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EA Dev, TPS needs to be better or else this game will never reach potential

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  • Showing CPU doing dumb things is equally as dumb
  • SharlonD wrote: »
    Showing CPU doing dumb things is equally as dumb

    Looks like someone can't admit when they're wrong.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    I don't think it matters which skating engine is in play when it comes to the AI. The AI were doing the same things with the old skating system too.

    Pretty much, yeah... When has any EA NHL game had AI that was good? Every year, it's been varying shades of mediocre peppered with B_S to help it compete against humans. It's never changed... Doubt it's ever gonna change. Especially not when a bunch of mooks are still calling for the AI to be nerfed even further.

    Even though this is probably the WORST AI in any NHL game ever! But this is what everyone wanted: "Oh, the AI is too OP! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! waaaaaaaaaaaaah!! We can't skate through everyone anymore!! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah! Waaaaaaaaaaaaah!! Pls nerf the AI, EA!!"

    :neutral:
  • In regards to Shero's fundamental rules; I would say TPS doesn't pervent us from doing any of those things. I would simply say a lot of players just don't know how to use it properly or refuse to.

    I'd love to see a video of any 5v5 game where not a single player turns their back to the play. Surely if it were that easy, all of the best teams would be doing it. It doesn't even need to be both teams doing it, just your own team not turning your back to the play.

    I'll wait.

    No video needed. If a player has his back to the play then he clearly isn't using the vision control button and/or a particular animation/transition temporarily was the cause. Also in some cases TPS might make it a difficult to face the play 100% but it doesn't completely cause my player to have his back to the play.

    Then it shouldn't be hard for you to post a game where this never happens to your club. It's ridiculously easy to record it and upload it, so then do it. Either there are problems in the engine and you can't reliably face the puck or there aren't and you can go an entire game without getting caught looking the wrong direction.

    All I'm asking for is one game. Heck, I'll even be surprised if you can post one period of a 5 player team not turning their back to the play. Many people have provided lots of videos showing problems, so you should post a video of how few problems you have.

    Facing the play is so important that a hall of fame coach put it in the same page as making diagonal passes out of your zone in front of the net and crashing the net for a rebound. This is truly fundamental stuff to playing hockey, but it's easier to have your player do a 360 than point themselves at the puck constantly.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    That whole list of Shero's rules is a great showcase of all that's wrong with this game, and with the AI in particular, since they violate so many of his rules over and over again, especially on defense.

    Sorry then as I didn't mention I was talking about us human players in EASHL and not about the AI.

    I also don't know why someone would talk about how the AI plays or doesn't play in a discussion about TPS. I don't think it matters which skating engine is in play when it comes to the AI. The AI were doing the same things with the old skating system too.

    It absolutely matters which skating engine is in play when it comes to the AI. The AI has been much worse about facing the play since the new-gen game debuted, and they're much more likely to take themselves out of the play with bad weight shifts and pivots. And the worst part is that new-gen TPS has made the consequences of AI mistakes much greater, since there's no way to recover quickly when the AI screws up, which it does constantly. The devs have created a skating system in which AI players are much more accountable for the mistakes they make, but have also adopted an ill-conceived "read and react" AI engine that leads to the AI making innumerable mistakes. It's the combination of TPS and bad AI that has made playing 1v1 an experience of constant frustation.
  • That might be the case and thanks for the explanation but I could care less about the AI and how they react with TPS because I don't play with the AI.

    I only play EASHL so I only care about TPS in relation to my human player.

    I think the majority in this discussion are more concerned with the player they are controlling and not when the AI controls themselves.

    The fact that even the AI has trouble doing basic skating moves at low speeds, and constantly finds itself pivoting the wrong way, or making clunky turns, etc., speaks to the problems with TPS more generally. If this were a smooth, intuitive skating engine, you wouldn't see the AI constantly find itself with its back turned to the play.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    That might be the case and thanks for the explanation but I could care less about the AI and how they react with TPS because I don't play with the AI.

    I only play EASHL so I only care about TPS in relation to my human player.

    I think the majority in this discussion are more concerned with the player they are controlling and not when the AI controls themselves.

