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EA Dev, TPS needs to be better or else this game will never reach potential

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  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    If the Dev's mantra is "The user has to be more accountable", then I put forth that the Dev team should ALSO be more accountable for how the game plays. The user can't be at fault for doing things he's been doing for years, only to find out that it's not how you're supposed to be doing it in THIS game. The game needs to convey to the user what he's supposed to do clearly. You can't give conflicting messages and expect the user will NOT get frustrated when things don't always work as expected. That's on the DEVELOPERS head, not the user's fault for "not doing things correctly".

    Yes! The team needs to do more for explaining how the user-controlled mechanics of the game work. A series of video tutorials please. And not like the near-useless ones they have now.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    If the Dev's mantra is "The user has to be more accountable", then I put forth that the Dev team should ALSO be more accountable for how the game plays. The user can't be at fault for doing things he's been doing for years, only to find out that it's not how you're supposed to be doing it in THIS game. The game needs to convey to the user what he's supposed to do clearly. You can't give conflicting messages and expect the user will NOT get frustrated when things don't always work as expected. That's on the DEVELOPERS head, not the user's fault for "not doing things correctly".

    Yes! The team needs to do more for explaining how the user-controlled mechanics of the game work. A series of video tutorials please. And not like the near-useless ones they have now.

    Doesn't have to be videos. It can be a series of trials the user can go through (kinda like in the FIFA series) and he gets graded not only on if he succeeds or fails, but how WELL he performs the actions needed. If he's spazzing out with the thumbsticks, the game should grade the user lower and explain that he needs to slow down the movements and be smoother on the controls to acheive what he wants.

    Trials can start out by your basic actions, like skating, shooting, passing. And then ramp up in difficulty. One of the trials could be how to perform a successful pivot from a standstill in both directions, three times. Give the user a reward for how well he does in each trial, with the maximum score reached if he obtains a platinum medal (bronze, silver, gold, platinum). And have trials for each different position: forwards, defense and goalie.

    If the user doesn't go through the trials, well then... that's his fault. He can't blame EA or the game for NOT wanting to teach him how to play.
  • Will there be any more patches/tuners or will this be it for the rest of the year?
  • Don't forget the AI racing to the blue line if the puck exits the zone, regardless of whether or not the other team already has gained possession and is charging back into the zone, or standing 4 feet off the boards at the point instead of being ready to grab the pass along the boards, or skating directly at you on the breakout instead of to the clearly open lane they have.

    It's downright comical how bad they are sometimes.

    The racing to the blue line even when the puck carrier is charging back into the zone is the absolute worst, and the incredible thing is that it's totally new -- the AI never did this before. So somehow the devs decided it was a good idea to add this into the game.

    The AI's defensive logic in particular is just abysmal this year, and TPS just makes it worse, because it means there's no hope of recovering from an AI mistake.

  • SharlonD wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    People who are good at this game, people who mostly win at this game, complain and hate the game... That is honesty right there about the state of the game, you are good and you win but still do not like the game.


    Who have you been talking to lmao stop lying

    no offense but anyone who is anyone in this game online, doesn't gaf about offline players nor should we. you have literally no idea what you're talking about.
  • SharlonD wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    People who are good at this game, people who mostly win at this game, complain and hate the game... That is honesty right there about the state of the game, you are good and you win but still do not like the game.


    Who have you been talking to lmao stop lying

    no offense but anyone who is anyone in this game online, doesn't gaf about offline players nor should we. you have literally no idea what you're talking about.

    I second that with the exception that I really don't care if you are offended.
  • SharlonD wrote: »
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    People who are good at this game, people who mostly win at this game, complain and hate the game... That is honesty right there about the state of the game, you are good and you win but still do not like the game.


    Who have you been talking to lmao stop lying

    no offense but anyone who is anyone in this game online, doesn't gaf about offline players nor should we. you have literally no idea what you're talking about.


    I never play offline so yea I agree I don't gaf about offline players. I rarely hear complaints about the game when I'm playing online whether it's my team in vg or just drop ins was my point.. not sure what you're talking about
  • 52913471.jpg

