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Simulation VS Arcade

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  • I fully agree with the last 4 posts. Nailed right on the head.
  • Prime example of that randomness that needs to go away. I never purposely let the offense get behind me but I was pretty confident I could step in front of this cherry picker to intercept an easy pass.

  • Prime example of that randomness that needs to go away. I never purposely let the offense get behind me but I was pretty confident I could step in front of this cherry picker to intercept an easy pass.


    That clip just about sums up how I feel about the NHL series right now. You can do everything right, and still have the game give you a big fat middle finger that results in an easy goal for the other team.
  • Yeah... This pretty much sums up how it feels to play this game.
  • Prime example of that randomness that needs to go away. I never purposely let the offense get behind me but I was pretty confident I could step in front of this cherry picker to intercept an easy pass.


    That pass should have been picked off, plain and simple. The result, instead is:


    ce44f2fe8272a37e8569910197084b2d7ceefb4d767547a47171eae0a5c89900.jpg

  • eric57664
    240 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Maybe not picked off but definitely deflected and never should have went to the cherry picker.

    But what build were you using? If you're using puck moving, enforcer or offensive defenseman, then I tend to see this happen quite a bit. But if you're using defensive defenseman or two way, then that should have been broken up.

    EDIT: I also forgot that it also depends on what build thw passer was. If he's using offensive or puck moving D build, and you're using the enforcer, offensive or puck moving, I can see why this happened and it should happen because that's what this mode is about. Choosing the proper build but then using that build in certain situations in different ways compared to other builds.
  • Prime example of that randomness that needs to go away. I never purposely let the offense get behind me but I was pretty confident I could step in front of this cherry picker to intercept an easy pass.


    That is why this game sucks. If the devs take one thing away from this thread, let it be this video/post.

    Your randomness is out of control. The sometimes logic has to go away. It's human v. human. Passes shouldn't "sometimes" be intercepted. Passes shouldn't "sometimes" be auto-saucered for the player. Hits shouldn't "sometimes" land. Rebounds shouldn't have a tendency for either team. Puck pickups shouldn't have a tendency for either team. Momentum and predetermined scenarios have ruined your game.

    Just fix your damn game. It's been the same problems for years. Who are these game changers? How do you not walk in, have a 2 minute conversation and present these issues? It'd take 2 minutes to present the plans to send this game in a good direction again.
  • eric57664
    240 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    T0ph3rrr wrote: »
    Prime example of that randomness that needs to go away. I never purposely let the offense get behind me but I was pretty confident I could step in front of this cherry picker to intercept an easy pass.


    That is why this game ****. If the devs take one thing away from this thread, let it be this video/post.

    Your randomness is out of control. The sometimes logic has to go away. It's human v. human. Passes shouldn't "sometimes" be intercepted. Passes shouldn't "sometimes" be auto-saucered for the player. Hits shouldn't "sometimes" land. Rebounds shouldn't have a tendency for either team. Puck pickups shouldn't have a tendency for either team. Momentum and predetermined scenarios have ruined your game.

    Just fix your **** game. It's been the same problems for years. Who are these game changers? How do you not walk in, have a 2 minute conversation and present these issues? It'd take 2 minutes to present the plans to send this game in a good direction again.


    Eashl works differently. It's cat vs mouse.

    eric57664 wrote: »
    But what build were you using? If you're using puck moving, enforcer or offensive defenseman, then I tend to see this happen quite a bit. But if you're using defensive defenseman or two way, then that should have been broken up.

    EDIT: I also forgot that it also depends on what build thw passer was. If he's using offensive or puck moving D build, and you're using the enforcer, offensive or puck moving, I can see why this happened and it should happen because that's what this mode is about. Choosing the proper build but then using that build in certain situations in different ways compared to other builds.

  • T0ph3rrr wrote: »
    Prime example of that randomness that needs to go away. I never purposely let the offense get behind me but I was pretty confident I could step in front of this cherry picker to intercept an easy pass.


    That is why this game ****. If the devs take one thing away from this thread, let it be this video/post.

    Your randomness is out of control. The sometimes logic has to go away. It's human v. human. Passes shouldn't "sometimes" be intercepted. Passes shouldn't "sometimes" be auto-saucered for the player. Hits shouldn't "sometimes" land. Rebounds shouldn't have a tendency for either team. Puck pickups shouldn't have a tendency for either team. Momentum and predetermined scenarios have ruined your game.

