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NHL 17 Human Goalie Feedback Thread

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  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Yes, I was moving my feet, but I was trying to slightly adjust my positioning to not give him an open glove side.

    And yet, I've been able to stymie one-timer snipes while making huge slides on many other occasions. But these cross-grain shots give human (and AI) goalies all kinds of trouble.

    The more I see these types of shots go in, the more I'm convinced it has nothing to do with Defensive capabilities to stop the shot or a goaltenders ability to stop it: EA has made these shots a lot more accurate than they should be to combat Defenders and Human Goalies "new found" abilities. IF that's the case, then the game can never be "balanced" because the attacker will always have the advantage in a situation that should be "even" for both him and the defender/goaltender.

    Yes, **** can and does happen in real life, but in a videogame that is supposed to be competitive and where the human doesn't really have any kind of fidelity to recreate the inputs he would need to do in real life to prevent these situations (I.E. Full stick control for the d-men or Individual Limb control for goalies), then in an EVEN situation, the result should end in NULL.

    learn to goal line goalie better and stay still bro...rammer wants it that way, so they have buff up forwards even more by saying its only to combat goal line goalies.

    Sadly the truth. I desperately want to play aggressive goaltending and challenge shooters but with the super quick (way too quick) passing movement speed and the super agility of skaters and the ridiculously slow precision movement, we can't.

    Not to mention that it's far better to stay out of position but still in order to save shots, rather than in great position and move with the shooter because as soon as they go across the grain while you're precision moving with the puck, it's game over. Which is really sad. I hate that the goalies push into saves this year on most shots, because half the time they push into a save that real goalies do, it's to absorb rebounds into the crest but so many rebounds hit the inside arm and can't be controlled and there's almost no squeeze for us in those situations.

    Sadly this is the first year I've had to really goal line it up in order to be effective. So sad.
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    @jtricoli

    #4 issue would be the puck cover being a liability. We're in 2016 with next-gen hardware and we're still subjected to the 'Hungry-Hungry-Hippo' animation when we want to cover a puck that's in front of us?

    #5 issue is the post hug mechanic still being wonky at times. I hold up when I want to come off it, but If I happen to hold up and left or right, the game will only register the lateral input and make me slide to the other post instead of coming up and out of my net giving the opposition a nice juicy empty net shot from the slot.

    Nothing irritates me more than that. And it's why I hardly post hug. Cuz when you come out of it, for some stupid reason you come out outside of the net. Up and left from the right post hug only gets you up. How am I supposed to stop the perfect shooting ability on these perfect one time shots when I can even control where my goalie glides to?
  • And of course the other problem is if you don't hug the post the AI magically can snipe that tiny hole you leave open and score on you with your goalie unable to do anything about it. Can't hug the post because they'll score on you if you do, and if you don't hug the post oh look they still score on you.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    jonlolol wrote: »
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    I liked when right stick for goalie was used as the priority area selection for the save, if you thought he was going top right and he did, big save, no chance of him scoring if you're in position. But if you selected top right and he goes bottom left, it would be easier for him to score if you aren't in position. I think it was nhl 14 that was in, the best way in my opinion.

    You're talking about the Anticipation Stick.

    Don't want to burst your bubble, but it didn't work even close to what it intended. I played a game where I had the RS at 11 o'clock for an entire game. It made 0 difference.

    I only played a few games with it so I didn't test it out much, but if done right, I think that's the best setup for goalie with RS. Would you agree?

    NO I wouldn't agree. I would rather that the Right Stick be used to aim where you want your saves rebounded to because EA has failed to realize goalies try to direct pucks to the corners, not right back to the slot.

    X should be used as a speed modifier. Don't see why Precision movement and fast movement has to be on 2 different buttons... Base movement is precision and when you need to get to another spot quickly, or want a really aggressive slide, just hold X.


    I get your point with the directing rebounds, so forgive me for playing devil's advocate here:

    Why should you be able to kick a puck into the corner if it's shot at your pad that's closest to the slot? If you want to kick it to the corner stay on the inside of the puck or square it up to control the rebound.

