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The true problem with this game.

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  • KoryDub wrote: »
    zingaa1 wrote: »
    there are some god awful players that think they're great, they ruin the game almost as much

    Absolutely, 100% correct.

    These same god awful players generate discussions about how things are 'broken' and you just shake your head.

    While I agree with you in principal but how much of that is EAs own fault? They Created this culture of I'm a God at NHL because they REWARD garbage play (I can take control of Joe Schmo aging 4th liner and dangle and deke my way around the ice like Datsyuk, I can hold RS to either side and glide along the boards and become invincible) and PUNISH proper Hockey plays (3min cycle in O zone, generating 7 SOG but getting stoned time and again) I had an opponent One Touch Deke their way up the ice using Rob Scuderi (was with LA at the time), you add to that that as I poked checked him (mind you I am skating backwards as Scuderi is skating directly in front of me), my stick Physically PASSED THROUGH his stick and the puck BUT made CONTACT WITH Scuderi's skates causing a tripping penalty. Now in this kids mind...he thinks I suck when in Reality that wouldn't happen in real life...here kid, use this example to inflate your head a little more

    How else do you explain just out right DOMINATING your opponent in every category (4:1 SOG, 4:1 TOA, 5:0 PP chances, 8:1 Face offs) but losing because of some exploit. All these kids care about is "I got the Dub and you lost...you suck get over it" so now their heads get inflated because they mastered the go to exploit. They don't care they got embarrassed in the other categories
  • I'm not at all goofing on beginners, we've all been there, it's the players that play everyday and are confused their the next coming of Wayne Gretzky, yet they don't know right from left.
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    How else do you explain just out right DOMINATING your opponent in every category (4:1 SOG, 4:1 TOA, 5:0 PP chances, 8:1 Face offs) but losing because of some exploit.

    Your opponent played the game better than you, plain and simple.

    He didn't play better hockey than you - he played the game better than you.

    If people made this distinction more often, they'd likely have more fun with this game.

    I'm not defending some of the bugs and glitches we see day to day around here.

    I'm saying that - at the end of the day - this is a videogame and there are people out there who excel at them better than you.

    This is a very general statement that is 100% spot on. EA claims to strive for "realism" in this game yet the results fail to prove anything close to that claim.
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    How else do you explain just out right DOMINATING your opponent in every category (4:1 SOG, 4:1 TOA, 5:0 PP chances, 8:1 Face offs) but losing because of some exploit.

    Your opponent played the game better than you, plain and simple.

    He didn't play better hockey than you - he played the game better than you.

    If people made this distinction more often, they'd likely have more fun with this game.

    I'm not defending some of the bugs and glitches we see day to day around here.

    I'm saying that - at the end of the day - this is a videogame and there are people out there who excel at them better than you.

    Fair enough and I can agree with you, so why make the claim of REALISM if that's not how the "game" gets played. It's called NHL (a Hockey video game), shouldn't playing HOCKEY be the sole focus of these Developers? I purchased a EA NHL Hockey game to play HOCKEY not some loose adaptation of it. IF I wanted a loose adaptation of a Hockey game I would go play NHL HITZ or Mutant League Hockey....these games don't claim to be a REALISTIC version of the game like the EA NHL series has done
  • joefitz22 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    How else do you explain just out right DOMINATING your opponent in every category (4:1 SOG, 4:1 TOA, 5:0 PP chances, 8:1 Face offs) but losing because of some exploit.

    Your opponent played the game better than you, plain and simple.

    He didn't play better hockey than you - he played the game better than you.

    If people made this distinction more often, they'd likely have more fun with this game.

    I'm not defending some of the bugs and glitches we see day to day around here.

    I'm saying that - at the end of the day - this is a videogame and there are people out there who excel at them better than you.

    Fair enough and I can agree with you, so why make the claim of REALISM if that's not how the "game" gets played. It's called NHL (a Hockey video game), shouldn't playing HOCKEY be the sole focus of these Developers? I purchased a EA NHL Hockey game to play HOCKEY not some loose adaptation of it. IF I wanted a loose adaptation of a Hockey game I would go play NHL HITZ or Mutant League Hockey....these games don't claim to be a REALISTIC version of the game like the EA NHL series has done

    It's a video game bud. At some point, and basically every game you play, video game skill is going to be a factor in the outcome and that is never going to change.

    Learn to accept that or just keep telling yourself it is FAKE and doesn't mean anything. ;)
  • joefitz22 wrote: »
    EVerk81 wrote: »
    I don't see there being any real 'true' problem with this game....just a multitude of annoyances. Yes, trolls and cheesers don't make for a very online experience but this is beyond EA's control. Even with a game that runs near-perfect with the majority of the fan base happy you would still have players that find a way to exploit things.

