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Alienating the Long-term Fans

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  • There is a reason most of the EASHL players from clubs like Kontenders, Cross crease cheese, unbreakable cycle, reservoir dogs, fearless, composure, ninth wonder, etc etc. all the best clubs and all the best players have literally stopped playing this game.

    This game is only surviving due to a new generation of players who got the game post TPS, so its all they know so to them they don't have a clue what this whole argument is about, they hear arcade and think "that's weak, we are hardcore, we want sim". But this generation replaced the one that left, the sad thing is the previous generation would not have left and you would have grown the game having newer generations joining to increase the community, instead out with 5,000 and in with 5,000 new, no net gain, however in this business it would have been better to have 10,000 combined rather than maintain 5,000. Of course this is just a general example, don't take it literally.

    I've bought everything game since 09, and hated 13, and year by year I kept telling myself next year they are going to fix this skating issue, stuck in mud, clunky, so I buy it just to find it's still there. I too have about run my course with this game since the feedback we are getting is "too bad". That leaves no hope for improvement.

    I guess our last grasp before "goodbye" is taking you up on your offer of possibility, to tune EASHL to play arcade by juicing up and/or reducing aspects of TPS to replicate old school responsiveness as close as possible, that may just enough to save EASHL/OTP but we need EA DEVS and executives to tell us it can and will be done, sooner rather than later to show us they care and are willing to test this.

    Infact why not advertise for 1 month only trial you will tune it to play more arcade and use that month to get feedback, if popular keep it, if not revert back, at least we can all say at that point EA tried. That will satisfy most of us, but lets try something especially since you mentioned it is possible to tune it to play more old school.

    Please give it a one month trial, lets us play some EASHL for one month under this tuning, turn TPS all the way down next to nothing and let us try it for one month, please.

    oh, and thank you..
  • Zeroshift wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »

    I know this is going to come off as extremely rude, but I just don't care what the reasoning is. The game played great before and now it doesn't. The choice was made to put TPS in the game, and the choice can be made to take it out, right?

    I guess that is the difference between you and I. I care about the reasoning more than anything, otherwise we are making blind decisions.

    And yes, anything is possible. You could also join the team and help build a better skating engine or start a kickstarter and build your own game. There are more factors that go into something beyond what is possible.

    Cool, guess I'm not buying this game anymore then. Thanks!

    Join the club, that's about the closest response we're getting to a straightforward answer that TPS isn't going anywhere.

    TPS doesn't have to be scrapped, eh buds'? It has a lot of good aspects to it.

    Its most glaring issues and omissions are the biggest reason this game has declined since 13 though.

    When playing a game and the controls FEEL clunky, FEEL like a chore, you have a major problem..

    Fix the clunky FEEL of maneuvering without the puck and TPS is pretty decent.

    Fail to do that and this game will never take off and truly become fun again.
  • It's too bad the HuT community isn't all up in arms over TPS skating. What would EA do if interest in HuT dwindled and pack sales dropped because those players refused to spend any more money unless the skating engine was fixed
  • kezz123
    647 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    NHLDev wrote: »
    kezz123 wrote: »

    What are the solutions? Clearly you believe in your product and design and I dont think you seem too intent on doing a 180 on major features like TPS. I can respect that. However, I still hope that at some points, your stats will show that its time for a change and that you will recall those of us who have been proposing a different type of flow to your game.

    I think that a proper Vision control would go a long way in improving the flow of the game. Multiple dressing rooms would help restore some popularity in clubs. Perhaps tweaks to attributes would also be in order. I do notice that playing offline always seems so much smoother than in EASHL. I assume because the players have higher skating stats, unless its purely connectivity related.

    Thanks again for sharing your views and opinions and keeping the dialogue going.

    I appreciate the well thought out responses and I respect your view on it.

    Out of curiosity, when you play offline, what game style are you playing on? I actually think that for some people that liked NHL 09-12, they may like Game Style 2 better for pure 'fun factor' so would be curious if that is the difference or if it is just online connections or player attributes as you say but the EASHL skating attributes are pretty high level these days.

