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Alienating the Long-term Fans

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  • RSall14 wrote: »
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    uh oh. thats low. I get no negative if i am in position and a goal is scored, but if i am out of position i get one. especially if i miss a check and a goal gets scored as a result.

    Don't want to sound like an ****, but maybe reevaluate your defensive play. Unless of course you were covering for your D partner and covering his man that would still be a negative. but a Missed assignment one.

    Like I said, these are on solid D games, 2 or 3 goals get scored while I'm in position and not throwing any checks and its -15% to -22% to defense for missing a check, when you never even threw one in the first place. Every time it says your missed check resulted in a goal you get -7%. I'm not sure if poke checking counts as a check, maybe that's the reason.

    Were you between the player and the net? or were you chasing? Were you playing your side or your partners side. All of that matters If the puck goes in. Even sometimes when it doesn'tgo in.

    I said I was in position, I played defense for 13 years of my life, I know where my position is. Like I said, these were solid defensive games against tough teams, even when playing the rush perfect I see the coach using that same, your missed check resulted in a goal feedback at the end of the period.

    I'm only referring to that feedback, nothing to do with being caught on the rush or out of position, just losing a ton of defense % for missing checks that were never thrown.

    Don't even bother with him Lynch. He's a troll who will do anything to discredit you.

    Oh I know, his hockey experience comes from road hockey with his nephew. I just forgot who I was talking to when I replied the first time.
  • The funny thing is, I remember so many people calling for "More Sim!!" like 100% stick and puck collision (myself included), but I am beginning to see how some things just don't translate well, especially online. Some aspects of the game have to have a happy medium, and that is probably the hardest part of Ben's job by far. Well that, trying to keep up with this thread and having to have Rammer sign off on stuff lol I kid, I kid! See, you can joke with me Ben. Some of these people take stuff you say way too seriously. I'm glad you joke, I know you're human!

    Yep, I don't fault EA for doing what they did because we asked for a good portion of it. Their failure though is not noticing the problem soon enough and dialing back the sim style.
  • PadrinoIV wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    "Stop talking about the past of the NHL series like it was the golden years."

    You need more than an opinion to back this statement up, I brought my evidence as in how "HOT" EASHL was in 09,10,11 and 12, it was the hay day, so many good clubs and players, so many rivalries, so many matches. There was never a more dedicated (addicted) group of NHL'ers playing this game. You cannot compare today's EASHL to 09, 10, 11, and 12, its a joke in comparison, nobody plays club anymore, the game is basically dead, dead when compared to the glory days.

    You are confusing the argument, this isn't about technology and advancement, sure the programming and game mechanics today are off the charts genius and in theory making this a realistic simulation sound amazing, however reality is its not amazing, its a cluster f#$k, its delayed, its slow, its wonky, its frustrating, its nothing but fire pucks on net before you turn it over and hope for rebounds/deflections, it may be more realistic, but this is a game, there is a reason game rooms used to be called "the arcade" arcades are fun!!!! Games should be fun!!! Since NHL 13 this game is not fun, its a chore to play, and frustrating because its been my favorite game since 93/94 NHLPA on sega genesis (which was fun!!!), and I just can't stop giving each new year a try hoping for the game to have that old feel, I'm getting closer to realizing it just isn't going to happen.

    Yes. - A fellow '93 player

    Yall r comparing an offline arcade game to building an online current gen console game with 12 consoles synching to a single, or multiple, anchor points.

    But i get yer point. Game isnt all that fun or captivating as it was.

    I'm just mentioning the 93 game to say that I'm THERE since that time. I don't want to play NHLPA '93. Bought it though... as collector's choice ;-)
  • PadrinoIV wrote: »
    PadrinoIV wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    "Stop talking about the past of the NHL series like it was the golden years."

    You need more than an opinion to back this statement up, I brought my evidence as in how "HOT" EASHL was in 09,10,11 and 12, it was the hay day, so many good clubs and players, so many rivalries, so many matches. There was never a more dedicated (addicted) group of NHL'ers playing this game. You cannot compare today's EASHL to 09, 10, 11, and 12, its a joke in comparison, nobody plays club anymore, the game is basically dead, dead when compared to the glory days.

