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NHL 18 EASHL

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  • kezz123 wrote: »
    I definitely preferred the old way better. I liked the customization and I liked the grind as well. I enjoyed the reward to time invested being a better skater.

    I don't by the **** excuses about 99 speed or super builds. A) those issues are very exaggerated and B) could be resolved with better game design.

    Speaking of, there were certainly a lot of issues under the old system that could be fixed by better game design. I'm not even speaking of way more work to fix it, just making better choices. Things to mitigate stacking on a few offensive and physical stats and ignoring others. If all stats were in one category and you had to choose between making a speedy skater or a rocket shot, it would have helped. Higher penalty increases to max out a stat would have also done great. Explaining the attributes properly and their effects, as well as making sure every attribute you could customize actually worked would also fix a lot of people's problems.

    On and on people lie about rookie skaters having to be beat up by legend 3 teams like matchmaking didn't exist. (That is a matchmaking issue after all, not a custom attributes/grind issue). If you were a team of legend 3 getting matched up against a bunch of rookies, then you **** and no attribute advantage would help. Unless of course you just made a new team...

    And speaking of that, I really do like the club unlocks. I enjoy the arena stuff, even though the player unlocks bore me. Here is an interesting question though. What's EA's plan next year? We all know things don't get improved two years in a row. How are you all going to feel going from an NHL stadium with flashing lights, beautiful colors, thousands of fans, lightning shooting off in the rafters and smoke blowing out of your stanchions to playing in front of your moms in a dead quiet drab arena and only the same improvements to unlock you had this year.

    I want the grind back, and no, I didn't cheat to unlock legend three in the first week. I played every game and wouldn't unlock l3 until January. During the grind I'd play every night, several games a night. Afterwards, id play less, take nights off, much like I've played all year in NHL 17. That carrot I. The stick certainly made me want to play more.

    I want the customization back, and no, I didn't make a guy with 99 speed. I didn't have a 5'5" grinder or playmaker. I liked that other people did though, because I enjoyed shutting them down. The speed differences made the game more exciting in my opinion.

    As for the survey people keep referencing, it was poorly worded. The specific question relating to this asked if we wanted the game to be more skill based. I answered yes thinking they were talking about random fluky stuff like stick breaks and dumb puck bounces. It never asked if we wanted a class based system. That would have been an emphatic no.

    The mode started as a sports RPG and that wa a brilliant and revolutionary. Now the mode is stale and boring. I ply here and there to get my video game hockey fix, but I could not by NHl 18 at this point and be fine. My whole enthusiasm for the game has waned, poor quality is a large part of that. Lack of interest in the classes is another.

    We agree on so much it always shocks me how deeply we disagree on this point.

    To answer your question in bold....why is it any different to start over with a bland arena vs starting over with a bland stat-less character? Your question answers the very problem a lot of people had with the character progression each year and the major difference is there is no advantage to a customized arena but there is a very noticeable advantage to unlocking stats for a character.

    More importantly, in each case, the issue is the yearly release. Heck, yearly releases is the plague of this game....the core issue to most issues.

    If they took out the yearly release and just patched the game regularly and sold content updates as a way to make profit, the whole unlocking stuff over and over again would become a non-issue. This is the same issue I imagine HUT players must be facing...spend $2000 and 12 months later you start over. Ouch.

    But yea, I still disagree firmly with a system which gives an advantage to users for no specific reason even though I was part of the hardcore group who always ended up getting high cards in 1-2 weeks and had a huge advantage over people for a few more weeks.

    How about getting <special> arena updates in 18 for unlocking all the EASHL ones in 17? Kind of like, here's a few things for unlocking everything in 17. If you didn't, well sorry, these customs aren't available...

    Of course, one could club hop to not miss out, but it wouldn't be the same as your team's arena.
  • sethamphetamines
    330 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    kezz123 wrote: »
    I definitely preferred the old way better. I liked the customization and I liked the grind as well. I enjoyed the reward to time invested being a better skater.

    I don't by the **** excuses about 99 speed or super builds. A) those issues are very exaggerated and B) could be resolved with better game design.

