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Sometimes the Game Really Is Rigged

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Bmh245
859 posts Member
I think everyone who's played this game has had the experience of making a pass that you were sure was going to get past a defender, only to see it mysteriously deflected away, and the experience of having the puck poked away by a player whose stick seemed to be two feet longer than it should be. But when people complain about these things, the typical response is "it's all in your imagination" or "you're just not as good as you think you are."

The reality, though, is that the people who feel like the game is conspiring against them in these cases are right -- it is. It's doing so by letting defensive players do something that's not just unrealistic, but that also violates the laws of physics (both IRL and in the game): throw their sticks to knock away the puck and then have the stick return magically to their hands.

Here are two examples that from just my last two days of games. In the first one, I was behind the net, spinning away from the defensive player. He reached out and somehow poked the puck away, even though I knew the puck should have been out of reach. Here's how he did it:



Now, that clip is an absolute classic. Kane throws his stick at the puck. His stick doesn't actually hit the puck, but still deflects it away. And the puck then goes right through my player's stick blade. Three game mistakes in a second and a half. But the worst of them is the stick throw.

Here's an even more egregious example. I make a pass up the boards. The game completely misdirects my pass (I'm aiming at roughly 12 o'clock, and the game forces the puck to go to 11 o'clock instead), but even so it's hard enough to get past the defender. And it does get past him, except he does this:





He hurls the stick at the puck. It knocks the puck away (creating a great scoring chance for my opponent, btw), and then magically returns to his hand.

A couple more clips, from a few weeks ago. Hedman, behind the net, tosses his stick to poke the puck away:



And, just like the Malkin clip, a pass up the boards gets deflected by a tossed stick:





I posted about this problem last year, and it's amazing to me that it's still in the game. And although, relative to all the many problems with this game, this is relatively small, it's exactly the kind of thing that makes people complain that the game is rigged against them, a complaint that in this case is totally justified. And given that I caught it happening twice in ten games, I think it's safe to say that it's happening way more often than it should (especially since it should never happen). Get rid of stick throwing: it's a ridiculous glitch that doesn't belong in the game.

Replies

  • B-Bunny
    871 posts Game Changer
    Here you go :)
    NHL Gamechanger
    PSN: B-Bunny
    Twitch: https://twitch.tv/b_bunny
  • From what I see, the hand moves back to the stick. This makes me think that there is a screw up in where the location of the player's hand is supposed to be. So if EA fixes the animation with the hand then the result of the plays are staying the same they'll just look different.
  • Game isn't rigged. Its just an animation problem. That's all. I'm sure your players do the same thing.
  • Bmh245
    859 posts Member
    j483beale wrote: »
    From what I see, the hand moves back to the stick. This makes me think that there is a screw up in where the location of the player's hand is supposed to be. So if EA fixes the animation with the hand then the result of the plays are staying the same they'll just look different.

    No -- the thing about these plays is that they allow the stick to go much further than it otherwise would. That's why I noticed these plays as they were happening -- I made passes that I knew, from experience, would make it through, and saw them deflected instead, and watched my players get poke checked from distances that they shouldn't have been able to be poke checked from. I agree that it's obviously an animation problem, but if it were fixed, there would be fewer deflections and fewer unrealistic poke checks.

    Regardless, the point is that it needs to be fixed. You can't have a hockey game where players are able to hurl their sticks like Thor's hammer and have them return to their hands.

  • Didn't believe this till today.


    In a game before in HUT I was 3-0 up until 15 mins to go. The guy had been played like utter crap , All of a sudden his players got better mine turned to trash...........


    94 goailie I have and he smashed in 6 goals in the last five mins. I'm going to wipe my team and play offline **** this.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    j483beale wrote: »
    From what I see, the hand moves back to the stick. This makes me think that there is a screw up in where the location of the player's hand is supposed to be. So if EA fixes the animation with the hand then the result of the plays are staying the same they'll just look different.

