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TPS is very good. Don't change it EA, just iron out the kinks

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  • Beauty of a post @nickythewop
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    Here are a few of my examples of what's wrong with the skating engine right now:

    1. Puck pickups are not intuitive. Take a player without the puck and have them skate directly at a wall and then turn at the last second to avoid hitting the wall. This is pretty easy with just about any skater. Then try that same action, but have the puck sitting a foot or two away from the boards. You're going to hit the wall every time if you try to skate normally through the puck as you pick it up. Instead, you need to perform the action well before you actually want your player to turn so that the game will launch the "seamless" animation to avoid the boards. The biggest issue here is chasing down a dump-in as a defender with a forward on your back. You either end up running into the boards a bit and losing speed, or telegraphing the direction you'r planning to go and allowing that forward to get a jump on where you're going. In either case, you're giving a big benefit to the forecheckers because they have much more responsive controls.

    2. Defending a 1v1 is extremely difficult to maintain gap control on a forward using lateral movement and speed changes. Even just moving left and right, forwards have much more responsive controls and are able to take advantage of that to pull defenders out of position. Have a forward glide or slow down and cut in either direction, and you'll probably only be able to choose between matching their speed or matching their lateral movement while facing up the ice. You need to be able to slow down while moving laterally and facing up ice as a defender. This simply doesn't exist right now.

    3. Vision control. Holy ****, just give me a button to face the puck that follows the same logic that existed in NHL 12 and slows me down automatically any time it's necessary to complete whatever action the game needs to do to face the puck. It's really that simple. Start there and make something new when you can actually be sure that it works just as well as it used to. Right now, vision control only guarantees that you're within 180 degrees of the puck, so you could be completely perpendicular to the play and that's working as intended in EA's mind. This should be more like 90 degrees instead.

    4. Faceoff rushes/Escape turns. Grabbing a puck when stopped or very slow is far more difficult than it should be to evade an opponent. This is partially related to puck pickups, but once you have the puck at a standstill, you take far to long to turn or take your first stride. This is most evident when winning a faceoff to your defender, only to have a forward immediately bearing down on you because they can accelerate so fast at the faceoff, and dekeing means you'll take even longer to build any speed. It's also noticeable when picking up a loose puck or rebound in front of the net as a forward or defender. You're so vulnerable in this position, that it's not uncommon to have multiple possession changes over a couple seconds because neither team is able to make a quick move away from the pressure. Skaters shouldn't be making huge pivots and slow starts, and should be much more able to get the puck away from pressure.

    Do those things and I might actually see my club buy the game this year. I doubt that will happen though, so y'all have fun with whatever crap EA decides to shovel in September.

    +100 to the bold part!!!

    Seriously though, how many times in a game do you see a loose puck, and the next 20-30 seconds (real time) happens like this:

    Loose puck
    Puck pickup pulls you towards the opposite team
    BOOF!!
    Loose puck
    BOOF!!
    BOOF!!
    Skater moves in slow-motion to recover loose puck
    POKE!!
    Skater from same team recovers puck.
    BOOF!!
    BOOF!!
    Puck pickup pulls you into your own team (neither player gets puck)
    Other team gets puck...

    See where I'm going with this?

    Does that bv115h!t even happen in a real game anywhere near that often and consistently??

    And people clamour for a "sim" game. Making the game "sim" is just going to make this even worse. ;)

    No, selective sim is making it worse. The logic behind what is considered to be "sim" is severely lacking.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    Santini3 wrote: »
    What theeee? How have i never seen this? Any video examples?

    I've never seen it quite like the example above but I have on multiple occasions seen my player move in a forward direction with no input on my controller at all. Very frequently, stretch passes along the boards my player will go in to a skating animation outside of my control and put me offside. It's trash.

    It happens on defense as well. When you're backskating with a defenseman, your player will sometimes just jump forward for no reason:



    You can see I'm not doing anything there, because the player's skates don't move. The game just catapults him forward.

    yes that really is absurd haha, I don't recall that happening to me too often but there are many things that do happen often. Something I see frequently is when players get locked in some sort of frozen state for a long span of time, In EASHL when a player gets locked where a user can't even get him out of it, we need to shoot the puck in to the bench.

