Preset builds were coming whether there were gamechangers or not lol. Remember that little survey that went out years ago about progression or balance? Yeah..
Yeah, this is my point. Apparently **** can't keep up intellectually. Bummer. He has so much passion...
So instead of taking shots at my intellect, refute my points.
and as far as Bunny's survey... you mean the one where people could vote over and over on the old forums?
What difference does it make who I blame? EA is making the game. Not you. Not me. Not "LGMacdonald". You don't like that fact that I point out that pre-set builds make managing and running a 3rd party league site easier or more desirable, tough.
Nor do I care to be a member of the 3000 strong split across multiple consoles.
Preset builds were coming whether there were gamechangers or not lol. Remember that little survey that went out years ago about progression or balance? Yeah..
Yeah, this is my point. Apparently **** can't keep up intellectually. Bummer. He has so much passion...
So instead of taking shots at my intellect, refute my points.
and as far as Bunny's survey... you mean the one where people could vote over and over on the old forums?
What difference does it make who I blame? EA is making the game. Not you. Not me. Not "LGMacdonald". You don't like that fact that I point out that pre-set builds make managing and running a 3rd party league site easier or more desirable, tough.
Nor do I care to be a member of the 3000 strong split across multiple consoles.
Are you picking up on my marketing sarcasm, EA?
No, It was an emailed survey by EA to their NHL customers with way more than 100 votes, not just those who view the forums for 2 days.
I don't deny that EA was bringing preset player classes whether we liked it or not, and I don't think they did it to cater to the 1% of players who play organized leagues, but the survey from a few years ago never mentioned preset player classes.
It would be interesting to see the results of another survey that covered this ongoing debate.
Do more people prefer the level playing field or artificial boosting of player stats?
Do more people prefer Preset or Custom attributes?
I would guess the winning combo in such a survey would be level playing field custom attributes.
Preset builds were coming whether there were gamechangers or not lol. Remember that little survey that went out years ago about progression or balance? Yeah..
Yeah, this is my point. Apparently **** can't keep up intellectually. Bummer. He has so much passion...
So instead of taking shots at my intellect, refute my points.
and as far as Bunny's survey... you mean the one where people could vote over and over on the old forums?
What difference does it make who I blame? EA is making the game. Not you. Not me. Not "LGMacdonald". You don't like that fact that I point out that pre-set builds make managing and running a 3rd party league site easier or more desirable, tough.
Nor do I care to be a member of the 3000 strong split across multiple consoles.
Are you picking up on my marketing sarcasm, EA?
No, It was an emailed survey by EA to their NHL customers, not just those who view the forums for 2 days with way more than 100 votes.
OK so when you said "Remember that little survey that went out years ago about progression or balance? Yeah" then no, I don't remember that survey. Didn't get it.
So how many people did it go out to and what were the results?
who **** cares, just fix all the broke gameplay issues, fix the **** servers/netcode/whatever, create some kind of community and ALL the problems with this game pretty much go away.
of course that has been the answer for 5+ years and all that has happened is every area of that has gotten worse.
Preset builds were coming whether there were gamechangers or not lol. Remember that little survey that went out years ago about progression or balance? Yeah..
Yeah, this is my point. Apparently **** can't keep up intellectually. Bummer. He has so much passion...
So instead of taking shots at my intellect, refute my points.
and as far as Bunny's survey... you mean the one where people could vote over and over on the old forums?
What difference does it make who I blame? EA is making the game. Not you. Not me. Not "LGMacdonald". You don't like that fact that I point out that pre-set builds make managing and running a 3rd party league site easier or more desirable, tough.
Nor do I care to be a member of the 3000 strong split across multiple consoles.
Are you picking up on my marketing sarcasm, EA?
No, It was an emailed survey by EA to their NHL customers, not just those who view the forums for 2 days with way more than 100 votes.
OK so when you said "Remember that little survey that went out years ago about progression or balance? Yeah" then no, I don't remember that survey. Didn't get it.
So how many people did it go out to and what were the results?
I don't have it anymore, it was years ago but it was posted somewhere online back then. A lot.
I don't deny that EA was bringing preset player classes whether we liked it or not, and I don't think they did it to cater to the 1% of players who play organized leagues, but the survey from a few years ago never mentioned preset player classes.
It would be interesting to see the results of another survey that covered this ongoing debate.
Do more people prefer the level playing field or artificial boosting of player stats?
Do more people prefer Preset or Custom attributes?
I would guess the winning combo in such a survey would be level playing field custom attributes.
