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TPS is very good. Don't change it EA, just iron out the kinks

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The TPS is so fluid and well done. I love how lifelike it feels. If you skate full speed and give yourself room to turn, you will continue to crossover while you turn. Turn to sharp and you do a hard turn which allows a sharper turn, but you aren't crossing over so in the backend of it, you lose a slight bit of speed. I love the hockey stops, the backskating, the crossing over of your skates when you're turning while accelerating, all of that is good. Here's the things that could use work.

1) Puck awareness that is AI controlled. When the puck is in your feet while you're turning, your guy should kick it up to his skate or at least maybe swipe at it in the direction of a teammate. That has been a bit of an issue although it's improved compared to other years.

2) The ballerina spins need toned down. I'm not totally sure how, all I know is if I just barely touch the right analog they will act goofy in the d-zone specifically around the net.

3) We need to be able to turn a bit tighter along the boards when we aren't going full speed. Watch Alex Kovalev dangling highlights from when he was on Pittsburgh. He would skate somewhat slow in the o-zone then do a real quick hard turn and leave the guy behind, then do it 20 feet later. Quick turns like that help the fluidity of the offense and differentiate between average players and great players. Continue to have the agility attribute affect this, as it already does. Just have the turns a bit tighter. I can't turn as sharply at somewhat slow speeds with Erik Karlsson along the boards as I maybe could.

4) Allow the hipcheck to be a skating check, not just a kneeling one. We can hold in the left analog to hipcheck, but our guy still skates until he's right by the guy with the puck. This allows us to be more accurate with our hipchecking, which is directly related to TPS.

5) If we are perpendicular to the area that we want to skate, have our player cross their skates over to get a start, rather than just pushing off an going. Crossing one skate over the other in a parallel fashion would add significantly to the realism for which you're attempting to portray.

Any other things that EA could improve on TPS?

Replies

  • Some good points. I don't have many issues with TPS the way it is now, but of course there are things that can be improved.

    For instance: I disagree with you about the hockey stops. I think they're still a little too floaty and not ?sharp? (couldn't think of a better word lol) enough. Hockey stopping and starting back up in the other direction isn't quick enough and doesn't have that "hard stop" feeling that you get in real life, say, when you're doing ladder drills or suicides.

    Also, I really think they need to add the possibility of falling down back into the game (as it used to be back in NHL12). The thing is, when should this happen? Attributes should definitely come into play here but I'll get into that in a minute.

    I think the first qualifier should be speed and the angle you are trying to turn at. If you are blazing down the ice in a straight line at full hustle and at or near top speed and you suddenly cut the stick FULLY left or right (in order to make a close to 90 degree turn) you should blow a tire and lose your edge. This has happened to every single hockey player many times in their lives in situations where they are desperate to get to the puck or a certain part of the ice quickly after already being at full speed. The way to avoid this would be to keep your relative speed in mind and gradually turn your left stick to the angle you want to turn at.

    The second qualifier I can think of would be a player's current stamina level. If the puck carrier is at the end of his shift and has stamina in the low yellow to red and is still trying to execute quick cuts back and forth, left and right, he should eventually blow a tire. This would counter the crazy advantage puck hogs can sometimes have in the offensive zone.

    Now, like I said before, attributes should have a HUGE role in this. Mainly agility and BALANCE (an attribute that didn't seem to have much bearing on anything in the past few games). The less balance you have, the easier you lose an edge. Pretty straightforward.
  • COGSx86
    781 posts Member
    Both great posts, an example Ovey this week. Guy is/was one of the fastest skaters in the league, Was blowing tires all over the ice. We should see more in this game.

    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    Both great posts, an example Ovey this week. Guy is/was one of the fastest skaters in the league, Was blowing tires all over the ice. We should see more in this game.

    Agreed, it would make the game feel more organic...and bring back big hit misses...people smashing off the boards and falling.
    Would be nice to have both of these back.
  • COGSx86
    781 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    Both great posts, an example Ovey this week. Guy is/was one of the fastest skaters in the league, Was blowing tires all over the ice. We should see more in this game.

    Agreed, it would make the game feel more organic...and bring back big hit misses...people smashing off the boards and falling.
    Would be nice to have both of these back.

    true and at the same time EA needs to fix the body collision algo, when players touch other players who are doing dekes or whatever else, the contact needs to register. because right now alot of times nothing happens.
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    Both great posts, an example Ovey this week. Guy is/was one of the fastest skaters in the league, Was blowing tires all over the ice. We should see more in this game.

