Ultimately all blame falls on the people who make this game .
There is no chance in hell anyone in real nhl can rag the puck at the success or ease in this game .
But Becuase the skating is terrible with the player WITHOUT the puck , and how terrible tps is in general-- you better believe puck ragging is going to and is --exploitable/exploited
If you're kicking it back to your D 3-4 times in a row to try and enter the zone, you're ragging the puck man. Dump the puck in if you can't get in the zone.
You're kidding right?
No. 3-4 times because you cant get into my zone? Really dude? Just dump the puck because youre not good enough to get past my defense. I could spend an entire period watching you try and find a 'good entry'. Thats ragging. Do it once, maybe twice in a row - cool whatever. Keep doing it because you cant get in and youre ragging. That doesnt happen in real life.
See thats the problem, you play skill zone and sit everyone back, but when someone decides to drop back you cry. You can't have it both ways. You want the game played a certain way, well guess what, not everyone is going to follow your script.
Bunny is definitely not a skill zoner.
Sitting back defensively and waiting for your opponent to penetrate your defense is not skill zoning - its a legitimate way to stifle an offense.
Refusing to advance your movement in to the offensive zone, simply because you can't skate through a defensive setup is absolutely "ragging" the puck. Passing back a few times to reset is fine, but an obvious refusal to engage offensively is unsportsmanlike.
Well your definition of ragging is different from mine. in my opinion ragging is when you have the lead and your sole purpose is to keep the puck away from your opponent to win the game.
This is not real life, the reason puck ragging is so effective is because of the lack of forecheck effectiveness.
This is right. Here's a clip of me going against a puck ragger. I ended up getting the puck back because he was, frankly, boneheaded about his skating, but look at my team. This is with all forecheck settings all the way to the right, so full forecheck, high pressure defense, and my guys still fell back and just hung out in the neutral zone as soon as the ragger cleared his zone:
Problem is you have this Generation of young people that have NOT ONE CLUE what real hockey looks like because EA allows them to Glitch and Exploit the flaws in the game without Consequences.
Dumb AI - they run into each other, run into you, run into the net/goalie, IF AI had somewhat of a brain, I could cover the right side of the net and the AI would take the left side, trapping the Ragger behind his net but nooooo AI is far too stupid.
Figure skating (without ever getting tired) - I had a guy pass the puck from his goalie to Rob Scuderi (LA) and then Scuderi figure skated figure 8s coming up the ice, pulling off a Datsyuk type deke in the Neutral Zone and then did a jump deke across my blue line...seriously EA Rob **** Scuderi.
Puck Protect bubble - Self Explanatory!
I've been accused of Cheating because I had the audacity to play DEFENSE (not chase the figure skater in the corner). Been accused of Cheating because I had the audacity to play Dump and Chase (against the trap) and Win the majority of the 50/50 pucks (some lead directly to goals). Been accused of Cheating (playing keep away/ragging the puck) because I had the audacity to Set up in the zone and Cycle the puck (hardly call accumulating 10, 11, 12min worth of TOA Ragging the puck).
IF you watch the Pens, you'll see that they do something like you(Bacon) do. The Dmen will join the rush and if the Attacking player doesn't have a clear lane, he'll drop the puck back to the Dman in the Neutral Zone back by Pens blue line
The young people do know what real hockey looks like. But many will choose to do whatever it takes to win over trying to simulate the sport.
This is not real life, the reason puck ragging is so effective is because of the lack of forecheck effectiveness.
This is right. Here's a clip of me going against a puck ragger. I ended up getting the puck back because he was, frankly, boneheaded about his skating, but look at my team. This is with all forecheck settings all the way to the right, so full forecheck, high pressure defense, and my guys still fell back and just hung out in the neutral zone as soon as the ragger cleared his zone:
If you're kicking it back to your D 3-4 times in a row to try and enter the zone, you're ragging the puck man. Dump the puck in if you can't get in the zone.
You're kidding right?
No. 3-4 times because you cant get into my zone? Really dude? Just dump the puck because youre not good enough to get past my defense. I could spend an entire period watching you try and find a 'good entry'. Thats ragging. Do it once, maybe twice in a row - cool whatever. Keep doing it because you cant get in and youre ragging. That doesnt happen in real life.
Are you serious? You can't tell someone how to play the game. It's games fault for allowing this strategy to be utilized.
I hated playing against puck raggers.
Here's how ea can fix it:
1) make body checking more powerful. People think checking is just for defense, but it's a powerful offensive tool for forechecking and you will actually be able to deal with puck raggers like OP if hitting is more powerful.
