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EASHL Connection Questions

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  • In a normal network environment issues like the ones we normally see in this game would almost always be server or client side application issues. That could be a busy server or one with a memory leak sucking up resources or even a client (console) that is having issues, something sucking up CPU cycles, again memory leaks, etc... that s because normally networks are very rarely the culprit.

    once you talk about online gaming you are throwing 1000s of individual home ISP connections as well as home networks into the mix. That makes it really tough to pin point but still, more often than not the issue is not the network. Unless you are some dummy playing over a large shared home network where a bunch of things are fighting for bandwidth. since most of the stories I hear people complaining they are playing late at night, nothing else running often even going so far as to turn off wifi on personal devices. I think it's safe to say majority of the issues are Console based or server based but not networking.

  • Everything the dev has said here makes sense and is basically how i would assume things work. but it doesn't line up exactly with the experiences people see.

    just using myself as an example:
    play 10 straight games where everything is basically equal. network is clean, ps4 is running fine, blah blah blah
    connect 7-8 games at 10-12ms 5-6 play ok, other 2 have moments of lag (even though network performance rating never changes)
    maybe 1-2 games at a solid 35-40ms and play is laggy.
    randomly every so often the game will run at 75-100ms the whole game. almost every single time this has happened the game has been by far the best experience to date. Everything is moving quicker, and very responsive.

    Also I've known quite a few people with bad connections crappy west coast connection with all east coast players, shared living space with multiple users and bad ping times, even mifi style high latency ISPs. Almost every time they say that other than some random spikes every so often or stability issues with disconnects, the game is very responsive.

    So based on my experience I don't see how other people lagging has no impact on the way the game plays for me. But that's just my opinion, don't have anything concrete behind that other than empirical evidence combined with what I'm able to find out on my own end.
  • Everything the dev has said here makes sense and is basically how i would assume things work. but it doesn't line up exactly with the experiences people see.

    just using myself as an example:
    play 10 straight games where everything is basically equal. network is clean, ps4 is running fine, blah blah blah
    connect 7-8 games at 10-12ms 5-6 play ok, other 2 have moments of lag (even though network performance rating never changes)
    maybe 1-2 games at a solid 35-40ms and play is laggy.
    randomly every so often the game will run at 75-100ms the whole game. almost every single time this has happened the game has been by far the best experience to date. Everything is moving quicker, and very responsive.

    Also I've known quite a few people with bad connections **** west coast connection with all east coast players, shared living space with multiple users and bad ping times, even mifi style high latency ISPs. Almost every time they say that other than some random spikes every so often or stability issues with disconnects, the game is very responsive.

    So based on my experience I don't see how other people lagging has no impact on the way the game plays for me. But that's just my opinion, don't have anything concrete behind that other than empirical evidence combined with what I'm able to find out on my own end.

    has been my feeling for quite sometime now.
  • "So based on my experience I don't see how other people lagging has no impact on the way the game plays for me. But that's just my opinion, don't have anything concrete behind that other than empirical evidence combined with what I'm able to find out on my own end."

    has been my feeling for quite sometime now.

    hence my post earlier:

    NHL_ONL_Producer wrote:

    "When choosing your group’s best game location it is only looking at your own team’s pings, so in this case assuming you had 3 west and 3 East, there in theory is an even split. We look at everyone’s ping response to each game server and use the mean and variance to determine which server is best for the team as a whole. It might be that the 3 West users on your team have a worse ping time to the East server while your East guys may have a better ping to West, thus your game could be sent to West. If you have your matchmaking settings set to “match my region” and you are connecting to West, your opponent will also be on West, so this shouldn’t be affecting their connection."

    so with that and the additional comment from ONL Producer:

    "In EASHL games, the game server will broadcast inputs to all users at a fixed interval"

    I would have to venture to say that, yes, there is a larger more complex issue going on as we see the slower / input lag even with my constant ping of 12 ms.

