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Faceoff Jumping in Online Play

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Hello, I play Center on my EASHL Team. I have found that while I win a majority of my faceoffs, it doesn't seem to matter because the human opponent is already in the D-men's kitchen, stealing the puck before my team can react.

Can you see the lack of Value in playing center or even trying to win a faceoff is greatly affected? I shouldn't be punished with an opposing team's 2 on 1 or breakaway because I know how to win a faceoff more than the opponent does.

I can't be the only this happens to.

Replies

  • While I agree somewhat, you have to also bare in mind that not all faceoffs should be as cleanly won as they are in this game. In hockey, you have to be extremely skilled, strong, and lucky to pull off such clean direct wins. Usually, faceoffs are won as a result of help from the wingers coming in from the sides to help out.

    Rarely in an NHL game do you see a faceoff won cleanly and directly back to a dman ready with his onetimer to blast away.

    Rarely do you see a tie up so one sided that the player walks the opposing center backwards and holds them there. That's actually interference / holding.....but I digress...

    Faceoffs need an overhaul, to say the least. I thought that if a player flinched during the faceoff he was supposed to basically auto-lose the draw or at least greatly diminishes your winning chances, especially if the other player doesn't flinch.....that isn't the case. It happens plenty. I've been in games (lag free ones) where certain centers would move their player as if in time with something (not spamming) and win the faceoff. and no...I'm not bad at faceoffs, not in the least.

    In lagged games I can understand since the input would be late, but even so, those who spam, switch hands to do that stupid flicking stick animation, or move first without the proper timing shouldn't be able to win faceoffs. Once the ref is set with his hand out, you shouldn't move until the puck is being dropped. After that, best timing & best counter wins. If both ppl mess up the timing, have it be a scrum. Simple.

    To the OP, the only faceoffs that get picked off are the lift stick ones (either forehand or backhand) where it takes an extra half second for the faceoff to come out. You can sorta aim those faceoffs with the LS like all other faceoffs. Perhaps you can find an angle that makes it harder for the wingers to get to......worth trying. *With stick lift faceoffs your angle range is limited with LS, and forehand faceoffs are a toss up between a kick back or full on step in, turn around, and push back. Hard to control those..

    The only way to counter the rushing forward to your dman is to let your dman know in advance you're doing that stick lift technique and tell him to cheat in off the face a bit to help avoid it being intercepted or poked. Either that or randomize your faceoffs more so they aren't so predictable. Mix in a few tie ups, lose a few "on purpose" so the other center thinks he is doing well, etc. then win when needed.

    Good luck man.
    BlahQz - Owner of WikkiD VI / D6 NatioN - Our EASHL games are available here on YouTube and Twitch!
  • I agree that the current system has some pretty big flaws with faceoffs being won cleanly far more often than in real life, but I just can't think of what a new system would look like. There's already far too many latency issues and problems when you get too many players close together fighting for the puck that most options would either be laggy messes or complete cluster **** because 3-4 (or more) players will all just skate to the puck drop and try to gain possession.
  • I agree that the current system has some pretty big flaws with faceoffs being won cleanly far more often than in real life, but I just can't think of what a new system would look like. There's already far too many latency issues and problems when you get too many players close together fighting for the puck that most options would either be laggy messes or complete cluster **** because 3-4 (or more) players will all just skate to the puck drop and try to gain possession.

    True, but that's what a majority of faceoffs are like in hockey. Not all, but a good portion.

    Would be nice to have a few more options such as being able to slap it towards the boards a la Crosby or getting real low a la Boyd Gordon. Maybe the gamechangers can discuss this further with the devs on things to be added and tuned. I doubt it, but maybe.
    BlahQz - Owner of WikkiD VI / D6 NatioN - Our EASHL games are available here on YouTube and Twitch!
  • This is just another example of how flawed TPS is. The faceoffs illustrate it perfectly.
  • Ai need to better logic off the face off ...