I'm sure it's a lot more than 1% who play in competitive leagues eh bud. Where are your numbers and facts to back that up? Eh bud.
What relevance does this have to his point, tho?
From what I am reading, it's 3000 users across multiple consoles. We're not talking a massive number when it comes to percentage of sales.
This new system is also why most of the drop in 6v6 games you play end up being 6v2 by the end of the game, theres no incentive to stay in the game, or punishment for leaving. (1)
I think the reason a lot of guys don't like the old system isn't because of the amount of games you need to play, but the amount of skill needed to keep your grades up.(2)
1) I don't think the class system inherently makes this true... for one, not everyone cared about grades, I certainly recall a lot more griefing in the game under the card system. TBH I am not sure I care about punishment for quitting early. Lots of times I stayed in terrible games just to get my grades... but is that necessarily a good thing? I play videogames to have fun. If my drop-in team (or the opposition) is filled with a bunch of griefing morons, I dont want to be punished for that by having to stay in to get a stupid grade. Conversely, I am happy for our club to take a win because we are beating the other team so badly they quit.
If you want to punish anyone, punish the people who play like ****. And provide more in game and in-practice coaching and teaching for people who are genuinely trying.
For another, the unlockables they replaced the boosts with just weren't meaningful enough for some people, which btw I totally understand. But that isn't a problem intrinsic to the class system.
2) I wasn't the best out there, but I wasn't terrible either. For me, and many others, what I hated was always that slog I had to endure to get my teamplay to A- after I already had the required number of games for Legend 3 .
You're right, some people did troll, probably mostly when they got their L3, but I find that last year and this year is the worst for people quitting after one goal. 6v6 matches that you're winning regularly turn into matches against the AI and you usually see a huge come back.
As far as the teamplay went it was a bit of a grind, but as of now team play isn't so hard to A+, don't turn the puck over and land a few hits and you have an A+ this year.
I don't deny that EA was bringing preset player classes whether we liked it or not, and I don't think they did it to cater to the 1% of players who play organized leagues, but the survey from a few years ago never mentioned preset player classes.
It would be interesting to see the results of another survey that covered this ongoing debate.
Do more people prefer the level playing field or artificial boosting of player stats?
Do more people prefer Preset or Custom attributes?
I would guess the winning combo in such a survey would be level playing field custom attributes.
I'm sure it's a lot more than 1% who play in competitive leagues eh bud. Where are your numbers and facts to back that up? Eh bud.
What relevance does this have to his point, tho?
From what I am reading, it's 3000 users across multiple consoles. We're not talking a massive number when it comes to percentage of sales.
"Nothing is relevant unless it helps my case (ex. my made-up, useless facts). EASHL is dead because of E-ATHLETES!!!! LG TUK R CUzTimZShun!!! EASHL needs to cater to me and my friends group, otherwise it is the literal worst thing ever. ALL YOU E-ATHLETES RUINED MY FUN!!! I can't win games anymore without my 15+ overall difference between me and the Christmas noob. Thanks for RUINING NHL, you E-ATHLETES!!! I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO COMPROMISE, LoL SYTEM IS STUPID CUZ IT'S NOT EXACTLY WHAT I WANT! THIS IS NO DISCUSHUN, MY WAY IS ALWAYS RIGHT! WHERE'S MY SURVEY!? I WASN'T DIRECTLY INVOLVED INT HE DICISHUN, Wut IS EA DEV DOING!? I am the MOST important voice in this community!!!"
-Floggins
You OK over there? The pressure of not being able to articulate a proper response making you crack?
And point me to where I ever said that I don't understand your position on the matter.
Attack away.
ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining
I think you are still trying to satisfy the smaller audience of the game. Seriously doubt majority wants to play your arcade style pick a build hockey. I know i dont. Bring back creating individual builds.
pretty sure my comment got deleted by some gimp of a moderator but yh the game needs customisation people need freedom to be able to play there own style i cant dictate how i play with pre set builds, pre set attributes that are capped and i can freely move on pre set builds would be good as well as making ur own height weight skate n stick id agree to that
The player classes beat what they used to have for attributes by a long shot. if they had redone attributes right, fixed TPS and make attributes matter more, then maybe a custom attribute system would work but id take the classes any day over what we used to have.
