With current technology, if they implemented full collision detection, we would all get so frustrated with the game that we would never play it again. It would become like soccer on ice, with like 5 SOG per game. It would just a complete clusterf%$k with turnover after turnover, deflection after deflection. If the pixels could be as small as REAL atomic particles in the air and our vantage point was virtualized so that we could see an react as if we were playing REAL hockey, then they could implement such a mechanism. Until then ... it's a freakin' video game.
The sooner people stop trying to blame the game for plays like this and start blaming themselves the less angry you'll get and the better you'll become.
And the sooner problems like this stopped being defended, and we all come together and say this isn't good enough EA, the sooner things like this are likely to be addressed.
Of course he could have played that differently.
You can always do something different. Insert a clip of a human goalie sitting in butterfly, square to a slow trickling shot, and the game initiates a kick save animation that moves the pad out of the way, or worse, the puck going through the goalie. Well, he could have tried to cover it up, or poke check it, or do a pad stack, or get out of position then dive back across the net. Doesn't make it right.
I've complained about this limitation to defense for years. The stick is a hologram until you hit RB, and even then, it's only a physical object at the maximum extension. That isn't acceptable anymore. We are past the point of a transition year where something like that gets fixed. Defenders need better tools, and this is a prime example why.
Exactly. Don't know why people defend this nonsense. This is why I have absolutely no faith in defensive skill stick. Because plays like this happen all of the time so what's the point of having your stick in good position (as it is here) if things are just going to physically pass through them.
Ok, So then here's my question: How was this game liked SO much more 5-8 years ago with worse technology?
Because things worked when you did them. It may have been a little bit over the top but at least when you wanted to turn, you turned, when you wanted to stop could could stop, when you poked, you would aim at the puck, etc.
Ok, So then here's my question: How was this game liked SO much more 5-8 years ago with worse technology?
Because things worked when you did them. It may have been a little bit over the top but at least when you wanted to turn, you turned, when you wanted to stop could could stop, when you poked, you would aim at the puck, etc.
Ok, So then here's my question: How was this game liked SO much more 5-8 years ago with worse technology?
For the same reason that people born between 1969 and 1983 loved the first Star Wars movie and hated the prequels, but kids born from 1997-2005 loved the prequels and look at the originals as somewhat of a curiosity. Rose colored glasses. The game now has plenty of problems, but the game back then did too. Many were just too young and too new to the experience of playing a sports game to notice these flaws, but as they get older the flaws become more apparent (it always amuses me that some of the same people who say "NHL 09 was the best!" will turn around and say "we've been dealing with the same crap since 09!"). Obviously, this doesn't cover everyone, but rose colored glasses and kiddy nostalgia play a big part.
Ok, So then here's my question: How was this game liked SO much more 5-8 years ago with worse technology?
For the same reason that people born between 1969 and 1983 loved the first Star Wars movie and hated the prequels, but kids born from 1997-2005 loved the prequels and look at the originals as somewhat of a curiosity. Rose colored glasses. The game now has plenty of problems, but the game back then did too. Many were just too young and too new to the experience of playing a sports game to notice these flaws, but as they get older the flaws become more apparent (it always amuses me that some of the same people who say "NHL 09 was the best!" will turn around and say "we've been dealing with the same crap since 09!"). Obviously, this doesn't cover everyone, but rose colored glasses and kiddy nostalgia play a big part.
Definitely agree. I remember poking sometimes didn't work and passes would go through defenders, however I VERY RARELY ever got the impression that when I lost, that it wasn't my fault.
I've played 9 full online VS games this year (and I used to absolutely love this mode, was always in the top 100 and I just loved how fun it was and how the top guys were usually the top guys, regardless of if they cheesed or not). Now, I think I have 3 losses. 2 of those losses I've tripled the other team in shots, and probably quadrupled to maybe 5 times the amount of good scoring opportunities that should result in goals. I'll give one game as a game I should have lost because it was close and could have gone either way. But this happens so often. Even when I win I'm sitting there afterwards telling myself, "This is why I stopped playing this mode. I should have won by 5 goals and instead I beat this bum in the shootouts?! How many one-timers from the slot, picked corners from great scoring positions and walk-ins can one have in a game and I still didn't blow this guy who only takes snap shots from the point upon entering the zone out of the water?!"
Back then you could cycle so much, trust where your passes were aimed and not have this constant fear of "I bet you this stupid shot is going to trickle in".
Well, the player base online wasn't rose colored glasses lol. EASHL was thriving and NHL was a very popular online game. Now it's a punchline. There's no denying that.