    Now I know it doesn't always work like that but you can do it with positioning. Part of it is that shooters can bank it off your pad with good accuracy. But getting back to your point I think the RS would be fine the way it is if it worked properly.

    I know you are a gamechanger, but it will not change the fact that I seriously think the foundation of goalies is completely flawed and horrible. They will never make it work as well as it could with what they insist on using. They cannot have animations blend fluidly together either.

    The bolded part is the only bit I sorta disagree with: NHL 2K8 had that. It's what made the goalies in that game, to this day, far and beyond the best goalies in any hockey game, bar none. Goalies would go into butterfly save, and midway through the slide if the puck changed direction, they could seamlessly change into another save animation without having to wait to get out of the first one or magically cancel the first animation and warp into another animation. It was BEAUTIFUL!!

    It's one of the things missing in EA's NHL game that would make goalies so much better. If we could smoothly transition from one save animation to the next, 50% of our problems would vanish.

    I don't understand. I stated that EA cannot blend animations together fluidly. Post hugging there is a stutter or pause (although the "RVH" is alot more fluid). RS slides, the same. Sliding from one post to the next is horrid and slow and for some reason you have to slide to the next post. The goalie should be stretching his leg to the far post before evn trying to slide to it.

    You say you disagree, but then go on and explain how 2K8 did it so well and that is what EA is missing....

    Sorry!

    I thought you meant it couldn't be done, period. What I was saying is that EA could definitely do it since 2K did it almost 10 years ago.

    Naw. Just meant cannot in the sense that if it hasn't been done, it's because they do not know how, or lack resources or whatever do get it done. Sorry for the confusion.
  • Bring back '14 controls and movement....goalies were actualy fun to play with and playable. New gen '15 and up have been complete ****. I really wonder if EA tests this crap before they release it. How can they honestly agree "Yup! This feels perfect!".
  • strategg101
    823 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    i like the controls just need to sped up a tad. No margin for error, any latency and you cant catchup.
  • HabzSauce wrote: »
    Bring back '14 controls and movement....goalies were actualy fun to play with and playable. New gen '15 and up have been complete ****. I really wonder if EA tests this **** before they release it. How can they honestly agree "Yup! This feels perfect!".

    14 sucked and I don't want to see that version of goalies ever again.
  • HabzSauce wrote: »
    Bring back '14 controls and movement....goalies were actualy fun to play with and playable. New gen '15 and up have been complete ****. I really wonder if EA tests this **** before they release it. How can they honestly agree "Yup! This feels perfect!".

    14 **** and I don't want to see that version of goalies ever again.

    Mush as I can sorta agree, at least in NHL 14 goalies could keep up with the offense due to the unrealistic way we could do the magic carpet glide. And at least if you were in the correct position and square to the puck, you made the save 100% of the time.

    We also weren't plagued with weird a$$ goals like we are in NHL 17...
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    HabzSauce wrote: »
    Bring back '14 controls and movement....goalies were actualy fun to play with and playable. New gen '15 and up have been complete ****. I really wonder if EA tests this **** before they release it. How can they honestly agree "Yup! This feels perfect!".

    14 **** and I don't want to see that version of goalies ever again.

    Mush as I can sorta agree, at least in NHL 14 goalies could keep up with the offense due to the unrealistic way we could do the magic carpet glide. And at least if you were in the correct position and square to the puck, you made the save 100% of the time.

    We also weren't plagued with weird a$$ goals like we are in NHL 17...

    It was clunky and clearly balanced for forwards. Anticipation stick didn't work. Seriously, you felt like a 500 lbs pig and desperation saves triggered whenever they wanted too. There was not much I enjoyed about goalies on last gen. Hardly more on current gen, for that matter. But at least they tried to give us more control. Just failing miserably at it because they can't even get the basics right and insist on building upon it.
  • Well, this is my goaltending experience in a nutshell.

  • Well, this is my goaltending experience in a nutshell.