    Backhand stick lift should beat tie up to balance face offs ...
  • How about humans changing their grip at the last second to win the faceoff?
  • BlahQGhozT wrote: »
    While I agree somewhat, you have to also bare in mind that not all faceoffs should be as cleanly won as they are in this game. In hockey, you have to be extremely skilled, strong, and lucky to pull off such clean direct wins. Usually, faceoffs are won as a result of help from the wingers coming in from the sides to help out.

    Rarely in an NHL game do you see a faceoff won cleanly and directly back to a dman ready with his onetimer to blast away.

    Rarely do you see a tie up so one sided that the player walks the opposing center backwards and holds them there. That's actually interference / holding.....but I digress...

    Faceoffs need an overhaul, to say the least. I thought that if a player flinched during the faceoff he was supposed to basically auto-lose the draw or at least greatly diminishes your winning chances, especially if the other player doesn't flinch.....that isn't the case. It happens plenty. I've been in games (lag free ones) where certain centers would move their player as if in time with something (not spamming) and win the faceoff. and no...I'm not bad at faceoffs, not in the least.

    In lagged games I can understand since the input would be late, but even so, those who spam, switch hands to do that stupid flicking stick animation, or move first without the proper timing shouldn't be able to win faceoffs. Once the ref is set with his hand out, you shouldn't move until the puck is being dropped. After that, best timing & best counter wins. If both ppl mess up the timing, have it be a scrum. Simple.

    To the OP, the only faceoffs that get picked off are the lift stick ones (either forehand or backhand) where it takes an extra half second for the faceoff to come out. You can sorta aim those faceoffs with the LS like all other faceoffs. Perhaps you can find an angle that makes it harder for the wingers to get to......worth trying. *With stick lift faceoffs your angle range is limited with LS, and forehand faceoffs are a toss up between a kick back or full on step in, turn around, and push back. Hard to control those..

    The only way to counter the rushing forward to your dman is to let your dman know in advance you're doing that stick lift technique and tell him to cheat in off the face a bit to help avoid it being intercepted or poked. Either that or randomize your faceoffs more so they aren't so predictable. Mix in a few tie ups, lose a few "on purpose" so the other center thinks he is doing well, etc. then win when needed.

    Good luck man.

    I agree with the OP on this one, I play center 95% of my club games and opposing forwards have way too easy of a time getting to the defense before the puck does.

    As far as opposing centermen flinching and still winning draws, that hardly ever happens to me, any time I see my opponent try to win it too early I know I have that faceoff in the bag and win it in any direction I want rather than the counter/highest % faceoff win.

    People compare this game with real hockey too much, in real hockey you have wayyy more control over skating and reaction time for dealing with bad bounces or unclean faceoff wins, we just don't have that type of control in this game. So making faceoffs more realistic like in the nhl wouldn't be good for the game, it's just another random factor added onto a bunch of other random factors already in the game.

    Also, if you get a couple good centermen playing against each other, almost every faceoff turns out to be a tie up, which is more realistic as most of them are a battle that aren't the wins where you push the guy back 5 feet. Back hand straight back beats everything besides a tie up, so most faceoffs eventually become tie ups for people who know all the counters and are good at center. Forehand straight back beats tie up but it's a gamble, tie up is the safe play.
  • The_B_0_G
    593 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    Double post.
  • Dixonyu wrote: »
    Ai need to better logic off the face off ...

    Backhand stick lift should beat tie up to balance face offs ...

    Forehand straight back beats tie ups.
  • Dixonyu
    649 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    Ai need to better logic off the face off ...

    Backhand stick lift should beat tie up to balance face offs ...

    Forehand straight back beats tie ups.

    Yes it does, but is beat by both stick lifts and is the only face off that beats the tie up... If back hand stick lift beat tie up , it would balance out the faceoffs... It would complete the rock paper scissors effect . Currently tie up wins vs fore hand and backhand stick lift, and back hand drawback, every other faceoffs only beats two other types. Tie up completely dominates backhand faceoffs which is completely unbalanced ... back hand stick lift only beats forehand drawback, if it could beat the tie up, again it would balance face offs and make the rock paper scissors effect balanced ...