This is the only game I can think of where the physical contact is no where near the level it should be compared to real life. Most games go the other way, where the hitting is very over exaggerated.
2) decrease puck control
I swear, EA could have had a decent game on their hands with 16 (and this applies to 17 too) if they knew how to set their default online sliders properly. They completely nerf their game with bad sliders.
Not saying sliders would totally save the game, but if set properly, they could make the game much better.
The disparity between definitions is amazing. I got called a puck ragger the other day for passing it around his offensive zone [/b]and then retreating with 5 seconds left. I wasn't going to shoot unless it was perfect and it didn't happen.
To me it is all about intent. If you're intentionally playing keep away in the neutral zone or your defensive zone with the sole purpose of killing the clock that's ragging in my book.
And knowing the amount of goals the game gives up at the end of the period/game is more of reason to employ your strategy. Not your fault, you're adapting to the broken engine.
To the Bold part: EA created this culture (swear the younger Generation has no freaking clue what Real Hockey looks like...wouldn't know what a good Cycle looked like if it slapped them in the face).
I've been ACCUSED of CHEATING because I had the Audacity to play.....Defense
I've been ACCUSED of CHEATING because I ran the Dump and Chase (against the Trap) and I won the majority of the 50/50 loose pucks (some leading directly to a goal)
I've been ACCUSED of CHEATING because I would gain the zone (off of a Dump and Chase) and play "keep away"...CYCLE the Puck
IF you don't figure skate, abuse puck protect or try tirelessly the same move/play over and again, it's seen as cheating because THEY HAVE NO CLUE what REAL HOCKEY looks like.
This is how I think their brains process this scenario: Wait Wait Wait, you made a pass from your low RW to your high RD and then quickly across to your high LD for a one timer deflection goal...YOU CHEATED
Well, in my book, picking up the controller with the intent to play is cheating.
Ragging is skating around in your own zone playing keep-away when you have the lead. In RL attempting this would be idiotic because you would quickly end up losing the puck and creating an opportunity for the opponent, but in this game it is very, very hard to get the puck from someone who decides to skate back into their own zone after having been in the neutral zone. This is especially true if the guy has "all out offense", since this pushes back your AI D, making it very hard to apply any real pressure, even with the most aggressive forecheck.
No real fatigue engine is another factor with puck ragging. Skaters never get tired enough that they can get caught.
Agreed. Would love to see more fatigue effect and would also love to see some animations indicating players are tired.
I thought there used to be an animation where players would be obviously slowed down due to fatigue.. (big arm movement, head down..etc).
I would not want anything to indicate a player is tired, that's all these jerks need is a Indication that his figure skater is growing tired. Hey, I can see he's getting tired (quickly passes it of to team mate and begins figure skating again with a more fresh player). IF you can't be bothered/aren't smart enough to change up your lines frequently on your own accord, why do you deserve to have ANY kind of indication that said players are growing tired?
I'm not going to advance the puck if I have the lead and my opponent wants to sit back in the 1-3-1 or 1-4 and not forecheck. If they send a guy or two to pressure, then I advance the puck through the defensive seams created. But there is zero reason to try and work the puck into the zone essentially 1 on 5 due to the AI not being able to find open lanes into the zone if my opponent isn't even trying to pressure me.
Basically this entire video is how I view it, I side completely with Philly.
why do you deserve to have ANY kind of indication that said players are growing tired?
I understand that users should be aware of their line's current energy levels. Bringing up the line change screen is a good way to accomplish this and I get that.
However, saying there should be no physical indicators on the players that they're tired is a little confusing to me.
Anyone who watches or plays hockey can notice the body language being displayed by a tired player. It's not just slowing down, but there's indicators such as having your head down while trying to rejoin the rush. Overreaching for hits and poke check, etc.
To say that these indicators have no place in the game sounds absurd to me. We have indicators that show when an action that resulted in a penalty has happened (holding the face, shaking off a hand, falling when being tripped) - why not fatigued players?
Valid argument but just have players slow down, get weaker....Opponent sees he's slowing down and trys a 10ft pass to fresher player BUT he's also weaker and pass doesn't quite make it there and gets picked off. This is where I wish the AI had more of a brain as well (NOT asking for them to be smart enough to solve Quantum Physics problems but SHOULD BE smart enough to recognize the situation and make adjustments)
When you have a TIRED Dman going into the corner to fetch the puck, the Attacking team generally focuses on that TIRED player and Ups the pressure on him (more of a chance for a turn over)
I'm confused why people would be opposed to a fatigue bar. NBA2k17 added the "ball handling" fatigue this year to go along with their normal energy bar and the way it works is that each move the ball carrier makes drains a bit of energy from the fatigue bar. Along with this comes slower movement and more inaccurate shots. I think it's a great idea and it works and is executed pretty much perfectly.