    Speaking of, there were certainly a lot of issues under the old system that could be fixed by better game design. I'm not even speaking of way more work to fix it, just making better choices. Things to mitigate stacking on a few offensive and physical stats and ignoring others. If all stats were in one category and you had to choose between making a speedy skater or a rocket shot, it would have helped. Higher penalty increases to max out a stat would have also done great. Explaining the attributes properly and their effects, as well as making sure every attribute you could customize actually worked would also fix a lot of people's problems.

    On and on people lie about rookie skaters having to be beat up by legend 3 teams like matchmaking didn't exist. (That is a matchmaking issue after all, not a custom attributes/grind issue). If you were a team of legend 3 getting matched up against a bunch of rookies, then you **** and no attribute advantage would help. Unless of course you just made a new team...

    And speaking of that, I really do like the club unlocks. I enjoy the arena stuff, even though the player unlocks bore me. Here is an interesting question though. What's EA's plan next year? We all know things don't get improved two years in a row. How are you all going to feel going from an NHL stadium with flashing lights, beautiful colors, thousands of fans, lightning shooting off in the rafters and smoke blowing out of your stanchions to playing in front of your moms in a dead quiet drab arena and only the same improvements to unlock you had this year.

    I want the grind back, and no, I didn't cheat to unlock legend three in the first week. I played every game and wouldn't unlock l3 until January. During the grind I'd play every night, several games a night. Afterwards, id play less, take nights off, much like I've played all year in NHL 17. That carrot I. The stick certainly made me want to play more.

    I want the customization back, and no, I didn't make a guy with 99 speed. I didn't have a 5'5" grinder or playmaker. I liked that other people did though, because I enjoyed shutting them down. The speed differences made the game more exciting in my opinion.

    As for the survey people keep referencing, it was poorly worded. The specific question relating to this asked if we wanted the game to be more skill based. I answered yes thinking they were talking about random fluky stuff like stick breaks and dumb puck bounces. It never asked if we wanted a class based system. That would have been an emphatic no.

    The mode started as a sports RPG and that wa a brilliant and revolutionary. Now the mode is stale and boring. I ply here and there to get my video game hockey fix, but I could not by NHl 18 at this point and be fine. My whole enthusiasm for the game has waned, poor quality is a large part of that. Lack of interest in the classes is another.

    We agree on so much it always shocks me how deeply we disagree on this point.

    To answer your question in bold....why is it any different to start over with a bland arena vs starting over with a bland stat-less character? Your question answers the very problem a lot of people had with the character progression each year and the major difference is there is no advantage to a customized arena but there is a very noticeable advantage to unlocking stats for a character.

    More importantly, in each case, the issue is the yearly release. Heck, yearly releases is the plague of this game....the core issue to most issues.

    If they took out the yearly release and just patched the game regularly and sold content updates as a way to make profit, the whole unlocking stuff over and over again would become a non-issue. This is the same issue I imagine HUT players must be facing...spend $2000 and 12 months later you start over. Ouch.

    But yea, I still disagree firmly with a system which gives an advantage to users for no specific reason even though I was part of the hardcore group who always ended up getting high cards in 1-2 weeks and had a huge advantage over people for a few more weeks.

    Ha, I feel the same about you and other posters on here. That's why I said it's really about personal opinion. We can have similar ideas about gameplay, but enjoy different aspects of the game.

    I considered what your answer is to my question about arena upgrades when I wrote it. I just don't get the same feeling. Starting with a guy from scratch and building him was just part of the adventure to EASHL. I really don't care much about the player unlocks at all (aside from 1 or 2 celly's I unlocked pretty early, and even then, just barely). But for some reason, I am excited to get the new arena unlocks. I really wouldn't count on them adding a whole lot of new unlocks next year, and having to go from having all those options to that stark arena again to only have the same options I have now just seems annoying to me. More so than having to re-build my skater. I think it's because the arena really is so inconsequential to gameplay, it's like they are just punishing you for no reason, while leveling up attributes was just part of the game. I still play minecraft from time to time. I really don't care for creative, but something about playing survival, where I start with my bare hands and work my way up to diamond everything is really fun to me. Usually by that point I get bored and start a new world, so I can go through that progression again.

