EA Forums - Banner

A Serious Issue of Lack of Defenders and What EA can do to Help

Prev1
usaalltheway1
129 posts Member
edited January 2017
Defense is hard. It's an extremely tedious task to try and shutdown a good to elite forward in NHL 17. To do so requires extreme mastery and recognition on subtle tells and understanding of leverage as well as identifying the most dangerous positions on the ice.

The truth is its a lot easier and more rewarding playing as a forward. Most people just can't handle the frustration of playing D and that it takes 3 periods of dam near perfect decisions to do your job efficiently.

The 6s community understand that it takes a team effort on D, but let's be real-- most of the people playing D aren't playing with people who play team defense. No, most Dmen are stuck playing 1on1 with a forward and it's solely up to them on that 1 on 1 battle to win it. That's a lot of pressure. I think EA can do things to help out most people brave enough to pick D .

1. Tutorial and tips- pretty self explanatory. It's my personal opinion that a tutorial and tip video will go a long way for most people who pick D to understand that by just positioning themselves in the offensive zone , neutral ice and defensive zone will go a longggg way to minimizing themselves getting caught in disadvantageous positions .

2. Make the punishment less severe - I dont want to see some clown spam poke all day and think that that's good D , those guys should get walked BUT as of right now ....there's just way too many Dmen that I see have a very difficult time stripping the winger of the puck on a consistent basis. Maybe you guys can find a middle ground where we can keep the forward honest without completey selling out with a Sticklift, poke, or hit .

3. Offense is too easy- no matter what aspect you talk about with the offense, it's undeniably true that the learning curve to master effective offense is massively lower than it is to master Defense. Offense is VERY forgiving to the user. Even when they make a mistake or even when the Defense does everything right , a forward can still find success an inordinate amount of time.

These are 3 at the top of my head that I feel will go a long way to getting more people to pick the D position and most importantly, have fun with the D position. Right now, it's a VERY TEDIOUS process that most users are reluctant to go through.

Thanks

Replies

  • Great post. I only play defense, always have and your first 3 paragraphs are spot on.

    Part of the problem I feel, is offense thinking they're better than they are. One word, turnovers. If Tom Brady threw 15 interceptions a game, Patriots lose. Same in hockey, turnover after turnover from offense leaves defense to clean up your mess and when you turn it over 15- 20 times a game (unforced), they're bound to score, now all of a sudden defense sucks. I've played on a lot of good clubs over the years and this problem even plagues them and defense quits or finds another club, rinse and repeat.

    Second, if offense played their position understanding right from left, you would have a lot more chances to make plays, but most of what I see they don't. I'm not talking dropin, this happens a lot in club, wingers just all over the place. The club I'm currently on, which is pretty good, stopped playing because lack of players that want to play defense or I'm stuck with someone who "has to play defense" because we need another dman and they all hate it.

  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    I agree with the struggles, but I think besides the things you mentioned, EA really needs to go back to the drawing board and look at

    - Bring back defensive stick sweeps
    - Fix vision control
    - Fix D-Man skating. Back-skating in particular still feels very clunky.
    - Fix puck pickups - yes I am a defensive D but a freaking NHL player should be able to pick up a puck that's in his skates, or that he skates over top of... 3 times... even though its stationary...
    - For the love of god allow D-men to make fine movements to cover a defender in front of the net or open lanes. Even if you give me a precision movement modifier button like you do for goalies. I am tired of trying to cover a guy and fighting with the thumbstick to move my guy around because the lightest movement sends him flying around. Its tedious as F.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Am I alone in thinking the grading system is too hard on defenders? I suppose I shouldn't obsess over such things, but it irritates me that my grades are usually among, if not the worst on the team, largely because I'm trying to play my position.
    Maybe the penalty for "bad line defense" could be lowered, with more importance placed on positioning. Or maybe they could add new bonuses for things like breaking up a two on one?
  • Sticks have got to stop going through players ... Make a block and a guy warps the puck through you into himself for an easy 1 on 0 chance ...

    When you poke a puck consistently it seems to go against physics and find a guy, generally the other team ...

    Players have to stop these crazy catches so defense can dump properly

    Board play is atrocious.

    Tie ups are super iffy, the game doesn't seem to know you are hitting left and holding Y then your guy skates around like a lost puppy trying to find some random guy to tie up ...

    Being able to reach a stick through a defender that has you tied up so you can tip a puck in has to stop ...

    Puck pick ups have to be improved finally, especially near the boards ... Played a game where my d man missed the puck off the face off 12/17 times , that's unacceptable, ridiculous ...

