EA Forums - Banner

TPS is very good. Don't change it EA, just iron out the kinks

Replies

  • SaveUs2K wrote: »
    The skating engine is blatantly clunky and the exact opposite of fluid. All you have to do is watch the AI skate, you know, the ones that should know how to execute it perfectly. They are constantly found spinning and not facing the puck, and when you're playing offline, the opponent AI just ignores the laws of TPS physics in order to make good plays, because it genuinely cannot make good plays if it sticks to the rules of TPS lol.

    To add on to other posts, small movements are still a nightmare. There's no good way to make small adjustments in-front of the net while keeping my shoulders square to the puck. "Oh, just do that clunky, stretched-out LT steps" No. They are useless at best. When you try to use "LT" half of the time you get stuck in the "running backwards like you're building up speed, but in reality are just high stepping your feet still until the game decides you can move again" animation. I can only imagine this must be what the devs look like if they try skating. I mean, I've seen 8 year olds generate more power and speed in their c-cuts/backwards crossovers than my apparent NHL defensemen in this game. If I don't use "LT" my guy will more than likely spin as TPS decided for me that spinning (a 270 degree rotation) was the quickest route to literally take one step "up" which should be a 90 degree rotation. Finally, top it off with the seamless puck pickups that drastically change my puck approach, all of which usually end up putting me in a worse position to protect the puck, as I just had to watch my skater do some SUPER KEWL warping/figure skating when I simply was pointing "down". Wow, what a system! Really impressed. My favorite part is when I get vacuumed 80+ feet in my own zone with no input! FLUID SYSTEM! ONLY MINOR TWEAKS NEEDED! lol....wow.

    This is the inconsistent, hot mess we still see to this day, yet we have people that genuinely think this is any more accurate of a skating representation than floating. Not saying it's less, but let's top kidding ourselves here. They're both garbage...

    this. this. this. what gets me on fwd too is how you can only take a few steps try to stop and your guy goes into this huge hockey stop animation even though you're barely moving. TPS has failed us since it's inception.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    NHL 10,11,12 was much more fun, lets get back to the cult following this game had back then, its dead today.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    NHL 10,11,12 was much more fun, lets get back to the cult following this game had back then, its dead today.

    You're getting 3 vs 3 arcade hockey. Hopefully it's online so you have nothing more to complain about.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    NHL 10,11,12 was much more fun, lets get back to the cult following this game had back then, its dead today.

    You're getting 3 vs 3 arcade hockey. Hopefully it's online so you have nothing more to complain about.

    you obviously never played the older games.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    NHL 10,11,12 was much more fun, lets get back to the cult following this game had back then, its dead today.

    You're getting 3 vs 3 arcade hockey. Hopefully it's online so you have nothing more to complain about.

    you obviously never played the older games.

    Which ones: NHL Hockey ('92)? NHLPA Hockey '93? NHL '94? Mutant League Hockey? NHL '95? NHL '96? NHL '97? NHL '98? NHL '99? NHL 2000? NHL 2001? NHL 2002? NHL 2003? NHL 2004? NHL 2005? NHL 2006? NHL 07? NHL 08? NHL 09? NHL Arcade 3 on 3? NHL 10? NHL 11? NHL 12? NHL 13? NHL 14? NHL 15 (xbox 360 and Xbox One)? NHL 16? NHL 17?

    Or maybe you mean one of the NONE EA NHL games like NHL Powerplay '96 and '98? NHL Faceoff? NHL Championship 2000? NHL 2K-2K10? NHL Rivals 2004? NHL Hitz? 2 on 2 Open Ice Challenge?

    Take your pick... And these are just the ones I owned on console and/or PC.

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    NHL 10,11,12 was much more fun, lets get back to the cult following this game had back then, its dead today.

    You're getting 3 vs 3 arcade hockey. Hopefully it's online so you have nothing more to complain about.

    you obviously never played the older games.