    Agreed, it would make the game feel more organic...and bring back big hit misses...people smashing off the boards and falling.
    Would be nice to have both of these back.

    true and at the same time EA needs to fix the body collision algo, when players touch other players who are doing dekes or whatever else, the contact needs to register. because right now alot of times nothing happens.
    Ya it can be tweaked for sure...especially when players pull back their sticks...and when in a deke...they should be easier to knock off balance...not the opposite
  • this has to be a joke.
  • this has to be a joke.

    Nope. It's a great skating engine. There's momentum, man. You can't just turn. You have to turnnnnnn
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    this has to be a joke.

    Nope. It's a great skating engine. There's momentum, man. You can't just turn. You have to turnnnnnn

    Yep. This is Hockey. Hockey has physics. You want to turn 90° without consequences. Play this:

    pac-man-championship-edition-20070606050611462-000.jpg
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    this has to be a joke.

    Nope. It's a great skating engine. There's momentum, man. You can't just turn. You have to turnnnnnn

    Yep. This is Hockey. Hockey has physics. You want to turn 90° without consequences. Play this:

    pac-man-championship-edition-20070606050611462-000.jpg

    I bet you that game is/can be a blast to play since "the game" doesn't decide randomly whether or not your controller input will translate accurately into the game situation.

    People can say what they want about TPS, but the fact of the matter is that if you don't have a PERFECT connection online it is a nightmare to deal with. When things go bad in the game for me it's almost always controller input related and only once in a while my opponent actually opening a can of whoop-🎃🎃🎃🎃 on me, though some games it is more legitimate than others.

    I've seen both sides of this. I've had games where everything works as intended (and it's fun when it does) and then other games where NOTHING works as intended (game literally feels broken in every way.) Thing is there usually is no in-between with this, and the in-between is where EA SHOULD be aiming for here to make things fair.

    It would just be nice to play a game where skill is the deciding factor and not the internet connection, and obviously EA is not interested in that kind of game any more. FVCK everything else and make it fair and ABLE to control.
  • ^ yup...that's why they need to upgrade or add more servers.
  • Good points!

    Also add vision control back as it used to work. On offence it would make you skate really slow but always square to the puck or if puck carrier it would square you up to the net. This could drastically lower your ability to turn, accelerate and avoid hits but would start to charge your shoot accuracy.

    Don't know how the transition from TPS mode to vision control skating mode if initiated at high speed would work but maybe keep speed and directions and take away turning ability.

    Also don't have offensive back skating on the same button as vision control mode. It doesn't work.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    this has to be a joke.

    Nope. It's a great skating engine. There's momentum, man. You can't just turn. You have to turnnnnnn

    Yep. This is Hockey. Hockey has physics. You want to turn 90° without consequences. Play this:

    pac-man-championship-edition-20070606050611462-000.jpg

    I bet you that game is/can be a blast to play since "the game" doesn't decide randomly whether or not your controller input will translate accurately into the game situation.

    People can say what they want about TPS, but the fact of the matter is that if you don't have a PERFECT connection online it is a nightmare to deal with. When things go bad in the game for me it's almost always controller input related and only once in a while my opponent actually opening a can of whoop-**** on me, though some games it is more legitimate than others.

    I've seen both sides of this. I've had games where everything works as intended (and it's fun when it does) and then other games where NOTHING works as intended (game literally feels broken in every way.) Thing is there usually is no in-between with this, and the in-between is where EA SHOULD be aiming for here to make things fair.

    It would just be nice to play a game where skill is the deciding factor and not the internet connection, and obviously EA is not interested in that kind of game any more. FVCK everything else and make it fair and ABLE to control.

    Sooooooooo... The problem is the connection, not TPS. But you'd have them scrap TPS because you get sh*te connection all the time?

    Interesting problem solving skills there! "Hey, my cart wheel is lose, what am I gonna do?", "EH... Just shoot the horses! They're useless since they can't pull a broken cart around."
  • The two main culprits that give TPS a horrid feeling are connection quality to the server, and movement/turns at slow speeds. These two issues need a serious fix. As for the rest, TPS can work well and I don't think anyone is whining about momentum/weight being a factor. When you are controlling the gap as a d man, and the carrier decides to speed burst past you, this is where TPS lacks. The control for the d man is just plain horrible in this situation.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    this has to be a joke.

    Nope. It's a great skating engine. There's momentum, man. You can't just turn. You have to turnnnnnn

    Yep. This is Hockey. Hockey has physics. You want to turn 90° without consequences. Play this:

    pac-man-championship-edition-20070606050611462-000.jpg

    I bet you that game is/can be a blast to play since "the game" doesn't decide randomly whether or not your controller input will translate accurately into the game situation.