The sooner people stop trying to blame the game for plays like this and start blaming themselves the less angry you'll get and the better you'll become.
And the sooner problems like this stopped being defended, and we all come together and say this isn't good enough EA, the sooner things like this are likely to be addressed.
Of course he could have played that differently.
You can always do something different. Insert a clip of a human goalie sitting in butterfly, square to a slow trickling shot, and the game initiates a kick save animation that moves the pad out of the way, or worse, the puck going through the goalie. Well, he could have tried to cover it up, or poke check it, or do a pad stack, or get out of position then dive back across the net. Doesn't make it right.
I've complained about this limitation to defense for years. The stick is a hologram until you hit RB, and even then, it's only a physical object at the maximum extension. That isn't acceptable anymore. We are past the point of a transition year where something like that gets fixed. Defenders need better tools, and this is a prime example why.
Welcome to videogames in a nutshell. There's always going to be a case for stuff like this. Especially in sports titles. You adjust and learn to play with what you got, like everyone else has to...or you do what the title of the thread is.
Ah, so, shutup and be happy with what you got or ****.
I think when it comes to high level stuff like this, yeah pretty much. Being able to fluidly and accurately control how farto stretch a characters arm out from his body would be some next level **** in the industry.
Not necessary. The game should be able to handle this automatically; When RB is pressed stick is extended at the direction of the puck and as far as the distance to the puck or to max range if the pucks out of reach. If there's skates in the way then it's a trip, if forward inputs fancy deak (well-timed ofc) the poke might miss.
In OP's scenario where he's doing an aggressive forward skating poke this could lead to a bad burn. However in OPs case the attacker is suprised and does not execute appropriate deke therefore OP should win this scenario.
With current technology, if they implemented full collision detection, we would all get so frustrated with the game that we would never play it again. It would become like soccer on ice, with like 5 SOG per game. It would just a complete clusterf%$k with turnover after turnover, deflection after deflection. If the pixels could be as small as REAL atomic particles in the air and our vantage point was virtualized so that we could see an react as if we were playing REAL hockey, then they could implement such a mechanism. Until then ... it's a freakin' video game.
That's a fine thing but I want to try it FOR MYSELF!! I want to play FULL COLLISION for MYSELF to be able to decide IF I like it or not. FULL COLLISION could be the best thing since sliced bread OR it could be the worst idea ever BUT WE will never know since all we have to go on is the EA Devs word.
Again, My friends told me I would LIKE Sushi, when I TRIED IT FOR MYSELF, I found it to be disgusting and gross.
EA can produce 3 on 3 ARCADE with Big Heads and Teeny Tiny Goalies and Rocket Shots and Flaming Pucks but won't LET US TRY a 3 on 3 FULL COLLISION for OURSELVES so WE can determine if it's the direction this series to go....hell make it a Beta...just something to give the buying Consumers a chance to see it in action for THEMSELVES with their own eyes
Can FULL Collision be any worse than what we got now??
So what if there is only 5 SOG per game, how is that ANY WORSE than 49 SOG with NO GOAL but yet in the same game your opponent takes 4 SOG and ends up with 2G (puck physically passes through goalies blocker and results in goal #1, his stick poke check physically passes through the goalies (butterfly) pad resulting in goal #2), how is that Garbage WORSE than only 5 SOG??
Some decent points stated above. You guys need to realize one thing about that clip tho... the defenders stick never actually touches the puck. It actually make contact with the lower half of the stick. That does not warrant a successful poke check in my opinion.
Now that being said, is there a problem with the poke check mechanic in the game overall? Yes I think so. Because the offensive player makes no attempt to shield or dangle the puck in that clip that poke really shoulda been money in the bank but current game mechanics don't allow that.
Maybe if the game doesnt give us a defensive skill stick the poke check is reprogrammed to detect the puck so when you hit poke, it's automatically aimed for the puck like 2 magnets.
I still stick to my guns that if the defender had cut back rather than forward after missing that poke he'd have been able to null him out and this would probably have been a non issue.
Some decent points stated above. You guys need to realize one thing about that clip tho... the defenders stick never actually touches the puck. It actually make contact with the lower half of the stick. That does not warrant a successful poke check in my opinion.
Now that being said, is there a problem with the poke check mechanic in the game overall? Yes I think so. Because the offensive player makes no attempt to shield or dangle the puck in that clip that poke really shoulda been money in the bank but current game mechanics don't allow that.
Maybe if the game doesnt give us a defensive skill stick the poke check is reprogrammed to detect the puck so when you hit poke, it's automatically aimed for the puck like 2 magnets.