    Just fix your **** game. It's been the same problems for years. Who are these game changers? How do you not walk in, have a 2 minute conversation and present these issues? It'd take 2 minutes to present the plans to send this game in a good direction again.

    The gamechangers can't really change anything, basically free testers. They're like mushrooms, EA keeps them in the dark and feeds them sh**.

    I agree though that problem with the game is they want to keep this random stuff in the game, it's for the sake of the casuals who play a game or two a week, to help them compete so they'll buy the game next year again.

    Hopefully the franchise will head back to competitive, skill based play, not slot machine goaltending and perfectly aimed passes bouncing off stick blades, poke checks diverting to the nearest player on the same team or going right back to the player who was poked.
  • eric57664 wrote: »
    Maybe not picked off but definitely deflected and never should have went to the cherry picker.

    But what build were you using? If you're using puck moving, enforcer or offensive defenseman, then I tend to see this happen quite a bit. But if you're using defensive defenseman or two way, then that should have been broken up.

    EDIT: I also forgot that it also depends on what build thw passer was. If he's using offensive or puck moving D build, and you're using the enforcer, offensive or puck moving, I can see why this happened and it should happen because that's what this mode is about. Choosing the proper build but then using that build in certain situations in different ways compared to other builds.

    Have to disagree about the player build selection that decided that outcome. Look at the replay. The puck goes straight through his stick blade. 0 excuses that are logical other than poor programming or collision detection. His stick all of a sudden become a ghost.

    Inexcusable.
  • Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    T0ph3rrr wrote: »
    Prime example of that randomness that needs to go away. I never purposely let the offense get behind me but I was pretty confident I could step in front of this cherry picker to intercept an easy pass.


    That is why this game ****. If the devs take one thing away from this thread, let it be this video/post.

    Your randomness is out of control. The sometimes logic has to go away. It's human v. human. Passes shouldn't "sometimes" be intercepted. Passes shouldn't "sometimes" be auto-saucered for the player. Hits shouldn't "sometimes" land. Rebounds shouldn't have a tendency for either team. Puck pickups shouldn't have a tendency for either team. Momentum and predetermined scenarios have ruined your game.

    Just fix your **** game. It's been the same problems for years. Who are these game changers? How do you not walk in, have a 2 minute conversation and present these issues? It'd take 2 minutes to present the plans to send this game in a good direction again.

    The gamechangers can't really change anything, basically free testers. They're like mushrooms, EA keeps them in the dark and feeds them sh**.

    I agree though that problem with the game is they want to keep this random stuff in the game, it's for the sake of the casuals who play a game or two a week, to help them compete so they'll buy the game next year again.

    Hopefully the franchise will head back to competitive, skill based play, not slot machine goaltending and perfectly aimed passes bouncing off stick blades, poke checks diverting to the nearest player on the same team or going right back to the player who was poked.

    Kind of agree here.

    There is one gamechanger that was always critical and helpful about the goalies. Goes to HQ 2 or 3 times and all of a sudden this is all we see from him:

    The position has improved immensely over 16.

    Now it takes "skill" to become an "elite" goalie.

    Stop crying and adapt.

    And a bunch of other **** excuses.

    The position is still sh** and barely better than 16. Unreal. Maybe they have a brainwashing booth up in dem headquarters?
  • eric57664 wrote: »
    Maybe not picked off but definitely deflected and never should have went to the cherry picker.

    But what build were you using? If you're using puck moving, enforcer or offensive defenseman, then I tend to see this happen quite a bit. But if you're using defensive defenseman or two way, then that should have been broken up.

    EDIT: I also forgot that it also depends on what build thw passer was. If he's using offensive or puck moving D build, and you're using the enforcer, offensive or puck moving, I can see why this happened and it should happen because that's what this mode is about. Choosing the proper build but then using that build in certain situations in different ways compared to other builds.

    Have to disagree about the player build selection that decided that outcome. Look at the replay. The puck goes straight through his stick blade. 0 excuses that are logical other than poor programming or collision detection. His stick all of a sudden become a ghost.

    Inexcusable.

    In eashl, player build decides every outcome. That's the game within the game and that's the whole reasoning behind the preset builds.

    If you want to pass through players, you need to have the playmaker and it makes it that much easier when you pass through an enforcer D player. Just like an offensive D player can't hit a power forward, or a grinder can't pass through other players, or a sniper can't have high puck control.

    All outcomes are based on the preset builds and how they trump one another in specific scenarios based on both sides of builds.

    So what are you talking about when you say you disagree? That's how the mode is built.

