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The developers should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves

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Let me start by saying that this game, as it currently exists, is unacceptable. The gameplay itself is unacceptable. How many years has this development team had this game now? For it to still be in the state it's in shows the developers contempt for both their audience, and the sport they are simulating. If I worked for EA on this game is would be embarrassed to say so. How many years does it take to fix the problem where when you knock the CPU player down, he still retains the puck 95% of the time? This was a problem in NHL 08, it was a problem in NHL 14, and amazingly it's still a problem today.
It's unacceptable that the players AI teammates don't behave as if they have ever played a game of hockey before. Is there anyone on the development team that played the game growing up? I doubt it. How can they release a product that claims to simulate NHL hockey, when the off winger on a 2 on 1 repeatedly drives AWAY from the net? Drive the far post. If you ever played hockey, this is one of the first lessons every kid learns. Drive the far post, stick down. It doesn't matter if you are the left wing and the far post is on the right side. If your team has posession of the puck moving into the zone, drive the far post, STICK DOWN. The game has actually regressed in this area. That's insane. The dev team is so concerned with getting out the next pack that they don't give a hoot about the actual gameplay. Today, I repeatedly had the puck stripped from me by CPU players whose sticks switched hands in an instant and passed through my players legs and bodies, then an invisible force pushing the CPU player away from mine with total posession and momentum.
Speaking of momentum, is it really that hard to get the teammate AI to turn around and skate towards the offensive zone? How many turnovers must be endured because the forwards simply won't start going in the other direction? This is basic stuff, how do you miss this and feel proud of your work? How do you create a broken stick mechanic, where, and I started keeping track, the last 50 times a stick has broken, 47 of them were user controlled, while the CPU only broke 3 sticks, all in games where the outcome was already clear, and never on scoring attempts, always on meaningless dump ins, which they of recovered immediately.
How can you feel good about including a bunch of sliders that are pure placebos? (Not all the sliders, but some). Try turning a penalty like elbowing down to 0, and watch your guys still get called for it every other time you throw a body check. Try turning your passing accuracy and CPU pass Interceptions all the way up or down, there is no difference whatsoever. Turn the CPU pass accuracy to 0 and watch them still pass 95%.
Speaking of passing, who designed this garbage system? How many times will I aim cross point, only to have the puck fly towards the net, or aim cross crease, only to have the puck fly to the point? The passing in 1000x worse than the old gen games. How can you release a game where such a thing is true, and not feel that you are awful at your job?
How do you release a "franchise mode" where computer controlled GM's trade for star players and leave them in the minors, or where star players go 3 years without a contract? Or where no trades are made by the CPU for 3 years? I have played 4 dollar games on the PC that are able to simulate GMS that understand the teams strengths and weaknesses and act accordingly, yet the 70 dollar game by Electronic Arts, the people that made classic games as far back as Mail Order Monsters for the C64 can't even come close to that? What a joke.
There are so many other things, from the constant crashes, to the absurd puck "physics" but it's just depressing to keep writing about it. The worst part is that so many issues that people are vocal about, problems that kill immersion like fighting getting reset every year in franchise and Be a Pro, go ignored and uncommented on by the developers. I had to post like 5 messages just to find out why they took custom signs out of the game, and then the answer I got was just an admission they had done it, after yet another post, they finally admitted they took them out of OFFLINE modes because of cowardice. It's absurd and sad. Have some pride in your work and realize that lots of people love this sport, even if the developers don't, and it's sad to see you spit in our faces like this, especially those of us who don't feel the need to keep spending money after buying the game.
That's the end of my rant. I know the devs won't care and some fanboys will get all b*tt hurt by this but I'm fed up with this lazy, inferior product. Fix your game, starting with the AI, or step aside and hire people who can. Have some pride.