    Meow.
  • 2cr9dfs.jpg

    (This isn't a direct reply in relation to Venom's post, I'm just talking to the whole thread in general). I agree that they needed to do a better job of telling people HOW to use it if we're apparently all "just doing it wrong". However, that time has passed, and it doesn't really matter anyway - it's been 5 years now; we all know how the TPS works, this is nothing new. This is not year 1 with us just a couple months into a new engine, this is year 5, we're not lost, and we know how to use it - we've been playing on it for 5 years. Pretending we're all just newborn fawns lost in the wilderness of this great, vast engine of "realism" that EA has provided us that we just can't comprehend, all because we're star struck that they're listening and finally answering us directly and we don't wanna seem ungrateful or mean, is doing nothing but making them think "Oh, maybe they really don't know how to use it afterall! THAT'S the problem! That's all it was, whew! Ok, cool, we're on the right track!". No, we're not on the right track. It's horrible, it's terrible, it's clunky, it's wonky, it's ****ty, it has been for 5 years, and just about everyone who's played it online has hated it for all 5 years. Yes, forums will always have hate threads, but it's worse around here now than it ever has been, and it's for a reason - people have finally had enough. The ship is sinking. It's time to get rid of this engine and replace it with something new. Again, we appreciate the effort and the idea behind it and what it was supposed to be, but it just didn't pan out. They can continue on full speed ahead if they like, but it'll be right into an iceberg. The AI behavior/decisions need a lot of reworking as discussed as well.
  • 2cr9dfs.jpg

    (This isn't a direct reply in relation to Venom's post, I'm just talking to the whole thread in general). I agree that they needed to do a better job of telling people HOW to use it if we're apparently all "just doing it wrong". However, that time has passed, and it doesn't really matter anyway - it's been 5 years now; we all know how the TPS works, this is nothing new. This is not year 1 with us just a couple months into a new engine, this is year 5, we're not lost, and we know how to use it - we've been playing on it for 5 years. Pretending we're all just newborn fawns lost in the wilderness of this great, vast engine of "realism" that EA has provided us that we just can't comprehend, all because we're star struck that they're listening and finally answering us directly and we don't wanna seem ungrateful or mean, is doing nothing but making them think "Oh, maybe they really don't know how to use it afterall! THAT'S the problem! That's all it was, whew! Ok, cool, we're on the right track!". No, we're not on the right track. It's horrible, it's terrible, it's clunky, it's wonky, it's ****ty, it has been for 5 years, and just about everyone who's played it online has hated it for all 5 years. Yes, forums will always have hate threads, but it's worse around here now than it ever has been, and it's for a reason - people have finally had enough. The ship is sinking. It's time to get rid of this engine and replace it with something new. Again, we appreciate the effort and the idea behind it and what it was supposed to be, but it just didn't pan out. They can continue on full speed ahead if they like, but it'll be right into an iceberg. The AI behavior/decisions need a lot of reworking as discussed as well.

    Wow, great post!! I couldn't have said it better myself!

    And +1 for the picture ;)

  • SharlonD
    82 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    2cr9dfs.jpg

    (This isn't a direct reply in relation to Venom's post, I'm just talking to the whole thread in general). I agree that they needed to do a better job of telling people HOW to use it if we're apparently all "just doing it wrong". However, that time has passed, and it doesn't really matter anyway - it's been 5 years now; we all know how the TPS works, this is nothing new. This is not year 1 with us just a couple months into a new engine, this is year 5, we're not lost, and we know how to use it - we've been playing on it for 5 years. Pretending we're all just newborn fawns lost in the wilderness of this great, vast engine of "realism" that EA has provided us that we just can't comprehend, all because we're star struck that they're listening and finally answering us directly and we don't wanna seem ungrateful or mean, is doing nothing but making them think "Oh, maybe they really don't know how to use it afterall! THAT'S the problem! That's all it was, whew! Ok, cool, we're on the right track!". No, we're not on the right track. It's horrible, it's terrible, it's clunky, it's wonky, it's ****ty, it has been for 5 years, and just about everyone who's played it online has hated it for all 5 years. Yes, forums will always have hate threads, but it's worse around here now than it ever has been, and it's for a reason - people have finally had enough. The ship is sinking. It's time to get rid of this engine and replace it with something new. Again, we appreciate the effort and the idea behind it and what it was supposed to be, but it just didn't pan out. They can continue on full speed ahead if they like, but it'll be right into an iceberg. The AI behavior/decisions need a lot of reworking as discussed as well.


    Speak for yourself man I love the skating in 17.. easily the best it's ever been.. I'll agree with whichever devs said you don't know how to use it because I never have problems with it so clearly it works.. it's just a matter of being competent enough
    Post edited by SharlonD on
  • SharlonD wrote: »
    2cr9dfs.jpg

    (This isn't a direct reply in relation to Venom's post, I'm just talking to the whole thread in general). I agree that they needed to do a better job of telling people HOW to use it if we're apparently all "just doing it wrong". However, that time has passed, and it doesn't really matter anyway - it's been 5 years now; we all know how the TPS works, this is nothing new. This is not year 1 with us just a couple months into a new engine, this is year 5, we're not lost, and we know how to use it - we've been playing on it for 5 years. Pretending we're all just newborn fawns lost in the wilderness of this great, vast engine of "realism" that EA has provided us that we just can't comprehend, all because we're star struck that they're listening and finally answering us directly and we don't wanna seem ungrateful or mean, is doing nothing but making them think "Oh, maybe they really don't know how to use it afterall! THAT'S the problem! That's all it was, whew! Ok, cool, we're on the right track!". No, we're not on the right track. It's horrible, it's terrible, it's clunky, it's wonky, it's ****ty, it has been for 5 years, and just about everyone who's played it online has hated it for all 5 years. Yes, forums will always have hate threads, but it's worse around here now than it ever has been, and it's for a reason - people have finally had enough. The ship is sinking. It's time to get rid of this engine and replace it with something new. Again, we appreciate the effort and the idea behind it and what it was supposed to be, but it just didn't pan out. They can continue on full speed ahead if they like, but it'll be right into an iceberg. The AI behavior/decisions need a lot of reworking as discussed as well.