    How is this Beyond EAs control?? They CAN control it IF THEY WANTED TO. PUNISH those that abuse Exploits and Cheese. IF the Cheese and Exploits ARE NOT THERE TO BEGIN WITH, they won't be there at their disposal to be used and abused in the first place, correct?? PREVENTATIVE Maintenance

    Beyond EA's control. They aren't here to monitor who does what online. You acknowledge the T&S when you log on the first time, clearly states that online experience may vary. EA trying to babysit all the online trolls isn't something they're going to do..

  • EVerk81 wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    EVerk81 wrote: »
    I don't see there being any real 'true' problem with this game....just a multitude of annoyances. Yes, trolls and cheesers don't make for a very online experience but this is beyond EA's control. Even with a game that runs near-perfect with the majority of the fan base happy you would still have players that find a way to exploit things.

    How is this Beyond EAs control?? They CAN control it IF THEY WANTED TO. PUNISH those that abuse Exploits and Cheese. IF the Cheese and Exploits ARE NOT THERE TO BEGIN WITH, they won't be there at their disposal to be used and abused in the first place, correct?? PREVENTATIVE Maintenance

    Beyond EA's control. They aren't here to monitor who does what online. You acknowledge the T&S when you log on the first time, clearly states that online experience may vary. EA trying to babysit all the online trolls isn't something they're going to do..

    Mate who said anything about needing to babysit? I am simply suggesting to NOT EVEN PROGRAM that garbage into the game in the first place...if it's not there to be used from release day/day 1 then it won't be there to be used and abused on day 201, now will it??

    Example, let's go back a few years....remember how a sure fire way to stop a breakaway was to (as you're chasing the puck carrier from behind), initiate the Fight sequence...the trailing player would reach his arm out, grab the puck carriers shoulder and spin him around and then the 2 would stand there and do the glove wiggle....not only was the Breakaway Halted but now the puck carrier would also get a 2min minor for his troubles...if that stupid Exploit wasn't in the game to begin with, there would be no need to address that issue when brought up by people on this forum....you call it babysitting the trolls...I see it as more: Preventative Maintenance and or Quality Assurance

    You mean to tell me that they can't program, either during production or with a patch after release an attachment that penalizes a person (2min delay of game) for bulldozing a player after the whistle? You mean to tell me that they can't patch something into the game that gets rid of the invincibility bubble that surrounds the puck carrier when they are holding the RS to either side??
  • joefitz22
    643 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    How else do you explain just out right DOMINATING your opponent in every category (4:1 SOG, 4:1 TOA, 5:0 PP chances, 8:1 Face offs) but losing because of some exploit.

    Your opponent played the game better than you, plain and simple.

    He didn't play better hockey than you - he played the game better than you.

    If people made this distinction more often, they'd likely have more fun with this game.

    I'm not defending some of the bugs and glitches we see day to day around here.

    I'm saying that - at the end of the day - this is a videogame and there are people out there who excel at them better than you.

    Fair enough and I can agree with you, so why make the claim of REALISM if that's not how the "game" gets played. It's called NHL (a Hockey video game), shouldn't playing HOCKEY be the sole focus of these Developers? I purchased a EA NHL Hockey game to play HOCKEY not some loose adaptation of it. IF I wanted a loose adaptation of a Hockey game I would go play NHL HITZ or Mutant League Hockey....these games don't claim to be a REALISTIC version of the game like the EA NHL series has done

    It's a video game bud. At some point, and basically every game you play, video game skill is going to be a factor in the outcome and that is never going to change.

    Learn to accept that or just keep telling yourself it is FAKE and doesn't mean anything. ;)

    Aye that be true mate but just because it is FAKE doesn't mean it can't be accurately portrayed.
    Off the beaten subject but take Wax Fruit for example. It is FAKE by definition (cause it's not edible) but that doesn't stop the makers from not portraying this Wax fruit as anything but Realistic.
    movies are FAKE but when you get a REAL LIFE person or subject (say Saving Private Ryan) the actors, directors, producers, etc go out of their way to make it a ACCURATE Portrayal. Steven Spielberg made Tom Hanks and the other actors go through a real life Military Boot Camp so the actors reactions to stuff blowing up around them when they stormed the Beach was REAL and Genuine (just like the real soldiers would have felt when they actually did it)
  • KoryDub wrote: »
    .....
    giphy.gif



    LOL Well Played! :)
  • joefitz22 wrote: »
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    How else do you explain just out right DOMINATING your opponent in every category (4:1 SOG, 4:1 TOA, 5:0 PP chances, 8:1 Face offs) but losing because of some exploit.

    Your opponent played the game better than you, plain and simple.

    He didn't play better hockey than you - he played the game better than you.

    If people made this distinction more often, they'd likely have more fun with this game.