    Which ones: NHL Hockey ('92)? NHLPA Hockey '93? NHL '94? Mutant League Hockey? NHL '95? NHL '96? NHL '97? NHL '98? NHL '99? NHL 2000? NHL 2001? NHL 2002? NHL 2003? NHL 2004? NHL 2005? NHL 2006? NHL 07? NHL 08? NHL 09? NHL Arcade 3 on 3? NHL 10? NHL 11? NHL 12? NHL 13? NHL 14? NHL 15 (xbox 360 and Xbox One)? NHL 16? NHL 17?

    Or maybe you mean one of the NONE EA NHL games like NHL Powerplay '96 and '98? NHL Faceoff? NHL Championship 2000? NHL 2K-2K10? NHL Rivals 2004? NHL Hitz? 2 on 2 Open Ice Challenge?

    Take your pick... And these are just the ones I owned on console and/or PC.

    You're a bit on the ridiculous side, eh bud?

    Just saying you've been playing video game hockey since early 90's would have sufficed. :grimace:
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    NHL 10,11,12 was much more fun, lets get back to the cult following this game had back then, its dead today.

    You're getting 3 vs 3 arcade hockey. Hopefully it's online so you have nothing more to complain about.

    you obviously never played the older games.

    Which ones: NHL Hockey ('92)? NHLPA Hockey '93? NHL '94? Mutant League Hockey? NHL '95? NHL '96? NHL '97? NHL '98? NHL '99? NHL 2000? NHL 2001? NHL 2002? NHL 2003? NHL 2004? NHL 2005? NHL 2006? NHL 07? NHL 08? NHL 09? NHL Arcade 3 on 3? NHL 10? NHL 11? NHL 12? NHL 13? NHL 14? NHL 15 (xbox 360 and Xbox One)? NHL 16? NHL 17?

    Or maybe you mean one of the NONE EA NHL games like NHL Powerplay '96 and '98? NHL Faceoff? NHL Championship 2000? NHL 2K-2K10? NHL Rivals 2004? NHL Hitz? 2 on 2 Open Ice Challenge?

    Take your pick... And these are just the ones I owned on console and/or PC.

    You're a bit on the ridiculous side, eh bud?

    Just saying you've been playing video game hockey since early 90's would have sufficed. :grimace:

    Nah, this way is better. This way he gets to grasp the entire scope of games he so casually dismissed me of playing...

    eh... bud?
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    NHL 10,11,12 was much more fun, lets get back to the cult following this game had back then, its dead today.

    You're getting 3 vs 3 arcade hockey. Hopefully it's online so you have nothing more to complain about.

    you obviously never played the older games.

    Which ones: NHL Hockey ('92)? NHLPA Hockey '93? NHL '94? Mutant League Hockey? NHL '95? NHL '96? NHL '97? NHL '98? NHL '99? NHL 2000? NHL 2001? NHL 2002? NHL 2003? NHL 2004? NHL 2005? NHL 2006? NHL 07? NHL 08? NHL 09? NHL Arcade 3 on 3? NHL 10? NHL 11? NHL 12? NHL 13? NHL 14? NHL 15 (xbox 360 and Xbox One)? NHL 16? NHL 17?

    Or maybe you mean one of the NONE EA NHL games like NHL Powerplay '96 and '98? NHL Faceoff? NHL Championship 2000? NHL 2K-2K10? NHL Rivals 2004? NHL Hitz? 2 on 2 Open Ice Challenge?

    Take your pick... And these are just the ones I owned on console and/or PC.

    You're a bit on the ridiculous side, eh bud?

    Just saying you've been playing video game hockey since early 90's would have sufficed. :grimace:

    Nah, this way is better. This way he gets to grasp the entire scope of games he so casually dismissed me of playing...

    eh... bud?

    so you've been playing videogame hockey since 1992 and you're still this bad? haha
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    NHL 10,11,12 was much more fun, lets get back to the cult following this game had back then, its dead today.

    You're getting 3 vs 3 arcade hockey. Hopefully it's online so you have nothing more to complain about.

    you obviously never played the older games.

