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MESSAGE TO NHLDev Regarding Lag/Delay/Etc...

Replies

  • KoryDub wrote: »

    yes, that.

    and i have to wonder... if there is ONE PERSON connecting to the centralized anchor point (i.e. a "game server") and that person has garbage upload and/or is streaming (further impacting their upload) or is taking game clips (i can confirm this has "fat man lag" impact immediately after taking said capture on XBOX) that everyone else is then impacted... as the game attempts to sync all to the lowest common denominator...

    just some nerd ramblings for thought.

    Correct.

    Essentially, the server does all of the game calculations and then sends it out to the users. If a user has a bad connection, the data required for calculation coming from the bad user takes it's time to get to the server. Therefore, the server's results are delayed getting to everyone else due to the one bad connection.

    Another thing to comment on from your post is the streaming aspect.

    MANY users are unaware of the capabilities of their ISP. Speedtest.net is NOT a reliable way to test the bandwidth available. There's so many variables at play that impact multiplayer gaming that SpeedTest willm simply NOT take in to accuunt.


    That being said, users feel they should be able to stream, play NHL, let the Girlfriend/Wife & Kids stream Netflix and Youtube - and STILL be able to play NHL online without issues.

    This just isn't the case, and the users get frustrated and blame 'EA's servers'.

    It's like trying to run your car on an empty tank of gas, and blaming FORD for not letting you run the car for 500 miles on fumes.

    We're blaming EA's servers because they're notorious for being awful. And the fact remains, on February 11, 2016, they updated NHL 16 and that fixed the fat man lag/home team captain lag for that game. Why it's back? I don't know. Could be something to do with how every game from the past 8 years has been a copy and paste of the previous version with slight upgrades. So this issue isn't about streaming Netflix. It's about the game's code and possibly their servers.

    Couple of key things I've noticed:

    1) the game doesn't always put you on the right server (east/west/europe)
    2) the more people there are in the game, the worse it is
    3) having a mix of people from different regions makes it worse
    4) there is a situation similar to last year's home team captain lag; I've had very laggy games even when the network monitor says my latency is 15ms... since only one person was affected from each game last year, not everyone may notice this issue

    It's also worth noting I've experienced this on Shaw and Telus as I recently switched providers.
  • I am in Michigan and I also have Comcast . I am wired. Are u using the modem Comcast rents to you are something else? A router? I don't really understand the point of a router , but I will get one if it fixes it.
  • KoryDub wrote: »

    yes, that.

    and i have to wonder... if there is ONE PERSON connecting to the centralized anchor point (i.e. a "game server") and that person has garbage upload and/or is streaming (further impacting their upload) or is taking game clips (i can confirm this has "fat man lag" impact immediately after taking said capture on XBOX) that everyone else is then impacted... as the game attempts to sync all to the lowest common denominator...

    just some nerd ramblings for thought.

    Correct.

    Essentially, the server does all of the game calculations and then sends it out to the users. If a user has a bad connection, the data required for calculation coming from the bad user takes it's time to get to the server. Therefore, the server's results are delayed getting to everyone else due to the one bad connection.

    Another thing to comment on from your post is the streaming aspect.

    MANY users are unaware of the capabilities of their ISP. Speedtest.net is NOT a reliable way to test the bandwidth available. There's so many variables at play that impact multiplayer gaming that SpeedTest willm simply NOT take in to accuunt.


    That being said, users feel they should be able to stream, play NHL, let the Girlfriend/Wife & Kids stream Netflix and Youtube - and STILL be able to play NHL online without issues.

    This just isn't the case, and the users get frustrated and blame 'EA's servers'.

    It's like trying to run your car on an empty tank of gas, and blaming FORD for not letting you run the car for 500 miles on fumes.

    We're blaming EA's servers because they're notorious for being awful. And the fact remains, on February 11, 2016, they updated NHL 16 and that fixed the fat man lag/home team captain lag for that game. Why it's back? I don't know. Could be something to do with how every game from the past 8 years has been a copy and paste of the previous version with slight upgrades. So this issue isn't about streaming Netflix. It's about the game's code and possibly their servers.

    Couple of key things I've noticed:

    1) the game doesn't always put you on the right server (east/west/europe)
    2) the more people there are in the game, the worse it is
    3) having a mix of people from different regions makes it worse
    4) there is a situation similar to last year's home team captain lag; I've had very laggy games even when the network monitor says my latency is 15ms... since only one person was affected from each game last year, not everyone may notice this issue

    It's also worth noting I've experienced this on Shaw and Telus as I recently switched providers.

    I am not experiencing the aforementioned home team captain lag this year... which was a seriously noticeable issue; about .5 second input delay. This would eliminate "game code" or the game's code or a blanket argument of "the servers" as everyone would be impacted by that.