  • I was using a defensive defenseman I try to play a containment and active stick style of Defense over hitting and I use a defensive defenseman specifically so things like what happened in that video don't happen
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    I guess there's discrepancy between what's going on visually in the game, and what the player values would allow in a given situation? What I mean is, you see on screen how the puck goes straight through the stick, and obviously logically speaking, it shouldn't do that. But there this 'simulation' based on player values going on in the background, and the game compares the skill value of the player and then 'rolls the dice' to see whether he actually gets the puck or not. Oops, I guess not?

    I guess it's pretty hard to actually fit these aspects together in a way that didn't at some point look really off? As we can see from single player sliders, there are quite a few of those which can be used to adjust just things like this, so it stands to reason these settings override the actual visual output we see on screen sometimes. And it can be impossible to code the game so that it always looks seamless? But we need to accept this thing, unless we want the player stats become even more meaningless. This is not Ping-pong you know?
  • I don't care what the ratings are. Physical objects are physics objects and something like the blade of a stick should never have a puck pass through it. Terri Schiavo could have intercepted that pass. I understand why it possibly could have happened if the attribute theory is correct but attributes shouldn't override a physical object. If an offensive defenseman stick lifts a dangler or whatever the highest puck control offensive class is, his stick shouldn't pass through the other players simply because the attributes are mismatched.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    No, obviously not. But it does explain why it would happen. What we see happening is not what's actually happening in the sim engine (or whatever it should be called), and I guess the opposite happens too, especially with the AI; so something that doesn't appear physically possible, actually happens because the sim says so.

    For example, when we consider shooting, it's always a combination of things. You don't actually aim for real (you cannot aim to 'miss' the goal?) All you can do is decide which part of the goal you aim, and how you are positioned to shoot, skating etc. The combination of these and the given player's (dude on ice) skill then decide whether you actually hit the goal at all, at what speed etc. let alone score. So it's very complicated, so what would it mean demanding the 'randomness' to go away? That you'd have true manual aiming, 'loading' of the shot etc.? And what would be the point of having NHL players on ice, if it was up to your own skills alone?

    There needs to be a balance between these things, and these things shouldn't be so blatantly obvious, like in the case of puck passing through your stick, maybe it should deflect or somehow at least register hitting the stick, even if the sim decides you won't get the puck?
  • Attributes shouldn't even come up in this discussion. This was about as easy of a pass as you could possibly intercept/deflect, going nearly 50 feet before getting to the defenseman, not terribly fast, D was stopped and on his forehand, and even though it bounced a bit, it's still at stick level. Even a sniper should have stopped that one.
  • I guess this explains why a skater can send a cross-crease pass through three totally READY skaters without any of them getting a stick or body part on it, and then have the other team try one on a 2-0 breakaway and have the puck MAGICALLY hit something on the way across.
  • This sort of thing happens way too much in the game. Players use R2 with auto-aim and auto-saucer passes, and the defense can't even attempt to take it out of the air (not that this one was in the air really). Even guys in my rec league can stop these passes with a decent percentage, yet here we are wondering why the most defensive build can't stop a puck that's less than a stick blade above the ice.
  • eric57664 wrote: »
    eric57664 wrote: »
    Maybe not picked off but definitely deflected and never should have went to the cherry picker.

    But what build were you using? If you're using puck moving, enforcer or offensive defenseman, then I tend to see this happen quite a bit. But if you're using defensive defenseman or two way, then that should have been broken up.

    EDIT: I also forgot that it also depends on what build thw passer was. If he's using offensive or puck moving D build, and you're using the enforcer, offensive or puck moving, I can see why this happened and it should happen because that's what this mode is about. Choosing the proper build but then using that build in certain situations in different ways compared to other builds.

    Have to disagree about the player build selection that decided that outcome. Look at the replay. The puck goes straight through his stick blade. 0 excuses that are logical other than poor programming or collision detection. His stick all of a sudden become a ghost.

    Inexcusable.

    In eashl, player build decides every outcome. That's the game within the game and that's the whole reasoning behind the preset builds.

    If you want to pass through players, you need to have the playmaker and it makes it that much easier when you pass through an enforcer D player. Just like an offensive D player can't hit a power forward, or a grinder can't pass through other players, or a sniper can't have high puck control.

    All outcomes are based on the preset builds and how they trump one another in specific scenarios based on both sides of builds.

    So what are you talking about when you say you disagree? That's how the mode is built.

    So your saying builds determine or should determine whether another player stops being a physical entity and becomes completely transparent?
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