    There is a reason we offer the different game styles offline and see them all used at different percentages. And then beyond that, we have groups doing their own tuning. However, that is just as polarizing as our tuning can be. When DJNeo was tuning during his visit here to test our full sim sliders, the other gamechangers were watching over his shoulder saying that looks pretty awesome, but I would never play it, haha, but a lot of people over at Operation Sports are really enjoying being able to play longer minute periods and more simulation based gameplay. Those things are only possible if you increase what others find the frustrating parts of gameplay -- and that is why we always say 'fun' is the most subjective thing.

    To be honest, I dont play much offline anymore so im not even sure what I play as. Before NHL 09, I used to play nothing but offline since 93 I believe. In the beta, I launched one or two exhibition games with all settings defaulted playing ottawa vs some other random team. So whatever settings you have by default on exhibition is what i played. I dont even recall if I changed the difficulty. It felt good control wise. Players felt faster and more responsive and I felt like most of the time I could do somewhat decently at defense and moving the puck in the offensive zone fairly well. there were definitely hints of lack of proper control at defense while back skating but it wasnt too apparent. This may however be in part because of the better skating attributes or maybe because the AI doesnt try to dangle around you nearly as much as the EASHL people will which seems to expose defensive problems a lot more.

    Is that game style 2 as you suspect?

    I sometimes feel like I could probably buy nhl 17 and just play offline again as the style of play is less frustrating but at the same time, now that i know how much better club can be, its hard to get past playing with and vs humans to go play with the AI.

    I hope my last comment about practicing defense more didnt sound rude. I was leaving work and tossed a quick reply before leaving but I stand by that in the context you explained where you test things in practice mode a lot and so on. Perhaps you guys could enlist the services of a defense specialist who could help with the whole back skating / strafing / defensive positioning and reasoning and help you find out what feels lacking from a defensive point of view in the game. IE: Taking the body while a player tries to get too close and past you for instance. Ignore the puck put your hands ont he opponent chest and lift him backwards sort of and remove him from the puck. These are safer plays then open ice hits where you risk just looking like a fool and you soprt of just use the opponent momentum against them.

    If you take a look at this video I found on a quick search, it talks about gap control:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=amnnMOUko64

    If you try to follow these tips as a defender in NHL 17 for instance, using the proper gap, you become extremely vulnerable to the offensive player and you will notice that you have a harder time controlling your character and see if you can push them to the outside and force them there...likely you cannot.

    What typically happens is defenders instead leave a long gap because this is the safest way to play the opponent in this game which goes against typical defensive plays.


    This video highlights hidding the poke check and watching the body and not the puck:
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=sJrdxXGR-BY

    When you see him show how to look at the body instead of the puck, he actually staff a few times to follow the skater.

    When he hides the pock check, something I myself do a lot in real hockey, look at how close to the opposing skates his poke hits. The thing is, as a defense moving backward, in NHL series, poking in that situation will very often result in poking right in the skates for a penalty...when in reality this is a fairly easy poke check to accomplish. I dont recall ever tripping someone doing this play and its a pretty routine play for me in real hockey. I however dread doing it in this game in part because the TPS will make me move all over instead of facing the puck and my stick will likely poke straight at the skate past the puck because the stick of my player seems pretty extended to begin with and then the poking motion makes for a large poke.

    Anyways, im sure I dont explain it the best but it may help understand some of the concerns at least from a defensive standpoint.

    This video explains how the stick is your tool on defense, how to move a player to the outside and how to keep your stick close.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=0E8A1YDEuEQ

    This is where I was explaining before how poke check spam was a good way to simulate good defense as you can poke NEAR but not on the puck unless the player decide to come to you where you actually poked it away. This is the exact type of defense I USED to be able to do but no longer can achieve due to a combination of skating issues and stick tool issues.

  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    Zeroshift wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »

    I know this is going to come off as extremely rude, but I just don't care what the reasoning is. The game played great before and now it doesn't. The choice was made to put TPS in the game, and the choice can be made to take it out, right?

    I guess that is the difference between you and I. I care about the reasoning more than anything, otherwise we are making blind decisions.

    And yes, anything is possible. You could also join the team and help build a better skating engine or start a kickstarter and build your own game. There are more factors that go into something beyond what is possible.

    Cool, guess I'm not buying this game anymore then. Thanks!

    Join the club, that's about the closest response we're getting to a straightforward answer that TPS isn't going anywhere.

