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NHL 18 EASHL

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  • Folks like B-Bunny don't seem to realize that it's possible to disagree on "something to play for"...

    For me, the "something to play for" is fun, team-oriented hockey.

    I don't care about unlocks, points, etc. I enjoy *playing the game* (when it's good).

    If this game were more rewarding of solid team play and less rewarding of exploiting weaknesses in the engine (especially with CPU goalies), then maybe more people would enjoy just playing the game more and not need "something to play for" like arbitrary / made up points/cards.

    Regarding the "Play 6's" argument: First and foremost, my goal is to hang out with actual friends and play this game. That means sometimes we've got 3 guys and sometimes we've got 8 and 2 have to sit. We can't always play 6's. Secondly, there are still flaws in the game that get exploited even in 6's games. The actual logistics (for people with a fair amount of commitments besides playing video games, anyway) of getting exactly 6 players for every game is harder than you think when you're not a kid with nothing but free time. Being married with a demanding job and other obligations means that my free time is scarce and my time for gameplay is dictated by the rest of my life, not the other way around.

    6s wont ever catch on as "THE EASHL mode" until EA makes good 6s gameplay possible without using external sites to organize.

    Something like Drop-In Seasons would be a step in this direction. Id be more likely to play Drop Ins if the more I played it, the more competitive a crowd I'd be matched with. Even if that means waiting 10 minutes for a East Coast Div 1 Drop-In, its better than the mess Drop-Ins are now.

    (re) Joining Games in Progress also needs to be implemented.

    Otherwise, exactly what honestbleeps' said, we have our crews that we like to play with. Could be just 2 of us, rarely 6 of us. That statistics and ranks aren't even separated between 2s and 5s really pushes EASHL as a 2v2 game.

    I can get behind this idea.

    I would much rather see comments like "eLiTe div 1 dRop INs CenTr looKing 4 pArTY of Gud plAYerZ" than the old 1000 GP 4000 G 900 A comments. I'm serious.

    Honestly, like Moose here says, there is no real incentive to play as a 6s club for the casual because of how hard it is to match up with other 6s clubs at times. By the time you finish a 6s game (assuming everyone makes it into the match in the first place) the 2s club has played 3 games and is getting ready to jump into a 4th game, nullifying the 6s game xp bonus for your club.
  • Folks like B-Bunny don't seem to realize that it's possible to disagree on "something to play for"...

    For me, the "something to play for" is fun, team-oriented hockey.

    I don't care about unlocks, points, etc. I enjoy *playing the game* (when it's good).

    If this game were more rewarding of solid team play and less rewarding of exploiting weaknesses in the engine (especially with CPU goalies), then maybe more people would enjoy just playing the game more and not need "something to play for" like arbitrary / made up points/cards.

    Regarding the "Play 6's" argument: First and foremost, my goal is to hang out with actual friends and play this game. That means sometimes we've got 3 guys and sometimes we've got 8 and 2 have to sit. We can't always play 6's. Secondly, there are still flaws in the game that get exploited even in 6's games. The actual logistics (for people with a fair amount of commitments besides playing video games, anyway) of getting exactly 6 players for every game is harder than you think when you're not a kid with nothing but free time. Being married with a demanding job and other obligations means that my free time is scarce and my time for gameplay is dictated by the rest of my life, not the other way around.

    That about sums up my position. I'm sure I could "go pro" and play 6's in LG if I could count on having a regular schedule with gaming being a decent sized chunk of time. Unfortunately I have a good job in IT that requires flexible hours with on-call support and regular after-hours maintenance, so I'm stuck playing when I have the time available. That might be multiple hours a day some weeks, and maybe I go almost a month without playing on others.

    I just want to be able to play 4-8 games in a row without having a game where the other team wins despite being outplayed by a wide margin, having to worry about teams going for garbage rebound goals and other things of that nature, watching your skater completely miss on plays that you saw coming, or having unresponsive controls that don't allow you to move the way you know an NHL skater can. The last few releases haven't been able to do that though, and until we can, most of my club simply isn't going to play the game.
  • SaveUs2K wrote: »
    TRICL0PS wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    TRICL0PS wrote: »
    People can argue over whether or not the class system is balanced but it is, without a doubt, more balanced than the customizable builds ever were.