As far as the argument that players quit now that they dont need to unlock legend...thats dumb. There are so many solutions to mitigate quitting (you cant fully stop players from quitting but you can help). prevent them to play any other online modes (ANY, not just club) for the duration of the match they quit. Allow rejoin options to re-connect when you lose connection. Impose soft bans from online for repeat quitting. IE: you quit 4 games out of 5 you get a day ban or something. You can make specific gear or nameplates or whatever other type of customization only available using a legend card and re-introduce the cards without the custom stats. you can reward players who have a low disconnect rate of games by giving them free packs or pucks for HUT for each month they maintain a low disconnect percentage (say 5% or less). Those with bad connection dont lose anything, they just dont get extras.
You can have filters when searching for games to not put you against a team who has players with more than 20% disconnect percentages....so players who disconnect a lot would eventually only be able to play each other (this could be reset each month to allow for players to improve their behaviors). Also make the quitting percentage visible...badge of shame.
As far as the teamplay went it was a bit of a grind, but as of now team play isn't so hard to A+, don't turn the puck over and land a few hits and you have an A+ this year.
Yes I do agree its easier to get good teamplay grades now than back then.
The player classes beat what they used to have for attributes by a long shot. if they had redone attributes right, fixed TPS and make attributes matter more, then maybe a custom attribute system would work but id take the classes any day over what we used to have.
As far as the argument that players quit now that they dont need to unlock legend...thats dumb. There are so many solutions to mitigate quitting (you cant fully stop players from quitting but you can help). prevent them to play any other online modes (ANY, not just club) for the duration of the match they quit. Allow rejoin options to re-connect when you lose connection. Impose soft bans from online for repeat quitting. IE: you quit 4 games out of 5 you get a day ban or something. You can make specific gear or nameplates or whatever other type of customization only available using a legend card and re-introduce the cards without the custom stats. you can reward players who have a low disconnect rate of games by giving them free packs or pucks for HUT for each month they maintain a low disconnect percentage (say 5% or less). Those with bad connection dont lose anything, they just dont get extras.
You can have filters when searching for games to not put you against a team who has players with more than 20% disconnect percentages....so players who disconnect a lot would eventually only be able to play each other (this could be reset each month to allow for players to improve their behaviors). Also make the quitting percentage visible...badge of shame.
Agreed on all this.
This is what I've been talking around in various topics (some older ones particularly): The class system itself as an idea isn't inherently bad.
People may have some issues with its implementation, but that doesnt make the idea itself bad (necessarily). This is why I have asked people to articulate exactly what problem they think they want addressed when they keep shouting "bring back attributes/cards/player progression". Some folks, when you provide alternative ideas, and pin them down for a specific answer on the "why" , start flip-flopping on why they even want this.
I want everyone to have their cake and eat it to. I think that classes, a meaningful progression system, player attribute customization, weeding out quitters and griefers - this can all exist in one game. People just need to open their minds a bit to the possibility that it doesnt have to be just "Cards or Classes"
Yah I agree its a great thread. its a true meaningful discussion as people throw ideas for and against and how to improve each systems. Maybe a hybrid system could be an option too.
I mean, take RPG games for instance....some people love (many people in fact) games like skyrim where you are given no particular class, just points, and you basically make your own class....I hate that system because I feel like it takes away from the good ol class system in games like D&D. People all end up making good at everything classes and so on. I prefer picking a specific class such as mage/cleric/fighter/etc and levelling that and maybe choosing spells or spell specializations within that class. Then the roles are clearly defined...im the mage...you are the tank.....im no mage tank and you are a mage healer tank and so on. But this also shows that different people like different things so its no different here.
I still feel like the class system in this game has one huge benefit of being simpler to balance for the devs.
I dont know if people realize the impact that various balance change have on a custom system....IE: maybe your system is balanced until you make poke less effective and ballerina become more powerful and now everyone go back to 99agi/speed/dangling. Accuracy not as effective due an exploit with curve shots? Boom! nobody wastes a point in accuracy anymore and are no longer penalized for not doing so and they can stack other stats....so on so forth. Its not JUST the attributes impact on players its also the core mechanics of the game that need to be fine tuned to make a custom attribute system to work well patch after patch.
What I think could help is making a strict CR rating for drop ins, set it at say...500...if you're not at that level you only match up with 499 or less.
It's not a "fix it all" but it could help.
Replies
So instead of taking shots at my intellect, refute my points.
and as far as Bunny's survey... you mean the one where people could vote over and over on the old forums?
I mean, here is another survey:
https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/80662/should-ea-bring-back-progressive-player-attributes-for-eashl/p1
so like i said:
What difference does it make who I blame? EA is making the game. Not you. Not me. Not "LGMacdonald". You don't like that fact that I point out that pre-set builds make managing and running a 3rd party league site easier or more desirable, tough.