    (Side note: Maybe next year, EA can make some of the upgrades a little more meaningful. Like the props that you skate through, maybe would could actually see the players skate through it, instead of it just hanging in the rafters and obstructing the view for half the year, or actually showing the special effects stuff like smoke or lightning instead of the small little glimpse we get of it now)

    Anyways, I absolutely agree about the yearly release thing and have been saying for a while they need to just accept this is a living game with minimal changes each year. We keep getting the same engine tweaked every year with a few new additions. No reason we can't pay a reasonable upgrade fee each September since it's all just building on the previous game. Without having to build more back of the box features that don't work or we don't want, more time could be invested into actual improvements and fixing other features that are broken. If you don't upgrade, you can't play with those that did, like owning only last years game and not being able to play with people who bought the new one.

    I'd be curious to see the sales figures, and if EA has the ability to track, the amount of people that only buy new every other year, or every three. I wonder if everything would balance out, or if the numbers would go even higher if people only had to pay $30 for an annual upgrade instead of $60 for a game that's 10% new.
  • Yah, i love grinding too which is what makes this weirder to me. I am the guy who had a level 80 of every class in WoW. I lost interest when came time to grind raids and end game content...but getting there and doing a bit of dungeons once I was 80 to get decent pre-raid gear was fun to me then i felt the itch to level up something different.

    But somehow, I do not get this itch in NHL. Its not so much that the grind itself bothers me its the fact that I now have to play "catchup" with the other players to be equal to be better as opposed to losing to a team i normally should beat but only because i dont have the speed to compete.

    Custom stats may not matter as much if everyone had the same speed and were unable to customize the speed. The one concession that both opposing parties can make to reach a system that is more fair and less abused. Speed has always been one of the most important stats in all NHL games.

    Keep in mind that if they were to go free to play or something like it and not have a yearly release anymore, your grind would only happen once....so they would need to have another system in place to "grind" stuff. Thats why many games opt to have titles and nameplates and customization items as carrots to grind for.
  • sethamphetamines
    330 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    kezz123 wrote: »
    Yah, i love grinding too which is what makes this weirder to me. I am the guy who had a level 80 of every class in WoW. I lost interest when came time to grind raids and end game content...but getting there and doing a bit of dungeons once I was 80 to get decent pre-raid gear was fun to me then i felt the itch to level up something different.

    But somehow, I do not get this itch in NHL. Its not so much that the grind itself bothers me its the fact that I now have to play "catchup" with the other players to be equal to be better as opposed to losing to a team i normally should beat but only because i dont have the speed to compete.

    Custom stats may not matter as much if everyone had the same speed and were unable to customize the speed. The one concession that both opposing parties can make to reach a system that is more fair and less abused. Speed has always been one of the most important stats in all NHL games.

    Keep in mind that if they were to go free to play or something like it and not have a yearly release anymore, your grind would only happen once....so they would need to have another system in place to "grind" stuff. Thats why many games opt to have titles and nameplates and customization items as carrots to grind for.

    So it seems we also disagree about speed. I think the game is dull with everyone having the same top end speed. I liked playing smarter than the speedsters. It didn't mater that they were faster, because I would try to already be where they wanted to go before they got there, ready to level them with a giant power forward. It was so satisfying playing against some guy with no skill, no size, and a ton of speed who was used to scoring 5 goals a game, and watch them get more and more frustrated as the game went on.

    You are right about grinding being not working with a yearly upgrade model, at least not the way we were used to. But right now we have attributes that affect many things. If it was broken down individually, by skill, it would allow us to add more custom attributes. For example, instead of having stick checking, break it into poke check and stick lift. Then, when the next upgrade comes out, allow players to grind to get more attribute points and build up each skill individually, then one upgrade they revamp boardplay, and now that's a new category we can also put points into, then they fix the stick tie-up mechanic in the slot, now there's a new category we can put points in.