    Based on what you (NHL_ONL) are saying here, when folks see a layer 3 ping with ~ 15 ms response times, they should see no issue, regardless of 2 v2 or 6 v 6 if I am reading you correctly.
  • B_Bunny
    893 posts Moderator
    In 16 people thought captain lag was connection based the entire time as well, until they found the issue was a backlog of inputs causing the delay or something of that nature.
    PSN: B-Bunny
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Assisted_6 wrote: »
    All I've got to say is I had 50/5, upgraded to 100/10, then again to 250/25. Also had a new cable run to my house. Completely smooth on every game I play besides NHL. My network performance in game tells me I'm at 14 MS in eashl yet can't play with the huge delay. I will not touch the game again until it's fixed and won't purchase another one until I know I will be able to play it. Trust me, I want to play your game and give you guys money, but not when I can't physically play it

    Is this every game that you are at 14ms you feel this delay?
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    In a 6v6 eashl game, assuming 9 people are east coast and 3 are west - how likely is it that the server chosen is a west server? (Have had enough occurences with this already)

    And if a west server is indeed chosen, dont you find it counterintuitive to make 9 other players play on a rather large delay (30 to 50 ping in some cases) rather than have the 3 players from west play on an east server on such a delay?

    I know youve said its taking averages and choosing the best server, but with the above scenario that seems unlikely at times. As a matter of fact there are times where I feel it chooses the minority.

    When choosing your group’s best game location it is only looking at your own team’s pings, so in this case assuming you had 3 west and 3 East, there in theory is an even split. We look at everyone’s ping response to each game server and use the mean and variance to determine which server is best for the team as a whole. It might be that the 3 West users on your team have a worse ping time to the East server while your East guys may have a better ping to West, thus your game could be sent to West. If you have your matchmaking settings set to “match my region” and you are connecting to West, your opponent will also be on West, so this shouldn’t be affecting their connection.

    Then there's something wrong with ur algorithm as I've said in the past. We have 5 west coast players and 1 east coast player, yet 9/10 games are played on east servers.

    Let me break it down. Here are 2 examples of our team playing the same positions and what our pings are on each server.

    Eg. #1: East Server
    C - 15ms
    LW - 35ms
    RW - 40ms
    LD - 40ms
    RD - 35ms
    G - 35ms
    Total latency: 200ms
    Avg. latency: 33.3ms

    Eg. #2: West Server
    C - 40ms
    LW - 20ms
    RW - 15ms
    LD - 15ms
    RD - 20ms
    G - 20ms
    Total latency: 130ms
    Avg. latency: 21.7ms

    These numbers aren't even close! Our club is set to Exact matchmaking, why are we playing on the east servers?

    Solution:
    - fix ur algorithm
    AND
    - give us the option to choose our server like in year's past

    Fix this and I'll start playing again. Then you can figure out the issue where games feel much laggier than the performance tracker is reporting.
  • It's only nhl games that cause me to be slow fat man lag / sluggish since the 360 nhl version time to maintain the EA servers. It's 2017 !
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    In a 6v6 eashl game, assuming 9 people are east coast and 3 are west - how likely is it that the server chosen is a west server? (Have had enough occurences with this already)

    And if a west server is indeed chosen, dont you find it counterintuitive to make 9 other players play on a rather large delay (30 to 50 ping in some cases) rather than have the 3 players from west play on an east server on such a delay?

    I know youve said its taking averages and choosing the best server, but with the above scenario that seems unlikely at times. As a matter of fact there are times where I feel it chooses the minority.

    When choosing your group’s best game location it is only looking at your own team’s pings, so in this case assuming you had 3 west and 3 East, there in theory is an even split. We look at everyone’s ping response to each game server and use the mean and variance to determine which server is best for the team as a whole. It might be that the 3 West users on your team have a worse ping time to the East server while your East guys may have a better ping to West, thus your game could be sent to West. If you have your matchmaking settings set to “match my region” and you are connecting to West, your opponent will also be on West, so this shouldn’t be affecting their connection.

    Then there's something wrong with ur algorithm as I've said in the past. We have 5 west coast players and 1 east coast player, yet 9/10 games are played on east servers.