    If ea had a clue what was going on when they finally balanced eashl face off ratings ( which was just a complete bonehead move not to do that in the first place when their goal was to balance classes in the first place, really stupid when you think of it they promised balanced gameplay but don't even have the intelligence to execute it lol ) they would've balanced face offs themselves, but years later they are still stupid ... Like not forcing timeout with the one and only pause you get , it's just common sense. ... Part of balancing face offs is the whole shebang , not just one little aspect ..
  • Taste-D-Rainbow
    2382 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    The worst is when your Dman receives a clean face off win in his skates and he does that stupid puck pickup (similar to this stance) that takes forever to get out of.

    hqdefault.jpg

    @KoryDub like this one?
  • Is the answer maybe that wingers should have their own portion of the faceoff system, and that the first few moments of all faceoffs are significantly more "scripted" to ensure that a defender doesn't have an opponent in their face the moment they get the puck? Have the wingers pick a "stance" before the faceoff, and then time their actions the same way a center would. This setup also assumes that faceoff wins are reduced to only a few feet instead of all the way back to the defenders.

    The stances could essentially just be pointing the RS in the direction you want your first stride to be (anything forward just initiates contact with the opposing winger), and then the "action" would be moving the LS to indicate the path you'd like to travel after the faceoff. Here's a couple examples to hopefully make it a bit more clear:

    LW at opening faceoff holds the RS at 8 o'clock to create some space initially between himself and the opposing winger, then moves the LS at puck drop to 8 o'clock and rolls it up to 11 o'clock to attempt to skate up ice for a rush wide.
    RW at opening faceoff holds RS at 12 to give the opponent a quick shove, and then at puck drop moves the LS to 7 or 8 so that he can gather the puck his center plans to win to that space and maybe catch their LW on their route up ice.
    LW at faceoff in offensive zone on the right side holds RS to 9 but doesn't use LS at puck drop, so he slides into the slot, hoping for the passing lane to open up and get a one-timer
    RW for opposing team in previous example just wants to tie up the LW so he holds RS at 12 and then at puck drop pushes the LS the direction he wants to push the opposing winger to. Pushing a player in the direction they're already trying to go would take them off stride a bit, but not much

    It addresses wingers being able to get into the faces of defenders with ease (requires them to take a slower path around opposing players, and also gives the other team the chance to block them), it promotes much stronger team play to coordinate on faceoffs, and it creates a more realistic looking faceoff.

    Thoughts?
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    Defenseman, more often than not, are being tied up in to a 'pass reception' animation which is just long enough for the forwards on the other team to get right up in their business.

    Hopefully the pass reception animation for d-men can be tuned to be faster and/or less obtrusive and allow us to interrupt it with a quick pass or shot.

    Players already move their sticks at super human speeds , turn their bodies on ridiculous angles ...
  • Dixonyu wrote: »
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    Ai need to better logic off the face off ...

    Backhand stick lift should beat tie up to balance face offs ...

    Forehand straight back beats tie ups.

    Yes it does, but is beat by both stick lifts and is the only face off that beats the tie up... If back hand stick lift beat tie up , it would balance out the faceoffs... It would complete the rock paper scissors effect . Currently tie up wins vs fore hand and backhand stick lift, and back hand drawback, every other faceoffs only beats two other types. Tie up completely dominates backhand faceoffs which is completely unbalanced ... back hand stick lift only beats forehand drawback, if it could beat the tie up, again it would balance face offs and make the rock paper scissors effect balanced ...

    If ea had a clue what was going on when they finally balanced eashl face off ratings ( which was just a complete bonehead move not to do that in the first place when their goal was to balance classes in the first place, really stupid when you think of it they promised balanced gameplay but don't even have the intelligence to execute it lol ) they would've balanced face offs themselves, but years later they are still stupid ... Like not forcing timeout with the one and only pause you get , it's just common sense. ... Part of balancing face offs is the whole shebang , not just one little aspect ..