    The fact that even the AI has trouble doing basic skating moves at low speeds, and constantly finds itself pivoting the wrong way, or making clunky turns, etc., speaks to the problems with TPS more generally. If this were a smooth, intuitive skating engine, you wouldn't see the AI constantly find itself with its back turned to the play.

    The issue with the ai isn't tps, it's just bad programming. If the problem was tps, then how did old generation of consoles like Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 with NHL 13, 14, 15 and legacy not have any of these issues from the ai?

    I don't know what went wrong from last generation to this generation, but it's clear that it isn't because of tps.
  • megadeth_600
    1437 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    Ryujinsum wrote: »
    SharlonD wrote: »
    Showing CPU doing dumb things is equally as dumb

    Looks like someone can't admit when they're wrong.

    Yup
  • eric57664 wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    That might be the case and thanks for the explanation but I could care less about the AI and how they react with TPS because I don't play with the AI.

    I only play EASHL so I only care about TPS in relation to my human player.

    I think the majority in this discussion are more concerned with the player they are controlling and not when the AI controls themselves.

    The issues the AI has are a symptom of the issues with the skating engine. The AI isn't pressing inputs on a controller to move their players. It gets to just move them how it likes. If even the AI can't do it properly, it speaks to issues in the skating engine that affect humans and AI.

    The fact that even the AI has trouble doing basic skating moves at low speeds, and constantly finds itself pivoting the wrong way, or making clunky turns, etc., speaks to the problems with TPS more generally. If this were a smooth, intuitive skating engine, you wouldn't see the AI constantly find itself with its back turned to the play.

    The issue with the ai isn't tps, it's just bad programming. If the problem was tps, then how did old generation of consoles like Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 with NHL 13, 14, 15 and legacy not have any of these issues from the ai?

    I don't know what went wrong from last generation to this generation, but it's clear that it isn't because of tps.

    You may not have noticed, but many people have been saying that TPS was much better last gen, and since the new gen games have dropped, TPS has gotten noticeably worse. The issues the AI has, that are similar to the issues that many humans have shows problems with the skating engine itself, not just how the AI uses it.
  • eric57664 wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    That might be the case and thanks for the explanation but I could care less about the AI and how they react with TPS because I don't play with the AI.

    I only play EASHL so I only care about TPS in relation to my human player.

    I think the majority in this discussion are more concerned with the player they are controlling and not when the AI controls themselves.

    The issues the AI has are a symptom of the issues with the skating engine. The AI isn't pressing inputs on a controller to move their players. It gets to just move them how it likes. If even the AI can't do it properly, it speaks to issues in the skating engine that affect humans and AI.

    The fact that even the AI has trouble doing basic skating moves at low speeds, and constantly finds itself pivoting the wrong way, or making clunky turns, etc., speaks to the problems with TPS more generally. If this were a smooth, intuitive skating engine, you wouldn't see the AI constantly find itself with its back turned to the play.

    The issue with the ai isn't tps, it's just bad programming. If the problem was tps, then how did old generation of consoles like Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 with NHL 13, 14, 15 and legacy not have any of these issues from the ai?

    I don't know what went wrong from last generation to this generation, but it's clear that it isn't because of tps.

    You may not have noticed, but many people have been saying that TPS was much better last gen, and since the new gen games have dropped, TPS has gotten noticeably worse. The issues the AI has, that are similar to the issues that many humans have shows problems with the skating engine itself, not just how the AI uses it.

    But I wasn't quoting anybody else, only bmh. He said ai facing the wrong way was because of tps, which isn't the case because last generation didn't have this issue. So where am I wrong and what are you trying to say that I didn't already? You totally confused me.
  • eric57664 wrote: »
    eric57664 wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    That might be the case and thanks for the explanation but I could care less about the AI and how they react with TPS because I don't play with the AI.

    I only play EASHL so I only care about TPS in relation to my human player.

    I think the majority in this discussion are more concerned with the player they are controlling and not when the AI controls themselves.

    The issues the AI has are a symptom of the issues with the skating engine. The AI isn't pressing inputs on a controller to move their players. It gets to just move them how it likes. If even the AI can't do it properly, it speaks to issues in the skating engine that affect humans and AI.

    The fact that even the AI has trouble doing basic skating moves at low speeds, and constantly finds itself pivoting the wrong way, or making clunky turns, etc., speaks to the problems with TPS more generally. If this were a smooth, intuitive skating engine, you wouldn't see the AI constantly find itself with its back turned to the play.