    You are confusing the argument, this isn't about technology and advancement, sure the programming and game mechanics today are off the charts genius and in theory making this a realistic simulation sound amazing, however reality is its not amazing, its a cluster f#$k, its delayed, its slow, its wonky, its frustrating, its nothing but fire pucks on net before you turn it over and hope for rebounds/deflections, it may be more realistic, but this is a game, there is a reason game rooms used to be called "the arcade" arcades are fun!!!! Games should be fun!!! Since NHL 13 this game is not fun, its a chore to play, and frustrating because its been my favorite game since 93/94 NHLPA on sega genesis (which was fun!!!), and I just can't stop giving each new year a try hoping for the game to have that old feel, I'm getting closer to realizing it just isn't going to happen.

    Yes. - A fellow '93 player

    Yall r comparing an offline arcade game to building an online current gen console game with 12 consoles synching to a single, or multiple, anchor points.

    But i get yer point. Game isnt all that fun or captivating as it was.

    I'm just mentioning the 93 game to say that I'm THERE since that time. I don't want to play NHLPA '93. Bought it though... as collector's choice ;-)

    "I'm gonna make Gretzky's head bleed for super fan 99 over here."
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited November 2016
    The funny thing is, I remember so many people calling for "More Sim!!" like 100% stick and puck collision (myself included), but I am beginning to see how some things just don't translate well, especially online. Some aspects of the game have to have a happy medium, and that is probably the hardest part of Ben's job by far. Well that, trying to keep up with this thread and having to have Rammer sign off on stuff lol I kid, I kid! See, you can joke with me Ben. Some of these people take stuff you say way too seriously. I'm glad you joke, I know you're human!

    Alright, now we are having a conversation, haha... It is never black and white. Glad some of you guys realize that we aren't intentionally making your lives miserable.
    Yep, I don't fault EA for doing what they did because we asked for a good portion of it. Their failure though is not noticing the problem soon enough and dialing back the sim style.

    So that is where I am curious... If you take a moment and go into practice mode, how different is your experience there on Preset 3 (same settings as online) compared to how your connection feels online? Do you like the skating better and it is more of the online connection for you that changes it?

    Or, if you then change to Preset 2, and then Preset 1, is the game getting closer to what you like?

    The reason I ask is that if that is the case, it is tuning within the game and then obviously it is still a subjective balance as seen in this thread but there is a difference between the tuning and core locomotion/skating system.

    The new system was built to be able to do realistic things, so in it's nature, you are more accountable for things such as pivots but we still have the ability to tune speed, acceleration, agility, etc. and if you go into the Gameplay tuners themselves, you will see that we even added User control this year for people offline to try out different puck carrier skating specific sliders, unique control over backskating speed, and a few other things.

    Most people that play with those settings are the ones trying to make the game even more 'sim'. However, the same could be done by players that want to play around and understand what the current skating system can do to make it more forgiving and find their personal level of 'fun factor' (at least with those current outward facing levers). We have more control on our end by far, but those tuners give a lot of control still.

    On top of that, player attributes play a role as well. So there will still be variation based on how you set those things on a player to player basis so keep that in mind too.

    And all that said, it doesn't mean we are going to change something if one or two people find tuning they like. It would be an impossible game to tune truly by committee but it allows us to speak the same language if we can differentiate between the core system and the tuning of it and the tuners themselves let us talk about something specific as well, if we wanted to.

    In the past, people used to play around with the hitting parameters and tell me what they thought made the game better and the sliders these days on the 100 point scale and purely in how many of them there are now exposed would give way more control over the core experience and how it plays.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I'm seriously done with these **** that think they now the sport simply because they play a video game of the sport which doesn't even represent the sport accurately. The physics in this game are a joke (at best), rebounds that go in directions that make absolutely no sense scientifically are routinely the cause of bad goals, for the sake of appeasing these type of "hockey fans" that think games that end 1-0 or 2-1 are "boring".

    In an NHL game, scoring per game on average should be around 2.00 to 3.00, not 4.00 to 5.00 like it is now. Scoring percentage should be around 10%, not 20% like it is now.

    Ben said that the game settings are set so that a game in NHL 17 that has 15 shots fired in 4 minute periods is like having 30 shots fired on net in full 20 minute periods. That's fine.

    But shouldn't the goals scored also follow this percentage? Why are we seeing 5-6 goals scored per game if the shots per game represented in the video game are halved? Shouldn't we be seeing 2-3 goals scored at most??

    NHL 17 could use having 2 or 3 goals per game lower on average. It won't kill the game. On the contrary it'll make things more exciting.