    This is off topic but something that happens to me frequently and only in NHL is when my controller is about to die (but not actually dead yet) I plug in the USB cord and then my EASHL skater becomes uncontrollable, my inputs do absolutely nothing, I can pause the game, navigate in the in-game menu but can't control my skater. During this time everything else throughout the Xbox OS can be utilized but nothing in NHL. Has this ever happened to anyone ?
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member

    This is off topic but something that happens to me frequently and only in NHL is when my controller is about to die (but not actually dead yet) I plug in the USB cord and then my EASHL skater becomes uncontrollable, my inputs do absolutely nothing, I can pause the game, navigate in the in-game menu but can't control my skater. During this time everything else throughout the Xbox OS can be utilized but nothing in NHL. Has this ever happened to anyone ?

    It's happened to me a few times. I think it's an issue with the Xbox OS temporarily being "prioritizing" control of the front end rather than the application. Usually I turn off the controller and turn it back on and everything's fine.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »

    This is off topic but something that happens to me frequently and only in NHL is when my controller is about to die (but not actually dead yet) I plug in the USB cord and then my EASHL skater becomes uncontrollable, my inputs do absolutely nothing, I can pause the game, navigate in the in-game menu but can't control my skater. During this time everything else throughout the Xbox OS can be utilized but nothing in NHL. Has this ever happened to anyone ?

    It's happened to me a few times. I think it's an issue with the Xbox OS temporarily being "prioritizing" control of the front end rather than the application. Usually I turn off the controller and turn it back on and everything's fine.

    Yeah I try that too, I take the battery pack out and out it back in, refresh the xbox page etc. Nothing works when it happens, I always have to quit because if I don't my player just sits there not moving which messes my team up.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    Anyway back on topic about TPS

    Yep, TPS is so good that NHL 09/10/11/12 were more popular than NHL 13/14/15/16/17.

    Hmmmm, what happened in NHL 13? I will have to think on this and get back to you. :wink:

  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    Anyway back on topic about TPS

    Yep, TPS is so good that NHL 09/10/11/12 were more popular than NHL 13/14/15/16/17.

    Hmmmm, what happened in NHL 13? I will have to think on this and get back to you. :wink:
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Anyway back on topic about TPS

    Yep, TPS is so good that NHL 09/10/11/12 were more popular than NHL 13/14/15/16/17.

    Hmmmm, what happened in NHL 13? I will have to think on this and get back to you. :wink:

    What happened was Rammer. TPS is secondary.
  • too many vacations to Russia that didn't end with rights to the KHL.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    too many vacations to Russia that didn't end with rights to the KHL.

    Should probably speak to Trump. I hear he has really good contacts in Russia. :p
  • OSupahstarO
    56 posts Member
    edited April 2017
    The issue I have with the skating engine is that while in possession of the puck, you have two methods of controlling the direction of your player, while without the puck you only have one. The right stick is an extremely valuable tool for orienting your player because it forces the engine to keep track of your stick location while making skating movements.

    When you do not have the puck, your input is guided only by the left stick. There is no secondary input that limits your player to a certain set of animations for a given situation. You never see the crazy spins and turns when you have the puck and are using the right stick. It's only when a single input is given that you begin to see the odd things.

    I think that full control of of the stick at all times definitely would help the engine figure out which animations should be used in which situations when skating. I'm hoping that with an introduction of a defensive skill stick, we gain that 100% of the time stick control. (And I'd also like to see it be in the game when on offense but without the puck as well).

    It doesn't make sense that the only time you can control your stick is when you have the puck. Bringing in 100% stick control in the game would allow for players to show a target for a pass, place sticks in certain positions for tips/deflections, eliminate the need for automated puck pickups (because the player already can chose their direction prior to receiving the pass) and a whole lot of other things in addition to aiding the skating system.
  • The issue I have with the skating engine is that while in possession of the puck, you have two methods of controlling the direction of your player, while without the puck you only have one. The right stick is an extremely valuable tool for orienting your player because it forces the engine to keep track of your stick location while making skating movements.

    When you do not have the puck, your input is guided only by the left stick. There is no secondary input that limits your player to a certain set of animations for a given situation. You never see the crazy spins and turns when you have the puck and are using the right stick. It's only when a single input is given that you begin to see the odd things.