    Rofl, love it.
  • [/quote]

    Im not in top 100 becouse i do not have that many games played. I have played ECL as a goalie which is the european championship league (nhl 16) so im certainly above average. Im over 0.800 in club and we are facing the top teams since we are div 2 and 3points from div 1 atm.

    But thats not the point. The point is that i feel the goalie controls have improved and when i position correctly i dont really let in weak goals. I always blame myself for the goals if its something that i could have saved so to speak. I have had few occasions when someone shoots puck low and my goalie tries to save it with his chest tho but most of the "weak goals" come from bad positioning.
    I didnt take the time to read everones post, but the one thing that is really frustrating for me is not being able to move across the crease while holding both right on the left stick and right stick in butterfly. Not sure if they cancel each other out, but something is definately wrong there.
    Maybe my goalie was hit and frozen but it happens quite a bit when the play is in close.

    This is the very reason i stopped using RS pretty much completely.

    EDIT*

    People make good points in this thread on how to improve the goalie but it's not like it's unplayable or not rewarding to play goalie atm.[/quote]

  • sleepyT wrote: »

    Im not in top 100 becouse i do not have that many games played. I have played ECL as a goalie which is the european championship league (nhl 16) so im certainly above average. Im over 0.800 in club and we are facing the top teams since we are div 2 and 3points from div 1 atm.

    But thats not the point. The point is that i feel the goalie controls have improved and when i position correctly i dont really let in weak goals. I always blame myself for the goals if its something that i could have saved so to speak. I have had few occasions when someone shoots puck low and my goalie tries to save it with his chest tho but most of the "weak goals" come from bad positioning.
    I didnt take the time to read everones post, but the one thing that is really frustrating for me is not being able to move across the crease while holding both right on the left stick and right stick in butterfly. Not sure if they cancel each other out, but something is definately wrong there.
    Maybe my goalie was hit and frozen but it happens quite a bit when the play is in close.

    This is the very reason i stopped using RS pretty much completely.

    EDIT*

    People make good points in this thread on how to improve the goalie but it's not like it's unplayable or not rewarding to play goalie atm.[/quote]

    [/quote]

    I guess it's a matter of opinion, for me playing perfect positional goalie just to have pucks go by you 2 or 3 times a game does no feel rewarding. The only way to get a shutout it seems is if you only get 6 or 7 shots.
  • SilentCricket26
    97 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    I've found that playing way above your crease allows your character to make good solid saves. Seems that players coming into the zone and shooting right away hit you more square. Only thing is. Getting hit square in the chest doesn't equal a easy save when the puck pounces to your side some how. ( btw. Playing to high up on top of the crease even tho it's generating good saves will give you bad teamplay. " careless wandering". Which in turn can get you kicked out of the game. )

    One timers and passing need to be toned down big time. It's funny how FWRDS can hold L2 and R up prior or even the entire time crashing the net and they can get a one timer off. Some may say it's not ACC but doesn't need to be when it's that fast and you cant get over in time. Defenseman in the game have hard times getting good to perfect one timers doing it this way however a FWRD can put it top shelf corner no problem. Relying on team defense all the time to stop the Top 3 ways of scoring in this game is frustrating as hell.
    1) Breakaway
    2) Odd man Rush pass across
    3 Back Side instant one timers.

    Hell, half of the one times I let in. I barely see the the pass move let alone my guy moving fast enough to get over. using anything but RS and a prayer the puck carrier will pass it while I'm jumping over is the only way I can make those saves.

    Precision is IMO ok but it's L2 or Non precision that needs to be fixed. Mostly it's dead zone. I try to use it for when I need to get to the top of my crease on low to high passes but the directions it takes me and the way my guy turns n moves are just off or uncontrollable. I see the vision the DEVS are trying for. Precision to follow puck carrier and L2 + L to reposition but L2 movement needs an upgrade to compete with Just holding L2 + R for one timers.
  • What the he l l. Sleepy your post got submitted under my name...
  • strategg101
    823 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Think i finally found something thats working for me. We will see. Got one S.O 20 shots
    won 5 of 6 drop in games, kinda through the last one as the other teams goalie had a stellar performance with a .96 sav% he deserved it.
    Post edited by strategg101 on
  • strategg101
    823 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    My error was starting high and ending low, now i start low and challenge when needed.
    Everything that worked for me for years no longer was working due to glitchy movements while moving backwards. Challenging too much and resetting at the top of the crease as opposed to the goal line.