    As far as your issues you put forth above:

    1. I haven't been shuffled to a euro server, so I can't comment on way or another on that issue.
    2. I would expect that to be the case.
    3. I would expect that to be the case.
    4. I can make that happen by simply capturing and uploading video. I still remain the 14 ms (as this is a PING to a platform) while I get VERY noticeable input delay once the capture is complete. My assessment is that by capturing the video (and uploading to Live) I have created an interrupt of my game stream on my console which created a buffer of the game traffic.

    Also, I am consistently our team's "home team captain".
  • KoryDub wrote: »

    yes, that.

    and i have to wonder... if there is ONE PERSON connecting to the centralized anchor point (i.e. a "game server") and that person has garbage upload and/or is streaming (further impacting their upload) or is taking game clips (i can confirm this has "fat man lag" impact immediately after taking said capture on XBOX) that everyone else is then impacted... as the game attempts to sync all to the lowest common denominator...

    just some nerd ramblings for thought.

    Correct.

    Essentially, the server does all of the game calculations and then sends it out to the users. If a user has a bad connection, the data required for calculation coming from the bad user takes it's time to get to the server. Therefore, the server's results are delayed getting to everyone else due to the one bad connection.

    Another thing to comment on from your post is the streaming aspect.

    MANY users are unaware of the capabilities of their ISP. Speedtest.net is NOT a reliable way to test the bandwidth available. There's so many variables at play that impact multiplayer gaming that SpeedTest willm simply NOT take in to accuunt.


    That being said, users feel they should be able to stream, play NHL, let the Girlfriend/Wife & Kids stream Netflix and Youtube - and STILL be able to play NHL online without issues.

    This just isn't the case, and the users get frustrated and blame 'EA's servers'.

    It's like trying to run your car on an empty tank of gas, and blaming FORD for not letting you run the car for 500 miles on fumes.

    We're blaming EA's servers because they're notorious for being awful. And the fact remains, on February 11, 2016, they updated NHL 16 and that fixed the fat man lag/home team captain lag for that game. Why it's back? I don't know. Could be something to do with how every game from the past 8 years has been a copy and paste of the previous version with slight upgrades. So this issue isn't about streaming Netflix. It's about the game's code and possibly their servers.

    Couple of key things I've noticed:

    1) the game doesn't always put you on the right server (east/west/europe)
    2) the more people there are in the game, the worse it is
    3) having a mix of people from different regions makes it worse
    4) there is a situation similar to last year's home team captain lag; I've had very laggy games even when the network monitor says my latency is 15ms... since only one person was affected from each game last year, not everyone may notice this issue

    It's also worth noting I've experienced this on Shaw and Telus as I recently switched providers.

    I am not experiencing the aforementioned home team captain lag this year... which was a seriously noticeable issue; about .5 second input delay. This would eliminate "game code" or the game's code or a blanket argument of "the servers" as everyone would be impacted by that.

    As far as your issues you put forth above:

    1. I haven't been shuffled to a euro server, so I can't comment on way or another on that issue.
    2. I would expect that to be the case.
    3. I would expect that to be the case.
    4. I can make that happen by simply capturing and uploading video. I still remain the 14 ms (as this is a PING to a platform) while I get VERY noticeable input delay once the capture is complete. My assessment is that by capturing the video (and uploading to Live) I have created an interrupt of my game stream on my console which created a buffer of the game traffic.

    Also, I am consistently our team's "home team captain".


    1) I have never been on a euro server either but I've read that people from Europe have connected to east servers. Furthermore, I play with 1 person from the east and 4 others from the west and 80% of the time we connect to the east server.

    2) I would expect it as well, to an extent. The game runs much worse than NHL 16 did with full teams so there is an issue there

    3) same as #2. The game is much laggier than NHL 16 under the same conditions. The game should be progressing, not performing worse, especially when the game is not much different than last year and running on the same engine

    4) last year the captain was determined by the game, as it was generally the first person to transition from the dressing room to the ready up screen. This year the captain is simply whoever picks their position first in the dressing room (something that was changed in the day 1 patch). So it's not necessarily going to be as transparent as to who will experience this issue. I can only assume it's the person who loads into the ready up screen first. So that's going to be the person who is out of sync.

    Ive done enough troubleshooting on my own for EA over the past 2 years. It's time for them to get their act together and fix their game. I'm not going to wait another 5 months for a fix. It's nice to see that the online engineers have been notified about it. A statement that they're actually working on it would be nice to see and hopefully the next step. Last year they said they had a hard time replicating the issue which is hilarious since it was a huge widespread game breaking problem. Makes you wonder if they even play this game.
  • TOhasBO wrote: »
    I am in Michigan and I also have Comcast . I am wired. Are u using the modem Comcast rents to you are something else? A router? I don't really understand the point of a router , but I will get one if it fixes it.