    Which ones: NHL Hockey ('92)? NHLPA Hockey '93? NHL '94? Mutant League Hockey? NHL '95? NHL '96? NHL '97? NHL '98? NHL '99? NHL 2000? NHL 2001? NHL 2002? NHL 2003? NHL 2004? NHL 2005? NHL 2006? NHL 07? NHL 08? NHL 09? NHL Arcade 3 on 3? NHL 10? NHL 11? NHL 12? NHL 13? NHL 14? NHL 15 (xbox 360 and Xbox One)? NHL 16? NHL 17?

    Or maybe you mean one of the NONE EA NHL games like NHL Powerplay '96 and '98? NHL Faceoff? NHL Championship 2000? NHL 2K-2K10? NHL Rivals 2004? NHL Hitz? 2 on 2 Open Ice Challenge?

    Take your pick... And these are just the ones I owned on console and/or PC.

    You're a bit on the ridiculous side, eh bud?

    Just saying you've been playing video game hockey since early 90's would have sufficed. :grimace:

    Nah, this way is better. This way he gets to grasp the entire scope of games he so casually dismissed me of playing...

    eh... bud?

    so you've been playing videogame hockey since 1992 and you're still this bad? haha

    So your original plan, dismissing my experience with this series, didn't work, and now you're resorting to attacking my "skill"?

    How... Pedestrian.
  • SaveUs2K wrote: »
    The skating engine is blatantly clunky and the exact opposite of fluid. All you have to do is watch the AI skate, you know, the ones that should know how to execute it perfectly. They are constantly found spinning and not facing the puck, and when you're playing offline, the opponent AI just ignores the laws of TPS physics in order to make good plays, because it genuinely cannot make good plays if it sticks to the rules of TPS lol.

    To add on to other posts, small movements are still a nightmare. There's no good way to make small adjustments in-front of the net while keeping my shoulders square to the puck. "Oh, just do that clunky, stretched-out LT steps" No. They are useless at best. When you try to use "LT" half of the time you get stuck in the "running backwards like you're building up speed, but in reality are just high stepping your feet still until the game decides you can move again" animation. I can only imagine this must be what the devs look like if they try skating. I mean, I've seen 8 year olds generate more power and speed in their c-cuts/backwards crossovers than my apparent NHL defensemen in this game. If I don't use "LT" my guy will more than likely spin as TPS decided for me that spinning (a 270 degree rotation) was the quickest route to literally take one step "up" which should be a 90 degree rotation. Finally, top it off with the seamless puck pickups that drastically change my puck approach, all of which usually end up putting me in a worse position to protect the puck, as I just had to watch my skater do some SUPER KEWL warping/figure skating when I simply was pointing "down". Wow, what a system! Really impressed. My favorite part is when I get vacuumed 80+ feet in my own zone with no input! FLUID SYSTEM! ONLY MINOR TWEAKS NEEDED! lol....wow.

    This is the inconsistent, hot mess we still see to this day, yet we have people that genuinely think this is any more accurate of a skating representation than floating. Not saying it's less, but let's top kidding ourselves here. They're both garbage...

    To the bolded... what the hrck is that B'S you're talking about? That has literally never happened to me.
  • Santini3 wrote: »
    SaveUs2K wrote: »
    The skating engine is blatantly clunky and the exact opposite of fluid. All you have to do is watch the AI skate, you know, the ones that should know how to execute it perfectly. They are constantly found spinning and not facing the puck, and when you're playing offline, the opponent AI just ignores the laws of TPS physics in order to make good plays, because it genuinely cannot make good plays if it sticks to the rules of TPS lol.