Replies

  • Right on cue.... the fanboys....
  • RangerFanatic101
    315 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    Well said, I must admit when I saw your thread, I said "here we go again" and almost past it up. The team is beyond being embarrassed, they need to go. Of course you get the community people who swear by this game. To be honest I've played some of them, and it only confirms my suspicions that they've mastered the broken engine, this is evident with the AI's ignorance. Once you figure out the AI's dumb tendency you can exploit it. And of course the glitch goals that go in all the time regardless if you have a 84 rated goalie or 94. I'm still scratching my head how Nick Holden caught up to Pavel Bure on a breakaway straight from center ice. The rating system really doesn't exist when you see this garbage happening. Love the dumb AI's that skate away from loose pucks or (with full throttle offensive) skate back towards their own end when I'm trying to break out or don't even face the puck. But hey, I have to play better defense, which really means, spam the poke check and play skill-zone. Oh yeah, lots of skill in this community. ROFL
  • SaveUs2K wrote: »
    Deyyy tuukkk RR CUZTIMZASHUN!!!!

    Oh now Mr Tickles, don't you go and get all kattywompus on me now.
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    DeejNYLV wrote: »
    Let me start by saying that this game, as it currently exists, is unacceptable. The gameplay itself is unacceptable. How many years has this development team had this game now? For it to still be in the state it's in shows the developers contempt for both their audience, and the sport they are simulating. If I worked for EA on this game is would be embarrassed to say so.

    I get your frustration, really I do, but dont you think this is a bit over the top? Do you really think the DEVELOPERS hold their customers and all of ice hockey in contempt?? Seriously?

    That said, while I will be the first to admit I like 17 a lot (warts and all) and am one of the games biggest apologists, you do make some good points.
    DeejNYLV wrote: »
    How many years does it take to fix the problem where when you knock the CPU player down, he still retains the puck 95% of the time?
    The above one is maddening beyond, and sadly is not restricted to AI. This happens to me *all the time* in club. I play Defensive D, demolish a guy and even tho I am standing over him and the puck, I cant pick it up and make a simple play before someone else scoops it up - often the player I have demolished
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • As harsh as it may seem to wish people fired I agree 100%.

    How many of you have a job where this kind of blatant incompetence can be accepted?

    Personally if I were to perform as bad as the employee's at EA people would get injured or worse.

    So if EA can not find people who are capable of programming their game maybe it is time to stop the Hockey title all together.
  • Its not the programmers/developers fault, its their boss's fault for being hard headed in staying the course with TPS and broken vision control, too prideful (which is a sin) to admit "hey, it was good on paper and had good intentions, but result is destructive" lets change it up, get this game back to being fun.
  • So all you geniuses who think the entire dev team should be fired... how long do you think it would take another team to get up to speed, understand the issues (assuming they even see/agree with the same issues you do) and fix them? NHL....23?
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • "So all you geniuses who think the entire dev team should be fired... how long do you think it would take another team to get up to speed, understand the issues (assuming they even see/agree with the same issues you do) and fix them? NHL....23? "

    Developers/programmers do what they are told, so its not them who should go. It's the decision makers, managers over the developers/programmers who need to go. We need new direction, that only comes with new leadership in that group.
  • When people feel like they got 'ripped off' with another lousy title release, can't blame them (can you?) for taking shots at the people responsible..
  • IceLion68
    1624 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    Man there is so much anger and hyperbole in here. You'd think that EA shipped a game that literally didn't work. Or that they shot someones dog.

    Am I literally the only one who is having fun with this game (mostly. I mean I am not clueless, there are still what-the-f-moments aplenty)
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • Kory the reason so many people are pissed at EA all the time is because EA releases basically the same game, every single year for full price, often with more problems then the year before. Some new ones to go along with the carryovers. 5 years down the road it just seems insane that they basically release the same damn game again, with a few new twists (most of which are pointless), but it's like they have done nothing to address all of the concerns that they stopped addressing in November of the previous year's release.

    At the end of the day it makes the EA devs appear to be a lazy group of game developers. All of EA sports titles suffer from this but NHL is the worst. If I didn't play online almost exclusively I would have stopped buying NHL years ago. But almost everyone that plays EASHL buys the new game in fear of being left behind to try and play a game on empty servers.