    TPS doesn't have to be scrapped, eh buds'? It has a lot of good aspects to it.

    Its most glaring issues and omissions are the biggest reason this game has declined since 13 though.

    When playing a game and the controls FEEL clunky, FEEL like a chore, you have a major problem..

    Fix the clunky FEEL of maneuvering without the puck and TPS is pretty decent.

    Fail to do that and this game will never take off and truly become fun again.

    This issue is how many years old now? Devs here have said they partially agree with TPS having its issues but they always end up saying that they're not going to do anything about it by not saying anything at all.
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    I know this is going to come off as extremely rude, but I just don't care what the reasoning is. The game played great before and now it doesn't. The choice was made to put TPS in the game, and the choice can be made to take it out, right?

    I guess that is the difference between you and I. I care about the reasoning more than anything, otherwise we are making blind decisions.

    And yes, anything is possible. You could also join the team and help build a better skating engine or start a kickstarter and build your own game. There are more factors that go into something beyond what is possible.

    Cool, guess I'm not buying this game anymore then. Thanks!

    how is this clown not banned with that racist username? isn't **** a racist term for italians? you should play wii hockey if u want pure arcade **** btw.
  • nickythewop
    451 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    KoryDub wrote: »
    Cool, guess I'm not buying this game anymore then. Thanks!

    I may have missed something... Do you care to elaborate as to why you posted this?

    Because every year since TPS came out, there have been threads about how the system was clunky and people wanted the old system back, we have new features like auto-saucer and stride dekes that only serve to make those areas of the game even easier, the move to current-gen has only resulted in more threads about the lack of responsiveness, and we have a 14+ page thread about how a number of people feel alienated by the devs.

    We've tried for years to help get this fixed, and I express my frustration about it because I don't know what else we can even do at this point to try and convince EA to fix the damn problem, only to have one of the devs suggest that we're asking them to make blind decisions and that maybe I should make my own game. What's the point of posting in this forum if even one of the most commonly expressed criticisms of the game over the past 5 years is brushed off as if everything was working exactly as intended?

    They might as well change the background of this forum to a giant shredder, because that's seemingly where all of these ideas go.
  • Workin_OT
    469 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    Zeroshift wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »

    I know this is going to come off as extremely rude, but I just don't care what the reasoning is. The game played great before and now it doesn't. The choice was made to put TPS in the game, and the choice can be made to take it out, right?

    I guess that is the difference between you and I. I care about the reasoning more than anything, otherwise we are making blind decisions.

    And yes, anything is possible. You could also join the team and help build a better skating engine or start a kickstarter and build your own game. There are more factors that go into something beyond what is possible.

    Cool, guess I'm not buying this game anymore then. Thanks!

    Join the club, that's about the closest response we're getting to a straightforward answer that TPS isn't going anywhere.

    TPS doesn't have to be scrapped, eh buds'? It has a lot of good aspects to it.

    Its most glaring issues and omissions are the biggest reason this game has declined since 13 though.

    When playing a game and the controls FEEL clunky, FEEL like a chore, you have a major problem..

    Fix the clunky FEEL of maneuvering without the puck and TPS is pretty decent.

    Fail to do that and this game will never take off and truly become fun again.

    This issue is how many years old now? Devs here have said they partially agree with TPS having its issues but they always end up saying that they're not going to do anything about it by not saying anything at all.

    Wayy too many years now, it's quite brutal to think about to be honest.

    With the FEEL of how a video game controls being the most important aspect of every single video game ever made, you'd think that remedying their game to not feel clunky as **** would be a #1 priority.

    But as you've pointed out, it has felt clunky as **** for years now.. It's disheartening. They've attempted to address it the last 2 years but have come up short. I guess the good news it they are actually trying to improve it.. Gives me hope they can finally fix it one day. Til then this game will never flourish, no matter what they do or add.
  • barrett098 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »

    I know this is going to come off as extremely rude, but I just don't care what the reasoning is. The game played great before and now it doesn't. The choice was made to put TPS in the game, and the choice can be made to take it out, right?

    I guess that is the difference between you and I. I care about the reasoning more than anything, otherwise we are making blind decisions.