    To add on to other posts, small movements are still a nightmare. There's no good way to make small adjustments in-front of the net while keeping my shoulders square to the puck. "Oh, just do that clunky, stretched-out LT steps" No. They are useless at best. When you try to use "LT" half of the time you get stuck in the "running backwards like you're building up speed, but in reality are just high stepping your feet still until the game decides you can move again" animation. I can only imagine this must be what the devs look like if they try skating. I mean, I've seen 8 year olds generate more power and speed in their c-cuts/backwards crossovers than my apparent NHL defensemen in this game. If I don't use "LT" my guy will more than likely spin as TPS decided for me that spinning (a 270 degree rotation) was the quickest route to literally take one step "up" which should be a 90 degree rotation. Finally, top it off with the seamless puck pickups that drastically change my puck approach, all of which usually end up putting me in a worse position to protect the puck, as I just had to watch my skater do some SUPER KEWL warping/figure skating when I simply was pointing "down". Wow, what a system! Really impressed. My favorite part is when I get vacuumed 80+ feet in my own zone with no input! FLUID SYSTEM! ONLY MINOR TWEAKS NEEDED! lol....wow.

    This is the inconsistent, hot mess we still see to this day, yet we have people that genuinely think this is any more accurate of a skating representation than floating. Not saying it's less, but let's top kidding ourselves here. They're both garbage...

    To the bolded... what the hrck is that B'S you're talking about? That has literally never happened to me.

    You won't really notice it in 1v1 modes, eh bud? ;)

    He's exaggerating of course, but sometimes your player takes on an 'AI pathway' and literally starts skating in a breakout formation without any input.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    this has to be a joke.

    Nope. It's a great skating engine. There's momentum, man. You can't just turn. You have to turnnnnnn

    Yep. This is Hockey. Hockey has physics. You want to turn 90° without consequences. Play this:

    pac-man-championship-edition-20070606050611462-000.jpg

    I bet you that game is/can be a blast to play since "the game" doesn't decide randomly whether or not your controller input will translate accurately into the game situation.

    People can say what they want about TPS, but the fact of the matter is that if you don't have a PERFECT connection online it is a nightmare to deal with. When things go bad in the game for me it's almost always controller input related and only once in a while my opponent actually opening a can of whoop-**** on me, though some games it is more legitimate than others.

    I've seen both sides of this. I've had games where everything works as intended (and it's fun when it does) and then other games where NOTHING works as intended (game literally feels broken in every way.) Thing is there usually is no in-between with this, and the in-between is where EA SHOULD be aiming for here to make things fair.

    It would just be nice to play a game where skill is the deciding factor and not the internet connection, and obviously EA is not interested in that kind of game any more. FVCK everything else and make it fair and ABLE to control.

    Sooooooooo... The problem is the connection, not TPS. But you'd have them scrap TPS because you get sh*te connection all the time?

    Interesting problem solving skills there! "Hey, my cart wheel is lose, what am I gonna do?", "EH... Just shoot the horses! They're useless since they can't pull a broken cart around."

    Holy mother of all that is holy....

    Venom, sorry, but every now and then you just like to shoot over the top and jump on the fantasy bandwagon and almost come off as a crazy person....

    Name any other game that consistently has connection issues for a good portion of its user base? Guessing NBA2K is at the top of your list? Pretty sure the game does not kill you on the control side like TPS does. I've played only a handful of online 2K and hated it. But not because of lag or whatever. It was the fact you play with a scrub player vs all stars. Plus, I am not a basketball fan in the least, but wanted to try it.

    You are right, does not mean to scrap TPS all together, but there are just soo many issues with the NHL series that I wouldn't even know where to start.... Servers? Netcode? Old servers? Lack of servers? TPS engine too heavy for online play? Bla bla bla..... When there is a connection issue, every single thing in this game does not play well at all, including the AI on your team.

    Exactly. My analogy was a bit "extreme", but it was meant to point out that people want to kill the weatherman because of the bad weather. That makes absolutely ZERO sense to me!

    NBA 2K plays HORRIBLY online compared to offline and it's not just that you're playing against All-Stars with your scrub created player. As someone who played NBA 2K's franchise mode religiously since 2K4, I can tell you that online makes the momentum based physics engine a chore to play with. But that's not a problem with the physics, that's a problem with their online code + servers. Because the game plays like an absolute TREASURE offline.