    If they went to the upgrade model, I think I'd be more willing to accept the pre-built classes thing. However, we know that is not going to happen. EA isn't going to turn their backs on $60+ each year for the sake of quality.
  • We dont agree with speed (we had the debate months ago in other threads too) but to be fair, speed didnt use to bother me as much back in nhl10 because everything else worked so much better. This may be a result of compounded issues that are now confusing people like me in thinking speed is evil. The reality, as you mentioned before, is that the attributes need to make a bigger difference. Why bother with a hitting class if you will bounce off the shrimp that put all his points in speed? Why bother with any of it if you will just pivot the wrong way half the time on defense due to poor TPS implementation.

    They also could work on a system where stats in speed reduce hitting or vice versa to an extent. Maybe impose a cap on checking that lowers by 1 point for each 2 points of speed you add. Idea being a smaller faster player's drawback is that he cannot hit or take a hit quite as well as a big slower player. There was the whole issue of weight and height affecting speed / agi / hits also that helped players reach "good at everything" status. As long as the attributes are all worked out in such a way that prevents the creation of a sniper/hitter/speedster/dangler player...id be ok with it. Another issue being the whole curling the puck behind which would mitigate a small fast player's weakness to hit and a curl shot that would mitigate lower shot accuracy and so on so forth. There are so many issues with stats and way to abuse them that it just made the system they had poor.

    But I think you've preached this all along. You want the points back BUT with the agreement that the Dev team would rework them to be much better than they are or have been.
  • Oh well yeah so if EA doesn't drastically change EASHL I've lost my club and there would be no reason for me to buy it as I only play online.

    They're a droppin' like flies.
  • Oh well yeah so if EA doesn't drastically change EASHL I've lost my club and there would be no reason for me to buy it as I only play online.

    They're a droppin' like flies.

    I hear ya. I don't have a club anymore because the rest of them gave up on the game due to a)pre set builds taking the "my player" aspect out of it, and b) lack of games on any given night. I never play the blatant money grab that is HUT(worst mode IMHO), all I play is EASHL and occasionally BAP.

  • kezz123 wrote: »
    We dont agree with speed (we had the debate months ago in other threads too) but to be fair, speed didnt use to bother me as much back in nhl10 because everything else worked so much better. This may be a result of compounded issues that are now confusing people like me in thinking speed is evil. The reality, as you mentioned before, is that the attributes need to make a bigger difference. Why bother with a hitting class if you will bounce off the shrimp that put all his points in speed? Why bother with any of it if you will just pivot the wrong way half the time on defense due to poor TPS implementation.

    They also could work on a system where stats in speed reduce hitting or vice versa to an extent. Maybe impose a cap on checking that lowers by 1 point for each 2 points of speed you add. Idea being a smaller faster player's drawback is that he cannot hit or take a hit quite as well as a big slower player. There was the whole issue of weight and height affecting speed / agi / hits also that helped players reach "good at everything" status. As long as the attributes are all worked out in such a way that prevents the creation of a sniper/hitter/speedster/dangler player...id be ok with it. Another issue being the whole curling the puck behind which would mitigate a small fast player's weakness to hit and a curl shot that would mitigate lower shot accuracy and so on so forth. There are so many issues with stats and way to abuse them that it just made the system they had poor.

    But I think you've preached this all along. You want the points back BUT with the agreement that the Dev team would rework them to be much better than they are or have been.

    Absolutely correct.

    I wanted them to do away with the 3 categories, offense, defense and physical, and instead give one large pool of points. If you want to 99 an attribute, it would cost so much that your player wouldn't have much of a shot, endurance, strength, balance, agility etc...

    Also, have stats like player height/weight be reflected in the stats directly. If you set you player to 5'9" 150 lbs, and make your skater have 95 acceleration, then jack up his size to 6'5" 250, the acceleration attribute would go down to 85 to directly reflect the change his size made.

    By limiting points within all 3 categories, instead of separating them, and having your size information directly reflect in your attributes, I don't think owering other attributes automatically would be needed, but I certainly would have been open to trying it.