    I have a seperate Aris modem and a AC1900 router - two seperate appliances.

    The modem controls modulation/demodulation and it has to do with transmitting the binary 1s and 0s across a wire... it is for the most part a layer 1 device.

    The router actually routes packets and segments networks. The router is a layer 3 device.

    Most carriers and providers these days supply both functions in one box or unit.

    If you have WiFi in your house, you already have a router or router functionality.
  • strategg101
    823 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    KoryDub wrote: »

    yes, that.

    and i have to wonder... if there is ONE PERSON connecting to the centralized anchor point (i.e. a "game server") and that person has garbage upload and/or is streaming (further impacting their upload) or is taking game clips (i can confirm this has "fat man lag" impact immediately after taking said capture on XBOX) that everyone else is then impacted... as the game attempts to sync all to the lowest common denominator...

    just some nerd ramblings for thought.

    Correct.

    Essentially, the server does all of the game calculations and then sends it out to the users. If a user has a bad connection, the data required for calculation coming from the bad user takes it's time to get to the server. Therefore, the server's results are delayed getting to everyone else due to the one bad connection.

    Another thing to comment on from your post is the streaming aspect.

    MANY users are unaware of the capabilities of their ISP. Speedtest.net is NOT a reliable way to test the bandwidth available. There's so many variables at play that impact multiplayer gaming that SpeedTest willm simply NOT take in to accuunt.


    That being said, users feel they should be able to stream, play NHL, let the Girlfriend/Wife & Kids stream Netflix and Youtube - and STILL be able to play NHL online without issues.

    This just isn't the case, and the users get frustrated and blame 'EA's servers'.


    This right here combined is more then likely the reason.

    Post edited by strategg101 on
  • NHL 17 Eashl dropin My buddy from eastern canada says he is skating in mud and the controlling his player on left def is brutal , he resets router 2x logs in 2x and experiences the same issues 2 x OCT 25th . frustrated he quits for the evening. I log in ( western Canada) and take his spot on left Def. same issues about a 1.5 - 2 sec delay almost seemed like captains delay from nhl 16. 90 ms ping and 9% packet loss.
    all connections poor - fair
    I have to quit for the evening too

    I did several speed tests all over the country and no ping or packet loss.

    WTH EA?
  • Could be something to do with how every game from the past 8 years has been a copy and paste of the previous version with slight upgrades.


    I would like to bet serious money on that! That is the solution to the Lag.

    I would be happy if EA just released NhL14 for next gen. call it nhl 18 we dont care because it would be a lot better than 15,16&17
  • strategg101
    823 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    Could be something to do with how every game from the past 8 years has been a copy and paste of the previous version with slight upgrades.


    I would like to bet serious money on that! That is the solution to the Lag.

    I would be happy if EA just released NhL14 for next gen. call it nhl 18 we dont care because it would be a lot better than 15,16&17

    Could be that for the past 7-8 years more and more devices are being used on one connection. from computers,consoles, t.v's, cell phones, and such little changes in I.S.P service to accomodate the load. Always in the past every game would lag for me if multiple users were connected and either downloading or streaming. It only takes one of those things to create a noticable difference in online gameplay.
    But, Isp's are definately improving.

  • strategg101
    823 posts Member
    edited October 2016
    KoryDub wrote: »

    yes, that.

    and i have to wonder... if there is ONE PERSON connecting to the centralized anchor point (i.e. a "game server") and that person has garbage upload and/or is streaming (further impacting their upload) or is taking game clips (i can confirm this has "fat man lag" impact immediately after taking said capture on XBOX) that everyone else is then impacted... as the game attempts to sync all to the lowest common denominator...

    just some nerd ramblings for thought.

    Correct.

    Essentially, the server does all of the game calculations and then sends it out to the users. If a user has a bad connection, the data required for calculation coming from the bad user takes it's time to get to the server. Therefore, the server's results are delayed getting to everyone else due to the one bad connection.

    Another thing to comment on from your post is the streaming aspect.

    MANY users are unaware of the capabilities of their ISP. Speedtest.net is NOT a reliable way to test the bandwidth available. There's so many variables at play that impact multiplayer gaming that SpeedTest willm simply NOT take in to accuunt.


    That being said, users feel they should be able to stream, play NHL, let the Girlfriend/Wife & Kids stream Netflix and Youtube - and STILL be able to play NHL online without issues.

    This just isn't the case, and the users get frustrated and blame 'EA's servers'.