    Random penalties have to go, get a good clean hit and it's called elbowing , ya ok ...


    Coaching tips and ratings are silly as mentioned ... If you cover for a dman as a forward and they score you lose points for not being at your point, lol ya ok there dummy you praise me for one thing then trash on me for another , are you dumb oh yes you are , you are programmed by ea... That d man you covered for should take twice the negative .Same with if you get in crap for a 2 on 1 goal, umm ya ok my fault my other dman ain't playing his man , or someone made a bad give away that led to the breakaway ... But that's too much logic for ea and they should worry about gameplay not the coach criticizing silly things.
  • Dixonyu
    675 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    What I don't get us vision control doesn't allow us to always face the puck, and when we do we don't strafe , don't do anything right really , vision control seems to randomize your skating more than anything and as mentioned the small movements are hard to do, again if I hold vision control and need to move to the left I start spinning when I should side step/strafe to stay in front ... This skating engine is absolute trash ... Especially when you hit vision control to turn your guy and he spins way out of play...
  • There are some really good instructional videos on YouTube that a lot of players should watch to learn how to play good D. I consider myself a really good D and having been playing hockey for 30 plus years and I still watching them looking for tips. It is afterall video game hockey so there can be other tips that can be applied.

    I would like to see EA implement more things to help teach players playing proper D but then they have problems programming their own AI D to do so. :lol:

    To me the worst part of defense is game mechanics and automation... Poor skating ... Poor puck pick ups. Can't say how many times my guy as a dfd or TWD has reached out for a puck and failed to pick it up, meanwhile I'm trying to turn around or back skate , but the game animations stop me to reach out for a puck my player cannot pick up , then it's a breakaway or an odd man rush due to poor game mechanics ... Or you go for a stick lift , yet your guy again reaches out and misses a puck , why does the game override my controls , that's poor game mechanics set up by poor devs .

    This game needs to be as manual as possible so skill matters. There is less luck factors. And players are more accountable for their actions...


    Or how's about how many times has your d man auto put the puck in your net ? Or the goalie ? Again devs don't care about adding awareness or they simply don't know how... This is a bad dev team , and gameplay over the last two years has been getting worse , thank Ben Ross you goof.
  • That is true and are valid points that ea does need to streamline vision control and skating to definitely make D more user friendly.

    Also @zingaa1 , lol forwards can do a lot to help out . Mainly, not turn the puck over :#
  • RayFinkle1515
    352 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    I play D almost exclusively and I will agree to an extent about the problems. Skating needs more precision, vision control should square to the puck without having to release and hold down again to rotate towards the puck. The biggest gripe is the gifts that forwards straight up get. I see forwards on my own team lose pucks only to regather. The difference in puck control is laughable sometimes. Forwards can take bump after bump and poke after poke and keep regathering the puck. D men get breathed on and flail about(except DD).

    Honestly though, One thing I learned over the years, Especially when against top Forwards, slow your role. I used to think "I'm a D-man, gotta get the puck now, must strip this player right now, need to steal the puck immediately and get it up ice" but TBH Defending in 6s isn't always like that. Good forwards will win out 4 out of 5 times by either their skill or the puck possession god that is the grinder build. Sometimes you need to back off and think "I'm just here to defend, not attack" and I focus on cutting off their angles, make them slow down and dangle, slow down their progress down the ice. What will happen when you do this is you will not lose position on them at all, and a proper backchecking forward will come in and either
    A) Destroy him or B ) Strip him.

    Sometimes you just gotta slow the other guy down and that's more than enough.
  • That's what I try to do, Ray. And I get crappy grades for my trouble.
  • B_Bunny
    893 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    Who cares about the grades if you help keep the puck out of the net and shut the fwd down. Ray is totally right. There's nothing more annoying than watching a Dman just sit back and make me come to him and spam poke check - that is how EASY defense is this year compared to previous years (09-13). Speaking of 6v6 anyway.
    PSN: B-Bunny
  • Defense is clunky, frustrating, boring, under-used offensively and nothing more than the transition to pick up the puck in the D zone and pass it up RIGHT F*&*ING NOW YOU SCRUB. That's all it is.

    Forwards have more speed and control the D men. They have priority when it comes to picking up a lose puck. They can even shoot through limbs and goalies to get that goal. Any decent forward can completely mock defensemen. To add insult to injury, most forwards will never backcheck and then proceed to scream that D and goalies suck.

    Basically every drop in game is the same. Both D men are completely open and the slot is completely clogged? Well then, let's just try to force that pass in the slot; repeatedly. Add to that the clunkiness of paying D, the completely inconsistent collision detection and the downright offensive boost players get as forwards, then don't look any further. It is plainly obvious why hardly anyone wants to play D anymore.