    When I see everyone against this say that EA fixed the problem of overpowered builds, I shake my head. They didn't fix the problem, they eliminated a feature. We gave these ideas to fix the custom builds for years, and EA only ever tried attribute caps. Instead of addressing the problem, they just removed a feature in the game To me it's like EA fixing the progression problems in BAGM by just making everyone a static overall that doesn't go up or down year to year.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    I'd love to see the opportunity to set private tournaments / cups / leagues for EASHL with their own set of user preferences. Maybe even using your own servers for hosting, if possible? probably not what with the console thing...
  • I think that fixing the stats to make them work again with customization would require tons of work on the TPS, the stats themselves, the various interactions. its a huge project. Adding custom classes is the easy way to get something somewhat similar with much less work.

    I still want to see the other fixes. lets be honest here....how high on your priority list does custom stats rank up when compared with server issues and tps amongst other things?

    I think the custom classes serve the purpose for now but only in hopes that they are spending huge amounts of time trying to fix other core issues.


  • [/quote]

    Lol so people with no lives get rewarded. The class system as is works fine. The better team and players should get rewarded with wins. Thats why u play.... not to skate faster. People with jobs, kids, and real lives shouldn't have to grind to skate a little faster. [/quote]

    All I got from this post is "whaa whaa whaa I can't play as much as you and your player is better than mine, whaa whaa whaa."

    Don't worry dude, I doubt EA will allow progression-based customization again. But it's for other reasons other than your cries of 'having a life' and not being able to keep up with players that play the game more than you..

  • B_Bunny
    893 posts Moderator
    edited February 2017
    Has anyone played league of legends here? What do you think of a Mastery system being introduced to the EASHL with the preset classes?

    If you don't know what it is, it's a system broken into 3 trees where you can customize your champions stats. Further you go down the tree, the better the stat or ability is - so you are committed. And you only get a certain number of points so you can only fully go down one tree and about halfway down another.

    http://gameinfo.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/game-info/summoners/masteries/

    This is a rather quick cheap copy paste but I can totally see myself being invested in an Offense / Defense / Athletics tree kind of thing.
    PSN: B-Bunny
  • Nobody in a team based game should be at an advantage or disadvantage based on how much you play the game.... besides the simple fact that if you play the game more, you're more likely to be better anyway.
    The classes are fair, plain and simple.
    I wouldn't be opposed if everybody had a base amount of points and you could swing plus 3 or minus 3.
    ...but absolutely no plus 5s or plus 7s just because you play a lot.

  • yeah I dunno it sure seems like there is a lot of people agreeing that career based EASHL was more fun, played more and kept people playing.

    but hey, whatevs.

    EA's call.

    like I said my club's on life support and this was our go to game - for a loooooooooooong time.

    i have people on my club that i grew up with playing this series on consoles when Al Gore was still laying cable for the internets.
  • I have brought this up in the past; one has to ask: exactly what issue are we trying to address here?

    Because almost consistently there are different messages:

    1) "I want a meaningful progression system that allows me to customize my player to my playing style."
    2) "I need more of a reason to play than just the game itself and unlocking meaningless cosmetic items"
    3) "I feel I should be rewarded with strategic advantages for playing better/more than other people"

    I dont think the solution to all these things is to necessarily bring back the old card system. Discuss.
    Dad. Gamer. Rocker. Geek.
  • B_Bunny
    893 posts Moderator
    IceLion68 wrote: »
    I have brought this up in the past; one has to ask: exactly what issue are we trying to address here?

    Because almost consistently there are different messages:

    1) "I want a meaningful progression system that allows me to customize my player to my playing style."
    2) "I need more of a reason to play than just the game itself and unlocking meaningless cosmetic items"
    3) "I feel I should be rewarded with strategic advantages for playing better/more than other people"

    I dont think the solution to all these things is to necessarily bring back the old card system. Discuss.

    Should address all of them. The card system was inherently broken because it gave total and utter freedom with an asinine amount of points to be awarded out.
    PSN: B-Bunny
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