    People can say what they want about TPS, but the fact of the matter is that if you don't have a PERFECT connection online it is a nightmare to deal with. When things go bad in the game for me it's almost always controller input related and only once in a while my opponent actually opening a can of whoop-**** on me, though some games it is more legitimate than others.

    I've seen both sides of this. I've had games where everything works as intended (and it's fun when it does) and then other games where NOTHING works as intended (game literally feels broken in every way.) Thing is there usually is no in-between with this, and the in-between is where EA SHOULD be aiming for here to make things fair.

    It would just be nice to play a game where skill is the deciding factor and not the internet connection, and obviously EA is not interested in that kind of game any more. FVCK everything else and make it fair and ABLE to control.

    Sooooooooo... The problem is the connection, not TPS. But you'd have them scrap TPS because you get sh*te connection all the time?

    Interesting problem solving skills there! "Hey, my cart wheel is lose, what am I gonna do?", "EH... Just shoot the horses! They're useless since they can't pull a broken cart around."

    The problem is BOTH to an extent, but more so the way that TPS DOESN'T translate well unless you have ZERO lag/delay/latency. This is a common problem for me, and obviously for others as well. My successes and failures with this game feel DIRECTLY related to the connection quality and hardly at all about what my opponent brings to the table, and that's not a good model or situation for a competitive sports game to carry.

    It's funny how people whine and cry about the servers all the time when they don't even come into play on HUT or VS game modes. EASHL uses the servers, and I don't really have many problems with connection quality when playing that game mode (there are exceptions.) I have more problems with kids, idiots, and trolls than anything there.

    Maybe the answer is to add a server or two and do away with this P2P junk and see how that goes, and give US the direct ability to choose the server that works best for us.

    Now if EA doesn't want to do the things necessary to make the game playable to everyone then yes they should scrap things that don't work well on the internet.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    I can certainly understand the frustration that you feel. But as with my analogy, it's not because something doesn't work that you nuke it altogether to "fix it". I'm sure if you went back in time and tried to use the 1st wheel ever invented, you'd think it was a piece of garbage, but over the years humans improved on the design until it became a part of every day life that we can't live without.

    Same thing with TPS. It might be rough around the edges, but it deserves to be improved, not scrapped altogether.

    I don't have such a bad time with TPS, mostly because I don't have that many issues with my connection. I'd say that in 10 games, I maybe get ONE that's really bad and ONE that's so-so. And on those occasions where that happens, I don't blame TPS, but the fact that for some unkown reason, the game saddles me with the WESTERN servers when I'm EAST. And I know that when the connection's bad, I'll have to play a lot more conservatively and concentrate on staying in position more. That's the real problem, not the skating engine. Because when the game puts me in the correct server, I can do almost everything I want to movement-wise. There are the odd hiccups here and there, times where the animations have a hard time meshing into another one.

    But otherwise I know what to do and how to do it. I just apply my knowledge of ice skating and voila!
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    this has to be a joke.

    Nope. It's a great skating engine. There's momentum, man. You can't just turn. You have to turnnnnnn

    Yep. This is Hockey. Hockey has physics. You want to turn 90° without consequences. Play this:

    pac-man-championship-edition-20070606050611462-000.jpg

    I bet you that game is/can be a blast to play since "the game" doesn't decide randomly whether or not your controller input will translate accurately into the game situation.

    People can say what they want about TPS, but the fact of the matter is that if you don't have a PERFECT connection online it is a nightmare to deal with. When things go bad in the game for me it's almost always controller input related and only once in a while my opponent actually opening a can of whoop-**** on me, though some games it is more legitimate than others.

    I've seen both sides of this. I've had games where everything works as intended (and it's fun when it does) and then other games where NOTHING works as intended (game literally feels broken in every way.) Thing is there usually is no in-between with this, and the in-between is where EA SHOULD be aiming for here to make things fair.

    It would just be nice to play a game where skill is the deciding factor and not the internet connection, and obviously EA is not interested in that kind of game any more. FVCK everything else and make it fair and ABLE to control.

    Sooooooooo... The problem is the connection, not TPS. But you'd have them scrap TPS because you get sh*te connection all the time?

    Interesting problem solving skills there! "Hey, my cart wheel is lose, what am I gonna do?", "EH... Just shoot the horses! They're useless since they can't pull a broken cart around."

    Holy mother of all that is holy....