    If this was a game that they released every few years and the development team worked on working out the kinks during those times, I don't think you would have even 75% of the complaints against the devs here. But the fact that it's been this same rinse and repeat crap every year just sucks. New game coming out with all kinds of hype, all kinds of promises along the lines "yes we realized we f'ed up last year but those things will all be fixed this year", we get the game and 2 days in we realize it's not terrible but many promises missed, a patch is released that fixes one major bug but usually causes all kinds of new problems. And if we are lucky we get maybe two more fixes before christmas and that's it. Then we are left, like we are doing now, hoping for next year's full price investment to provide a few more fixes. Sorry but that's ****. I think it's time to EA to look at new pricing models for their games that essentially never change. There's so many games out there that their lifecycles are done so much better and often much cheaper.

    Sorry but when I pay for a Ferrari and they hand me keys to a Kia... I'm not going to be happy just because a Kia is a "fine" car. I'm going to complain that I'm not getting what I pay for.

  • But clearly what is going on at EA with its Dev team now is not acceptable and if a new team could not fix the problems then scrap the entire game and start over with a new team and a new game .

    Considering we pay for a new game every year and just get recycled garbage.

    This is the only option for NHL 18 or lose many customers including me.
  • @jmwalsh8888

    You do what a lot of people do . You generalize and paint this broad spectrum of negativity without going In to specifics.

    To say this is the same game lol , what does that even Mean? Of course it's the same game , it's hockey .

    You're saying the gameplay has remained the same for years. Lol. That's a farce . The fact is the gameplay has changed over the years either for better or worse .

    The one consistent negative is the servers really blow for me personally. Very inconsistent. That is unacceptable. That I can get behind .

    Speaking strictly from an EASHL Dman perspective, it's very much improved. Work still needs to be done of course, but very much improved
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    @DeejNYLV

    Your post is appreciated. Thank you for being coherent with your thoughts and laying them out in an organized fashion. It goes a long way.

    Just to touch on a few things:
    For it to still be in the state it's in shows the developers contempt for both their audience,

    Let's cool down a little here. The theme of your post is that EA ignores all of the issues raised by the community. You could not be any further from the truth. It's not that they are ignoring the issues, it's just that these issues take time to sort out. Just because EA's timeline doesn't match up with what you feel is a good timeline, doesn't mean they don't care. Your anticipated schedule for how and when this game should fixed is coming from a perspective that has likely never been involved in making a game before.

    I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're coming at it from a fan who has (likely) never stepped foot inside a game studio. You think these issues are 'easy' to resolve - but that's like saying it's easy to build a house when you've never picked up a hammer before.
    Is there anyone on the development team that played the game growing up? I doubt it.

    Again with the assumptions. What kind of claim is that to make? Do you actually think this is accurate? Do you firmly believe that on an entire NHL Videogame development team - based in Vancouver, CANADA - has literally ZERO people on staff who have never played hockey at any level? Give me a break.
    Try turning a penalty like elbowing down to 0, and watch your guys still get called for it every other time you throw a body check.

    If this happens just as you've described, it is absolutely broken. I can't speak to this particular issue myself, because I haven't messed with the penalty sliders - but if it happens as you say, provide some video of you reproducing the issue with some success. Again, if it happens as you say it does, reproducing it should be easy and providing that evidence can go a long way in helping resolve those issues.
    I have played 4 dollar games on the PC that are able to simulate GMS that understand the teams strengths and weaknesses and act accordingly,

    What other gameplay elements do the developers of the $4 PC game deal with?

    Not saying you're wrong. EHM does a great job in the GM A.I. department - definitely better than what we're used to in GM Mode now - I'll concede that. However, let's be real here - EHM has literally nothing else to deal with.
    ignored and uncommented on by the developers.

    You're not entitled to have direct communication with the developers. None of us are. It's a privilege to have guys like Ben come in here and provide some in depth analysis of some of the issues we see day-to-day.

    Furthermore, like Ben has mentioned in a recent post - when they did come in and comment saying that "it was being worked on" or was "on the map for fixes" - this community just used that to create a 'meme' of sorts. It was the **** of so many jokes - yet that same community wonders why they don't comment more and are being "ignored".