    It's like trying to run your car on an empty tank of gas, and blaming FORD for not letting you run the car for 500 miles on fumes.

    We're blaming EA's servers because they're notorious for being awful. And the fact remains, on February 11, 2016, they updated NHL 16 and that fixed the fat man lag/home team captain lag for that game. Why it's back? I don't know. Could be something to do with how every game from the past 8 years has been a copy and paste of the previous version with slight upgrades. So this issue isn't about streaming Netflix. It's about the game's code and possibly their servers.

    Couple of key things I've noticed:

    1) the game doesn't always put you on the right server (east/west/europe)
    2) the more people there are in the game, the worse it is
    3) having a mix of people from different regions makes it worse
    4) there is a situation similar to last year's home team captain lag; I've had very laggy games even when the network monitor says my latency is 15ms... since only one person was affected from each game last year, not everyone may notice this issue

    It's also worth noting I've experienced this on Shaw and Telus as I recently switched providers.

    I am not experiencing the aforementioned home team captain lag this year... which was a seriously noticeable issue; about .5 second input delay. This would eliminate "game code" or the game's code or a blanket argument of "the servers" as everyone would be impacted by that.

    As far as your issues you put forth above:

    1. I haven't been shuffled to a euro server, so I can't comment on way or another on that issue.
    2. I would expect that to be the case.
    3. I would expect that to be the case.
    4. I can make that happen by simply capturing and uploading video. I still remain the 14 ms (as this is a PING to a platform) while I get VERY noticeable input delay once the capture is complete. My assessment is that by capturing the video (and uploading to Live) I have created an interrupt of my game stream on my console which created a buffer of the game traffic.

    Also, I am consistently our team's "home team captain".


    1) I have never been on a euro server either but I've read that people from Europe have connected to east servers. Furthermore, I play with 1 person from the east and 4 others from the west and 80% of the time we connect to the east server.

    2) I would expect it as well, to an extent. The game runs much worse than NHL 16 did with full teams so there is an issue there

    3) same as #2. The game is much laggier than NHL 16 under the same conditions. The game should be progressing, not performing worse, especially when the game is not much different than last year and running on the same engine

    4) last year the captain was determined by the game, as it was generally the first person to transition from the dressing room to the ready up screen. This year the captain is simply whoever picks their position first in the dressing room (something that was changed in the day 1 patch). So it's not necessarily going to be as transparent as to who will experience this issue. I can only assume it's the person who loads into the ready up screen first. So that's going to be the person who is out of sync.

    Ive done enough troubleshooting on my own for EA over the past 2 years. It's time for them to get their act together and fix their game. I'm not going to wait another 5 months for a fix. It's nice to see that the online engineers have been notified about it. A statement that they're actually working on it would be nice to see and hopefully the next step. Last year they said they had a hard time replicating the issue which is hilarious since it was a huge widespread game breaking problem. Makes you wonder if they even play this game.

    As the games get better, so should your ISP, if its not perhaps you should talk to them.
    I know the usage is miniscule for online gaming but it does need an increase. Otherwise we would all still be playing on dial up.


    As far as the Euro servers I have no idea, but its probably more of the same. Too many users on one connection.
  • KoryDub wrote: »

    Correct.

    Essentially, the server does all of the game calculations and then sends it out to the users. If a user has a bad connection, the data required for calculation coming from the bad user takes it's time to get to the server. Therefore, the server's results are delayed getting to everyone else due to the one bad connection.

    Another thing to comment on from your post is the streaming aspect.

    MANY users are unaware of the capabilities of their ISP. Speedtest.net is NOT a reliable way to test the bandwidth available. There's so many variables at play that impact multiplayer gaming that SpeedTest willm simply NOT take in to accuunt.


    That being said, users feel they should be able to stream, play NHL, let the Girlfriend/Wife & Kids stream Netflix and Youtube - and STILL be able to play NHL online without issues.

    This just isn't the case, and the users get frustrated and blame 'EA's servers'.

    It's like trying to run your car on an empty tank of gas, and blaming FORD for not letting you run the car for 500 miles on fumes.


    I guess this would be for EASHL ?

    Because the answer im getting from EA_Tom is this:

    The mode you are referring to is peer-to-peer; this means that you or your opponent are hosting the game on your own connection. You won't be reliant on the EA servers until the match results are shown.
  • BoboFloggins
    2170 posts Member
    edited October 2016



    I guess this would be for EASHL ?

    Because the answer im getting from EA_Tom is this:

    The mode you are referring to is peer-to-peer; this means that you or your opponent are hosting the game on your own connection. You won't be reliant on the EA servers until the match results are shown.[/quote]


    Yes, as far as the server comment is concerned.