    Part of the problem when starting high was while moving backwards the goalie would position himself square to the puck not position him square with the middle of the net and puck.
    You see this when the puck is on the boards near the goal line and your not hugging the post. I dont think I have ever seen a goalie in that sort of position ever in the nhl. But Cogs might prove me wrong there. :lol:

    I believe that is the cause of goal line goalies. Not that realistic if you ask me, but there may be some reason for it.
  • SepiDN
    43 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    n can get you kicked out of the game. )

    One timers and passing need to be toned down big time. It's funny how FWRDS can hold L2 and R up prior or even the entire time crashing the net and they can get a one timer off. Some may say it's not ACC but doesn't need to be when it's that fast and you cant get over in time. Defenseman in the game have hard times getting good to perfect one timers doing it this way however a FWRD can put it top shelf corner no problem. Relying on team defense all the time to stop the Top 3 ways of scoring in this game is frustrating as ****.
    1) Breakaway
    2) Odd man Rush pass across
    3 Back Side instant one timers.

    ****, half of the one times I let in. I barely see the the pass move let alone my guy moving fast enough to get over. using anything but RS and a prayer the puck carrier will pass it while I'm jumping over is the only way I can make those saves.

    2/3 of those points are things that if you save you make a "gamesaver"
    1) If you play at high level the other team getting a breakway is huge mistake on your defenders and/or forwards. There's plenty of ways to take on breakeaways but the forward has the upperhand on this one.

    2) Odd man rushes are something that you can save but it totally depends how the defender plays that situation. He should give enough pressure to the puck carrier to prevent him from cutting to the middle and then trying to stay on the passing lane. Of course this is really hard and at this point someone else has already made the mistake. You should ALWAYS focus on the puck carrier first but don't overplay the corner before he gets close enough. that way you still have chance to make the save if he makes the pass.
    If the shot is good and goes to the opposite corner you probably won't make it but that is the price you have to play for your teams mistake.

    3) "back side instant one timers" if you mean pass from behind the net to the front of the net then those are pretty easy if your team actually plays correctly. If your D man is behind the net and gives pressure to the puck carrier he should not be able to do wrap around so there's not really a reason to cover the side of net. Just stay in the middle of the goal and if they get the pass to the front of the net you are already there.

    If you see your team mate makes a mistake and lets the forward loose then you have a problem if the centerman isn't holding the guy in the middle. hold the corner the forward is coming from and if he makes a pass just quickly use left stick to go to the other direction. DO NOT overplay in these situations.
    If he has room to cut to the middle use the R2+L1 to slide to the opposite corner. But again don't overplay or they have the inner corner for themselvs.

    Now that I got about 80 games played I'v had about 5 games where things just doesn't seem to go my way at all. There's few animations that happen at the wrong time sometimes.

    1) goalie trying to save with his chest even tho there's unmasked low shot. happened few times especially on rebounds.

    2) Someone passes towards the net and my goalie tries to save it even tho it's still like 1m away from the goalie AND there's a player between. So the player between me and passer gets the puck, goalie is in save animation and I can't do anything. Happened few times.

    3)Odd blocker save animation. I think most of you know what I mean. Stupidly trying to hit the puck with the blocker and ends up only partially hitting in resulting in a **** goal.

    4)Goalie interference...

    AND once when I held the corner my goalie just dodged the opposing team shot. but that's it.

    Still having save % over 80 and in last 30 games around 85%.