    You're not being ignored. All of the issues raised in the community end up in a bug reporting database at some point. Those are then prioritized. Now, before you get on me about who prioritizes these things and how YOU would prioritize bugs - the bug database includes MANY things that take priority due to their impact on the game. It includes things you are likely unaware of, so you're in no position to say what needs priority and what doesn't.
    I had to post like 5 messages just to find out why they took custom signs out of the game, and then the answer I got was just an admission they had done it, after yet another post, they finally admitted they took them out of OFFLINE modes because of cowardice. It's absurd and sad. Have some pride in your work and realize that lots of people love this sport, even if the developers don't, and it's sad to see you spit in our faces like this, especially those of us who don't feel the need to keep spending money after buying the game.

    Custom Signs were such a big priority for you. You NEEDED to know why they were gone, regardless of the gameplay impact they have. This speaks to your specific 'fixes' and how you would prioritize them. I think it goes without saying that a majority of the community didn't even notice the omission of signs in online play. Yet, you made it a point to post "5 messages" and you're still upset after they acknowledged it! All over a silly sign in the crowd.

    You're original post is great. Well worded, passionate - and you call out the **** fanboys like myself. I like that. Keep it up.

    But that passion you showed would be more suited for the REAL issues you've raised in regards to A.I. and the potential penalty bug you've discovered.

    Also - stop questioning the 'pride' these guys have in their work. It's a rude accusation to make, even behind the anonymous mask of this forum. They aren't 'spitting' in your face either. Chill out.

    Again, you show some good knowledge and passion for the game in your post. Just leave out the personal attacks and the claims EA doesn't care. I like how you approached the rest of your post and I wish more would do the same.

    Listen Kory, I get that you are a moderator here slugger, and so you feel you are honor bound to be a boot licking sycophant, but your condescension and hypocrisy are quite grating. You bang on me for making assumptions, then (wrongly) claim I have never been around game development (and no, your parenthetical "likely" doesn't wipe away your hypocrisy).

    You start off your mewling praise of your bosses by saying that issues aren't ignored, but prioritized, and that issues take time. That would be an acceptable statement if some of these problems (check a guy, knock him down, cannot retrieve the puck for example) weren't YEARS old. YEARS. That is unacceptable, and shows that the devs are lazy and uninterested in anything but making sure the next $$$$$ making pack is out for HUT, which is the only thing in this game that is a priority at all.

    You next say "give me a break" regarding my questioning of whether or not any of the devs have played hockey before, yet you certainly didn't seem able to say for sure that they have. I still have my doubts.

    Next up is something I have seen you do before, which is try to shift more of the devs work to the customer. Telling me to to produce video and reproduce bugs or problems for them. I just told you what they were. It's their game, they should be able to take it from there. It's not my job to fix their shoddy, lazy work for them.

    Next up champ, is the comment about GM AI, I don't expect the GM AI to be as good as a game completely devoted to that one aspect, but I do expect it to have a semblance of logic and competence. This means that teams don't trade for star 95 overall players and then leave them in the minors or not make trades based on need and when applicable, salary cap concerns. The GM AI in this game does almost nothing, but make 3 or 4 random trades a season (almost always star players for picks and prospects that are never even in the ball park for actual value) in which the acquired players are for some reason sent to the minors and never called up. This is lazy and insulting work.

    Next up... it's not a privilege to have a developer come into the forum, lie about giving a s**t about a customer's concern, and then do nothing about it. It's so well known that if it's not a concern for the $$$$ driven HUT, the devs will pay no attention to it, to the point where people joke about **** posts about gameplay "I didn't get my pack" or " HUT didn't charge me for those coins" etc... OH, and as a customer, I AM entitled to communicate with the person who made the product I bought when it doesn't meet basic standards for competence. As far as being in a position to say what bugs take priority, again, as a a customer that paid for this game, I am in a position to comment on that, and bugs that have existed for a decade should have priority (actually, they shouldn't exist anymore).

    Finally, I absolutely do, and will continue to question whether these developers have any pride in their work, as they fail to grasp what is important in simulating a game that I have loved and actually played for 30+ years. The game is supposed to be hockey, not just a vehicle for micro transactions, got it Junior?
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