I'm not going to advance the puck if I have the lead and my opponent wants to sit back in the 1-3-1 or 1-4 and not forecheck. If they send a guy or two to pressure, then I advance the puck through the defensive seams created. But there is zero reason to try and work the puck into the zone essentially 1 on 5 due to the AI not being able to find open lanes into the zone if my opponent isn't even trying to pressure me.
Basically this entire video is how I view it, I side completely with Philly.
i support this message.... i wont lie. if you play the trap and dont forcheck at all when i have the lead, damn right im gonna sit and do nothing, why would i try to force a play when i dont have to? Im in the lead your the one who has to score not me
Ragging the puck vs what Philly did in that game are two different things. The Flyers refused to attack and sat back waiting. Puck raggers take advantage of the fact that it is damn near impossible to get the puck away from someone who protects it while curling around protecting the puck in their zone. Your AI teammates don't effectively come in to support you, and so the guy with the puck is basically untouchable unless you spam stick lift, hit, and poke check. On top of that, the player with the puck will usually get the puck back if it comes loose while ragging it. It is a cheap way to take advantage of an unbalanced game. If the game were balanced, the players reacted like real players, and the defense had the proper tools, this wouldn't be able to happen. Since it can people cheese it to death to waste time. Lame.
It is absolutely amazing how people come on to this thread and attempt to define ragging. We don't need two page summaries. It is not this theoretical myth of the abyss. Ragging is the act of keeping control of the puck with the intent of running out the clock to win the game. Plain and simple. Stop adding garbage and your own opinions, nobody cares.
Replies
There is no chance in hell anyone in real nhl can rag the puck at the success or ease in this game .
But Becuase the skating is terrible with the player WITHOUT the puck , and how terrible tps is in general-- you better believe puck ragging is going to and is --exploitable/exploited
Well your definition of ragging is different from mine. in my opinion ragging is when you have the lead and your sole purpose is to keep the puck away from your opponent to win the game.
This is right. Here's a clip of me going against a puck ragger. I ended up getting the puck back because he was, frankly, boneheaded about his skating, but look at my team. This is with all forecheck settings all the way to the right, so full forecheck, high pressure defense, and my guys still fell back and just hung out in the neutral zone as soon as the ragger cleared his zone:
The young people do know what real hockey looks like. But many will choose to do whatever it takes to win over trying to simulate the sport.
Welcome to online gaming bud.
and yet just another feature that is broken in this broken game, smh.
Are you serious? You can't tell someone how to play the game. It's games fault for allowing this strategy to be utilized.
I hated playing against puck raggers.
Here's how ea can fix it:
1) make body checking more powerful. People think checking is just for defense, but it's a powerful offensive tool for forechecking and you will actually be able to deal with puck raggers like OP if hitting is more powerful.
This is the only game I can think of where the physical contact is no where near the level it should be compared to real life. Most games go the other way, where the hitting is very over exaggerated.
2) decrease puck control
I swear, EA could have had a decent game on their hands with 16 (and this applies to 17 too) if they knew how to set their default online sliders properly. They completely nerf their game with bad sliders.
Not saying sliders would totally save the game, but if set properly, they could make the game much better.
Well, in my book, picking up the controller with the intent to play is cheating.
Just stellar bro, stellar
I think the last thing the game needs is MORE animations..
I would not want anything to indicate a player is tired, that's all these jerks need is a Indication that his figure skater is growing tired. Hey, I can see he's getting tired (quickly passes it of to team mate and begins figure skating again with a more fresh player). IF you can't be bothered/aren't smart enough to change up your lines frequently on your own accord, why do you deserve to have ANY kind of indication that said players are growing tired?
Basically this entire video is how I view it, I side completely with Philly.
Valid argument but just have players slow down, get weaker....Opponent sees he's slowing down and trys a 10ft pass to fresher player BUT he's also weaker and pass doesn't quite make it there and gets picked off. This is where I wish the AI had more of a brain as well (NOT asking for them to be smart enough to solve Quantum Physics problems but SHOULD BE smart enough to recognize the situation and make adjustments)
When you have a TIRED Dman going into the corner to fetch the puck, the Attacking team generally focuses on that TIRED player and Ups the pressure on him (more of a chance for a turn over)
That'd be great for this series IMO.
i support this message.... i wont lie. if you play the trap and dont forcheck at all when i have the lead, damn right im gonna sit and do nothing, why would i try to force a play when i dont have to? Im in the lead your the one who has to score not me