    Venom, sorry, but every now and then you just like to shoot over the top and jump on the fantasy bandwagon and almost come off as a crazy person....

    Name any other game that consistently has connection issues for a good portion of its user base? Guessing NBA2K is at the top of your list? Pretty sure the game does not kill you on the control side like TPS does. I've played only a handful of online 2K and hated it. But not because of lag or whatever. It was the fact you play with a scrub player vs all stars. Plus, I am not a basketball fan in the least, but wanted to try it.

    You are right, does not mean to scrap TPS all together, but there are just soo many issues with the NHL series that I wouldn't even know where to start.... Servers? Netcode? Old servers? Lack of servers? TPS engine too heavy for online play? Bla bla bla..... When there is a connection issue, every single thing in this game does not play well at all, including the AI on your team.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    "The TPS is so fluid and well done."

    Lol...... Ok, you can go now.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    "Same thing with TPS. It might be rough around the edges"

    It's been rough since NHL 13, it just doesn't work well with online modes, it doesn't jive!
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    this has to be a joke.

    Nope. It's a great skating engine. There's momentum, man. You can't just turn. You have to turnnnnnn

    Yep. This is Hockey. Hockey has physics. You want to turn 90° without consequences. Play this:

    pac-man-championship-edition-20070606050611462-000.jpg

    I bet you that game is/can be a blast to play since "the game" doesn't decide randomly whether or not your controller input will translate accurately into the game situation.

    People can say what they want about TPS, but the fact of the matter is that if you don't have a PERFECT connection online it is a nightmare to deal with. When things go bad in the game for me it's almost always controller input related and only once in a while my opponent actually opening a can of whoop-**** on me, though some games it is more legitimate than others.

    I've seen both sides of this. I've had games where everything works as intended (and it's fun when it does) and then other games where NOTHING works as intended (game literally feels broken in every way.) Thing is there usually is no in-between with this, and the in-between is where EA SHOULD be aiming for here to make things fair.

    It would just be nice to play a game where skill is the deciding factor and not the internet connection, and obviously EA is not interested in that kind of game any more. FVCK everything else and make it fair and ABLE to control.

    Sooooooooo... The problem is the connection, not TPS. But you'd have them scrap TPS because you get sh*te connection all the time?

    Interesting problem solving skills there! "Hey, my cart wheel is lose, what am I gonna do?", "EH... Just shoot the horses! They're useless since they can't pull a broken cart around."

    Holy mother of all that is holy....

    Venom, sorry, but every now and then you just like to shoot over the top and jump on the fantasy bandwagon and almost come off as a crazy person....

    Name any other game that consistently has connection issues for a good portion of its user base? Guessing NBA2K is at the top of your list? Pretty sure the game does not kill you on the control side like TPS does. I've played only a handful of online 2K and hated it. But not because of lag or whatever. It was the fact you play with a scrub player vs all stars. Plus, I am not a basketball fan in the least, but wanted to try it.

    You are right, does not mean to scrap TPS all together, but there are just soo many issues with the NHL series that I wouldn't even know where to start.... Servers? Netcode? Old servers? Lack of servers? TPS engine too heavy for online play? Bla bla bla..... When there is a connection issue, every single thing in this game does not play well at all, including the AI on your team.

    Exactly. My analogy was a bit "extreme", but it was meant to point out that people want to kill the weatherman because of the bad weather. That makes absolutely ZERO sense to me!

    NBA 2K plays HORRIBLY online compared to offline and it's not just that you're playing against All-Stars with your scrub created player. As someone who played NBA 2K's franchise mode religiously since 2K4, I can tell you that online makes the momentum based physics engine a chore to play with. But that's not a problem with the physics, that's a problem with their online code + servers. Because the game plays like an absolute TREASURE offline.

    Same with NHL.... Well... It would play fine offline, if it wasn't for the horrifically dumb as sh*te AI the EA devs thinks pass for "hockey players". And at least NHL 17 is more playable online than NBA 2K as far as i'm concerned. When the connection is truly bad, then it becomes less responsive, but I've never had anything but a hard time in NBA 2K, good or bad connection.
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    "Same thing with TPS. It might be rough around the edges"

    It's been rough since NHL 13, it just doesn't work well with online modes, it doesn't jive!

    @megadeth_600 Do you still think I'm being silly? It's kids like this, that don't appreciate when you have to put a little thought and effort into anything, that ruin it for the rest of us. Just like the mooks that complained that the AI is too "OP". Now we're saddled with AI bots that would probably fail as traffic cones instead of teammates that are capable of holding their own in a game of hockey. Brilliant!
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