    No -- the thing about these plays is that they allow the stick to go much further than it otherwise would. That's why I noticed these plays as they were happening -- I made passes that I knew, from experience, would make it through, and saw them deflected instead, and watched my players get poke checked from distances that they shouldn't have been able to be poke checked from. I agree that it's obviously an animation problem, but if it were fixed, there would be fewer deflections and fewer unrealistic poke checks.

    Regardless, the point is that it needs to be fixed. You can't have a hockey game where players are able to hurl their sticks like Thor's hammer and have them return to their hands.

    The players are not throwing their hammer and having it come back to them though... their hand "catches up" to the stick. The player isn't skating up to the stick to grab it again its literally the players arm moving towards the stick. If that gets fixed these pokes still happen.
  • i think the game cheats!
    THE...Detriot Frenzy Alumni
  • joefitz22
    643 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    Rem0rse321 wrote: »
    Game isn't rigged. Its just an animation problem. That's all. I'm sure your players do the same thing.

    Aye my players do it as well and some of us COMPLAIN about our players doing it as well!
    I DO NOT want to Win a game because my slap shot physically passes through the goalies chest and goes into the net for the GWG!
    I DO NOT want to Win a game simply because my best friends poke check physically passes through my stick and the puck as I am taking a slap shot
    I DO NOT want to Win a game because MY stick magically leaves my hand and pokes the puck away on a last second (say 5 or 6 sec left on clock) shot on a yawning net
    Not to mention I DO NOT want to Lose a game that way either
    I've said it before, this game is plagued by the magical force known as the SOMETIMES (SOMETIMES all objects are solid and your poke check works to perfection BUT a mere 10sec later you SOMETIMES those "same" objects are invisible and physically pass through other objects ???????? WHY?????)
    I don't give a Flying F*** why those problems happen (coding, animation, etc), I DO give a Flying F*** why they are still in the game Year after Year after Year after Year! This SAME Year after Year after Year after Year problems LEAD PEOPLE TO BELIEVE that games are rigged ON PURPOSE (to keep games close). Again the SOMETIMES. My best friend is on the PP controlling the Cycle in my zone, his pass goes to his high Dman, he winds up and my poke check knocks puck across blue line in Neutral Zone....regains control of Zone and again Dman winds up BUT THIS TIME MY POKE CHECK physically passes through the puck and he gets the shot off (ironic that it led to GWG). WHT THE F*** did my poke check work 10-15sec earlier but physically pass through the puck the 2nd time around (which led to GWG) but I'm NOT SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE this game isn't rigged???
  • j483beale wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    j483beale wrote: »
    From what I see, the hand moves back to the stick. This makes me think that there is a screw up in where the location of the player's hand is supposed to be. So if EA fixes the animation with the hand then the result of the plays are staying the same they'll just look different.

    No -- the thing about these plays is that they allow the stick to go much further than it otherwise would. That's why I noticed these plays as they were happening -- I made passes that I knew, from experience, would make it through, and saw them deflected instead, and watched my players get poke checked from distances that they shouldn't have been able to be poke checked from. I agree that it's obviously an animation problem, but if it were fixed, there would be fewer deflections and fewer unrealistic poke checks.

    Regardless, the point is that it needs to be fixed. You can't have a hockey game where players are able to hurl their sticks like Thor's hammer and have them return to their hands.

    The players are not throwing their hammer and having it come back to them though... their hand "catches up" to the stick. The player isn't skating up to the stick to grab it again its literally the players arm moving towards the stick. If that gets fixed these pokes still happen.

    What Bmh is saying and what I can also see is the poke check is reaching further than physically possible when it leaves his hands, as the player moves further towards the puck after the initial poke check the stick moves back into range of his hand and he then grips the puck again. It's obviously an animation glitch but it's allowing playing to reach further than they should be able to.

    I haven't studied replays in games I've played so closely, but I know I have quite a few "**** !" moments when I get poke checked from behind from the opposite side I'm holding my stick to when it should be impossible for them to reach it.

    We all play those games that after you win a few games in a row the next game you just can't get anything going, you're playing the exact same, but passes are bouncing off of sticks, fanning on shots that were goals last game, crazy pass interceptions on the other team while your team is getting the puck passed right through the blade of your stick.