    Wrong. Each skater class has less speed than old gen. Just an illusion.

    It strikes me that these two things may not be mutually exclusive?

    Care to elaborate?
    Each skater class may be slower than the old gen but that fact doesn't inherently imbalance the game. In fact (as I believe someone noted) it is probably is the opposite: the game is TOO balanced - not enough differentiation between classes and the offsetting skills between the skills for attackers and defenders.
    Yeah, not sure how all player types having the same speed makes the game less balanced. That doesn't make any sense. It also doesn't make sense that the game is too balanced because of the player classes either, IMO. I feel like there are enough unique differences between the classes that force players to choose one over the other. Grinders can't deke like danglers, two way forwards can't pass like playmakers, snipers can't hit like power forwards, etc. Sure, the newer player types (jumbo playmaker, two way dangler, hitting sniper, etc.) are more similar to the older types with only slight variations but they are just options for people who fall more in between with their play styles. All classes have their speed, acceleration, and agility the same but they differ in height and weight and that absolutely affects how each class skates.

    If the classes are all so similar then why isn't everyone just using the best all around class every game? Is there even a best class? I see more player type variety in NHL 17 than I ever did with custom builds.

    This isn't true. There's not a big enough gap between the enforcer builds deking and a playmaker's. Good people can easily play 6s with enforcers. That's a problem. Should not be a viable class for scoring, passing, or shooting. Right now, it is.

    Oh yea, back at the beginning of the year it was pretty common for my club to all pick enforcers and goon it up for a few games. To our surprise, we could still dangle and snipe nearly as well as we could with many of the other builds.
  • i've said it before and i'll say it again, eashl won't grow more until EA finds a way to create an actual NHL community
  • SaveUs2K wrote: »
    TRICL0PS wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    TRICL0PS wrote: »
    People can argue over whether or not the class system is balanced but it is, without a doubt, more balanced than the customizable builds ever were.

    Wrong. Each skater class has less speed than old gen. Just an illusion.

    It strikes me that these two things may not be mutually exclusive?

    Care to elaborate?
    Each skater class may be slower than the old gen but that fact doesn't inherently imbalance the game. In fact (as I believe someone noted) it is probably is the opposite: the game is TOO balanced - not enough differentiation between classes and the offsetting skills between the skills for attackers and defenders.
    Yeah, not sure how all player types having the same speed makes the game less balanced. That doesn't make any sense. It also doesn't make sense that the game is too balanced because of the player classes either, IMO. I feel like there are enough unique differences between the classes that force players to choose one over the other. Grinders can't deke like danglers, two way forwards can't pass like playmakers, snipers can't hit like power forwards, etc. Sure, the newer player types (jumbo playmaker, two way dangler, hitting sniper, etc.) are more similar to the older types with only slight variations but they are just options for people who fall more in between with their play styles. All classes have their speed, acceleration, and agility the same but they differ in height and weight and that absolutely affects how each class skates.

    If the classes are all so similar then why isn't everyone just using the best all around class every game? Is there even a best class? I see more player type variety in NHL 17 than I ever did with custom builds.

    This isn't true. There's not a big enough gap between the enforcer builds deking and a playmaker's. Good people can easily play 6s with enforcers. That's a problem. Should not be a viable class for scoring, passing, or shooting. Right now, it is.
    Personally, I've never used enforcer and I rarely see anyone use it. Most of the time I've played with people using it they were horrible offensively, though. Just because good players can score with a less offensive class in 6s doesn't mean the build or the entire system is broken.
  • SaveUs2K wrote: »
    TRICL0PS wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    TRICL0PS wrote: »
    People can argue over whether or not the class system is balanced but it is, without a doubt, more balanced than the customizable builds ever were.