    Note. please don't count drop ins to how you feel like the goalie works. In drop ins you don't have defense. and if you don't have defense you can't play goalie. Simple as that. Also be aware of your surroundings. Even if you have opposing player on your left hand side but you see there's a guy on the blueline open. Prepare for the pass but DO NOT overplay. Decide before it happens that what buttons you will press in order to save it.

    oh and don't use RS. Use R2 + L1 to move fast on the crease from post to post. RS has slight delay in the animation which just slows you down.
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    I guess it's a matter of opinion, for me playing perfect positional goalie just to have pucks go by you 2 or 3 times a game does no feel rewarding. The only way to get a shutout it seems is if you only get 6 or 7 shots.

    I just did 16 save shutout yesterday but still I do agree it always seems that 1 slips trough you. Be it defenses fault or just some bounce puck that just happens to end up in the opponents stick.

    Even if you are in "perfect position" deflections should go in IMO because those are unpredictable.
    Shots should go in even if you are in "perfect position" and they do go in. Screen in front of the goalie affects the situation. Also someone using a sniper should every now and then get that shot go in from 'bad spots' which is unscreened shots because he is a sniper. He shoots precise shot just under the bar and it goes in. That sniper is so vunerable to hits that he deserves that. And if your team lets him to scoring spots 5 times in a game then that's bad defense.
    Post edited by SepiDN on
  • SilentCricket26
    97 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    EA really needs to make one timers a timed shot. If people had to actual time their RS for a shot like the manual way all the time you'd see a lot more saves and way more impressive snipers in the game. It's way way to easy for a skater to hold L2 and RS up and score. Just had a guy block a slap shot thru the slot with his stick. Pick it up and shoot n score all in one motion. All done by just blindly crashing the net hold L2 and RS.

    You've made pretty good strides IMO with player balance. Now, just make the gameplay balance. As a goalie I have to read and maybe react( since Gs still don't move or slowly move on certain passes) to a play but a skater can stand or move around holding L2 and RS all day. Not really balanced.

    Make the timing radius small so they have to semi time it/ along with the speed of the pass. Switch it to pure Manuel and allow skilled players and teams to set them up.

    There isn't to much to be down here but something has to be down. Nothing is easier than a one timer when timing isn't an issue at all.
  • The game is starting to show all its little annoying cracks and bugs. It's getting to be as bad as NHL 16. Glitches, connection screw ups, absolutely terrible passing mechanics this year for some strange reason, overly powered shots and a ton of money goals vs cpu goalies.

    Anyway, I used to like playing goalie back in NHL 14. Then NHL 16 broke goalies and made it really annoying to play the position. NHL 17 improved it alot.

    But there's still problems.

    1- When you press square to swan dive on your belly flat. Your goalie tends to not want to get back up for several seconds, not matter what button is pressed. This doesn't always happen, but when it does, it's really annoying and causes goals against.

    2- Computer goalie arms have obviously been reduced in percentage compared to previous entries. When playing goalie you could rely on computer arms of your goalie to make a glove save or blocker save if you have the angle of the shooter. Not so much anymore. Playing the angle is pretty much a crap shoot with the top corner wrist shot.

    3- Highly screwed up wrap arounds. Wrap around goals are flying in NHL 17, why? They've been jacked to auto animations so fast it's stupid. Try playing against somebody behind the net as goalie and it won't take long to discover your post to post stride is actually a full second slower than the jet fueled wrap around goals. Your only chance against these hyper quick animations is to play dead center of the crease to out race that terrible animation. It's really dumb.

    4- Great position accuracy with the left stick, but players should be able to adjust the speed of the position accuracy stick instead of pressing the button that speeds up positioning. Some players have mastered it and are doing well in goal, but for the majority of goalies, they'd want to adjust the sensitivity and speed of that motion.

    5- Collision poke check goals. There's too many collisions with goalies with super powered crease poke checks that result in goals. It wouldn't count on a real game because of the collision with the goalie.

  • ^ Don't bother, they aren't fixing ****. Just look at the patch that we all waited for a month for. ONE gameplay fix. Best patch ever, well worth the wait. Don't worry next patch they main address some of these issues and call it NHL 18.

    I seriously think that they purposely avoid fixing these blatant issues so they have something to market for their next patch AKA Nhl 18.
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