I still stick to my guns that if the defender had cut back rather than forward after missing that poke he'd have been able to null him out and this would probably have been a non issue.
True but IF Full Collision is on, might that been a different scenario?
I've been in (as what I can see with my naked eyes on the tv) perfect position (block a shot, hit someone) and they are able to maintain control of the puck through my body or warp past me. Ride them into the boards and they bounce off of them in better position than they were before I rode them in.
Would Full Collision being ON prevent these idiosyncrasies from happening in the First Place?
Some decent points stated above. You guys need to realize one thing about that clip tho... the defenders stick never actually touches the puck. It actually make contact with the lower half of the stick. That does not warrant a successful poke check in my opinion.
Now that being said, is there a problem with the poke check mechanic in the game overall? Yes I think so. Because the offensive player makes no attempt to shield or dangle the puck in that clip that poke really shoulda been money in the bank but current game mechanics don't allow that.
Maybe if the game doesnt give us a defensive skill stick the poke check is reprogrammed to detect the puck so when you hit poke, it's automatically aimed for the puck like 2 magnets.
I still stick to my guns that if the defender had cut back rather than forward after missing that poke he'd have been able to null him out and this would probably have been a non issue.
True but IF Full Collision is on, might that been a different scenario?
I've been in (as what I can see with my naked eyes on the tv) perfect position (block a shot, hit someone) and they are able to maintain control of the puck through my body or warp past me. Ride them into the boards and they bounce off of them in better position than they were before I rode them in.
Would Full Collision being ON prevent these idiosyncrasies from happening in the First Place?
Yes.
I totally understand what you guys are getting at and I'm in 100% agreement. I just think for the clip in this particular thread, it was user error.
^But it shouldn't be. We need to stop defending this game. We can say over and over again "Well that's the mechanics of the game" all we want.
If the best shot to take was a snap shot just entering the blue line and it consistently went in, would we all say "Well that's just how the game works and we should try to defend that play better"? No. Because it shouldn't happen. Just like this play should have never happened. The puck is right there, if he pokes, what happens in the clip happens, if he stick lifts, it turns into a high stick because lord knows the stick lifts rarely aim well. So if he goes for a hit he's getting burned also. He literally had one play and the game decided it didn't want him to get that puck.
As much as I hate defending Cogs, for once he's right. There's no excuse for this terrible offensive move to beat him. Skates right into the guy and gets rewarded for it. It happens SOOOOOO MUCH in this game.
And that's why it doesn't take skill to win anymore.
Don't see the huge issue with that either. I see the stick going through the legs there but if the was an animation where the pulls his stick up and over or drags his stick behind him a bit so it doesn't actually pass through his legs that is 100% a hockey play. 35 years of actual ice hockey experience tells me so. (Yes I'm that old).
Again, I see user error. Looked to me you tried to land a hit rather than using your reach to chop it out. That said you could argue you were trying to shoot the puck up ice and instead the game dictated hit for you. That would be would be an issue imo.
This game doesn't have the fine movement to avoid minor contact like in the clip. It probably never will. I'm not trying to bust balls here but I've played this game long enough to know people have a lot more control than they think and decision making should be accountable.
Don't see the huge issue with that either. I see the stick going through the legs there but if the was an animation where the pulls his stick up and over or drags his stick behind him a bit so it doesn't actually pass through his legs that is 100% a hockey play. 35 years of actual ice hockey experience tells me so. (Yes I'm that old).
Again, I see user error. Looked to me you tried to land a hit rather than using your reach to chop it out. That said you could argue you were trying to shoot the puck up ice and instead the game dictated hit for you. That would be would be an issue imo.
This game doesn't have the fine movement to avoid minor contact like in the clip. It probably never will. I'm not trying to bust balls here but I've played this game long enough to know people have a lot more control than they think and decision making should be accountable.
Puck chop is the better option.
Like your opponent purposely running his goalie into the path of an attacking forward and EA GIVING THE FORWARD THE PENALTY....so as a Human controlled Forward I'm supposed to be accountable for my actions but the Human controlled Goalie is not??
I have NO CONTROL over my poke check physically passing through the puck, rendering my poke check USELESS
I have NO CONTROL over my stick lift physically passing through opponents stick, rendering my stick lift USELESS
I have NO CONTROL when I flatten an opponent and my player doesn't pick up the loose puck because the opponent is able to bounce right back up and retain control of the puck like nothing happened
Again, instead of instantly trying to blame the game for everything that doesn't go your way or everything that is not yet fully realistic, take some accountability, blame yourself. It'll only make you better.
Same thing as cogs clip, loop this play inch for inch and there are probably multiple ways you could defend that and be successful.