    Yes.
  • So those preset tuners (that don't do anything when playing online) curb/prevent the dumb auto-animations like whiffing at the puck 3 times, springing off the boards, being pulled by a pass, etc? Wow, ain't that something...and here I thought all this time it was just lousy programming.
  • EVerk81 wrote: »
    So those preset tuners (that don't do anything when playing online) curb/prevent the dumb auto-animations like whiffing at the puck 3 times, springing off the boards, being pulled by a pass, etc? Wow, ain't that something...and here I thought all this time it was just lousy programming.

    I mainly play offline and Competitive does all that. I've since played a couple games using Full Sim and very rarely do you see the crazy amount of wonkiness (pulling animations, bouncing all over the place). Competitive feels like the arcade setting in the older games.
  • megadeth_600
    1437 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    NHLDev wrote: »
    The funny thing is, I remember so many people calling for "More Sim!!" like 100% stick and puck collision (myself included), but I am beginning to see how some things just don't translate well, especially online. Some aspects of the game have to have a happy medium, and that is probably the hardest part of Ben's job by far. Well that, trying to keep up with this thread and having to have Rammer sign off on stuff lol I kid, I kid! See, you can joke with me Ben. Some of these people take stuff you say way too seriously. I'm glad you joke, I know you're human!

    Alright, now we are having a conversation, haha... It is never black and white. Glad some of you guys realize that we aren't intentionally making your lives miserable.
    Yep, I don't fault EA for doing what they did because we asked for a good portion of it. Their failure though is not noticing the problem soon enough and dialing back the sim style.

    So that is where I am curious... If you take a moment and go into practice mode, how different is your experience there on Preset 3 (same settings as online) compared to how your connection feels online? Do you like the skating better and it is more of the online connection for you that changes it?

    Or, if you then change to Preset 2, and then Preset 1, is the game getting closer to what you like?

    The reason I ask is that if that is the case, it is tuning within the game and then obviously it is still a subjective balance as seen in this thread but there is a difference between the tuning and core locomotion/skating system.

    The new system was built to be able to do realistic things, so in it's nature, you are more accountable for things such as pivots but we still have the ability to tune speed, acceleration, agility, etc. and if you go into the Gameplay tuners themselves, you will see that we even added User control this year for people offline to try out different puck carrier skating specific sliders, unique control over backskating speed, and a few other things.

    Most people that play with those settings are the ones trying to make the game even more 'sim'. However, the same could be done by players that want to play around and understand what the current skating system can do to make it more forgiving and find their personal level of 'fun factor' (at least with those current outward facing levers). We have more control on our end by far, but those tuners give a lot of control still.


    On top of that, player attributes play a role as well. So there will still be variation based on how you set those things on a player to player basis so keep that in mind too.

    And all that said, it doesn't mean we are going to change something if one or two people find tuning they like. It would be an impossible game to tune truly by committee but it allows us to speak the same language if we can differentiate between the core system and the tuning of it and the tuners themselves let us talk about something specific as well, if we wanted to.

    In the past, people used to play around with the hitting parameters and tell me what they thought made the game better and the sliders these days on the 100 point scale and purely in how many of them there are now exposed would give way more control over the core experience and how it plays.

    As others have suggested, trying different tunings for online play could be a very valid strategy.

    For example, when a player loads up his game, there could be an on-screen message that says, for example, from Jan 3rd to 5th there will be a tuning adjustment aimed at more sim. Whatever, something along those lines. I would suspect cranking up agility a bit, and lowering effects of momentum at lower speeds could help alot. Although, I would assume this would also affect puck carriers.

    There are so many people with different connection experiences online that will affect their game quality. Obviously, this makes your job very difficult when it comes to choosing a tuning, or how outcomes are played. I would think trying 4 or 5 different tunings could help immensely in knowing what people think of the game, and which direction they want the game to head in. I for one, want more control of my player. Especially at lower speeds AND without the puck. Also, a slider for goalie speed. Everyone has a different view of how goalies should play and feel. The position is that complex that if you chose 20 random players, you would most likely get 20 different opinions of how a goalie should play out in the game. The more choices we have, there easier it would be to satisfy more players. I would also like to point out that never, under any circumstance, should the game be pulling my player in any direction. The game should not be making choices for me. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it hinders. Bottom line is, it makes it harder to be accountable for our choices.