    And yes, anything is possible. You could also join the team and help build a better skating engine or start a kickstarter and build your own game. There are more factors that go into something beyond what is possible.

    Cool, guess I'm not buying this game anymore then. Thanks!

    how is this clown not banned with that racist username? isn't **** a racist term for italians? you should play wii hockey if u want pure arcade **** btw.

    Italian isn't a race. It's a nationality. And I'm pretty sure he's italian. Relax, Nancy.
  • ben i am still absolutely baffled by your responses. there is nothing that is more sim about the game now than it was during the "golden age" as we can call it. there is more automation and less user control than ever before.

    seamless puck pickups magnetize your player towards the puck, whether you're the intended receiver or not. auto dekes with the right stick are lame and gave us less control. there used to be skill in pulling off a nice deke or toe drag. passing used to more touch based and if you passed the puck too hard it would bounce off the receiving player's stick. now you can literally skate around the zone with RT held down until you find an open man. 12 man player collision turns the game into mid 90s New Jersey Devils hockey instead of the new skilled based NHL of today. TPS turned into abusing backwards skating in TOP 6s and EASHL. skaters and goalies alike, swivel like it's table top hockey with hardly any control over it.

    3-on-3-tabletop-hockey.gif

    90% of games are decided on garbage goals (because frankly, playing goalie is awful and we have half of the control we used to have over the goalie). turds and rebound dunks rule the game. you call this sim? the worse part is, i am sensing you are calling us plebs because we liked the game when more skill was needed and there was less automation? you told me there was more automation then 09-12' (on twitter), but i don't see it, no one else here discussing the game see's it. where is the disconnect here???

    also, let's not pat yourself too hard on the back, you guys barely got EASHL on the next gen after taking 2-3 years to work exclusively on next gen, while selling us patched versions of NHL 13 on last gen. not to mention the introduction of TPS caused on screen jitter until january of 2013 and was hardly acknowledged as an issue even though there was a 120 page thread on it, because you guys were already focusing on next gen (at least that was the excuse we got back then).

    you spent a year working on a fighting engine at the same time fighting was being slowly phased out of the sport, due to concussions and the overall meatheaded-ness of it (NHL 14), then fixed a tennis ball phyisics puck the next year and charged us $60 for it (NHL 15 last gen).

    you then charged $60 for a game that only included versus and HUT (NHL 15 on next-gen).

    fast forward to next gen EASHL, we get our right stick nerfed, new goalie controls that are (like i mentioned above) awful and make you swivel for no reason. no touch or precision with the skating, passing and missed nets because we're not gliding and turned at a 60 degree angle when shooting at an open net.

    i guess i'm just a lowly pleb that enjoyed the arcade games.

  • Imo, if TPS is going to stay then players need to be able to rotate at the waist when they deke and also when they're defending. Real NHL players don't have to perfectly square up to the play to get a stick in there and break it up or get a stick on a pass.
    PSN : GordonRamsey
    Club : Midnight Express
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Cool, guess I'm not buying this game anymore then. Thanks!

    I may have missed something... Do you care to elaborate as to why you posted this?

    Because every year since TPS came out, there have been threads about how the system was clunky and people wanted the old system back, we have new features like auto-saucer and stride dekes that only serve to make those areas of the game even easier, the move to current-gen has only resulted in more threads about the lack of responsiveness, and we have a 14+ page thread about how a number of people feel alienated by the devs.

    We've tried for years to help get this fixed, and I express my frustration about it because I don't know what else we can even do at this point to try and convince EA to fix the **** problem, only to have one of the devs suggest that we're asking them to make blind decisions and that maybe I should make my own game. What's the point of posting in this forum if even one of the most commonly expressed criticisms of the game over the past 5 years is brushed off as if everything was working exactly as intended?

    They might as well change the background of this forum to a giant shredder, because that's seemingly where all of these ideas go.

    Now im a nobody around here who has read this thread with great interest the past week or so.....im a over fifty gamer who has played nhl for many years though on xbox only since 11 released.

    Im in the crowd who feels the game tanked with the introduction of tps and have found myself playing less and less with each annual release

    Its seems to me that the developers cant acknowledge that tps may be a mistake and are unwilling or unable to satisfy both camps with the tech available to them.

