all stats that could be easily calculated based on factual evidence. But how do you calculate someone's awareness?

    I think Off. and Def. awareness need to be out of the game (especially in EASHL) as on-ice awareness should be determined by the user, not the game.
  • seriously i can't believe some of the topics that end up here... they aren't looking at the puck as it comes to them?? who cares

    these are NHL players, they don't have to turn around and lay down on the ice to receive a pass. they can be skating full speed through a crowd and pick up a stretch pass that comes between their legs with only so much as a slight glance out of the corner of their eye.

    So lets just assume that's the case and not waste dev time on things like animating mundane things the head turning towards the puck.
  • seriously i can't believe some of the topics that end up here... they aren't looking at the puck as it comes to them?? who cares

    these are NHL players, they don't have to turn around and lay down on the ice to receive a pass. they can be skating full speed through a crowd and pick up a stretch pass that comes between their legs with only so much as a slight glance out of the corner of their eye.

    So lets just assume that's the case and not waste dev time on things like animating mundane things the head turning towards the puck.

    You should save your rant when people come on here yapping about uniforms missing, or the fans sign have gone missing.
  • seriously i can't believe some of the topics that end up here... they aren't looking at the puck as it comes to them?? who cares

    these are NHL players, they don't have to turn around and lay down on the ice to receive a pass. they can be skating full speed through a crowd and pick up a stretch pass that comes between their legs with only so much as a slight glance out of the corner of their eye.

    So lets just assume that's the case and not waste dev time on things like animating mundane things the head turning towards the puck.
    I agree here. I already hate the fact your player slows to a crawl when looking to receive a puck, then when you get it it takes far too long to accelerate and you are basically a sitting duck in this game if you are not skating a full speed all the time. Put more on the passer to make a good pass. The passing in 10/11 was sooo much better and added skill to the game.
  • seriously i can't believe some of the topics that end up here... they aren't looking at the puck as it comes to them?? who cares

    these are NHL players, they don't have to turn around and lay down on the ice to receive a pass. they can be skating full speed through a crowd and pick up a stretch pass that comes between their legs with only so much as a slight glance out of the corner of their eye.

    So lets just assume that's the case and not waste dev time on things like animating mundane things the head turning towards the puck.
    I agree here. I already hate the fact your player slows to a crawl when looking to receive a puck, then when you get it it takes far too long to accelerate and you are basically a sitting duck in this game if you are not skating a full speed all the time. Put more on the passer to make a good pass. The passing in 10/11 was sooo much better and added skill to the game.
    Many of the gameplay issues we now experience are a result of EA slowing down the game speed to create a level playing field. The floaty skating, issues with pivots and turning, and most of the TPS issues can be attributed to slowing down the game speed.
    Try playing offline and increase the skating speed and acceleration - many of these issues disappear.
  • symmer1983 wrote: »
    I don't like the idea of the fog of war for the simple fact that offensive and defensive awareness seems like such a subjective stat.

    Shot power, speed, acceleration are all stats that could be easily calculated based on factual evidence. But how do you calculate someone's awareness?

    I think Off. and Def. awareness need to be out of the game (especially in EASHL) as on-ice awareness should be determined by the user, not the game.

    Maybe you don't no understand what these stats do. Defence awareness helps with intercepting passes and as I've said to Assisted_, standing in a lane is not good defence all the time. You can be picked apart by a great passer (aka playmaker build vs an offensive defenseman). If you give pass disturbance equal across the board for all builds, it voids a defensive defenseman as they are considered a shutdown dman.

    So I should have an advantage with intercepting passes if I use shea weber(DD) over jake gardiner (OD). Because if you're just saying that it should take the players ability to be in position to intercept a pass and not an attribute, well then it goes the same for hitting. If I lay a hit on a player with my 5'8 offensive defenseman, then I should lay him out because it was ME who lined him up and drilled him. And that makes no sense as I've just said it makes a lot of the attributes useless that way and this isn't blades of steel. Every player has strengths and weaknesses and you need to play each situation differently based on who you are and who is coming down the ice with the puck.

    Do you really think Duncan Keith just stands in the lane every single time? No. He plays each rush based on who has the puck. If Crosby has the puck, he has to respect his passing ability. If Matt Martin has the puck, he can be more aggressive on him because doing so, he could force a bad pass.

    That's why attributes work best.
  • symmer1983
    127 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    eric57664 wrote: »
    symmer1983 wrote: »
    I don't like the idea of the fog of war for the simple fact that offensive and defensive awareness seems like such a subjective stat.

    Shot power, speed, acceleration are all stats that could be easily calculated based on factual evidence. But how do you calculate someone's awareness?

    I think Off. and Def. awareness need to be out of the game (especially in EASHL) as on-ice awareness should be determined by the user, not the game.

    Maybe you don't no understand what these stats do.

    I definitely understand what the stats do. Also, if you're going to act condescending toward people on a forum, maybe proofread your post.