    Let me break it down. Here are 2 examples of our team playing the same positions and what our pings are on each server.

    Eg. #1: East Server
    C - 15ms
    LW - 35ms
    RW - 40ms
    LD - 40ms
    RD - 35ms
    G - 35ms
    Total latency: 200ms
    Avg. latency: 33.3ms

    Eg. #2: West Server
    C - 40ms
    LW - 20ms
    RW - 15ms
    LD - 15ms
    RD - 20ms
    G - 20ms
    Total latency: 130ms
    Avg. latency: 21.7ms

    These numbers aren't even close! Our club is set to Exact matchmaking, why are we playing on the east servers?

    Solution:
    - fix ur algorithm
    AND
    - give us the option to choose our server like in year's past

    Fix this and I'll start playing again. Then you can figure out the issue where games feel much laggier than the performance tracker is reporting.


    I made a post about this back in September, 2 weeks after the game was released:
    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/80654/eadevs-let-us-choose-between-east-west-europe-servers

    It's been over 4 months now and nothing's been done. No one's listened. Why do you not listen to your community? And do you even play your own game? If so, you'd know that it's a lagfest.

    Please just let us choose which server we want to play on. We know you won't fix the actual problem at hand, otherwise something would've been done by now. So just let us choose our server.

    P.S. I'm not sure why but the post I'm replying to (my own post) wasn't visible until I logged in. Is this a bug on the forums? Can anyone else see that post? It should've been posted January 27 @ 6:07PM PT.

    Thanks
  • Here are 2 more threads regarding this issue from September and November:
    https://forums.ea.com/en/discussion/80758/eadevs-eashl-home-team-captain-lag-is-back/p1
    https://forums.ea.com/en/discussion/85833/nhl-17-patch-nov-21-2016-no-network-performance-updates/p1

    Thanks for showing up "EA Network Guy". I really do mean that. It's nice to finally hear from someone in regards to the network issues. But come on... the game's been out for over 4 months now and there's been nothing, not even an acknowledgement that anything is wrong. It's a little late in the game. There's been numerous posts about these gamebreaking issues. You guys clearly don't give a ****.

    This used to be my favourite game but since moving to current gen consoles you clearly can't figure out how to get it to work properly online. Most importantly though, you've shown you really don't care about your community. This dev team needs a serious shakeup.
  • Besides port forwarding, are there modem settings which should be on/off with NHL? What about IPv4 vs IPv6 etc.?
  • I keep on asking if nhl 17 eashl and drop in games run on IPv6 or IPv4 still no reply from them , when will nhl be on dedicated servers won't that help for online ? Really I find when I'm plugged in and my connection is 250/20 I get fat man lag , but when I go on wifi game gets better ? I think the one who has the better connection will lag and the one who has slower internet speeds have way less lag why is that EA ?
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Besides port forwarding, are there modem settings which should be on/off with NHL? What about IPv4 vs IPv6 etc.?
    you shouldn't have to do any settings in your router for nhl, Just make sure upnp is on that's all you need. You having any other issues with other games ? I'll guess no ! It's NHL it's been like this since the 360 days but not this bad.

  • theleafsnation
    61 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    You guys really want to know what's going on with the way you connect to ea servers then I reconmen downloading pingplotter and pinging easo.ea.com it will tell you how high is your latency and if any packet loss on hops before it reaches EA servers . Pingplotter.com then post results here.
  • Unfortunately not all questions can be answered at this time as we may not have enough information on the subject, so i'll do my best to answer what I can.

    QUESTION: My ping usually averages 11ms, + or - , 0 packet loss, and no huge fluctuations in ping, and yet I still have games that lag terribly. Is there a reason that while the network performance monitor looks great, my game quality is not? I've had VS games in the 30s-70s that perform better than many EASHL games at 11ms

    ANSWER: While ping response time is typically the best predictor for network performance, it is not the sole determining factor for the performance in a single game, and a good ping time does not guarantee a flawless experience. If people are experiencing good ping times and poor responsiveness there could be another underlying issues we need to track down further.