    Wrong. Each skater class has less speed than old gen. Just an illusion.

    It strikes me that these two things may not be mutually exclusive?

    Care to elaborate?
    Each skater class may be slower than the old gen but that fact doesn't inherently imbalance the game. In fact (as I believe someone noted) it is probably is the opposite: the game is TOO balanced - not enough differentiation between classes and the offsetting skills between the skills for attackers and defenders.
    Yeah, not sure how all player types having the same speed makes the game less balanced. That doesn't make any sense. It also doesn't make sense that the game is too balanced because of the player classes either, IMO. I feel like there are enough unique differences between the classes that force players to choose one over the other. Grinders can't deke like danglers, two way forwards can't pass like playmakers, snipers can't hit like power forwards, etc. Sure, the newer player types (jumbo playmaker, two way dangler, hitting sniper, etc.) are more similar to the older types with only slight variations but they are just options for people who fall more in between with their play styles. All classes have their speed, acceleration, and agility the same but they differ in height and weight and that absolutely affects how each class skates.

    If the classes are all so similar then why isn't everyone just using the best all around class every game? Is there even a best class? I see more player type variety in NHL 17 than I ever did with custom builds.

    This isn't true. There's not a big enough gap between the enforcer builds deking and a playmaker's. Good people can easily play 6s with enforcers. That's a problem. Should not be a viable class for scoring, passing, or shooting. Right now, it is.

    Yeah it doesn't really matter what preset build anyone uses which shows the attributes are still broken or don't make enough of a difference as the existing customization did.

  • agreed, because the attribute system is basically broken the most important factors are height, weight, strength, i think somewhat hands matter as well. the primary attributes of hockey are skating, passing and shooting and yet there's no real difference between any of the classes on these. Then it basically becomes what's the biggest player you are comfortable playing with (since size seems to dictate agility ).

    i could be wrong but from my experience amongst good FWDs, grinder is by far the most popular with a mix of pfwd, twfwd and sometimes enforcer being in that second tier of popularity.

    i think on defense it's a little more spread out. i would bet twd is the most popular. although i usually use defd and have no problems skating/passing/shooting.

    thats the biggest problem, those 3 things, the heart and soul of what makes up hockey, basically are all the same for all classes.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited July 2017
    That about sums up my position. I'm sure I could "go pro" and play 6's in LG if I could count on having a regular schedule with gaming being a decent sized chunk of time. Unfortunately I have a good job in IT that requires flexible hours with on-call support and regular after-hours maintenance, so I'm stuck playing when I have the time available. That might be multiple hours a day some weeks, and maybe I go almost a month without playing on others.

    I just want to be able to play 4-8 games in a row without having a game where the other team wins despite being outplayed by a wide margin, having to worry about teams going for garbage rebound goals and other things of that nature, watching your skater completely miss on plays that you saw coming, or having unresponsive controls that don't allow you to move the way you know an NHL skater can. The last few releases haven't been able to do that though, and until we can, most of my club simply isn't going to play the game.

    This is my story also; just substitute the bolded part with having a kid, getting in shape and rehearsing and playing in a band. It sux.

    Out of curiosity what kind of time commitment is to play in these league gaming clubs? What is it like?
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • IceLion68 wrote: »
    That about sums up my position. I'm sure I could "go pro" and play 6's in LG if I could count on having a regular schedule with gaming being a decent sized chunk of time. Unfortunately I have a good job in IT that requires flexible hours with on-call support and regular after-hours maintenance, so I'm stuck playing when I have the time available. That might be multiple hours a day some weeks, and maybe I go almost a month without playing on others.

    I just want to be able to play 4-8 games in a row without having a game where the other team wins despite being outplayed by a wide margin, having to worry about teams going for garbage rebound goals and other things of that nature, watching your skater completely miss on plays that you saw coming, or having unresponsive controls that don't allow you to move the way you know an NHL skater can. The last few releases haven't been able to do that though, and until we can, most of my club simply isn't going to play the game.