    The game is nothing more than 3 offensive players, 2 useless D and a broken G position. Can't wait for 18 and 19 to drop.....
  • Defense is clunky, frustrating, boring, under-used offensively and nothing more than the transition to pick up the puck in the D zone and pass it up RIGHT F*&*ING NOW YOU SCRUB. That's all it is.

    Forwards have more speed and control the D men. They have priority when it comes to picking up a lose puck. They can even shoot through limbs and goalies to get that goal. Any decent forward can completely mock defensemen. To add insult to injury, most forwards will never backcheck and then proceed to scream that D and goalies suck.

    Basically every drop in game is the same. Both D men are completely open and the slot is completely clogged? Well then, let's just try to force that pass in the slot; repeatedly. Add to that the clunkiness of paying D, the completely inconsistent collision detection and the downright offensive boost players get as forwards, then don't look any further. It is plainly obvious why hardly anyone wants to play D anymore.

    The game is nothing more than 3 offensive players, 2 useless D and a broken G position. Can't wait for 18 and 19 to drop.....

    Don't forget the inept AI...
  • B_Bunny
    893 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    Defense is clunky, frustrating, boring, under-used offensively and nothing more than the transition to pick up the puck in the D zone and pass it up RIGHT F*&*ING NOW YOU SCRUB. That's all it is.

    Forwards have more speed and control the D men. They have priority when it comes to picking up a lose puck. They can even shoot through limbs and goalies to get that goal. Any decent forward can completely mock defensemen. To add insult to injury, most forwards will never backcheck and then proceed to scream that D and goalies suck.

    Basically every drop in game is the same. Both D men are completely open and the slot is completely clogged? Well then, let's just try to force that pass in the slot; repeatedly. Add to that the clunkiness of paying D, the completely inconsistent collision detection and the downright offensive boost players get as forwards, then don't look any further. It is plainly obvious why hardly anyone wants to play D anymore.

    The game is nothing more than 3 offensive players, 2 useless D and a broken G position. Can't wait for 18 and 19 to drop.....

    Yeah for dropin when you're playing with random players who care nothing about you or the team. Dropin has always been a nightmare. It's always been the joke mode, the screw around mode, thats just the nature of how its put together. But EASHL isn't like that because everyone is on the same page and wants to work together. And if they aren't, then you have a team issue.
    PSN: B-Bunny
  • megadeth_600
    1437 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    Defense is clunky, frustrating, boring, under-used offensively and nothing more than the transition to pick up the puck in the D zone and pass it up RIGHT F*&*ING NOW YOU SCRUB. That's all it is.

    Forwards have more speed and control the D men. They have priority when it comes to picking up a lose puck. They can even shoot through limbs and goalies to get that goal. Any decent forward can completely mock defensemen. To add insult to injury, most forwards will never backcheck and then proceed to scream that D and goalies suck.

    Basically every drop in game is the same. Both D men are completely open and the slot is completely clogged? Well then, let's just try to force that pass in the slot; repeatedly. Add to that the clunkiness of paying D, the completely inconsistent collision detection and the downright offensive boost players get as forwards, then don't look any further. It is plainly obvious why hardly anyone wants to play D anymore.

    The game is nothing more than 3 offensive players, 2 useless D and a broken G position. Can't wait for 18 and 19 to drop.....

    Yeah for dropin when you're playing with random players who care nothing about you or the team. Dropin has always been a nightmare. It's always been the joke mode, the screw around mode, thats just the nature of how its put together. But EASHL isn't like that because everyone is on the same page and wants to work together. And if they aren't, then you have a team issue.

    Of course I will agree with you for dropins. However, it still does not negate the fact that decent forwards can screw D men all day long. Hold out the stick to negate checks or attract tripping calls. Hold stick out passed the boards (as it was in 16, btw). Or just a simple deke and have the game actually pull you automatically away from a d man. Please, don't insult me by trying to downplay this fact. And regardless which mode you play, G is still broken....

    So again, it is nothing more than 3 forwards, 2 pylons and a broken G.
  • The_B_0_G
    593 posts Member
    edited January 2017
    It is easy to close the gap and stay in front of a forward, I can stop pretty much everyone 1vs 1 but all they really have to do is drop pass it and start the cycle; then you're running around trying to keep your man covered that is randomly circling back and forth.

    Thats when the broken vision control and inconsistent pass interceptions kill playing any type of shut down defense.
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    Defense is clunky, frustrating, boring, under-used offensively and nothing more than the transition to pick up the puck in the D zone and pass it up RIGHT F*&*ING NOW YOU SCRUB. That's all it is.