    It's hard not to think there is something behind it, I don't think the game is picking a team lose personally, I just think eventually after a few games of playing well you get the perfect storm of inconsistencies and negative randomness and I think that is the problem with the game; it's just much too inconsistent to be played competitively game to game. I used to think I wanted realistic hockey, but not if it's like this, I'd rather what we had back in 2010-2012, sure it was arcadey, but at least when someone scored there was something that could of been done to stop it.

    TLDR: I think they just need to work on getting a consistent game back into the series, if you're in a passing lane looking directly at the passer, especially on defense defending cross creases,you get a pass interception, every single time, unless its a nice saucer pass or behind your back if you are side on in the lane. Hitting needs to be more consistent as well, no more holding the stick to the side to make hits bounce off. Sticks breaking need to be gone for online, period, or at the very least for EASHL. Stick lifts need to stop giving high sticks and slashing penalties while in perfect position, you don't break sticks by stick lifting them, it's ridiculous.
  • Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    j483beale wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    j483beale wrote: »
    From what I see, the hand moves back to the stick. This makes me think that there is a screw up in where the location of the player's hand is supposed to be. So if EA fixes the animation with the hand then the result of the plays are staying the same they'll just look different.

    No -- the thing about these plays is that they allow the stick to go much further than it otherwise would. That's why I noticed these plays as they were happening -- I made passes that I knew, from experience, would make it through, and saw them deflected instead, and watched my players get poke checked from distances that they shouldn't have been able to be poke checked from. I agree that it's obviously an animation problem, but if it were fixed, there would be fewer deflections and fewer unrealistic poke checks.

    Regardless, the point is that it needs to be fixed. You can't have a hockey game where players are able to hurl their sticks like Thor's hammer and have them return to their hands.

    The players are not throwing their hammer and having it come back to them though... their hand "catches up" to the stick. The player isn't skating up to the stick to grab it again its literally the players arm moving towards the stick. If that gets fixed these pokes still happen.

    What Bmh is saying and what I can also see is the poke check is reaching further than physically possible when it leaves his hands, as the player moves further towards the puck after the initial poke check the stick moves back into range of his hand and he then grips the puck again. It's obviously an animation glitch but it's allowing playing to reach further than they should be able to.

    I haven't studied replays in games I've played so closely, but I know I have quite a few "**** !" moments when I get poke checked from behind from the opposite side I'm holding my stick to when it should be impossible for them to reach it.

    We all play those games that after you win a few games in a row the next game you just can't get anything going, you're playing the exact same, but passes are bouncing off of sticks, fanning on shots that were goals last game, crazy pass interceptions on the other team while your team is getting the puck passed right through the blade of your stick.

    It's hard not to think there is something behind it, I don't think the game is picking a team lose personally, I just think eventually after a few games of playing well you get the perfect storm of inconsistencies and negative randomness and I think that is the problem with the game; it's just much too inconsistent to be played competitively game to game. I used to think I wanted realistic hockey, but not if it's like this, I'd rather what we had back in 2010-2012, sure it was arcadey, but at least when someone scored there was something that could of been done to stop it.

    TLDR: I think they just need to work on getting a consistent game back into the series, if you're in a passing lane looking directly at the passer, especially on defense defending cross creases,you get a pass interception, every single time, unless its a nice saucer pass or behind your back if you are side on in the lane. Hitting needs to be more consistent as well, no more holding the stick to the side to make hits bounce off. Sticks breaking need to be gone for online, period, or at the very least for EASHL. Stick lifts need to stop giving high sticks and slashing penalties while in perfect position, you don't break sticks by stick lifting them, it's ridiculous.