    This is my story also; just substitute the bolded part with having a kid, getting in shape and rehearsing and playing in a band. It sux.

    Out of curiosity what kind of time commitment is to play in these league gaming clubs? What is it like?

    Last time i checked, it was three games a week, and the games were only scheduled for weekdays.

    LG has times for the games set to 8, 9, 10 pm in case of long overtimes and whatnot. In addition, the 11 pm slot is reserved for previous games that need to be rescheduled due to EA server outages or other circumstances where both teams cannot field 6 players.

    Depending on how serious your owner is, they may want you to join part time on an LG branded EASHL team so you don't get embarrased week in and week out by teams that actually practice.

    At that point, it is more of a case-by-case basis.
  • SaveUs2K wrote: »
    TRICL0PS wrote: »
    SaveUs2K wrote: »
    TRICL0PS wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    TRICL0PS wrote: »
    People can argue over whether or not the class system is balanced but it is, without a doubt, more balanced than the customizable builds ever were.

    Wrong. Each skater class has less speed than old gen. Just an illusion.

    It strikes me that these two things may not be mutually exclusive?

    Care to elaborate?
    Each skater class may be slower than the old gen but that fact doesn't inherently imbalance the game. In fact (as I believe someone noted) it is probably is the opposite: the game is TOO balanced - not enough differentiation between classes and the offsetting skills between the skills for attackers and defenders.
    Yeah, not sure how all player types having the same speed makes the game less balanced. That doesn't make any sense. It also doesn't make sense that the game is too balanced because of the player classes either, IMO. I feel like there are enough unique differences between the classes that force players to choose one over the other. Grinders can't deke like danglers, two way forwards can't pass like playmakers, snipers can't hit like power forwards, etc. Sure, the newer player types (jumbo playmaker, two way dangler, hitting sniper, etc.) are more similar to the older types with only slight variations but they are just options for people who fall more in between with their play styles. All classes have their speed, acceleration, and agility the same but they differ in height and weight and that absolutely affects how each class skates.

    If the classes are all so similar then why isn't everyone just using the best all around class every game? Is there even a best class? I see more player type variety in NHL 17 than I ever did with custom builds.

    This isn't true. There's not a big enough gap between the enforcer builds deking and a playmaker's. Good people can easily play 6s with enforcers. That's a problem. Should not be a viable class for scoring, passing, or shooting. Right now, it is.
    Personally, I've never used enforcer and I rarely see anyone use it. Most of the time I've played with people using it they were horrible offensively, though. Just because good players can score with a less offensive class in 6s doesn't mean the build or the entire system is broken.

    The entire system is executed poorly. I'm all for the class system, but I want people to actually have to play the role they picked to be successful. There's many guys in LG that are great with puck protection, leading the rush, carrying into the offensive zone, and the enforcer is the best class for their playstyle.

    Now, when I mentioned those skills (puck possession/poise, carrying the puck, quarterbacking breakouts) did John Scott come to mind? Of course not. So why does the game allow that to happen?

    This would be like having your support in LoL carry the team in kills/damage rather than the ADC. Makes no sense.
    How much worse offensively should enforcer be? I doubt its offense stats are as good as the more offensive player types. If EA made it completely useless outside of hitting and fighting then why would anyone use it? Real NHL enforcers are capable of making nice plays and scoring from time to time so the build has to have some offensive skill.

    Should playmakers not be able to score goals because they have the highest passing? Should snipers not be able to pass because they have the highest shot accuracy/power? A system of extremes like that would be a disaster. The complaints on here would shift more from "builds all feel the same" to "builds are useless".