    Forgot who suggested a 11 remaster, but i think that is a brilliant idea and would go a long way to satisfy both points of view

    To suggest that nick crowdfund a game if he doesn't like the current direction of the series reeks of arrogance and indifference to their customers concerns.

    A wise guy i once worked for once said to me

    Business goes where its invited, and stays where it is appreciated

    I will be investing my gaming dollars next august in a company that is interested in satisfying ALL of their customers concerns..... not just the ones who agree with the current direction the game is headed
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Cool, guess I'm not buying this game anymore then. Thanks!

    I may have missed something... Do you care to elaborate as to why you posted this?

    Because every year since TPS came out, there have been threads about how the system was clunky and people wanted the old system back, we have new features like auto-saucer and stride dekes that only serve to make those areas of the game even easier, the move to current-gen has only resulted in more threads about the lack of responsiveness, and we have a 14+ page thread about how a number of people feel alienated by the devs.

    We've tried for years to help get this fixed, and I express my frustration about it because I don't know what else we can even do at this point to try and convince EA to fix the **** problem, only to have one of the devs suggest that we're asking them to make blind decisions and that maybe I should make my own game. What's the point of posting in this forum if even one of the most commonly expressed criticisms of the game over the past 5 years is brushed off as if everything was working exactly as intended?

    They might as well change the background of this forum to a giant shredder, because that's seemingly where all of these ideas go.

    Now im a nobody around here who has read this thread with great interest the past week or so.....im a over fifty gamer who has played nhl for many years though on xbox only since 11 released.

    Im in the crowd who feels the game tanked with the introduction of tps and have found myself playing less and less with each annual release

    Its seems to me that the developers cant acknowledge that tps may be a mistake and are unwilling or unable to satisfy both camps with the tech available to them.

    Forgot who suggested a 11 remaster, but i think that is a brilliant idea and would go a long way to satisfy both points of view

    To suggest that nick crowdfund a game if he doesn't like the current direction of the series reeks of arrogance and indifference to their customers concerns.

    A wise guy i once worked for once said to me

    Business goes where its invited, and stays where it is appreciated

    I will be investing my gaming dollars next august in a company that is interested in satisfying ALL of their customers concerns..... not just the ones who agree with the current direction the game is headed

    Well said
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    I know this is going to come off as extremely rude, but I just don't care what the reasoning is. The game played great before and now it doesn't. The choice was made to put TPS in the game, and the choice can be made to take it out, right?

    I guess that is the difference between you and I. I care about the reasoning more than anything, otherwise we are making blind decisions.

    And yes, anything is possible. You could also join the team and help build a better skating engine or start a kickstarter and build your own game. There are more factors that go into something beyond what is possible.

    Cool, guess I'm not buying this game anymore then. Thanks!

    Wholeheartedly agree. That string of comments kind of crushed what little hope I had for this game moving forward. Keeping TPS as is for the sake of "realism" is baffling. Very little about this game is realistic. In fact there have been countless suggestions made over the years that were shot down in favor of keeping the fun or keeping the play going. Now all of a sudden its more convenient to go the other way with it.

    I guess I am just not their target consumer anymore. The people I know that play this series has dwindled from around 20 to 3 right now. EASHL is what always separated this game from other sport games for me, it gave us a chance to play a more realistic and fun game without, or at least with less, AI.

    It is a struggle to move around and face the way you want, that is the least realistic thing you could ever put into a game. Im constantly fighting with the game to remain facing a direction. Im constantly fighting with the game because someone skated near me and I got sucked into them and pulled with them for a few feet. And then automation, my god, what a mess. From auto dekes, to auto saucer passes, to the disastrous seamless puck pickups. Im standing still, there is a puck coming right to me, oh whoops now im offsides because seamless puck pickup made me skate forward 12 feet before the puck got there. That seems like something that should happen. And no that isnt an unfortunate bug. Thats a massive design flaw that should have been realized before a new feature was introduced. Reasoning is great, so is foresight. If a new skating engine ruins the way the game plays and makes it 10000x harder for people to face a direction, maybe dont do it. If introducing incidental contact into the game, makes it so the other team can constantly commit a penalty by interfering, maybe rework the concept. If adding seamless puck pickups forces me to constantly lose control of my player and skate offsides, or skate into opponents or teammates, is that really realistic, or is that a pretty huge design flaw that is going to further frustrate your userbase?