    Why would anyone ever choose forehand if EA did what you're suggesting?
  • Dixonyu
    649 posts Member
    edited November 2016
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    Lynch-CAN wrote: »
    Dixonyu wrote: »
    Ai need to better logic off the face off ...

    Backhand stick lift should beat tie up to balance face offs ...

    Forehand straight back beats tie ups.

    Yes it does, but is beat by both stick lifts and is the only face off that beats the tie up... If back hand stick lift beat tie up , it would balance out the faceoffs... It would complete the rock paper scissors effect . Currently tie up wins vs fore hand and backhand stick lift, and back hand drawback, every other faceoffs only beats two other types. Tie up completely dominates backhand faceoffs which is completely unbalanced ... back hand stick lift only beats forehand drawback, if it could beat the tie up, again it would balance face offs and make the rock paper scissors effect balanced ...

    If ea had a clue what was going on when they finally balanced eashl face off ratings ( which was just a complete bonehead move not to do that in the first place when their goal was to balance classes in the first place, really stupid when you think of it they promised balanced gameplay but don't even have the intelligence to execute it lol ) they would've balanced face offs themselves, but years later they are still stupid ... Like not forcing timeout with the one and only pause you get , it's just common sense. ... Part of balancing face offs is the whole shebang , not just one little aspect ..

    Why would anyone ever choose forehand if EA did what you're suggesting?

    Forehand drawback beats - back hand drawback, tie up
    Forehand stick lift beats- backhand stick lift , forehand drawback

    Backhand stickift beats - forehand drawback

    Backhand drawback beats - forehand stick lift backhand stick lift

    Tie up beats - forehand stick lift , *back hand stick lift , backhand drawback

    Why would anyone currently use back hand face off ?


  • just don't win any face-oofs.
    Tastes Good With The Money https://youtube.com/watch?v=GS4dO-0YI2E
  • Hot dang, thanks for letting me know I am not the only one who feels it's funky. I have to head to some brain therapy, but look forward to reading this when I get back.

  • Is the answer maybe that wingers should have their own portion of the faceoff system, and that the first few moments of all faceoffs are significantly more "scripted" to ensure that a defender doesn't have an opponent in their face the moment they get the puck? Have the wingers pick a "stance" before the faceoff, and then time their actions the same way a center would. This setup also assumes that faceoff wins are reduced to only a few feet instead of all the way back to the defenders.

    The stances could essentially just be pointing the RS in the direction you want your first stride to be (anything forward just initiates contact with the opposing winger), and then the "action" would be moving the LS to indicate the path you'd like to travel after the faceoff. Here's a couple examples to hopefully make it a bit more clear:

    LW at opening faceoff holds the RS at 8 o'clock to create some space initially between himself and the opposing winger, then moves the LS at puck drop to 8 o'clock and rolls it up to 11 o'clock to attempt to skate up ice for a rush wide.
    RW at opening faceoff holds RS at 12 to give the opponent a quick shove, and then at puck drop moves the LS to 7 or 8 so that he can gather the puck his center plans to win to that space and maybe catch their LW on their route up ice.
    LW at faceoff in offensive zone on the right side holds RS to 9 but doesn't use LS at puck drop, so he slides into the slot, hoping for the passing lane to open up and get a one-timer
    RW for opposing team in previous example just wants to tie up the LW so he holds RS at 12 and then at puck drop pushes the LS the direction he wants to push the opposing winger to. Pushing a player in the direction they're already trying to go would take them off stride a bit, but not much

    It addresses wingers being able to get into the faces of defenders with ease (requires them to take a slower path around opposing players, and also gives the other team the chance to block them), it promotes much stronger team play to coordinate on faceoffs, and it creates a more realistic looking faceoff.

    Thoughts?

    I really think this solves most of the problems that people have with the current system. It gives teams that can win faceoffs with set plays a significant advantage, but also gives you a number of ways to counter it easily if a team if doing the same thing over and over. Maybe the exact mechanics would need to be tweaked a bit, but the general thought that wingers should have to do more than just skate full speed at the defenders to disrupt the play seems worthwhile.
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