I watched the clip once and I immediately thought that you could have chopped the puck down ice which would have avoided that goal.
Don't look at things like this and say, 'wow this game sucks it's so unrealistic, I should have had that'.. It's only going to make you mad, make you play worse, cost you money because you threw your controller
Look at plays like this and say, 'damn that was the wrong play, I should have chopped it'. This mindset will only make you better.
I'm not trying to defend the game or say that everything is good about it or that you should never bring things up that are bad, etc. Until specific issues improve, the game is what it is, you have to deal with it.
Yes there are some things that are out of our control (pucks going through goalies, things like that). But be accountable when you can and stop with the mentality of blaming the game. That mentality is never ever going to help you.
I think what people fail to realize is that this is just a videogame. It's never gonna be perfect. You just use what's available to you.
Playing defence isn't easy. It takes a special set of skills and mindset. There's a reason it take young professional defencemen more time to develop than forwards. You need to be able to assess odds and act accordingly very, very quickly and what worked once may not twice.
I personally refuse to use the game as a scapegoat when things don't go my way. It becomes way too easy to void accountability then. When something does go sideways on me, let it roll off and on the the next play. It is after all just a game and no one makes me play it. But it's a game that most definitely could be improved on. I just don't see it in this particular thread.
Perhaps we'll all be in agreement in the next one.
Replies
Exactly. Don't know why people defend this nonsense. This is why I have absolutely no faith in defensive skill stick. Because plays like this happen all of the time so what's the point of having your stick in good position (as it is here) if things are just going to physically pass through them.
Because things worked when you did them. It may have been a little bit over the top but at least when you wanted to turn, you turned, when you wanted to stop could could stop, when you poked, you would aim at the puck, etc.
Bingo.
For the same reason that people born between 1969 and 1983 loved the first Star Wars movie and hated the prequels, but kids born from 1997-2005 loved the prequels and look at the originals as somewhat of a curiosity. Rose colored glasses. The game now has plenty of problems, but the game back then did too. Many were just too young and too new to the experience of playing a sports game to notice these flaws, but as they get older the flaws become more apparent (it always amuses me that some of the same people who say "NHL 09 was the best!" will turn around and say "we've been dealing with the same crap since 09!"). Obviously, this doesn't cover everyone, but rose colored glasses and kiddy nostalgia play a big part.
Definitely agree. I remember poking sometimes didn't work and passes would go through defenders, however I VERY RARELY ever got the impression that when I lost, that it wasn't my fault.
I've played 9 full online VS games this year (and I used to absolutely love this mode, was always in the top 100 and I just loved how fun it was and how the top guys were usually the top guys, regardless of if they cheesed or not). Now, I think I have 3 losses. 2 of those losses I've tripled the other team in shots, and probably quadrupled to maybe 5 times the amount of good scoring opportunities that should result in goals. I'll give one game as a game I should have lost because it was close and could have gone either way. But this happens so often. Even when I win I'm sitting there afterwards telling myself, "This is why I stopped playing this mode. I should have won by 5 goals and instead I beat this bum in the shootouts?! How many one-timers from the slot, picked corners from great scoring positions and walk-ins can one have in a game and I still didn't blow this guy who only takes snap shots from the point upon entering the zone out of the water?!"
Back then you could cycle so much, trust where your passes were aimed and not have this constant fear of "I bet you this stupid shot is going to trickle in".
Not necessary. The game should be able to handle this automatically; When RB is pressed stick is extended at the direction of the puck and as far as the distance to the puck or to max range if the pucks out of reach. If there's skates in the way then it's a trip, if forward inputs fancy deak (well-timed ofc) the poke might miss.
In OP's scenario where he's doing an aggressive forward skating poke this could lead to a bad burn. However in OPs case the attacker is suprised and does not execute appropriate deke therefore OP should win this scenario.
That's a fine thing but I want to try it FOR MYSELF!! I want to play FULL COLLISION for MYSELF to be able to decide IF I like it or not. FULL COLLISION could be the best thing since sliced bread OR it could be the worst idea ever BUT WE will never know since all we have to go on is the EA Devs word.
Again, My friends told me I would LIKE Sushi, when I TRIED IT FOR MYSELF, I found it to be disgusting and gross.
EA can produce 3 on 3 ARCADE with Big Heads and Teeny Tiny Goalies and Rocket Shots and Flaming Pucks but won't LET US TRY a 3 on 3 FULL COLLISION for OURSELVES so WE can determine if it's the direction this series to go....hell make it a Beta...just something to give the buying Consumers a chance to see it in action for THEMSELVES with their own eyes
Can FULL Collision be any worse than what we got now??