    I agree that there should be a better balance between strengths and weaknesses but not to the point where builds are completely incapable of doing certain things. Some players are just so good at the game that they can overcome a build's weaknesses too. Doesn't necessarily mean that the build needs to be nerfed into the ground.
  • well this goes back to when we had custom builds, Remember experimenting with putting nothing on speed and putting on just acceleration? or vise versa and not noticing a difference? Then there was experimenting with say an 85 shot acc vs 90 shot acc, or hand eye etc.

    at the times of custom builds a lot of it was never explained in detail on which stats it actually boosted or helped, we later just found out ourselves with experimentation.

    that being said I never found say 5 points extra in a certain attribute noticeable at all. So going ahead to todays game and if they are using the same system but instead giving us just preset builds then yeah they will feel identical because they were broken to begin with, only height and weight really effect how sluggish your player felt and still does now
  • There's a reason there are no enforcers left in hockey. They are almost useless on the ice.

    The problem I see is that how most goals are scored, I see almost no difference in success between the classes.

    And passing? I refuse to play as an enforcer out of principal but I've played every other class quite a bit and don't notice any difference in passing.

    I'm ok with how skating is but for most part it's another area that all classes are basically equal. Sorry but if you take enforcer it should be for fighting and basically terrible at everything else. If you take pwf your shots should be about half as accurate as a sniper. In my experience there's really no difference in success rate while shooting with almost any class.

    But in flip side, pwf can carry puck through a crowd and basically never lose it from contact, easily keep it away from pokes because of reach, etc... A sniper can't go anywhere near other players, if they fart they'll lose the puck. Not to mention taller players chasing smaller ones can easily poke pucks away while bring beat by two strides.

    Point I'm making it some attributes are basically equal amongst all classes while others are wildly out of balance. Sorry as a sniper who is in a good scoring chance you should probably score about 50% of the time where let's say a grinder about 15% but I feel like it's about 80% for sniper and maybe 75% for everyone else. I'm pretty sure my grinder is about 30% in eashl and at least half those shots are just putting pucks on net trying to create rebounds.

    Go look at the top 25 scoring fwds in lg and I bet they are all grinders or maybe twf. That should tell you everything. Mostly the need to balance the impact of size and physicality. But also they need to increase impact of shooting and passing.
  • Attributes are needed. Playing as a forward it seems impossible to get a breakaway even when you get a breakaway The defense some how flys back and catches you.. the poke check is so unrealistic its not even funny. Half the time the computer somehow puts the stick through the body and get the puck. Computer ai reacts to spin moves and dekes as if they already know the move. Is coming. The little bumps by players is total ****. I swear i will play as a jumbo playmaker get tapped by a dangler and lose the puck. The physics of this game is so off. If a player is moving forward with the puck and get bumped from behind the puck should not stop or go backwards but instead go forward with momentum hopefully this game doesnt **** the bed like nhl 17. NHL 17 is complete ****. Goalies can save almost everything but once a player passes the puck of the right or left pad its a automatic rebound goal. Everything they did out side of allowing us to create our arena was terrible. EA NEEDS TO LISTEN TO THE PLAYERS. BECAUSE THEY OBVIOUSLY DONT TEST THIER GAMES TO SEE IF THEYRE ANY GOOD. IF THEY DID THEY WOULD REALIZE HOW **** AND UNREALISTIC THE GAME REALLY IS.

    BRING BACK THE ATTRIBUTES.
  • The classes in this game make no sense nor do they play like the title theyre givin . I was playing as a 2way forward and lost every draw to a sniper. Im near 60% on draws when playing as a jumbo playmaker or dangler. Sorry ea but the best centers in the nhl are 2way forwards. Ive also been outskated by a enforcer playing as a dangler. The goalie can stop the hard shots from a sniper but once a grinder shoots it goes in. Let us build our guy the way we want like we use to.
  • B_Bunny
    893 posts Moderator
    edited July 2017
    The classes in this game make no sense nor do they play like the title theyre givin . I was playing as a 2way forward and lost every draw to a sniper. Im near 60% on draws when playing as a jumbo playmaker or dangler. Sorry ea but the best centers in the nhl are 2way forwards. Ive also been outskated by a enforcer playing as a dangler. The goalie can stop the hard shots from a sniper but once a grinder shoots it goes in. Let us build our guy the way we want like we use to.