    The rest is applicable either way when it comes to gaming or networking in general.
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    There is no video that will accurately show what the skating in mud "Fat Man Lag" is like. Input delay isn't even the biggest problem when this happens, so even if I showed a video of my controller and the screen at the same time, it wouldn't look too bad.

    I've played with delay, and it's bad, but most things still work, just a half second or more late. Fat man lag is is different though. It's a really vague thing that I haven't really been able to pin down, but it is definitely "off".

    You feel really slow, but if you went head to head with a similar player type, I bet you'd be neck and neck. It's more in agility, and RS movements with the puck. A lot of my games have this fat man lag. Hitting is harder, poking is harder (the game just doesn't recognize when you connect with these moves). When do a you turn, it takes, or at least feel like it takes a larger patch of ice to complete the turn. Without lag, I feel like I can zip all over the ice, but with fat man lag, it feels like everyone is worse than an enforcer.

    Like I said, it's really hard to explain what is happening, but when you are in it, you can definitely tell.

    Also, the AI seems to play pretty **** when my team has fat man lag. They are all over the ice, out of their positions, running into me and into each other.

    So with what your explaining how do you know if the other team isnt experiencing the same thing ?

    As you said, when players/teams using different player builds this does change the speed of the game. Considering players agility and acceleration changes with regards to the player builds. Do you think maybe its because what you see is different from the last game or in comparison to your team because the other team is using different builds ?

    Or for example when playing 2's and 3's this game plays 180 degrees different then when you play with a human goalie and 4"s +.

    Playing 2's and 3's feels like your playing against such a scripted game and the bots are the best player on the other team.

    I guess there is no real way to know for sure my opponent isn't experiencing the same thing. All I have is my subjective observations.

    When I get stuck with Fat man lag, no matter what build I have, it feels terrible. A playmaker with fat man lag skates worse than a power forward without it. So when I can see my opponent skating all over the ice, in complete control, making quick cuts and making quick reaction moves, It's obvious he has more control over his player than I do.

    When it's bad, the game just completely breaks down. You can't play D, because it's next to impossible to stay by the net and track the puck, you end up floating all over the ice (plus you can't hit/poke/sticklift). You can't be effective as a forward, because you'll never dodge the defenders on the other team and your passing is really inconsistent. Goalie, forget about it.

    In my experiences, most of my games are behind this type of lag. I've done a lot of work to fix it on my end, but it's still not perfect. It is much improved though. I have lag-free games more often than I did before, and when I do have lag, it's not quite as bad as it used to be. So having said that, I know that there is something wrong because of the few games that are perfect. I can skate fluidly, and in complete control of my guy. Poke checks work. Period. They just actually work when I expect them to. I can hit the other team, or even shove them and knock the puck loose. That never happens when I have fat man lag.

    This happens in both club games of all sizes and in VS style games.

    Good description of "fat man lag." It's a constant problem for our club and we have all kinds of wild theories about what makes it worse. Most of those theories revolve around the mix of locations we're playing with and who is hosting. Sadly club tends to be worse for me than drop in games.

    PSN : GordonRamsey
    Club : Midnight Express
  • Reducto80 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    There is no video that will accurately show what the skating in mud "Fat Man Lag" is like. Input delay isn't even the biggest problem when this happens, so even if I showed a video of my controller and the screen at the same time, it wouldn't look too bad.

    I've played with delay, and it's bad, but most things still work, just a half second or more late. Fat man lag is is different though. It's a really vague thing that I haven't really been able to pin down, but it is definitely "off".

    You feel really slow, but if you went head to head with a similar player type, I bet you'd be neck and neck. It's more in agility, and RS movements with the puck. A lot of my games have this fat man lag. Hitting is harder, poking is harder (the game just doesn't recognize when you connect with these moves). When do a you turn, it takes, or at least feel like it takes a larger patch of ice to complete the turn. Without lag, I feel like I can zip all over the ice, but with fat man lag, it feels like everyone is worse than an enforcer.

    Like I said, it's really hard to explain what is happening, but when you are in it, you can definitely tell.

    Also, the AI seems to play pretty **** when my team has fat man lag. They are all over the ice, out of their positions, running into me and into each other.

    So with what your explaining how do you know if the other team isnt experiencing the same thing ?

    As you said, when players/teams using different player builds this does change the speed of the game. Considering players agility and acceleration changes with regards to the player builds. Do you think maybe its because what you see is different from the last game or in comparison to your team because the other team is using different builds ?

    Or for example when playing 2's and 3's this game plays 180 degrees different then when you play with a human goalie and 4"s +.

    Playing 2's and 3's feels like your playing against such a scripted game and the bots are the best player on the other team.