    In short, giving us a choice of speed for our goalie and giving more control of our players, the more success the game should have. I want my controller input to play out as close as possible on screen. If players feel that pivots are too slow, or overall their player feels clunky and slow, they will most likely not enjoy their experience with the game.

    I also get how controller input does not necessarily equate what our intentions really are. What I mean is, when I want my player to brake or stop, the game does not necessarily know how hard I want to hit the brakes. Does the player slide for 15 feet, or 5 feet when braking from full speed? This is where I think different tunings could tell you what final version would please a greater fan base. Whatever tuning is decided, I think it should favor team play and punish selfish plays. That alone would probably go a long way to pleasing most of the fanbase.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    The funny thing is, I remember so many people calling for "More Sim!!" like 100% stick and puck collision (myself included), but I am beginning to see how some things just don't translate well, especially online. Some aspects of the game have to have a happy medium, and that is probably the hardest part of Ben's job by far. Well that, trying to keep up with this thread and having to have Rammer sign off on stuff lol I kid, I kid! See, you can joke with me Ben. Some of these people take stuff you say way too seriously. I'm glad you joke, I know you're human!

    Alright, now we are having a conversation, haha... It is never black and white. Glad some of you guys realize that we aren't intentionally making your lives miserable.
    Yep, I don't fault EA for doing what they did because we asked for a good portion of it. Their failure though is not noticing the problem soon enough and dialing back the sim style.

    So that is where I am curious... If you take a moment and go into practice mode, how different is your experience there on Preset 3 (same settings as online) compared to how your connection feels online? Do you like the skating better and it is more of the online connection for you that changes it?

    Or, if you then change to Preset 2, and then Preset 1, is the game getting closer to what you like?

    The reason I ask is that if that is the case, it is tuning within the game and then obviously it is still a subjective balance as seen in this thread but there is a difference between the tuning and core locomotion/skating system.

    The new system was built to be able to do realistic things, so in it's nature, you are more accountable for things such as pivots but we still have the ability to tune speed, acceleration, agility, etc. and if you go into the Gameplay tuners themselves, you will see that we even added User control this year for people offline to try out different puck carrier skating specific sliders, unique control over backskating speed, and a few other things.

    Most people that play with those settings are the ones trying to make the game even more 'sim'. However, the same could be done by players that want to play around and understand what the current skating system can do to make it more forgiving and find their personal level of 'fun factor' (at least with those current outward facing levers). We have more control on our end by far, but those tuners give a lot of control still.

    On top of that, player attributes play a role as well. So there will still be variation based on how you set those things on a player to player basis so keep that in mind too.

    And all that said, it doesn't mean we are going to change something if one or two people find tuning they like. It would be an impossible game to tune truly by committee but it allows us to speak the same language if we can differentiate between the core system and the tuning of it and the tuners themselves let us talk about something specific as well, if we wanted to.

    In the past, people used to play around with the hitting parameters and tell me what they thought made the game better and the sliders these days on the 100 point scale and purely in how many of them there are now exposed would give way more control over the core experience and how it plays.

    None of your current presets will change the fact that the only reliable way to square up to the puck is to either skate forward towards it, or to skate backwards away from it. And then there is no option to move laterally and make small positional adjustments because Precision Skating is too slow, doesn't allow you to transition in and out of, and awkwardly initiated.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only thing those presets and sliders are going to change is weight and momentum in how you can stop and change direction. But none of that will change the lack of facing controls and lateral movement.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    The funny thing is, I remember so many people calling for "More Sim!!" like 100% stick and puck collision (myself included), but I am beginning to see how some things just don't translate well, especially online. Some aspects of the game have to have a happy medium, and that is probably the hardest part of Ben's job by far. Well that, trying to keep up with this thread and having to have Rammer sign off on stuff lol I kid, I kid! See, you can joke with me Ben. Some of these people take stuff you say way too seriously. I'm glad you joke, I know you're human!

    Alright, now we are having a conversation, haha... It is never black and white. Glad some of you guys realize that we aren't intentionally making your lives miserable.
    Yep, I don't fault EA for doing what they did because we asked for a good portion of it. Their failure though is not noticing the problem soon enough and dialing back the sim style.

    So that is where I am curious... If you take a moment and go into practice mode, how different is your experience there on Preset 3 (same settings as online) compared to how your connection feels online? Do you like the skating better and it is more of the online connection for you that changes it?

    Or, if you then change to Preset 2, and then Preset 1, is the game getting closer to what you like?