    QUESTION: As mentioned, my ping is usually low. If it's not 11ms, then it is 48 ms. I've long suspected, and have recently confirmed that means I am connected to an East Coast server. Why am I connecting to an East Coast server? (Our club is a West Coast club and we always match region).

    ANSWER: The region that is selected when creating or editing a club has no impact on matchmaking; when a group initiates matchmaking from the Dressing Room we collect the ping times from each user to each of the possible server locations and use an algorithm to determine the “best” region for the group of users. So if I have a club for which the region is set to “NA West”, but the users that I am currently matchmaking with from the Dressing Room have better connections to the “NA East” region, then for the purposes of matchmaking this club will be preferring matchups that will result in a connection to the “NA East” server. I suspect that in some cases this may be a source of confusion for users due to the disconnect between the Club Region setting and the matchmaking, as if I am located on the west coast and my club is set to the “NA West” location I may be unaware that other users that I am matchmaking with might actually have better connections to the “NA East” server, and so even though the best option for me personally would be to connect to the “NA West” server, a better option for my group as a whole might actually be to connect to “NA East”.
    If users are playing a Drop-In game or are playing Club games with the “Match Club Region” rule set to “Relaxed” then there is no guarantee that they will be connected to their “best” server. For example, if we correctly determine that the “NA West” server is the ideal location for a group of users who are matchmaking together we will attempt to match them up with another group of users for whom “NA West” is also the ideal location. If no suitable match can be found then matchmaking will eventually expand to allow them to matchup with a group for whom “NA East” is the ideal location, and in this scenario one of the groups would be forced to play on a server that is not the ideal location for their group. The only way to avoid this would be to implement a hard matchmaking rule that would prohibit users from ever matchmaking with a group that is searching in a different region, which may then make it more difficult for users to find games.
    Note that this does not apply if the user is playing an EASHL Clubs game and has selected the “Exact” option for the “Match Club Region” rule, as we will not expand the matchmaking search to include groups searching in other regions.



    QUESTION: Does the captain matter when searching for a game?Does their network affect everyone who connects in that game, or everyone on that team? Will it affect game quality or ability to find a game?

    ANSWER: The captain is irrelevant when searching for a game. All users who are participating in the matchmaking will be considered equally when evaluation the “best” region to use for that group of users, and no extra weighting is given to the captain user.



    QUESTION: Does playing home give a better connection? I think most people believe so, as lots of people back out if they are away. We've noticed better connections at home most games.

    ANSWER: The Home team would only potentially have a better connection when groups with differing “best” regions are matched together. This certainly shouldn’t be the case most of the time, as we always prefer to matchup two groups that share the same “best” region.



    QUESTION: Does playing home/away affect game experience in VS? I've had nights where every game of VS I played was away, and it was terrible, until I get home and it's like playing offline. Then I have nights where home games are terrible, and I finally play an away game, and it's buttery smooth. Is this all coincidence?

    ANSWER: Whether the user is home or away in VS/HUT should have no impact on gameplay due to the p2p topology of the connection. From game to game there could be a variance of latency since your connection is directly to your opponent. In a small percentage of cases where restrictive NAT settings would have normally blocked a connection between 2 users, we have the ability to move the 2 users to a dedicated game server and depending on the region of both users the game could be hosted on the NA East or NA West servers.



    QUESTION: Playing in a game with a bad connection, even East Coast with an ok feeling connection has lots of issues. Is there anything we can do to change the below issues?
    a. Pucks harder to pickup
    b. Pucks always go back to the other team when dislodged
    c. hits/pokes don't work
    d. AI plays much worse than nomral
    e. Goalies, even humans, give up weaker goals than usual.

    ANSWER: The gameplay, physics, and AI behaves no differently for either team when lagging compared to a game without lag. Added latency and input delay will naturally cause user actions and input to be delayed which in itself will hinder the user’s performance on the controller.