    I guess there is no real way to know for sure my opponent isn't experiencing the same thing. All I have is my subjective observations.

    When I get stuck with Fat man lag, no matter what build I have, it feels terrible. A playmaker with fat man lag skates worse than a power forward without it. So when I can see my opponent skating all over the ice, in complete control, making quick cuts and making quick reaction moves, It's obvious he has more control over his player than I do.

    When it's bad, the game just completely breaks down. You can't play D, because it's next to impossible to stay by the net and track the puck, you end up floating all over the ice (plus you can't hit/poke/sticklift). You can't be effective as a forward, because you'll never dodge the defenders on the other team and your passing is really inconsistent. Goalie, forget about it.

    In my experiences, most of my games are behind this type of lag. I've done a lot of work to fix it on my end, but it's still not perfect. It is much improved though. I have lag-free games more often than I did before, and when I do have lag, it's not quite as bad as it used to be. So having said that, I know that there is something wrong because of the few games that are perfect. I can skate fluidly, and in complete control of my guy. Poke checks work. Period. They just actually work when I expect them to. I can hit the other team, or even shove them and knock the puck loose. That never happens when I have fat man lag.

    This happens in both club games of all sizes and in VS style games.

    Good description of "fat man lag." It's a constant problem for our club and we have all kinds of wild theories about what makes it worse. Most of those theories revolve around the mix of locations we're playing with and who is hosting. Sadly club tends to be worse for me than drop in games.

    Yep... pretty solid theory.
  • Reducto80 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    There is no video that will accurately show what the skating in mud "Fat Man Lag" is like. Input delay isn't even the biggest problem when this happens, so even if I showed a video of my controller and the screen at the same time, it wouldn't look too bad.

    I've played with delay, and it's bad, but most things still work, just a half second or more late. Fat man lag is is different though. It's a really vague thing that I haven't really been able to pin down, but it is definitely "off".

    You feel really slow, but if you went head to head with a similar player type, I bet you'd be neck and neck. It's more in agility, and RS movements with the puck. A lot of my games have this fat man lag. Hitting is harder, poking is harder (the game just doesn't recognize when you connect with these moves). When do a you turn, it takes, or at least feel like it takes a larger patch of ice to complete the turn. Without lag, I feel like I can zip all over the ice, but with fat man lag, it feels like everyone is worse than an enforcer.

    Like I said, it's really hard to explain what is happening, but when you are in it, you can definitely tell.

    Also, the AI seems to play pretty **** when my team has fat man lag. They are all over the ice, out of their positions, running into me and into each other.

    So with what your explaining how do you know if the other team isnt experiencing the same thing ?

    As you said, when players/teams using different player builds this does change the speed of the game. Considering players agility and acceleration changes with regards to the player builds. Do you think maybe its because what you see is different from the last game or in comparison to your team because the other team is using different builds ?

    Or for example when playing 2's and 3's this game plays 180 degrees different then when you play with a human goalie and 4"s +.

    Playing 2's and 3's feels like your playing against such a scripted game and the bots are the best player on the other team.

    I guess there is no real way to know for sure my opponent isn't experiencing the same thing. All I have is my subjective observations.

    When I get stuck with Fat man lag, no matter what build I have, it feels terrible. A playmaker with fat man lag skates worse than a power forward without it. So when I can see my opponent skating all over the ice, in complete control, making quick cuts and making quick reaction moves, It's obvious he has more control over his player than I do.

    When it's bad, the game just completely breaks down. You can't play D, because it's next to impossible to stay by the net and track the puck, you end up floating all over the ice (plus you can't hit/poke/sticklift). You can't be effective as a forward, because you'll never dodge the defenders on the other team and your passing is really inconsistent. Goalie, forget about it.

    In my experiences, most of my games are behind this type of lag. I've done a lot of work to fix it on my end, but it's still not perfect. It is much improved though. I have lag-free games more often than I did before, and when I do have lag, it's not quite as bad as it used to be. So having said that, I know that there is something wrong because of the few games that are perfect. I can skate fluidly, and in complete control of my guy. Poke checks work. Period. They just actually work when I expect them to. I can hit the other team, or even shove them and knock the puck loose. That never happens when I have fat man lag.

    This happens in both club games of all sizes and in VS style games.

    Good description of "fat man lag." It's a constant problem for our club and we have all kinds of wild theories about what makes it worse. Most of those theories revolve around the mix of locations we're playing with and who is hosting. Sadly club tends to be worse for me than drop in games.

    Yep... pretty solid theory.