    The reason I ask is that if that is the case, it is tuning within the game and then obviously it is still a subjective balance as seen in this thread but there is a difference between the tuning and core locomotion/skating system.

    The new system was built to be able to do realistic things, so in it's nature, you are more accountable for things such as pivots but we still have the ability to tune speed, acceleration, agility, etc. and if you go into the Gameplay tuners themselves, you will see that we even added User control this year for people offline to try out different puck carrier skating specific sliders, unique control over backskating speed, and a few other things.

    Most people that play with those settings are the ones trying to make the game even more 'sim'. However, the same could be done by players that want to play around and understand what the current skating system can do to make it more forgiving and find their personal level of 'fun factor' (at least with those current outward facing levers). We have more control on our end by far, but those tuners give a lot of control still.


    On top of that, player attributes play a role as well. So there will still be variation based on how you set those things on a player to player basis so keep that in mind too.

    And all that said, it doesn't mean we are going to change something if one or two people find tuning they like. It would be an impossible game to tune truly by committee but it allows us to speak the same language if we can differentiate between the core system and the tuning of it and the tuners themselves let us talk about something specific as well, if we wanted to.

    In the past, people used to play around with the hitting parameters and tell me what they thought made the game better and the sliders these days on the 100 point scale and purely in how many of them there are now exposed would give way more control over the core experience and how it plays.

    As others have suggested, trying different tunings for online play could be a very valid strategy.

    For example, when a player loads up his game, there could be an on-screen message that says, for example, from Jan 3rd to 5th there will be a tuning adjustment aimed at more sim. Whatever, something along those lines. I would suspect cranking up agility a bit, and lowering effects of momentum at lower speeds could help alot. Although, I would assume this would also affect puck carriers.

    There are so many people with different connection experiences online that will affect their game quality. Obviously, this makes your job very difficult when it comes to choosing a tuning, or how outcomes are played. I would think trying 4 or 5 different tunings could help immensely in knowing what people think of the game, and which direction they want the game to head in. I for one, want more control of my player. Especially at lower speeds AND without the puck. Also, a slider for goalie speed. Everyone has a different view of how goalies should play and feel. The position is that complex that if you chose 20 random players, you would most likely get 20 different opinions of how a goalie should play out in the game. The more choices we have, there easier it would be to satisfy more players. I would also like to point out that never, under any circumstance, should the game be pulling my player in any direction. The game should not be making choices for me. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it hinders. Bottom line is, it makes it harder to be accountable for our choices.

    In short, giving us a choice of speed for our goalie and giving more control of our players, the more success the game should have. I want my controller input to play out as close as possible on screen. If players feel that pivots are too slow, or overall their player feels clunky and slow, they will most likely not enjoy their experience with the game.

    I also get how controller input does not necessarily equate what our intentions really are. What I mean is, when I want my player to brake or stop, the game does not necessarily know how hard I want to hit the brakes. Does the player slide for 15 feet, or 5 feet when braking from full speed? This is where I think different tunings could tell you what final version would please a greater fan base. Whatever tuning is decided, I think it should favor team play and punish selfish plays. That alone would probably go a long way to pleasing most of the fanbase.

    Edit:

    Can something be done about how easy it is to shove defensive players around? It is very hard to stay in position as you get shoved around easily by opponents or your own teammates. We don't have a controller function to "plant" our feet and fight for our space on the ice. It's as if defenders only weigh 30lbs.
  • here's the thing about setting more arcadey tuners, which is not even what we're really asking for. it doesn't change the fact that LT is now the skate backwards button instead of vision control or that auto dekes are tied to the RS. you can still skate around the zone holding the pass button without getting punished for sending a pass too hard. it doesn't change the fact the game will take control over your player with seamless puck pickups. it won't fix any of that.

    that said, i'll have to see if it helps with the tractor trailer turning or quick twitch movements.
  • here's the thing about setting more arcadey tuners, which is not even what we're really asking for. it doesn't change the fact that LT is now the skate backwards button instead of vision control or that auto dekes are tied to the RS. you can still skate around the zone holding the pass button without getting punished for sending a pass too hard. it doesn't change the fact the game will take control over your player with seamless puck pickups. it won't fix any of that.

    that said, i'll have to see if it helps with the tractor trailer turning or quick twitch movements.

    youtube.com/watch?v=jS0RA9eCsQk
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    The tuning of the game is quite good. I think it finds a balance between sim and arcade nicely for the most part.