    Well said but how many of these problems could be solved with better Collision Detection in place?
    Define REALISM? To me:
    REALISM means pucks, sticks (aka Solid Objects) don't physically pass through other Solid Objects!
    REALISM means players can't hold their stick to one side and glide all over the ice (sometimes gaining more speed in a glide)
    REALISM means players can't take a hold of Rob Scuderi and deke and dangle their way through all 5 players on the ice (IRL he is a slow defensive defensemen, he doesn't have that skill set to do that)
    REALISM means not being able to pop right back up from a hit and regain control of the puck like NOTHING happened
    REALISM means not being able to skate directly into an opponent and still maintain control of the puck
    there is a sheet ton more that I can cite (call it what you want. bugs, glitches, etc) but to me this game is far from REALISTIC
  • I think my favorite is when your stick wedges in your opponent's skates for a tripping call, but it "just so happens" to go through your opponent's stick and puck on the way to the skates.
  • joefitz22
    643 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    I think my favorite is when your stick wedges in your opponent's skates for a tripping call, but it "just so happens" to go through your opponent's stick and puck on the way to the skates.

    EXACTLY my point! What is it within the game mechanics that decides when the SOMETIMES happen??
    Does the game think:
    Scenario 1) Well you've been dominating your opponent 5 PP to 0 and to be honest that's not fair so we're gonna make your stick physically pass through your opponents skates, physically pass through the puck like they are invisible BUT...BUT it's GOING TO make contact with his skates so you get a Tripping Penalty
    Scenario 2) Well it's the last minute of the 3rd period and you're down by a goal, so we're gonna make your point shot get through and then physically pass through the goalies blocker so you can Tie the game and head to OT

    Now before all the PRO EA people say the game doesn't decide those things...I don't believe the game does BUT how do you explain why my stick physically passes through opponents stick (SOLID OBJECT deemed Invisible ), physically passes through the puck (SOLID OBJECT deemed Invisible) BUT it deems the skates to be a SOLID OBJECT and it makes Contact with them causing a Tripping penalty....what decides the what/when/why/how that happens in the course of a game???
    I Don't decide that my stick is gonna do that, my Opponent Doesn't decide that my stick is gonna do that....so what DOES decide that my stick does that (at that particular point in the game)?
  • SaveUs2K wrote: »
    j483beale wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    j483beale wrote: »
    From what I see, the hand moves back to the stick. This makes me think that there is a screw up in where the location of the player's hand is supposed to be. So if EA fixes the animation with the hand then the result of the plays are staying the same they'll just look different.

    No -- the thing about these plays is that they allow the stick to go much further than it otherwise would. That's why I noticed these plays as they were happening -- I made passes that I knew, from experience, would make it through, and saw them deflected instead, and watched my players get poke checked from distances that they shouldn't have been able to be poke checked from. I agree that it's obviously an animation problem, but if it were fixed, there would be fewer deflections and fewer unrealistic poke checks.

    Regardless, the point is that it needs to be fixed. You can't have a hockey game where players are able to hurl their sticks like Thor's hammer and have them return to their hands.

    The players are not throwing their hammer and having it come back to them though... their hand "catches up" to the stick. The player isn't skating up to the stick to grab it again its literally the players arm moving towards the stick. If that gets fixed these pokes still happen.

    So, you failed high school physcis, huh? So, if the guy has to "catch up" to his stick (aka MOVE) then one could argue the stick isn't in a position where he could possibly have a hand on it, if he has to "catch up" right? Or, am I just a crazy person?

    Ugh, I hate actually having common sense and critical thinking skills when I read posts on these forums...

    Did you watch the videos? Did you see the player and the stick move simultaneously as if he was still holding the stick? Did you see how the player never got closer to the stick to have it in his hand again?
  • I think my favorite is when your stick wedges in your opponent's skates for a tripping call, but it "just so happens" to go through your opponent's stick and puck on the way to the skates.

    Indeed.

    +1
  • Bmh245
    859 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    j483beale wrote:
    Did you watch the videos? Did you see the player and the stick move simultaneously as if he was still holding the stick? Did you see how the player never got closer to the stick to have it in his hand again?

    What are you talking about? The player in the clip below absolutely gets closer to the stick. Just look at his skates. As the stick is floating in mid-air, you can see he's moving toward it, and even then he has to reach out to grab it. Which tells you that the stick went much further from his body than it would have had he not thrown it:



  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    j483beale wrote:
    Did you watch the videos? Did you see the player and the stick move simultaneously as if he was still holding the stick? Did you see how the player never got closer to the stick to have it in his hand again?