    The problem with assigning a stat like offensive or defensive awareness is that they are completely arbitrary.
    Arbitrary: based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

    How do you measure someone's awareness and try to simulate it? You can't - awareness should be in the hands of the user.
    eric57664 wrote: »
    Because if you're just saying that it should take the players ability to be in position to intercept a pass and not an attribute, well then it goes the same for hitting. If I lay a hit on a player with my 5'8 offensive defenseman, then I should lay him out because it was ME who lined him up and drilled him. And that makes no sense as I've just said it makes a lot of the attributes useless that way and this isn't blades of steel. Every player has strengths and weaknesses and you need to play each situation differently based on who you are and who is coming down the ice with the puck.

    Hitting should be determined by a few factors: (player size, the speed at which they are currently traveling, and point of contact).

    In your world, you want an attribute to decide if a player can make a check or not. In my world, I want the user to be able to execute a body check if he times it right and has a full head of steam.

    Too many attributes take away responsibility from the actual user.

    Oh and by the way, are you saying small guys can't hit?


    eric57664 wrote: »
    That's why attributes work best.

    If you want the game to decide how to play for you, that's your business. I'm going to continue to urge the developers to put more control into the user's hands rather than simulated CPU stats.
  • seriously i can't believe some of the topics that end up here... they aren't looking at the puck as it comes to them?? who cares

    these are NHL players, they don't have to turn around and lay down on the ice to receive a pass. they can be skating full speed through a crowd and pick up a stretch pass that comes between their legs with only so much as a slight glance out of the corner of their eye.

    So lets just assume that's the case and not waste dev time on things like animating mundane things the head turning towards the puck.
    I agree here. I already hate the fact your player slows to a crawl when looking to receive a puck, then when you get it it takes far too long to accelerate and you are basically a sitting duck in this game if you are not skating a full speed all the time. Put more on the passer to make a good pass. The passing in 10/11 was sooo much better and added skill to the game.
    Many of the gameplay issues we now experience are a result of EA slowing down the game speed to create a level playing field. The floaty skating, issues with pivots and turning, and most of the TPS issues can be attributed to slowing down the game speed.
    Try playing offline and increase the skating speed and acceleration - many of these issues disappear.
    I appreciate the advice...I only play eashl though, but thanks again.
  • eric57664
    240 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    symmer1983 wrote: »
    eric57664 wrote: »
    symmer1983 wrote: »
    I don't like the idea of the fog of war for the simple fact that offensive and defensive awareness seems like such a subjective stat.

    Shot power, speed, acceleration are all stats that could be easily calculated based on factual evidence. But how do you calculate someone's awareness?

    I think Off. and Def. awareness need to be out of the game (especially in EASHL) as on-ice awareness should be determined by the user, not the game.

    Maybe you don't no understand what these stats do.

    I definitely understand what the stats do. Also, if you're going to act condescending toward people on a forum, maybe proofread your post.

    The problem with assigning a stat like offensive or defensive awareness is that they are completely arbitrary.
    Arbitrary: based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

    How do you measure someone's awareness and try to simulate it? You can't - awareness should be in the hands of the user.
    eric57664 wrote: »
    Because if you're just saying that it should take the players ability to be in position to intercept a pass and not an attribute, well then it goes the same for hitting. If I lay a hit on a player with my 5'8 offensive defenseman, then I should lay him out because it was ME who lined him up and drilled him. And that makes no sense as I've just said it makes a lot of the attributes useless that way and this isn't blades of steel. Every player has strengths and weaknesses and you need to play each situation differently based on who you are and who is coming down the ice with the puck.

    Hitting should be determined by a few factors: (player size, the speed at which they are currently traveling, and point of contact).

    In your world, you want an attribute to decide if a player can make a check or not. In my world, I want the user to be able to execute a body check if he times it right and has a full head of steam.

    Too many attributes take away responsibility from the actual user.

    Oh and by the way, are you saying small guys can't hit?


    eric57664 wrote: »
    That's why attributes work best.

    If you want the game to decide how to play for you, that's your business. I'm going to continue to urge the developers to put more control into the user's hands rather than simulated CPU stats.

    No, I don't want the game to decide for me, but like I've said, if I'm using Duncan Keith or Crosby, I want better skills to emulate these players than if I was doing the exact same thing on my controller with a player like Matt Martin or Cal Clutterbuck. Because I don't want to deke fast with John Scott and Patrick Kane equally just as I've said I could move the right stick just as fast myself with my own fingers.

    So you're basically contradicting yourself because you want attributes to control some parts of the game and not other parts to it. Makes no sense.

    And yes, I know, smaller players can hit bigger players. But that's not how the game is built, especially eashl.

  • All we need is for EA to put the classic vision control back in the game, that's it, it worked perfectly before, no need to experiment with something else, go back to what worked perfectly.
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