    Again, the single biggest thing you can do that will make 100% of people happy is to fix the FEEL of skating without the puck.

    Offense is at a good place right now. Your movement with the puck is fluid and responsive, it FEELS good to control. Offense does not need a nerf to make the game more 'fun'.

    People say they like the older games the best, ie NHL 11. People like offense and people liked defense. Offense wasn't nerfed back then. Defense didn't have more tools back then, there is more defensive tools now than back then, why did people like it more?

    The reason people like it more was the FEEL of controlling their player without the puck.

    It's honestly as simple as that. Back then there was next to no debates about sim vs arcade. The game is tuned and balanced in a pretty good spot right now. Fix the FEEL of controlling your skater without the puck and people will be happy with the current game. The debating about sim vs arcade will subside to almost non existant.

    TPS has good aspects to it no doubt. 45 cuts/90 cuts, great additions to the game. Momentum and being able to glide, great addition. These do not take away from the fact that since TPS was introduced, skating/maneuvering/strafing/facing without the puck has either felt like a clunky mess and/or has not even existed in the engine.

    Fix that issue ^^, make maneuvering/strafing/facing without the puck FEEL smooth and responsive to control again and everyone will be happy again. The debate about sim vs arcade will be almost non existent. Why? Because people will actually be having fun playing the game again.

    100% agree about the skating here. Hopefully this is something that can be addressed in a patch...
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I really think, at this point, Ben... You should ask EA to consider making different EASHL lobbies. One for casuals with arcade settings so they can have their super responsive, super slide, dangle fest of a hockey game like they had in NHL 09. One lobby that stays as is for those "in between". And One lobby for hardcore hockey fans with everything pumped up to maximum sim.

    And before we bring out "but we don't want to segregate the user-base", let me just point out that 10 000 users = 3500 Casuals + 3500 "Hybrids" + 3000 Harcores = 10 000 users. And people will have a lot more fun playing in smaller groups of like-minded users.

    I'd take some options like that in online 1v1 also please. Choices. Good compromise.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    EVerk81 wrote: »
    So those preset tuners (that don't do anything when playing online) curb/prevent the dumb auto-animations like whiffing at the puck 3 times, springing off the boards, being pulled by a pass, etc? Wow, ain't that something...and here I thought all this time it was just lousy programming.

    I mainly play offline and Competitive does all that. I've since played a couple games using Full Sim and very rarely do you see the crazy amount of wonkiness (pulling animations, bouncing all over the place). Competitive feels like the arcade setting in the older games.

    ^^ This.

    Go play a game offline. Heck, play a practice game (as any position you like). Put the preset on FULL SIM and put the difficulty to SuperStar.

    I play Goalie. And every time I play using those game style settings, it's like a dream come true. Weak shots are absorbed by the goalie. Hard shots get redirected towards the boards. Deflections are realistic looking. Dekeing around the goalie actually involves PHYSICS and not weaving back and forth like you're having a seizure while still retaining FULL CONTROL of the puck and having 110% shot accuracy. Hard passes get bobbled and are less accurate.

    It's still a bit Arcadish. But it's night and day compared to the Preset 3 (COMPETITVIE) ones. I find them infinitely more fun, because things tend to make more sense when they're grounded in realism. I don't have to contend with things that defy physics and/or logic.

    Go ahead and try it, and see.
  • kinda wish I had 17 now to test offline and give my input.
    How different is the 16 presets from 17? would it still be a valid test?
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    "and that is why we always say 'fun' is the most subjective thing."

    Its subjective on a year by year snapshot, this is why I've been pushing the case study approach, we have evidence from 09/10/11/12 vs. 13/14/15/16/17, Each individual year you can claim a subjective claim, however when all evidence is weighted as a whole, and I've been here thru it all, when used as a case study the subjective becomes objective. Pre TPS attitude/enjoyment was better than post TPS.

    This is why I'm starting to lean towards a discussion on two different games, since changing the one game may be an unpopular decision among EA DEVS. Can we get a classic vision control and no TPS EASHL/OTP mode or game release? This way the core game, if that is the will of EA to keep TPS and realism, isn't affected and both parties will be happy and engaged instead of alienating one group until they just leave and don't come back.

    And online 1v1 too please. Love the idea. Let us choose.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    "and that is why we always say 'fun' is the most subjective thing."