    Forwards have more speed and control the D men. They have priority when it comes to picking up a lose puck. They can even shoot through limbs and goalies to get that goal. Any decent forward can completely mock defensemen. To add insult to injury, most forwards will never backcheck and then proceed to scream that D and goalies suck.

    Basically every drop in game is the same. Both D men are completely open and the slot is completely clogged? Well then, let's just try to force that pass in the slot; repeatedly. Add to that the clunkiness of paying D, the completely inconsistent collision detection and the downright offensive boost players get as forwards, then don't look any further. It is plainly obvious why hardly anyone wants to play D anymore.

    The game is nothing more than 3 offensive players, 2 useless D and a broken G position. Can't wait for 18 and 19 to drop.....

    Yeah for dropin when you're playing with random players who care nothing about you or the team. Dropin has always been a nightmare. It's always been the joke mode, the screw around mode, thats just the nature of how its put together. But EASHL isn't like that because everyone is on the same page and wants to work together. And if they aren't, then you have a team issue.

    Of course I will agree with you for dropins. However, it still does not negate the fact that decent forwards can screw D men all day long. Hold out the stick to negate checks or attract tripping calls. Hold stick out passed the boards (as it was in 16, btw). Or just a simple deke and have the game actually pull you automatically away from a d man. Please, don't insult me by trying to downplay this fact. And regardless which mode you play, G is still broken....

    So again, it is nothing more than 3 forwards, 2 pylons and a broken G.

    I wouldn't call them pylons, although I'd say 9/10 people don't play D correctly. G is indeed broken though.
    PSN: B-Bunny
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    Defense is clunky, frustrating, boring, under-used offensively and nothing more than the transition to pick up the puck in the D zone and pass it up RIGHT F*&*ING NOW YOU SCRUB. That's all it is.

    Forwards have more speed and control the D men. They have priority when it comes to picking up a lose puck. They can even shoot through limbs and goalies to get that goal. Any decent forward can completely mock defensemen. To add insult to injury, most forwards will never backcheck and then proceed to scream that D and goalies suck.

    Basically every drop in game is the same. Both D men are completely open and the slot is completely clogged? Well then, let's just try to force that pass in the slot; repeatedly. Add to that the clunkiness of paying D, the completely inconsistent collision detection and the downright offensive boost players get as forwards, then don't look any further. It is plainly obvious why hardly anyone wants to play D anymore.

    The game is nothing more than 3 offensive players, 2 useless D and a broken G position. Can't wait for 18 and 19 to drop.....

    Yeah for dropin when you're playing with random players who care nothing about you or the team. Dropin has always been a nightmare. It's always been the joke mode, the screw around mode, thats just the nature of how its put together. But EASHL isn't like that because everyone is on the same page and wants to work together. And if they aren't, then you have a team issue.

    Of course I will agree with you for dropins. However, it still does not negate the fact that decent forwards can screw D men all day long. Hold out the stick to negate checks or attract tripping calls. Hold stick out passed the boards (as it was in 16, btw). Or just a simple deke and have the game actually pull you automatically away from a d man. Please, don't insult me by trying to downplay this fact. And regardless which mode you play, G is still broken....

    So again, it is nothing more than 3 forwards, 2 pylons and a broken G.

    I wouldn't call them pylons, although I'd say 9/10 people don't play D correctly. G is indeed broken though.
    I would be down for OP human Goalies come '18. Why not right. Bout time the year of the goalie returns. Faster whistles for pucks under the goalies pads. Better rebound control. Quicker reflexes.
  • ToddJones8 wrote: »
    Am I alone in thinking the grading system is too hard on defenders? I suppose I shouldn't obsess over such things, but it irritates me that my grades are usually among, if not the worst on the team, largely because I'm trying to play my position.
    Maybe the penalty for "bad line defense" could be lowered, with more importance placed on positioning. Or maybe they could add new bonuses for things like breaking up a two on one?
    Nope

    I will own my own screwups but I hate getting penalized for the screwups of others. Examples:

    - Forward skates all around the offensive zone with the puck instead of passing it, turns it over just inside the blue line. I get odd man rush
    - D partner not playing their position properly, I hustle back on a breakaway and no one else does: Odd Man Rush
    - Getting a coverage negative when the dude who scored was on the other D-mans side

    Also, there are broken things. I have gotten an odd man "rush" when there was no rush.

    I am sure there are other things.

    I'd be happy to own my mistakes, but I think they need to eliminate the bugs in the feedback.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.