    What are you talking about? The player in the clip below absolutely gets closer to the stick. Just look at his skates. As the stick is floating in mid-air, you can see he's moving toward it, and even then he has to reach out to grab it. Which tells you that the stick went much further from his body than it would have had he not thrown it:



    Do me a favor and go to 0:17 and hit play. Watch the stick and the lower half of the player. Do you see how they move? Do you understand what I'm saying now?
  • j483beale wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    j483beale wrote:
    Did you watch the videos? Did you see the player and the stick move simultaneously as if he was still holding the stick? Did you see how the player never got closer to the stick to have it in his hand again?

    What are you talking about? The player in the clip below absolutely gets closer to the stick. Just look at his skates. As the stick is floating in mid-air, you can see he's moving toward it, and even then he has to reach out to grab it. Which tells you that the stick went much further from his body than it would have had he not thrown it:



    Do me a favor and go to 0:17 and hit play. Watch the stick and the lower half of the player. Do you see how they move? Do you understand what I'm saying now?

    Whats being debated is how a player can poke out of his reach, which the player does, to get a poke on an object which was out of his reach before the stick left his hands. I'm sure next it will be described as a weather balloon by the ea fanboys.
  • Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    j483beale wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    j483beale wrote:
    Did you watch the videos? Did you see the player and the stick move simultaneously as if he was still holding the stick? Did you see how the player never got closer to the stick to have it in his hand again?

    What are you talking about? The player in the clip below absolutely gets closer to the stick. Just look at his skates. As the stick is floating in mid-air, you can see he's moving toward it, and even then he has to reach out to grab it. Which tells you that the stick went much further from his body than it would have had he not thrown it:



    Do me a favor and go to 0:17 and hit play. Watch the stick and the lower half of the player. Do you see how they move? Do you understand what I'm saying now?

    Whats being debated is how a player can poke out of his reach, which the player does, to get a poke on an object which was out of his reach before the stick left his hands. I'm sure next it will be described as a weather balloon by the ea fanboys.

    If the poke is out of his reach and the player has to throw his stick to reach it, then why does the thrown stick stay the same distance away from the body and get grabbed again?
  • Bmh245
    859 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    j483beale wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    j483beale wrote:
    Did you watch the videos? Did you see the player and the stick move simultaneously as if he was still holding the stick? Did you see how the player never got closer to the stick to have it in his hand again?

    What are you talking about? The player in the clip below absolutely gets closer to the stick. Just look at his skates. As the stick is floating in mid-air, you can see he's moving toward it, and even then he has to reach out to grab it. Which tells you that the stick went much further from his body than it would have had he not thrown it:



    Do me a favor and go to 0:17 and hit play. Watch the stick and the lower half of the player. Do you see how they move? Do you understand what I'm saying now?

    Yeah, I see how they move. The stick is floating in mid-air and the player's lower body moves toward the stick. In other words, unlike what you're saying, the player gets closer to the stick in order to to have it in his hand again. And he does that because the stick was thrown further away from his body than he would have been able to poke it while holding on to it.

    The thrown stick does not "stay the same distance from the body." After he throws it (look at 0:10-0:11, his arm is fully extended but there's a gap between his hand and the stick. Then that gap closes because he gets closer to it while the stick hangs in mid-air.

    Look, I've played literally thousands of games on the new-gen consoles. (Sad, but true.) I know when the puck is in reach of a defensive player and when it isn't. The reason I spotted these glitches is not because I was going through every deflected pass and every poke check against me looking for anomalies. I only spotted them because as soon as they happened, in live action, I said "There's no way that pass should have been deflected." That's what made me look at the replays and see that, in fact, the passes shouldn't have been deflected.

    If, as you say, throwing the stick didn't allow players to reach further than they otherwise could, I would never have noticed anything weird about the deflections and pokes. It's precisely because throwing the stick does let defensive players make plays they otherwise couldn't make that I recognized the glitches as they were happening.


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