    Speak for yourself man I love the skating in 17.. easily the best it's ever been.. I'll agree with whichever devs said you don't know how to use it because I never have problems with it so clearly it works

    It seems most dont, you are correct
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • people don't L trigger enough, they use hustle when they shouldn't and don't shift their weight (right stick) in accordance with where they want to go.

    that being said, it still needs to be tuned / improved for lateral movement without the puck, better puck pick up and I am still not a fan of the "wrong-way spinsies".

    I still say don't scrap it. I like the momentum factor that wasn't there with the other engine.

    but EA has to get it to work in a 6v6 environment without the sluggishness that comes with being connected to a server "45 ms" away.

    again - seems fairly responsive and almost offline like with 2's or 3's that are in the same region to opponents off the same server as your team... however, it gets wonky when you have people all over North Murica 5v5 or 6v6.

    just my two cents.
  • CKtheProblem
    42 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    people don't L trigger enough, they use hustle when they shouldn't and don't shift their weight (right stick) in accordance with where they want to go.

    that being said, it still needs to be tuned / improved for lateral movement without the puck, better puck pick up and I am still not a fan of the "wrong-way spinsies".

    I still say don't scrap it. I like the momentum factor that wasn't there with the other engine.

    but EA has to get it to work in a 6v6 environment without the sluggishness that comes with being connected to a server "45 ms" away.

    again - seems fairly responsive and almost offline like with 2's or 3's that are in the same region to opponents off the same server as your team... however, it gets wonky when you have people all over North Murica 5v5 or 6v6.

    just my two cents.

    When you shift your weight with the right stick, how do you go about that? Is it LT/L2 + Right stick?
    Post edited by CKtheProblem on
  • I got a real kick out of #10 in this list of rules by Fred Shero:

    XtsnaC2.jpg

    I realize this was a few decades ago, but that part of the game hasn't really changed all that much. Sadly, EA can't seem to teach their AI defenders how to do this, or give humans the ability to do so easily.
  • In regards to Shero's fundamental rules; I would say TPS doesn't pervent us from doing any of those things. I would simply say a lot of players just don't know how to use it properly or refuse to.

    I'd love to see a video of any 5v5 game where not a single player turns their back to the play. Surely if it were that easy, all of the best teams would be doing it. It doesn't even need to be both teams doing it, just your own team not turning your back to the play.

    I'll wait.
  • I got a real kick out of #10 in this list of rules by Fred Shero:

    XtsnaC2.jpg

    I realize this was a few decades ago, but that part of the game hasn't really changed all that much. Sadly, EA can't seem to teach their AI defenders how to do this, or give humans the ability to do so easily.

    Get out of here with that nonsense, a legendary coach has got nothing on what is obviously the best skating engine ever.
  • Bmh245
    905 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    n regards to Shero's fundamental rules; I would say TPS doesn't pervent us from doing any of those things. I would simply say a lot of players just don't know how to use it properly or refuse to.

    I'd love to see a video of any 5v5 game where not a single player turns their back to the play. Surely if it were that easy, all of the best teams would be doing it. It doesn't even need to be both teams doing it, just your own team not turning your back to the play.

    I'll wait.

    No video needed. If a player has his back to the play then he clearly isn't using the vision control button and/or a particular animation/transition temporarily was the cause. Also in some cases TPS might make it a difficult to face the play 100% but it doesn't completely cause my player to have his back to the play.

    Then AI players must not know how to use VC or TPS, because they violate Shero's rule all the time. They constantly turn their back on the play, on offense and defense.

    Here's Hawerchuk, should be making himself available for a pass from Shanahan for the one-timer. Nope, he decides to turn his back on Shanahan instead, I guess hoping someone in the stands might pass him the puck:



    Or watch #22, the defenseman in front of the net, on this play. I ended up getting a goal on a nice one-timer, but I was surely helped along by the fact that #22 -- whose defensive awareness is close to 90 -- never once even looks at the puck, which kind of makes it hard to play defense:



    Here's Redden (94 defensive awareness), similarly, keeping his back turned to the puck for an entire play:



    That whole list of Shero's rules is a great showcase of all that's wrong with this game, and with the AI in particular, since they violate so many of his rules over and over again, especially on defense.

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