    You know faceoffs are equal across the board for classes right? So that sniper was just better than you that game.
    PSN: B-Bunny
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    The classes in this game make no sense nor do they play like the title theyre givin . I was playing as a 2way forward and lost every draw to a sniper. Im near 60% on draws when playing as a jumbo playmaker or dangler. Sorry ea but the best centers in the nhl are 2way forwards. Ive also been outskated by a enforcer playing as a dangler. The goalie can stop the hard shots from a sniper but once a grinder shoots it goes in. Let us build our guy the way we want like we use to.

    You know faceoffs are equal across the board for classes right? So that sniper was just better than you that game.

    Or had ~15 ms vs. ~ 45 ms?
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    The classes in this game make no sense nor do they play like the title theyre givin . I was playing as a 2way forward and lost every draw to a sniper. Im near 60% on draws when playing as a jumbo playmaker or dangler. Sorry ea but the best centers in the nhl are 2way forwards. Ive also been outskated by a enforcer playing as a dangler. The goalie can stop the hard shots from a sniper but once a grinder shoots it goes in. Let us build our guy the way we want like we use to.

    You know faceoffs are equal across the board for classes right? So that sniper was just better than you that game.

    Or had ~15 ms vs. ~ 45 ms?

    faceoffs are so broken in this game online. at least they don't work the way they claim they do. I've given up trying all the crazy **** everyone says will work. i mean offline, against CPU, i'll win roughly 85-90% of the time, against other humans about 70% of the time.

    online i'll go anywhere from 80% to 20% and in each game i have exactly the same latency, 10-11ms. Yet when I am losing most of the faceoffs my guy never moves, never does anything. Sometimes I seem to start winning by just doing the exact opposite of what i should be doing. I've also heard for last few years there's faceoff glitches and friends always tell me that's what's happening. But I don't know that I buy that. all of the stuff they have supposedly put in place to stop that kind of thing do absolutely nothing. most the times i'm consistently getting beat by someone online they are constantly twitching and switching grips up until the puck drops... yet they win it. That should be an automatic loss. If I ever move early i always lose it.

    but here's the real kicker on faceoffs. i've been playing drop ins with friends before where i don't touch a thing the hole time and my guy does various faceoff techniques all on his own and wins it nearly half the time.
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    The classes in this game make no sense nor do they play like the title theyre givin . I was playing as a 2way forward and lost every draw to a sniper. Im near 60% on draws when playing as a jumbo playmaker or dangler. Sorry ea but the best centers in the nhl are 2way forwards. Ive also been outskated by a enforcer playing as a dangler. The goalie can stop the hard shots from a sniper but once a grinder shoots it goes in. Let us build our guy the way we want like we use to.

    You know faceoffs are equal across the board for classes right? So that sniper was just better than you that game.

    Or had ~15 ms vs. ~ 45 ms?

    faceoffs are so broken in this game online. at least they don't work the way they claim they do. I've given up trying all the crazy **** everyone says will work. i mean offline, against CPU, i'll win roughly 85-90% of the time, against other humans about 70% of the time.

    online i'll go anywhere from 80% to 20% and in each game i have exactly the same latency, 10-11ms. Yet when I am losing most of the faceoffs my guy never moves, never does anything. Sometimes I seem to start winning by just doing the exact opposite of what i should be doing. I've also heard for last few years there's faceoff glitches and friends always tell me that's what's happening. But I don't know that I buy that. all of the stuff they have supposedly put in place to stop that kind of thing do absolutely nothing. most the times i'm consistently getting beat by someone online they are constantly twitching and switching grips up until the puck drops... yet they win it. That should be an automatic loss. If I ever move early i always lose it.

    but here's the real kicker on faceoffs. i've been playing drop ins with friends before where i don't touch a thing the hole time and my guy does various faceoff techniques all on his own and wins it nearly half the time.

    depending on which server i am on (i.e. the "15 vs. 45 ms) I tend to win either 80% or 20% of the faceoffs.

    B)
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