So what if there is only 5 SOG per game, how is that ANY WORSE than 49 SOG with NO GOAL but yet in the same game your opponent takes 4 SOG and ends up with 2G (puck physically passes through goalies blocker and results in goal #1, his stick poke check physically passes through the goalies (butterfly) pad resulting in goal #2), how is that Garbage WORSE than only 5 SOG??
Now that being said, is there a problem with the poke check mechanic in the game overall? Yes I think so. Because the offensive player makes no attempt to shield or dangle the puck in that clip that poke really shoulda been money in the bank but current game mechanics don't allow that.
Maybe if the game doesnt give us a defensive skill stick the poke check is reprogrammed to detect the puck so when you hit poke, it's automatically aimed for the puck like 2 magnets.
I still stick to my guns that if the defender had cut back rather than forward after missing that poke he'd have been able to null him out and this would probably have been a non issue.
True but IF Full Collision is on, might that been a different scenario?
I've been in (as what I can see with my naked eyes on the tv) perfect position (block a shot, hit someone) and they are able to maintain control of the puck through my body or warp past me. Ride them into the boards and they bounce off of them in better position than they were before I rode them in.
Would Full Collision being ON prevent these idiosyncrasies from happening in the First Place?
Yes.
I totally understand what you guys are getting at and I'm in 100% agreement. I just think for the clip in this particular thread, it was user error.
If the best shot to take was a snap shot just entering the blue line and it consistently went in, would we all say "Well that's just how the game works and we should try to defend that play better"? No. Because it shouldn't happen. Just like this play should have never happened. The puck is right there, if he pokes, what happens in the clip happens, if he stick lifts, it turns into a high stick because lord knows the stick lifts rarely aim well. So if he goes for a hit he's getting burned also. He literally had one play and the game decided it didn't want him to get that puck.
As much as I hate defending Cogs, for once he's right. There's no excuse for this terrible offensive move to beat him. Skates right into the guy and gets rewarded for it. It happens SOOOOOO MUCH in this game.
And that's why it doesn't take skill to win anymore.
Again, I see user error. Looked to me you tried to land a hit rather than using your reach to chop it out. That said you could argue you were trying to shoot the puck up ice and instead the game dictated hit for you. That would be would be an issue imo.
This game doesn't have the fine movement to avoid minor contact like in the clip. It probably never will. I'm not trying to bust balls here but I've played this game long enough to know people have a lot more control than they think and decision making should be accountable.
Puck chop is the better option.
Like your opponent purposely running his goalie into the path of an attacking forward and EA GIVING THE FORWARD THE PENALTY....so as a Human controlled Forward I'm supposed to be accountable for my actions but the Human controlled Goalie is not??
I have NO CONTROL over my poke check physically passing through the puck, rendering my poke check USELESS
I have NO CONTROL over my stick lift physically passing through opponents stick, rendering my stick lift USELESS
I have NO CONTROL when I flatten an opponent and my player doesn't pick up the loose puck because the opponent is able to bounce right back up and retain control of the puck like nothing happened
Again, instead of instantly trying to blame the game for everything that doesn't go your way or everything that is not yet fully realistic, take some accountability, blame yourself. It'll only make you better.
Same thing as cogs clip, loop this play inch for inch and there are probably multiple ways you could defend that and be successful.
I watched the clip once and I immediately thought that you could have chopped the puck down ice which would have avoided that goal.
Don't look at things like this and say, 'wow this game sucks it's so unrealistic, I should have had that'.. It's only going to make you mad, make you play worse, cost you money because you threw your controller
Look at plays like this and say, 'damn that was the wrong play, I should have chopped it'. This mindset will only make you better.
I'm not trying to defend the game or say that everything is good about it or that you should never bring things up that are bad, etc. Until specific issues improve, the game is what it is, you have to deal with it.
Yes there are some things that are out of our control (pucks going through goalies, things like that). But be accountable when you can and stop with the mentality of blaming the game. That mentality is never ever going to help you.
Playing defence isn't easy. It takes a special set of skills and mindset. There's a reason it take young professional defencemen more time to develop than forwards. You need to be able to assess odds and act accordingly very, very quickly and what worked once may not twice.
I personally refuse to use the game as a scapegoat when things don't go my way. It becomes way too easy to void accountability then. When something does go sideways on me, let it roll off and on the the next play. It is after all just a game and no one makes me play it. But it's a game that most definitely could be improved on. I just don't see it in this particular thread.
Perhaps we'll all be in agreement in the next one.
Peace out.