Nor do I care to be a member of the 3000 strong split across multiple consoles.
Are you picking up on my marketing sarcasm, EA?
No, It was an emailed survey by EA to their NHL customers with way more than 100 votes, not just those who view the forums for 2 days.
It would be interesting to see the results of another survey that covered this ongoing debate.
Do more people prefer the level playing field or artificial boosting of player stats?
Do more people prefer Preset or Custom attributes?
I would guess the winning combo in such a survey would be level playing field custom attributes.
OK so when you said "Remember that little survey that went out years ago about progression or balance? Yeah" then no, I don't remember that survey. Didn't get it.
So how many people did it go out to and what were the results?
of course that has been the answer for 5+ years and all that has happened is every area of that has gotten worse.
I don't have it anymore, it was years ago but it was posted somewhere online back then. A lot.
What relevance does this have to his point, tho?
From what I am reading, it's 3000 users across multiple consoles. We're not talking a massive number when it comes to percentage of sales.
You're right, some people did troll, probably mostly when they got their L3, but I find that last year and this year is the worst for people quitting after one goal. 6v6 matches that you're winning regularly turn into matches against the AI and you usually see a huge come back.
As far as the teamplay went it was a bit of a grind, but as of now team play isn't so hard to A+, don't turn the puck over and land a few hits and you have an A+ this year.
You OK over there? The pressure of not being able to articulate a proper response making you crack?
And point me to where I ever said that I don't understand your position on the matter.
Attack away.
ad ho·mi·nem
ˌad ˈhämənəm/
adverb & adjective
1. (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining
As far as the argument that players quit now that they dont need to unlock legend...thats dumb. There are so many solutions to mitigate quitting (you cant fully stop players from quitting but you can help). prevent them to play any other online modes (ANY, not just club) for the duration of the match they quit. Allow rejoin options to re-connect when you lose connection. Impose soft bans from online for repeat quitting. IE: you quit 4 games out of 5 you get a day ban or something. You can make specific gear or nameplates or whatever other type of customization only available using a legend card and re-introduce the cards without the custom stats. you can reward players who have a low disconnect rate of games by giving them free packs or pucks for HUT for each month they maintain a low disconnect percentage (say 5% or less). Those with bad connection dont lose anything, they just dont get extras.
You can have filters when searching for games to not put you against a team who has players with more than 20% disconnect percentages....so players who disconnect a lot would eventually only be able to play each other (this could be reset each month to allow for players to improve their behaviors). Also make the quitting percentage visible...badge of shame.
Yes I do agree its easier to get good teamplay grades now than back then.
Agreed on all this.
This is what I've been talking around in various topics (some older ones particularly): The class system itself as an idea isn't inherently bad.
People may have some issues with its implementation, but that doesnt make the idea itself bad (necessarily). This is why I have asked people to articulate exactly what problem they think they want addressed when they keep shouting "bring back attributes/cards/player progression". Some folks, when you provide alternative ideas, and pin them down for a specific answer on the "why" , start flip-flopping on why they even want this.
I want everyone to have their cake and eat it to. I think that classes, a meaningful progression system, player attribute customization, weeding out quitters and griefers - this can all exist in one game. People just need to open their minds a bit to the possibility that it doesnt have to be just "Cards or Classes"
I mean, take RPG games for instance....some people love (many people in fact) games like skyrim where you are given no particular class, just points, and you basically make your own class....I hate that system because I feel like it takes away from the good ol class system in games like D&D. People all end up making good at everything classes and so on. I prefer picking a specific class such as mage/cleric/fighter/etc and levelling that and maybe choosing spells or spell specializations within that class. Then the roles are clearly defined...im the mage...you are the tank.....im no mage tank and you are a mage healer tank and so on. But this also shows that different people like different things so its no different here.
I still feel like the class system in this game has one huge benefit of being simpler to balance for the devs.
I dont know if people realize the impact that various balance change have on a custom system....IE: maybe your system is balanced until you make poke less effective and ballerina become more powerful and now everyone go back to 99agi/speed/dangling. Accuracy not as effective due an exploit with curve shots? Boom! nobody wastes a point in accuracy anymore and are no longer penalized for not doing so and they can stack other stats....so on so forth. Its not JUST the attributes impact on players its also the core mechanics of the game that need to be fine tuned to make a custom attribute system to work well patch after patch.
It's not a "fix it all" but it could help.