    The issue with the ai isn't tps, it's just bad programming. If the problem was tps, then how did old generation of consoles like Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 with NHL 13, 14, 15 and legacy not have any of these issues from the ai?

    I don't know what went wrong from last generation to this generation, but it's clear that it isn't because of tps.

    You may not have noticed, but many people have been saying that TPS was much better last gen, and since the new gen games have dropped, TPS has gotten noticeably worse. The issues the AI has, that are similar to the issues that many humans have shows problems with the skating engine itself, not just how the AI uses it.

    But I wasn't quoting anybody else, only bmh. He said ai facing the wrong way was because of tps, which isn't the case because last generation didn't have this issue. So where am I wrong and what are you trying to say that I didn't already? You totally confused me.

    Its not that complicated, you shouldn't be that confused.

    TPS sucked far less last gen than it does this gen. There were issues, sure, but not like now.

    This gen, TPS causes wonky and clunky skating for humans. The AI has similar issues now that weren't nearly as bad last gen, when TPS was better. For the same skating issues to strike both humans and AI when switching to next gen points more to the version of TPS in the next gen engine than the AI programming.

    More simply - Skating was better last gen, AI and humans had less skating issues. Skating worse this gen, AI and humans have more similar issues. Common denominator is skating engine.
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    Could you ask your online guys about this? Or get one of them to come on for a little bit?

    The Network Performance monitor does a great job predicting how my connection will be for VS games. Usually it's low 30's, and its pretty good. Sometimes better, and the connection feels great.

    In EASHL, my ping is usually 10 or 11 ms, no packet loss, and it's not wildly fluctuating either. It's a pretty stable 10-11 ms, but the game plays terribly. Why is that, and is there anything I can do to improve my experience if this is happening?

    Also, we always match region, yet sometimes I get pings around 40 ms. That's the same ping I've had in the few instances I've played on East Coast servers, so I assume that's what is going on here. Why I'm I playing on east coast servers if I match my region to exact?

    Yes, I will bring this up with them again. I am very curious about this especially with your comparison to versus being better with even a worse ping. I have speculated before asking how other players in the session having worse pings would impact you but it apparently should only effect those individuals. I will dig in again. Thanks for the info.

    Checking back to see if you were able to get any more info on this, or if you could get one of the online guys here to do an AMA. We have tons of connection questions about this game and what we could do to improve it.
  • Bmh245
    905 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    delete this
  • Bmh245
    905 posts Member
    edited December 2016
    eric57664 wrote: »
    You may not have noticed, but many people have been saying that TPS was much better last gen, and since the new gen games have dropped, TPS has gotten noticeably worse. The issues the AI has, that are similar to the issues that many humans have shows problems with the skating engine itself, not just how the AI uses it.

    But I wasn't quoting anybody else, only bmh. He said ai facing the wrong way was because of tps, which isn't the case because last generation didn't have this issue. So where am I wrong and what are you trying to say that I didn't already? You totally confused me.

    Seth has already answered this, but everyone who plays the game recognizes that the issues with things like pivoting, turning at low speeds, unwanted spins, and so on, are much worse in the new-gen game than in the old one, for both AI and humans. Yes, TPS has always had issues with clunkiness, etc., but as I said, those problems have been much more noticeable since the new-gen game debuted.

    Anyway, arguing with you is pointless. Post clips from users, and they get dismissed as user error (even when there is no error to be seen). Post clips from the AI, and they get dismissed as "bad AI programming." So great. We've got a skating engine that only a handful of users on the planet can use without spinning in directions they don't want to go, pivoting clunkily, etc. That's excellent game design.
  • I'm so sick of seeing posts where people say, "I don't care about the AI because I personally only play EASHL." Wow, really? I don't play offline, but that doesn't mean just because I don't play it, it shouldn't have issues looked at and so on.

    Hey guys, I don't play offline modes so no need to put these in the game anymore! I only play EASHL so let's not talk about HUT or Online VS or things like AI behavior!

    People still use all the modes so just because YOU don't play that mode doesn't mean that area of the game should go ignored. The fact that this has to be explained to anyone over 5 years old is sad. Get over yourself.
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