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It's too much, EA... Too much.

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So yeah...

Sorry for the quality of the narration and the low level of polish in this video, I threw it together hastily last night IMMEDIATELY after that game happened. I am working on something with a little more polish in the future: VeNOM's Crease as you can see by the watermark logo in the bottom right corner. More on that another time.

But I just couldnt' sit still and not share something this monumentally disturbing, so mind bending, so.... Just watch the clip and respond if you'd like to share a few thoughts.

Replies

  • megadeth_600
    1437 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Not gonna break everything down, but at 10:50 that is rather interesting. The puck just ignores all laws of physics and get magnetized to the goalie's 🎃🎃🎃🎃. I think it is a good demonstration of how bad the relationship between animations and programming is. Only logical conclusion I see is the the goalie's animation over rides any laws of physics and ignores puck trajectory.

    As for the huge rebound on the next goal, well I think it is really obvious here: No one at EA has ever played goalie nor has a passion for the position. You are basically asking amateurs to program professional goalies that have played and trained many years to perfect their technique. I think it is obvious an amateur cannot mimic years and years of training.
  • Two really bad goaltenders playing at high school level.
  • BSDShoes wrote: »
    Two really bad goaltenders playing at high school level.

    The way the game made us look that game, I don't think two blind men with pillows strapped to their legs attempting to stop bullets could do worse...
  • they keep ignoring what is being stated as obvious. the more animations they add the worse the game is getting. on top of that i feel like the overhaul to various physics have been atrocious and when you combine the two together you get this cluster 🎃🎃🎃🎃.

    but there's so many beer league bums out there that have embraced absolutely trash ugly "hockey" as real hockey because they have no talent that you have people coming in here saying this is real hockey. I've been around hockey my entire life but for the most part only talented kids as they move through AAA into high juniors and some even professional. So my perspective is this almost resembles what bad hockey players look like.

    of course this can all be worked around, and you can find to play the game as it is but that shouldn't stop us from pointing out all of the problems. although I don't know why we bother as they rarely listen to the real issues and even more rarely ever fix them.
  • This video shows all that's wrong with this game for goalies in OTP/EASHL. The amount of trash goals that go in, in this game is absolutely ridiculous,it's by far the worst that it's ever been. Playing goalie is hard enough in this game and has been for years, but trash like in this video, and basically every game you play as a goalie is just too much.
  • Yeah goalie this year is one step forward two steps back. Lot's of potential but they need to patch it up.
  • @jmwalsh8888 Actually, if anything, this game doesn't have ENOUGH animations to deal with every type of save a goalie can (and will) do. When the game has to PULL your on ice avatar a foot or two to the side to accommodate for a save animation, there's something wrong.

    More so when the animations it pulls you over for are going to whiff 99.9% of the time anyways.

    @dr_shooter Garbage goals happen in the NHL and at lower hockey levels. When I got older I used to play with a bunch of older dudes in a gym and there were some funny bounces that went in every now and then. But even at THAT level, I've never seen over 60% of the goals go in this way. It's unreal!!
  • Yeah, garbage goals happen in real life of course, however, pucks don't go through pads in real life, as they do in this game. Goalies don't stand there, frozen as a puck goes by without moving a limb to try and save it, as in this game,; the ridiculous snipes etc, and I could go on and on and on, with example after example of things like this. I have plenty of highlights saved just like your video of absolutely ridiculous goals.

    But, all of us long time goalies know about these in this game. It's just hard for me to comprehend how goalies were better in NHL 11/12/13/14 on the old gen, than they are in NHL 17 on the new gen.

    Everything in the construction of this game is about scoring goals, that's it.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    To be fair, the offense has always been OP in EA's NHL series. Scoring goals sells more than stopping them. That said, I thought the human goalies were at their pinnacle in NHL 14, even though they were less than "realistic". We had the ability to move freely and precisely where we wanted to and goals scored felt earned, on both sides of the ice. Yes there were glitch goals, but in a full human vs human game (6v6), it didn't affect the outcome of a game as much.

    Like I said in the video though, I'm not sold on the idea that the devs have programmed the game to have "momentum" or "ice-tilt". But it's clear that something is wrong in the game's code. Maybe some of the probability calculations are a little off which results in too many "Dubya-tee-eff" moments. I know for a fact that in some games, probabilities can be "controlled" to favour one or more aspects of a game that could be random, so as to avoid frustration in the user.