    I think that full control of of the stick at all times definitely would help the engine figure out which animations should be used in which situations when skating. I'm hoping that with an introduction of a defensive skill stick, we gain that 100% of the time stick control. (And I'd also like to see it be in the game when on offense but without the puck as well).

    It doesn't make sense that the only time you can control your stick is when you have the puck. Bringing in 100% stick control in the game would allow for players to show a target for a pass, place sticks in certain positions for tips/deflections, eliminate the need for automated puck pickups (because the player already can chose their direction prior to receiving the pass) and a whole lot of other things in addition to aiding the skating system.

    Love it
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    too many vacations to Russia that didn't end with rights to the KHL.

    Should probably speak to Trump. I hear he has really good contacts in Russia. :p

    tenor.gif
  • I like the system. You just have to get familiar with it :p It can do without the autoskate for puck pickups though.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    too many vacations to Russia that didn't end with rights to the KHL.

    Should probably speak to Trump. I hear he has really good contacts in Russia. :p

    tenor.gif

    Yes he is!! Trump that is.. and he is having a blast doing it.

  • sethamphetamines
    330 posts Member
    edited May 2017
    I get the sense that people who like TPS think of "TPS" as the idea of having momentum factor into the skating engine, and people who hate TPS think of "TPS" as specifically this engine and the way it's implemented in the game. I don't know of anyone who truly thinks the game is better without momentum factoring into your turning, your speed, direction changes, etc... It's just the way TPS is made now, it is terribly clunky, often making wrong decisions and is in need of a lot of changes. I think most of us are in agreement, just using terms differently. The big difference is the amount of tweaking we think is needed, and I bet that is mostly based on connection quality.

    Here is my issue with the specific engine. It is a complex animation system (especially the iteration on last gen) where your player will do all kinds of fancy strides based on your inputs. It seems that on this gen, instead of the skating engine making your players legs react to your input, you have to make you input match up to what the animations are predicting you do. Otherwise, all kinds of frustration ensues.

    Post edited by sethamphetamines on
  • I get the sense that people who like TPS think of TPS as the idea of having momentum factor into the skating engine, and people who hate TPS think if it as specifically this engine and the way it's implemented in the game. I don't know of anyone who truly thinks the game is better without momentum factoring into your turning, your speed, direction changes, etc... It's just the way TPS is made now, it is terribly clunky, often making wrong decisions and is in need of a lot of changes. I think most of us are in agreement, just using terms differently. The big difference is the amount of tweaking we think is needed, and I bet that is mostly based on connection quality.

    Here is my issue with the specific engine. It is a complex animation system (especially the iteration on last gen) where your player will do all kinds of fancy strides based on your inputs. It seems more so on this gen, instead of the skating engine make your players legs react to your input, you have to make you input match up to what the animations are predicting you do. Otherwise, you all kinds off frustration ensues.

    yep.
  • Santini3
    482 posts Member
    SaveUs2K wrote: »
    I get the sense that people who like TPS think of "TPS" as the idea of having momentum factor into the skating engine, and people who hate TPS think of "TPS" as specifically this engine and the way it's implemented in the game. I don't know of anyone who truly thinks the game is better without momentum factoring into your turning, your speed, direction changes, etc... It's just the way TPS is made now, it is terribly clunky, often making wrong decisions and is in need of a lot of changes. I think most of us are in agreement, just using terms differently. The big difference is the amount of tweaking we think is needed, and I bet that is mostly based on connection quality.

    Here is my issue with the specific engine. It is a complex animation system (especially the iteration on last gen) where your player will do all kinds of fancy strides based on your inputs. It seems more so on this gen, instead of the skating engine make your players legs react to your input, you have to make you input match up to what the animations are predicting you do. Otherwise, you get all kinds off frustration ensues.

    This is exactly what people who hate TPS are saying. Unfortunately, the bubble blowers think we want floaty skating back because critically thinking is hard and non-sequiturs are easy. This forum has a substantial lack of logic skills and reading comprehension.

    Pretty ironic considering your use of generalization and hyperbole in this post. The reason some of us who don't think TPS is that bad say that some of the detractors want floaty skating back is because they literally say they want skating to be how it was in NHL09-12 which was... guess what... floaty, non momentum based skating.

    So please, get off your high horse and don't think too "critically" or you might hurt yourself.
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