    Its subjective on a year by year snapshot, this is why I've been pushing the case study approach, we have evidence from 09/10/11/12 vs. 13/14/15/16/17, Each individual year you can claim a subjective claim, however when all evidence is weighted as a whole, and I've been here thru it all, when used as a case study the subjective becomes objective. Pre TPS attitude/enjoyment was better than post TPS.

    This is why I'm starting to lean towards a discussion on two different games, since changing the one game may be an unpopular decision among EA DEVS. Can we get a classic vision control and no TPS EASHL/OTP mode or game release? This way the core game, if that is the will of EA to keep TPS and realism, isn't affected and both parties will be happy and engaged instead of alienating one group until they just leave and don't come back.

    There are no exclusive licenses. If there is room in the market for multiple hockey games, I am sure that someone will build one and take that part of the market share. It isn't cost effective for one team to build two different games with different locomotion/animation systems. You want to build and improve on one that does the best job of achieving the overall vision for the product. Right now, we are a licensed game based on realism and authenticity. Would we love for everyone to feel more agency in our games? Of course; but these changes weren't done to try and make you mad or to decrease your fun... They were done with intent to continue to innovate in the space and make a more immersive product. For a sports game, authenticity and immersion are two huge pieces are what people attribute to fun.

    We do however know that within our current game mechanics, we have the ability to tune the game differently. It may be possible to open up online gameplay to be played on those different settings or custom presets shared amongst the community as I have said but I don't think you would see many companies building two completely different versions of a game these days.

    And for what it is worth, we aren't alienating you -- I am here listening to what you have to say.

    Are you actually opening up to the idea of offering online players more than just 1 type of settings? If we could choose between 2 or 3 types of predetermined settings within the same 1v1 or EASHL as it is right now, it could go a long way I guess !
  • cogsx86
    787 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TPS "feels like ****" because there's a disparity between skating with the puck and without the puck where the player with it has more agility than the player without it.

    That's LUDICROUS!!!

    If anything it should be the other way around. I know Ben has said time and time again that he's not particularly an "offense first" type of guy. But since he took over the reigns of the gameplay department, the game has remained skewed towards the offensive side as it had been before his tenure. Yes, more tools were added to the defense and goalies, but they've never been adequate enough to keep the offense in check.

    Right now, most of the problem is the fact that we lack the mobility to keep up with the forwards. On defense, we have no tools to really contain them on the rush and force them to the outside. We have to take a gamble on a timely poke check or body check, and if that fails, we get burned. As for the Goalies, if the forward just barrels in full tilt and swerves left or right at the last minute, there's little else we can do but take a wild guess and hope we can put a limb on the puck, while he will still enjoy super human puck control and accuracy regardless.

    TPS is not the problem. Forwards with the puck have ALWAYS been the best position in the game. Even before TPS, if you had the puck you could do some crazy stuff and weave your way around right towards the net. While Defenders and Goalies lacked the tools to cope, which is why things like hits were overpowered at one point and goalies needed to have spider-man reflexes.

    We COULD have the tools we need now. But sadly we're left wanting... Again.

    It is not the lack of tools on defense. It is simply the fact that controlling/maneuvering/strafing/facing your player feels like dog ****.

    Offense is fine where it is at. They need to fix defensive control of your player and things will be good again.

    In 'the glory days' offense with the puck still had more movement abilities than defense without it. People didn't complain about that back then. Why? Because there was no issues with controlling your defensive player. It felt smooth, you never had to micromanage/fight the controls.

    In 'the glory days' defense had less tools than they do now. People weren't all up in arms about a lack of defensive tools why? Because there was no issues with controlling your defensive player. It felt smooth, you never had to micromanage/fight the controls and there was no problem getting in a position to make defensive plays.

    Offense is fine, the defensive tools in the game are fine, although D skill stick would still be nice. TPS has some good aspects to it, and others that are dog ****.

    All they need to do is fix the slower speed maneuvering/strafing/facing to FEEL completely smooth again, eh bud? o:)

    @Workin_OT

    People didnt complain about the skating, because the game had other issues to focus on, gltich shots, repeated cross creases, no defensive tools, sticks and pucks going threw players 10 times more then today. And at that time the TPS hadnt even been introduced so people were ok with some arcade skating engine.

    Go back and play NHL 11, oh right now I see why people liked NHL 11.................baaaaaaaaaahahahahaha (videos below)

    Please you guys really need to stop comparing games from 5 years ago to NHL 16 and NHL 17





    You must unlearn what you have learned!
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