    Things like pucks deflecting or being knocked away have an uncanny ability to always find someone's stick perfectly as if that player was meant to be at the exact spot and time to pick up a lose puck that seems to be magically aimed at their stick blade. Whatever it is that is causing this, I don't believe it's just "random occurance". I won't be convinced that 9 times out of 10, a deflected puck will somehow ALWAYS end up on someone's stick without fail.

    That's not "random".
  • You still play goalie? Damn you must have some ridiculous patience. I pretty much gave up on playing goalie, and depending how the next patch is I'm most likely done with this series for good. I usually complain on here but still preorder, but I don't think any hype or beta can get me excited for this series anymore.
  • I could not agree more with your video and comments reguarding human goalies. Im new here, and i just had to make an account. Goaltending is much worse than 16' despite new mechanics and somewhat smoother post to post feel. Offense has always and will always be the main focus while defense and goalie will always be crapped on.

    HUMAN GOALIE FIXES:
    -We need faster lateral movement. Goalies are way to slow.
    -Short side is still a problem. I can be in very good position and the goalie doesn't attempt a shoulder save. I feel like there should be some sort of new save animation to help goalies out with this short side cheese, but not all the time. Throw the shoulder up or something to stop this short side crap, ESPECIALLY when I'm hugging the post. It just cannot happen.
    - Post hugging, though improved, is still clunky and not fluid at all. - Why does the goalie turn diagonal and sometimes backwards facing my own net? Shouldn't happen at all
    - Goalie movement while in precision is still a tad too slow.
    - When your goalie makes a save in butterfly and you get hit by either your own teammate or the opposition, your goalie remains frozen and unresponsive (pressing "x" doesn't work...usually needs a whistle or pressing triangle)
    - Sniping human goalies is way too easy and you can be in perfect position. - This has happened to me NUMEROUS of times!
    - Im getting punished for slowly following the puck carrier, and if he shoots while im slightly moving, the goalie will practically dodge the puck and it goes in.
    -I make the save and see where the rebound has gone, but my goalie doesn't move and they score. A super delayed reaction.
    - Nothing to do with goalie, but the Computer AI in EASHL is GOD AWFUL! I cant tell you how many times ive been scored on due to their inability to make a smart play behind the net and in my zone.
    - I like the kick aspect for goalies, but I should not be held responsible for breakaways and cross crease goals (and I get kicked from the game). Defense should be held accountable too. Save % aspect grading system for goalies is trash. I can make amazing saves that don't increase that grading system, but the moment I let in a cross crease or deflected shot, my grading will decrease a ton. Ridiculous.
    - I personally feel like skating needs to be faster for goalies. I can dump a puck in and the computer AI goalie can skate out and get to the back of the net so quickly, but when I attempt to do it, I'm too slow or I'm getting caught by the invisible barrier of the net. Overall, goalie has improved, but its not fluid, its clunky and garbage goals continue to go in while in great position (yes I am aware garbage goals happen in real life). Offline, goalie is decent...online, its bad and not responsive enough. EA needs to get it together. Goalie and Defense is always getting 🎃🎃🎃🎃 on.
    -Just thought of one...There have been times where I am in the dirty bird position when I make the save and the puck ends up underneath me (Of course you have people slamming into you, poking) for a good 5 seconds, then the puck pops out. That whistle should have been blown a long time ago because the puck was not visible. Sometimes plays like that cost a goal because the whistle wasn't blown.
    -Playing a drop in as goalie, when i let up 2 goals and my team scores 5 goals in the first, all the oppositions quit in the 1st period, yet my GAA is over 4 because we couldnt finish the game is bull because of how GAA is calculated in terms of how much time is left.
    -My team is winning 3-0 (Im goalie) and the other team decides to quit with 1 minute left in the 3rd and i dont get credited for a shutout. THAT needs to be fixed. I didnt just face 16 or so shots and get punished because the other team couldnt score on me.

    Goaltending is a headache and is enough to cause a brain aneurysm.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    You still play goalie? **** you must have some ridiculous patience. I pretty much gave up on playing goalie, and depending how the next patch is I'm most likely done with this series for good. I usually complain on here but still preorder, but I don't think any hype or beta can get me excited for this series anymore.

    Being a Goalie is a little bit like... being in Love. Nobody can tell you that you're in Love. You just know it. Through and through. Balls to Bones...