    Same with NHL.... Well... It would play fine offline, if it wasn't for the horrifically dumb as sh*te AI the EA devs thinks pass for "hockey players". And at least NHL 17 is more playable online than NBA 2K as far as i'm concerned. When the connection is truly bad, then it becomes less responsive, but I've never had anything but a hard time in NBA 2K, good or bad connection.
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    "Same thing with TPS. It might be rough around the edges"

    It's been rough since NHL 13, it just doesn't work well with online modes, it doesn't jive!

    @megadeth_600 Do you still think I'm being silly? It's kids like this, that don't appreciate when you have to put a little thought and effort into anything, that ruin it for the rest of us. Just like the mooks that complained that the AI is too "OP". Now we're saddled with AI bots that would probably fail as traffic cones instead of teammates that are capable of holding their own in a game of hockey. Brilliant!

    Well, in this case, the weatherman actually creates the weather.

    Simply put, TPS fails because of a lack of priorities. Why is it you can skate around and have fun with the puck? Why do you get agility boosts with the puck? Why does pretty much everything work better with the puck? It is simple. EA puts all their effort into offense. You can blatantly see it the moment you choose a forward position. The game just feels like a completely different team programmed the offense vs everything else.

    TPS is a fail because of a fail effort behind it when playing a defensive position. Goaltending, well, may not be TPS related per se, but it is by far the biggest fail yet.
  • Santini3 wrote: »
    SaveUs2K wrote: »
    The skating engine is blatantly clunky and the exact opposite of fluid. All you have to do is watch the AI skate, you know, the ones that should know how to execute it perfectly. They are constantly found spinning and not facing the puck, and when you're playing offline, the opponent AI just ignores the laws of TPS physics in order to make good plays, because it genuinely cannot make good plays if it sticks to the rules of TPS lol.

    To add on to other posts, small movements are still a nightmare. There's no good way to make small adjustments in-front of the net while keeping my shoulders square to the puck. "Oh, just do that clunky, stretched-out LT steps" No. They are useless at best. When you try to use "LT" half of the time you get stuck in the "running backwards like you're building up speed, but in reality are just high stepping your feet still until the game decides you can move again" animation. I can only imagine this must be what the devs look like if they try skating. I mean, I've seen 8 year olds generate more power and speed in their c-cuts/backwards crossovers than my apparent NHL defensemen in this game. If I don't use "LT" my guy will more than likely spin as TPS decided for me that spinning (a 270 degree rotation) was the quickest route to literally take one step "up" which should be a 90 degree rotation. Finally, top it off with the seamless puck pickups that drastically change my puck approach, all of which usually end up putting me in a worse position to protect the puck, as I just had to watch my skater do some SUPER KEWL warping/figure skating when I simply was pointing "down". Wow, what a system! Really impressed. My favorite part is when I get vacuumed 80+ feet in my own zone with no input! FLUID SYSTEM! ONLY MINOR TWEAKS NEEDED! lol....wow.

    This is the inconsistent, hot mess we still see to this day, yet we have people that genuinely think this is any more accurate of a skating representation than floating. Not saying it's less, but let's top kidding ourselves here. They're both garbage...

    To the bolded... what the hrck is that B'S you're talking about? That has literally never happened to me.

    80 feet may be a slight exaggeration here, but there are games where it feels like you "get stuck" to everything (other skaters, nets, boards, etc) all game long and that velcro effect keeps you from being able to just maneuver your player efficiently. I'm not sure if that's what the OP is talking about, but it did remind me of that issue that I see a lot of.
  • TPS is needed. Can't go back to asphalt hockey. Needs tweaks.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited April 2017

    Well, in this case, the weatherman actually creates the weather.