    I'm not defending some of the bugs and glitches we see day to day around here.

    I'm saying that - at the end of the day - this is a videogame and there are people out there who excel at them better than you.

    Fair enough and I can agree with you, so why make the claim of REALISM if that's not how the "game" gets played. It's called NHL (a Hockey video game), shouldn't playing HOCKEY be the sole focus of these Developers? I purchased a EA NHL Hockey game to play HOCKEY not some loose adaptation of it. IF I wanted a loose adaptation of a Hockey game I would go play NHL HITZ or Mutant League Hockey....these games don't claim to be a REALISTIC version of the game like the EA NHL series has done

    It's a video game bud. At some point, and basically every game you play, video game skill is going to be a factor in the outcome and that is never going to change.

    Learn to accept that or just keep telling yourself it is FAKE and doesn't mean anything. ;)

    Aye that be true mate but just because it is FAKE doesn't mean it can't be accurately portrayed.
    Off the beaten subject but take Wax Fruit for example. It is FAKE by definition (cause it's not edible) but that doesn't stop the makers from not portraying this Wax fruit as anything but Realistic.
    movies are FAKE but when you get a REAL LIFE person or subject (say Saving Private Ryan) the actors, directors, producers, etc go out of their way to make it a ACCURATE Portrayal. Steven Spielberg made Tom Hanks and the other actors go through a real life Military Boot Camp so the actors reactions to stuff blowing up around them when they stormed the Beach was REAL and Genuine (just like the real soldiers would have felt when they actually did it)

    This is an interesting point, but keep in mind that film has had well over 100 years to be able to so accurately simulate reality. EA started making hockey simulations in 1991/92. That's a little over 25 years and the experience is much, much closer to simulating actual hockey than it was in the original NHL Hockey or even in NHL 08 for that matter. It has to grow in increments. There are some major issues with this game. For offline play, the friendly AI remains stupid, and unadaptable to player actions, while the opposition AI relies too much on "cheats" to create difficulty instead of skill and creativity. Which makes for at times, a more frustrating than fun game experience. Same with the GM AI, which desperately needs an upgrade to be able to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of its own rosters, and make trades, signings and draft picks accordingly.

    I don't have a problem with TPS like a lot of players on this forum. I think, that while it has some failings that come with not being able to move torso independently, it is the best representation of actual skating ever developed for a platform like this and certainly better than some of the versions you hear people clamoring to return to. That's all subjective though. I'm not right and others wrong, we just disagree.

    This game makes me RAGE with frustration at how stupid it can play sometimes, but I have also gotten hours of pure enjoyment from it. Creating over thirty custom teams, many of which are filled with created players for my custom league/franchise mode has been a blast (and will hopefully be improved upon in NHL 18. There is a "only online matters" mindset on these forums that whines about presentation, but a lot of us do care about that, and want it to be a focus. I like that the fans in the stands look and react in more realistic ways. It improves my experience greatly) so I try to take my frustrations and voice them to the devs in hopes that they will see eye to eye with me on some of those things and put time/resources towards improving them.

    Expecting the game to be a 100% perfect simulation of real hockey is absurd, and as much as I hate agreeing with Kory, he's right that when you continually outshoot and out attack time other players and lose, it's because they play then game better. They don't have thirty shots because they are dedicating their time to setting up those six or seven shots that they know will produce goals. Is this "cheese"? Maybe, but it's a reality of pretty much every video game that there will be exploits in the code somewhere. As soon as the devs close some holes it opens up others. It's a game of Whack-a-Mole. If I buy NHL 18 and it's better than 17, it will be worth it. If it's substantially better it will be REALLY worth it. If it's about the same or worse, I will probably wait 3 to 5 years again before buying another version. That, and give my opinion here is all I can do. I think we do better to keep our expectations somewhat realistic though, as a truly accurate to life hockey simulation is most likely decades away, if it is ever really possible at all (and if it was that accurate, how hard would it be?). That's my two cents.
  • joefitz22
    643 posts Member
    edited February 2017
    DeejNYLV wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    KoryDub wrote: »
    joefitz22 wrote: »
    How else do you explain just out right DOMINATING your opponent in every category (4:1 SOG, 4:1 TOA, 5:0 PP chances, 8:1 Face offs) but losing because of some exploit.

    Your opponent played the game better than you, plain and simple.

    He didn't play better hockey than you - he played the game better than you.

    If people made this distinction more often, they'd likely have more fun with this game.

    I'm not defending some of the bugs and glitches we see day to day around here.

    I'm saying that - at the end of the day - this is a videogame and there are people out there who excel at them better than you.