    And being a goalie, means that you have a different mindset then everybody else. You have to be a bit (actually a LOT) of sado-masochist. We enjoy being punished, because frankly, nobody else does or will.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    - I like the kick aspect for goalies, but I should not be held responsible for breakaways and cross crease goals (and I get kicked from the game). Defense should be held accountable too. Save % aspect grading system for goalies is trash. I can make amazing saves that don't increase that grading system, but the moment I let in a cross crease or deflected shot, my grading will decrease a ton. Ridiculous.

    I want to touch up on this because this happened to me as well, and it happened while I was streaming: during a normal game, at some point the other team got an infraction in my zone and the ref called a delayed penalty. My team had possession of the puck and was trying to move it out of our area, so in the meantime I took a head start and started skating towards the bench, being careful to stay behind the d-men while they tried to carry the puck up the ice.

    I got to the bench and the indicator hadn't turned on yet so when I got to the bench I wasn't allowed on. A few seconds later, bench door opens, I get off and the extra attacker comes on. And that was that, I didn't think much about it.

    Until after the game, I noticed my TEAM PLAY average was a paltry 12%... I went to check the Coach's feedback and he tells me to be careful about carelessly wandering away from my crease and tells me to stay in my net: - 30%

    ...

    ...

    ...

    WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT????

  • Yea man. The coaches feeback for goalies is trash. There are times when it tells me to poke check. Now poke check is very inaccurate and no one uses it. I rarely and i mean rarely use it because of how inaccurate it is. I was a top 15-20 goalie in drop with a 3.68 GAA (and we all know how defensemen are in drop) and 79 S% with 8 Shutouts in NHL 16. I find myself to be a decent goalie. Now in 17', im getting killed with a 4.80 GAA, 69 S% and 1 Shutout (over 50 games played). Despite all these nice additions to goalies, i feel like goalie has taken a step big step back this year.
  • Youratv
    260 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    If you get 20 saves in this game you should be one of the stars. I've noticed that the 3 star ratings apply statistically in the game close to how they do in real life. So you would need over 30 saves to be a star consistently as a goalie. If you get 30 saves, ea should come to your house and give you a plaque.
    Post edited by Youratv on
  • I remember pokechecking cross crease passes in 09' or was it 10' cant remember. whatever year I played alot of goalie. lol
    I'm trying to use it more again, But I find it hard enough to move and stay in position.
    The movement is terrible, not going to say anything good about it. 2-3 butterfly shuffles to get from one side to the other near the goaline. If you can even move. Right stick slide coming up short when you need it, over shoot when you dont; If it even works at all.
  • I've seen so many goalies play the goal line this year and make some high saves that they had no business making. I swear it makes no difference if you play towards the top of the crease or not.
  • I've seen so many goalies play the goal line this year and make some high saves that they had no business making. I swear it makes no difference if you play towards the top of the crease or not.

    I agree Your better off sitting in butterfly. Ive seen them make high saves like it isnt nothing. Goalie is bad this year. No other way around it. Its been 4 weeks since these issues and other issues and yet we have no indication of when we can expect a fix. Its just unacceptable by a company.

  • I've seen so many goalies play the goal line this year and make some high saves that they had no business making. I swear it makes no difference if you play towards the top of the crease or not.

    I agree Your better off sitting in butterfly. Ive seen them make high saves like it isnt nothing. Goalie is bad this year. No other way around it. Its been 4 weeks since these issues and other issues and yet we have no indication of when we can expect a fix. Its just unacceptable by a company.

    I refuse, I mean there are situations where you have to and thats part of the position, but for a point shot or slot shot, I'm going to challenge. Everytime i think i have the movements down, something happens where my goalie doesn't react or move. It makes me second guess what i am doing. Is it me? or is there something wrong. Example holding right on both right and left stick to move right and the goalie doesn't move. Why is that happening? Are they trying to tell me to desperation save? Or does one cacel the other out? sometimes it works, like when the puck isnt in my zone.
    Maybe i'm just trying to do too much.

  • Wow those goals were.... Idk I have no words. I've started playing goalie again after a few years of not playing. While my stats are pretty good this year (20-11-3, 2.37 gaa, .765 sv%), some of the goals that go in have absolutely no business going in.

    One of the most frustrating things is the cover puck. It is so useless at times. Theres what, 3 animations for it? The reach back with your glove, the dive onto a grenade one that people use for taking out player's legs, and the classic hungry hippo one where it take 4-5 attempts to cover the puck because he misses every god damn time even when the puck is on your pad.

    Next time it happens I'll record a clip or two of trying his best at covering the puck
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