    Simply put, TPS fails because of a lack of priorities. Why is it you can skate around and have fun with the puck? Why do you get agility boosts with the puck? Why does pretty much everything work better with the puck? It is simple. EA puts all their effort into offense. You can blatantly see it the moment you choose a forward position. The game just feels like a completely different team programmed the offense vs everything else.

    TPS is a fail because of a fail effort behind it when playing a defensive position. Goaltending, well, may not be TPS related per se, but it is by far the biggest fail yet.

    I disagree. I think that if EA would let TPS stand on its own, if they would allow it to be as realistic as possible, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Instead the devs are forced to try to "enhance" realism. That's what kills this engine.

    When you can "glide" to enhance your puck control and agility. When you can hold your stick out and become immune to physical hits, poke checks and stick lifts. When your forwards have so much lateral acceleration WITH the puck that they can basically flip the bird at things like shifting your weight and momentum while defensemen WITHOUT the puck must deal with those things...

    And then there's the online factor, which comes in from time to time and throws its OWN monkey wrench into the mix.

    It's not TPS that fails. It's all the things that surround it to try to enhance it. You can't "enhance" realism and expect things to go smoothly. That's what FAILS.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    TPS fails because of online lag, fat man lag, delay, latency, etc.

    Because of this TPS doesn't fail for everyone, but it does for everyone who has poor routing/too many hops to EA servers, etc.

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    Well, in this case, the weatherman actually creates the weather.

    Simply put, TPS fails because of a lack of priorities. Why is it you can skate around and have fun with the puck? Why do you get agility boosts with the puck? Why does pretty much everything work better with the puck? It is simple. EA puts all their effort into offense. You can blatantly see it the moment you choose a forward position. The game just feels like a completely different team programmed the offense vs everything else.

    TPS is a fail because of a fail effort behind it when playing a defensive position. Goaltending, well, may not be TPS related per se, but it is by far the biggest fail yet.

    I disagree. I think that if EA would let TPS stand on its own, if they would allow it to be as realistic as possible, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Instead the devs are forced to try to "enhance" realism. That's what kills this engine.

    When you can "glide" to enhance your puck control and agility. When you can hold your stick out and become immune to physical hits, poke checks and stick lifts. When your forwards have so much lateral acceleration WITH the puck that they can basically flip the bird at things like shifting your weight and momentum while defensemen WITHOUT the puck must deal with those things...

    And then there's the online factor, which comes in from time to time and throws its OWN monkey wrench into the mix.

    It's not TPS that fails. It's all the things that surround it to try to enhance it. You can't "enhance" realism and expect things to go smoothly. That's what FAILS.

    While I agree with all this, it isn't the culprit for sluggish turns at slow speeds. Or horrible and slow pivots at slow speeds. Or why sometimes the game makes you turn 270 degrees instead of 90...
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    "TPS is needed. Can't go back to asphalt hockey. Needs tweaks."

    To be fair, prior to TPS is was somewhere between TPS and asphalt hockey, it wasn't pure asphalt hockey.

    But the control was incredible which made for an extremely fun time playing this game. Those of us who played during NHL 09/10/11/12 would all tell you the game had a cult following (EASHL) and the beginning days of the VHL (later closed down moving everyone over to LG).

    The days of the Kontenders, White Knights, Unbreakable cycle, 9th wonder, cross crease cheese, fearless, composure, and so many more top clubs, top players, where nobody could wait to start playing each and every night, for 4 to 8 hour stints. It was a cult, it was addicting, it was the greatest gaming experience around.

    NHL 13 and TPS and removal of classic vision control turned most of this generation player base off, many played less and less and less each year after NHL 13 as the game started to feel too random, less control, fighting trying to control your skater, skater turning and doing actions virtually the opposite of what you wanted, etc.

    Here we are today, the passion for this game is gone, there is no cult following anymore, just a new generation of gamers who pat themselves on the back, sticking their chest out and saying "sim hockey is where the real players play" lol... you have no idea what being good at this game is unless you played back in those days against those players on those EASHL teams.

    I wish for those days to return.
This discussion has been closed.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!