    QUESTION: Does one player having a bad connection, or being from another region affect everyone, some of the players, just one team, or just the player with a bad connection?

    ANSWER: A user with a poor connection in an EASHL game should not impact the connection of other users in the session, regardless of whether they are on his team or the opposing team. The server will broadcast inputs to all users at a fixed interval, so the rate at which I send and receive inputs to and from the server is determined only by my connection with the server, not by the connections of other users in the session. However, a user with a poor connection will potentially be unable to play the game up to their full potential due to the delay in sending and receiving inputs, so that user lagging may affect our team chemistry or going offsides for example.



    QUESTION: I'd like to know at a very basic level how they have implemented lag compensation in EASHL and VS.
    a. Is there lag compensation in VS/EASHL (I'm assuming the answer is yes)?
    b. What is the maximum added latency on a good connection to compensate for those with bad connections?
    c. Are the lag compensation values reevaluated on a regular basis in a game, and how often (roughly), if so?

    ANSWER: I don’t believe that our title utilizes any functionality that would fall under the banner of “lag compensation”. In EASHL games, the game server will broadcast inputs to all users at a fixed interval, so if one person is lagging, only they will experience the delay. For Online Versus games, the connection is peer to peer, so any lag you experience your opponent is also experiencing.

    Thank you for braving the lion's den, and coming on here to answer our questions. I really appreciate it.

    Thank you also for answering my questions, there is a lot of interesting info in there that's finally good to know after all these years of guess work.

    I have a couple follow-ups. Regarding server location, it would be great if you would allow us to choose the server we connect to. Maybe we could have an option West/East/Europe/Auto? Any chance of getting central servers added into the mix also? I've played against lots of teams on the east server, and when we ask where they are located, they tell us central time zone.

    In regards to lag experience, can you tell me if you guys are aware of, or understand what we mean by fat guy lag? Where the game remains pretty responsive (very slight delay, not anything I can't play through), but the player you control has almost no agility, and all his tools work poorly.

    Like if you go to hit someone, your guy will execute the animation as you run into the puck carrier, but he doesn't react to the hit at all. He just slides off completely unphased by it. Or pokes go straight through the puck without affecting it at all. Puck pickup are harder. Maintaining possession is really hard as the other team seems to only need to skate near you in most cases to not only dislodge the puck but skate the other way with it all in one motion.

    The biggest symptom is just slowness in general. My guy looks and feels sluggish out there, even though on a 1-1 race, it's pretty even, there is almost no acceleration. Stopping is also terrible and seems to make you slide much further than normal.

    This fat man lag issue is the biggest for me. I'd say the vast majority of my games feel like this. Rarely, I get games that feel great, and it is like an entirely different game. If everyone that I play against gets this experience while I have fat man lag symptoms, it's a huge disadvantage.

    I don't even get that big of input delay most of the time, and almost never a game with lag spikes. It's just this dammed fat man lag that kills it for me. It especially hits in larger games. I don't think I've ever played a game of 6's without it, and so I rarely play in bigger games.
  • QUESTION: My ping usually averages 11ms, + or - , 0 packet loss, and no huge fluctuations in ping, and yet I still have games that lag terribly. Is there a reason that while the network performance monitor looks great, my game quality is not? I've had VS games in the 30s-70s that perform better than many EASHL games at 11ms

    ANSWER: While ping response time is typically the best predictor for network performance, it is not the sole determining factor for the performance in a single game, and a good ping time does not guarantee a flawless experience. If people are experiencing good ping times and poor responsiveness there could be another underlying issues we need to track down further.

    Sorry, I wanted to follow up on this one also. What other factors could determine our experience. I've gone through extensive lengths to try and improve my connection to no avail.
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Besides port forwarding, are there modem settings which should be on/off with NHL? What about IPv4 vs IPv6 etc.?
    you shouldn't have to do any settings in your router for nhl, Just make sure upnp is on that's all you need. You having any other issues with other games ? I'll guess no ! It's NHL it's been like this since the 360 days but not this bad.

    I wouldn't subscribe to this.
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