    The reasoning seems to be for the sake of change and to have a talking point on whats new. Maybe im way off base, wouldnt be the first time, but a lot of these recent additions over the years havent been worked on or improved on much at all. They were added broken, and continue to be left in as broken. The game loses in some vital aspects of other games. User control is seemingly non existent. Consistency isnt even in the conversation, for example, the seemingly random penalties and stick on stick contact. Guy boards me 10 times in a game, no penalty. Next game guy makes clean check and gets 5 minute major.
  • This thread is funny, some want more arcady others want more realism. Just shows EA is finding a nice balance.

    KoryDub wrote: »
    Offensive minded players flooded social media claiming the game was 'broken' because they couldn't dangle through players anymore.

    This is the battle. Who's right? Who's wrong?

    For every player that says Poke is OP, there's a player that thinks it's been nerfed.

    For every player that says shot accuracy is too high, there's another member who claims he can never hit the net.

    it goes on and on like this, year after year.
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • nickythewop
    451 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    This thread is funny, some want more arcady others want more realism. Just shows EA is finding a nice balance.

    KoryDub wrote: »
    Offensive minded players flooded social media claiming the game was 'broken' because they couldn't dangle through players anymore.

    This is the battle. Who's right? Who's wrong?

    For every player that says Poke is OP, there's a player that thinks it's been nerfed.

    For every player that says shot accuracy is too high, there's another member who claims he can never hit the net.

    it goes on and on like this, year after year.

    EA sure is finding a nice balance in terms of ratings on metacritic too I guess:

    NHL 10 - 88%
    NHL 11 - 88%
    NHL 12 - 86%
    NHL 13 - 84%
    NHL 14 - 80%
    NHL 15 - 59%
    NHL 16 - 78%
    NHL 17 - 78%

    Some people want 100%, and others want 0% maybe?
  • cogsx86
    787 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    This thread is funny, some want more arcady others want more realism. Just shows EA is finding a nice balance.

    KoryDub wrote: »
    Offensive minded players flooded social media claiming the game was 'broken' because they couldn't dangle through players anymore.

    This is the battle. Who's right? Who's wrong?

    For every player that says Poke is OP, there's a player that thinks it's been nerfed.

    For every player that says shot accuracy is too high, there's another member who claims he can never hit the net.

    it goes on and on like this, year after year.

    EA sure is finding a nice balance in terms of ratings on metacritic too I guess:

    NHL 10 - 88%
    NHL 11 - 88%
    NHL 12 - 86%
    NHL 13 - 84%
    NHL 14 - 80%
    NHL 15 - 59%
    NHL 16 - 78%
    NHL 17 - 78%

    Some people want 100%, and others want 0% maybe?

    So when you do data it is always easy to select data ranges, lets see the full range ? (link please)

    After 15 the game will get better, then numbers show that.
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • COGSx86 wrote: »
    COGSx86 wrote: »
    This thread is funny, some want more arcady others want more realism. Just shows EA is finding a nice balance.

    KoryDub wrote: »
    Offensive minded players flooded social media claiming the game was 'broken' because they couldn't dangle through players anymore.

    This is the battle. Who's right? Who's wrong?

    For every player that says Poke is OP, there's a player that thinks it's been nerfed.

    For every player that says shot accuracy is too high, there's another member who claims he can never hit the net.

    it goes on and on like this, year after year.

    EA sure is finding a nice balance in terms of ratings on metacritic too I guess:

    NHL 10 - 88%
    NHL 11 - 88%
    NHL 12 - 86%
    NHL 13 - 84%
    NHL 14 - 80%
    NHL 15 - 59%
    NHL 16 - 78%
    NHL 17 - 78%

    Some people want 100%, and others want 0% maybe?

    So when you do data it is always easy to select data ranges, lets see the full range ? (link please)

    After 15 the game will get better, then numbers show that.
    Look it up for yourself buddy: http://bfy.tw/8oLN

    I mean, if your point is that the 360 or PS3 never had a version of NHL under a 79%, yet we've already got three for the PS4/XB1, then you hit the nail on the head.
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