    Locations surely can come into play, but when you play online VS or HUT where it's only your connection on your side coming into play, and it shows less than 20ms and you still have a "fat man lag" issue going on then I start to question how much of it is location and how much is "something else" that EA either won't tell us or just can't figure out.
  • Reducto80 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    There is no video that will accurately show what the skating in mud "Fat Man Lag" is like. Input delay isn't even the biggest problem when this happens, so even if I showed a video of my controller and the screen at the same time, it wouldn't look too bad.

    I've played with delay, and it's bad, but most things still work, just a half second or more late. Fat man lag is is different though. It's a really vague thing that I haven't really been able to pin down, but it is definitely "off".

    You feel really slow, but if you went head to head with a similar player type, I bet you'd be neck and neck. It's more in agility, and RS movements with the puck. A lot of my games have this fat man lag. Hitting is harder, poking is harder (the game just doesn't recognize when you connect with these moves). When do a you turn, it takes, or at least feel like it takes a larger patch of ice to complete the turn. Without lag, I feel like I can zip all over the ice, but with fat man lag, it feels like everyone is worse than an enforcer.

    Like I said, it's really hard to explain what is happening, but when you are in it, you can definitely tell.

    Also, the AI seems to play pretty **** when my team has fat man lag. They are all over the ice, out of their positions, running into me and into each other.

    So with what your explaining how do you know if the other team isnt experiencing the same thing ?

    As you said, when players/teams using different player builds this does change the speed of the game. Considering players agility and acceleration changes with regards to the player builds. Do you think maybe its because what you see is different from the last game or in comparison to your team because the other team is using different builds ?

    Or for example when playing 2's and 3's this game plays 180 degrees different then when you play with a human goalie and 4"s +.

    Playing 2's and 3's feels like your playing against such a scripted game and the bots are the best player on the other team.

    I guess there is no real way to know for sure my opponent isn't experiencing the same thing. All I have is my subjective observations.

    When I get stuck with Fat man lag, no matter what build I have, it feels terrible. A playmaker with fat man lag skates worse than a power forward without it. So when I can see my opponent skating all over the ice, in complete control, making quick cuts and making quick reaction moves, It's obvious he has more control over his player than I do.

    When it's bad, the game just completely breaks down. You can't play D, because it's next to impossible to stay by the net and track the puck, you end up floating all over the ice (plus you can't hit/poke/sticklift). You can't be effective as a forward, because you'll never dodge the defenders on the other team and your passing is really inconsistent. Goalie, forget about it.

    In my experiences, most of my games are behind this type of lag. I've done a lot of work to fix it on my end, but it's still not perfect. It is much improved though. I have lag-free games more often than I did before, and when I do have lag, it's not quite as bad as it used to be. So having said that, I know that there is something wrong because of the few games that are perfect. I can skate fluidly, and in complete control of my guy. Poke checks work. Period. They just actually work when I expect them to. I can hit the other team, or even shove them and knock the puck loose. That never happens when I have fat man lag.

    This happens in both club games of all sizes and in VS style games.

    Good description of "fat man lag." It's a constant problem for our club and we have all kinds of wild theories about what makes it worse. Most of those theories revolve around the mix of locations we're playing with and who is hosting. Sadly club tends to be worse for me than drop in games.

    Yep... pretty solid theory.

    Locations surely can come into play, but when you play online VS or HUT where it's only your connection on your side coming into play, and it shows less than 20ms and you still have a "fat man lag" issue going on then I start to question how much of it is location and how much is "something else" that EA either won't tell us or just can't figure out.

    How do you know where your opponent is playing from?
  • KoryDub wrote: »

    Locations surely can come into play, but when you play online VS or HUT where it's only your connection on your side coming into play, and it shows less than 20ms and you still have a "fat man lag" issue going on then I start to question how much of it is location and how much is "something else" that EA either won't tell us or just can't figure out.


    Your opponent still needs to have a decent connection as well.

    I can't count the number of times I play a drop-in and there's countless people talking about how they're watchign YouTube and Netflix at the same time as playing NHL.

    These things will impact connection quality... yet that doesn't seem to sink in with people.

    Whenever I play ANY game online (BF1, NHL, UFC, Madden, FIFA) I always make sure none of my devices are streaming content from the web. There's the odd occasion the girlfriend streams a TV show or something to watch, and even with 35mbps connection, sometimes the routers we have at home don't manage the traffic very well, and you get 'jitter' in packets, causing some online games to lag up a bit.

    I understand that it's unreasonable to expect everyone to have an intimate knowledge of their home network, but (and this is obviously NOT a popular opinion... so bring on the hate) I think more users need to be cognisent of how their home network is running and what exactly is sucking bandwidth. MORE importantly, people need to be aware of what devices are UPLOADING content to the web.