    Fair enough and I can agree with you, so why make the claim of REALISM if that's not how the "game" gets played. It's called NHL (a Hockey video game), shouldn't playing HOCKEY be the sole focus of these Developers? I purchased a EA NHL Hockey game to play HOCKEY not some loose adaptation of it. IF I wanted a loose adaptation of a Hockey game I would go play NHL HITZ or Mutant League Hockey....these games don't claim to be a REALISTIC version of the game like the EA NHL series has done

    It's a video game bud. At some point, and basically every game you play, video game skill is going to be a factor in the outcome and that is never going to change.

    Learn to accept that or just keep telling yourself it is FAKE and doesn't mean anything. ;)

    Aye that be true mate but just because it is FAKE doesn't mean it can't be accurately portrayed.
    Off the beaten subject but take Wax Fruit for example. It is FAKE by definition (cause it's not edible) but that doesn't stop the makers from not portraying this Wax fruit as anything but Realistic.
    movies are FAKE but when you get a REAL LIFE person or subject (say Saving Private Ryan) the actors, directors, producers, etc go out of their way to make it a ACCURATE Portrayal. Steven Spielberg made Tom Hanks and the other actors go through a real life Military Boot Camp so the actors reactions to stuff blowing up around them when they stormed the Beach was REAL and Genuine (just like the real soldiers would have felt when they actually did it)

    This is an interesting point, but keep in mind that film has had well over 100 years to be able to so accurately simulate reality. EA started making hockey simulations in 1991/92. That's a little over 25 years and the experience is much, much closer to simulating actual hockey than it was in the original NHL Hockey or even in NHL 08 for that matter. It has to grow in increments. There are some major issues with this game. For offline play, the friendly AI remains stupid, and unadaptable to player actions, while the opposition AI relies too much on "cheats" to create difficulty instead of skill and creativity. Which makes for at times, a more frustrating than fun game experience. Same with the GM AI, which desperately needs an upgrade to be able to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of its own rosters, and make trades, signings and draft picks accordingly.

    I don't have a problem with TPS like a lot of players on this forum. I think, that while it has some failings that come with not being able to move torso independently, it is the best representation of actual skating ever developed for a platform like this and certainly better than some of the versions you hear people clamoring to return to. That's all subjective though. I'm not right and others wrong, we just disagree.

    This game makes me RAGE with frustration at how stupid it can play sometimes, but I have also gotten hours of pure enjoyment from it. Creating over thirty custom teams, many of which are filled with created players for my custom league/franchise mode has been a blast (and will hopefully be improved upon in NHL 18. There is a "only online matters" mindset on these forums that whines about presentation, but a lot of us do care about that, and want it to be a focus. I like that the fans in the stands look and react in more realistic ways. It improves my experience greatly) so I try to take my frustrations and voice them to the devs in hopes that they will see eye to eye with me on some of those things and put time/resources towards improving them.

    Expecting the game to be a 100% perfect simulation of real hockey is absurd, and as much as I hate agreeing with Kory, he's right that when you continually outshoot and out attack time other players and lose, it's because they play then game better. They don't have thirty shots because they are dedicating their time to setting up those six or seven shots that they know will produce goals. Is this "cheese"? Maybe, but it's a reality of pretty much every video game that there will be exploits in the code somewhere. As soon as the devs close some holes it opens up others. It's a game of Whack-a-Mole. If I buy NHL 18 and it's better than 17, it will be worth it. If it's substantially better it will be REALLY worth it. If it's about the same or worse, I will probably wait 3 to 5 years again before buying another version. That, and give my opinion here is all I can do. I think we do better to keep our expectations somewhat realistic though, as a truly accurate to life hockey simulation is most likely decades away, if it is ever really possible at all (and if it was that accurate, how hard would it be?). That's my two cents.

    Excellent Points mate, well said! Do I honestly believe that this game can be 100% True to life...F no...lol but it's the fact that year in and year out the community complains about the same exact things and year in and year out NOTHING gets fixed. The FLUFF (Ovi's yellow laces, NHL scrub player faces, Helmets popping off, Glass breaking, Hot dog vendors, Mascots) gets UPDATED,new FLUFF gets added year in and year out while the Core game play remains buggy and glitchy as all hell.
    I haven't played an NBA game since NBA LIVE '95 (Genesis) but I guaran damn tee if I were to play the latest NBK2k ('17??) online vs someone, the Game Mechanics (itself) wouldn't let me walk up to half court and hit half court shots (46-47' feet from Basket) once or twice (within that single game) LET ALONE allow me to do it 5,6,7x (within that single game) with accuracy but yet for years in the EA NHL series, cut across the blue line (skating parallel with it...from blue line to goal line is 60') and throw the puck cross grain and it's dead accurate. Is it really asking to much from these Devs to fix that and make it more Accurately reflect it's REAL LIFE counterpart??
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