    You UPLOAD speed is the #1 factor in your online gaming connection. Download speeds are seemingly unlimited in most ISP's (35mbps is more than enough for gaming, streaming, etc). It's the UPLOAD that REALLY makes the difference.

    And more often than not, people are streaming to twitch (UPLOAD) which takes up 2.5-5mbps (depending on stream quality). Leaving (likely) not very much left for gaming.

    Now I know a lot of people come in here saying they've got 100mbps up/down but that's likely NOT the case - especially if you're experiencing issues playing NHL.

    I have played many times against guy who lives in same block and he has the same ISP. That should be near LAN enviroment. Our ping is 4-10ms, yet there is fatman lag and input delay. This wasn't the case with old gen NHL games.

  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Greyinsi wrote: »

    I have played many times against guy who lives in same block and he has the same ISP. That should be near LAN enviroment. Our ping is 4-10ms, yet there is fatman lag and input delay. This wasn't the case with old gen NHL games.


    This just proves my point. Some of you are commenting on a technology that you don't have the knowledge to talk about.

    guy who lives in same block and he has the same ISP. That should be near LAN enviroment.

    This is absolutely incorrect. The packets do not travel from your house directly to the house on the same block.

    It's routed through your ISP, which could have any number of QOS settings and an unknown number of hops, and then routed to the guy up the street.

    Not to mention the number of variables that exist on both your network and the network of the house on the same block.

    Imagine your connection to the world wide web as a river.

    The packets being sent back and forth are fish.

    You're sending and receiving NHL Fish using the same river, but sometimes the Netflix fish, the web browsing fish & all the fish being used for iPhone and tablet traffic are all using the same river.

    At some point, things get congested and some fish make it through, some fish don't.

    Even moreso, the section of the river carved out for fish going 'upstream' is small, and you need to cram the fish in there - with even more chance of some fish being lost in the process.


    Everyone here claims their 'river' is the size of the Ocean - but that's just not the case.

    Furthermore, COD fish, Battlefield Fish.. and other non- EA SPORTS fish are much smaller both in physical size and in actual numbers of fish (packets) being sent. This explains why other games seemingly work 'no problem' while NHL still suffers.

    The size of the NHL fish are too big, and in too big of numbers. I think the solution the team is (likely) working on, is maintaining the game engine code - not sacrificing anything - and making the fish smaller and in less numbers.

    This is an engineering problem, and not a problem with the game.

    The engineering team needs to find a way to make smaller NHL fish - and decrease the population without sacrificing the core game engine and it's features.



    Yea this makes more sense than always hearing "it is on our end". Not saying it's never true, but it still makes sense.
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Yea this makes more sense than always hearing "it is on our end". Not saying it's never true, but it still makes sense.

    But to be fair - the river (bandwidth) people are working with can be influenced by a plethora of variables - so it's an easy answer and should absolutely be the first thing people diagnose.

    The problem is that only a small segment of the population know how to properly diagnose those issues.

    A seemingly large segment of the population claim to know how to troubleshoot a 'river flow' problem - but in reality have no clue and spread misinformation to cater to the 'it's EA's servers' narrative.

    It's not EA's servers.

    It's a combination of the engineering team working on making the packets smaller and more efficient while maintaining the integrity of the game and also a responsibility on the user to know that their network is running efficiently.

    Agreed. However, many people say they don't lag in other games. So that is why I agreed about big fish. Makes sense.

    Maybe with other games the fish are just small enough that people get away with it even if they do in fact, have "iffy" connections and therefore don't feel any lag.
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Yea this makes more sense than always hearing "it is on our end". Not saying it's never true, but it still makes sense.

    But to be fair - the river (bandwidth) people are working with can be influenced by a plethora of variables - so it's an easy answer and should absolutely be the first thing people diagnose.

    The problem is that only a small segment of the population know how to properly diagnose those issues.

    A seemingly large segment of the population claim to know how to troubleshoot a 'river flow' problem - but in reality have no clue and spread misinformation to cater to the 'it's EA's servers' narrative.

    It's not EA's servers.

    It's a combination of the engineering team working on making the packets smaller and more efficient while maintaining the integrity of the game and also a responsibility on the user to know that their network is running efficiently.

    Agreed. However, many people say they don't lag in other games. So that is why I agreed about big fish. Makes sense.

    Maybe with other games the fish are just small enough that people get away with it even if they do in fact, have "iffy" connections and therefore don't feel any lag.

    Also, take GTA 5 as an example. Don't know if you noticed, but the graphics are decreased a bit compared to the campaign. Online is slightly duller. Supposedly it alleviates the server stress by quite a bit.

    However, I didn't notice a difference in NHL from offline to online graphics wise. Maybe if they decreased the graphics quality just slightly, it may make a good difference.
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