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Message to the developers

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  • MetalMilitia623
    1464 posts Member
    edited October 2017
    The lag thing goes to what is easiest to do. It's much easier to just say (insert evil corporation here) caused the problem. Instead of taking the time and effort to investigate any and all possible causes on your end.

    We were having internet problems one day, isp came out checked the signal coming into the house and it was weak. Replaced outdoor cables coming from the box and problems went away.

    Problem is no one wants to take the time or effort to investigate these things and would rather ea or whoever just fix it.

    I play pubg with a guy from Trinidad. Sometimes he's lagging out other times he isn't. From our understanding his isp is not great for pubg because it takes a weird route. And it's not like the servers are the issue because we've tried the Brazilian and us servers. It's just a routing issue because he lives on a little island.

    The devs may be able to solve it with a better routing algorithm but it's more just a poor location and tough to play games. However he has no issues playing other games.
  • I would like to see much more consistency between games when it comes to input delay or lag. Some games feel quick and responsive, some games feel sluggish and ai behavior is a little more wonky in regards to puck pickups or moving between animations when skating.

    The most difficult and frustrating games ive played this year is where there is a delay and my opponent plays a skill zone. The ai defenders make it very challenging to cycle when you have no lag, but add in a half a second or full second delay and they are constantly taking the puck off of you.

    My other issue when there is a delay is when switching to another player. Theres so many times where i hit the switch player button, pause a second, then i get my next player who often isnt the one i wanted. Holding the switch player button brings you to your last player back but it takes to long. Sometimes two to three seconds which prevents me from cutting off a rush.

    Another unrelated gripe is goalies playing hungry hungry hippo when trying to cover a puck. I dont know what the perimeters are for a cover but my goalie will go to cover, miss twice, and then give up an easy goal because he now way out of the goal. And when is it going to be an automatic penalty when an opponent smashes into my goalie before the whistle?
  • sethamphetamines
    330 posts Member
    edited October 2017
    The lag thing goes to what is easiest to do. It's much easier to just say (insert evil corporation here) caused the problem. Instead of taking the time and effort to investigate any and all possible causes on your end.

    We were having internet problems one day, isp came out checked the signal coming into the house and it was weak. Replaced outdoor cables coming from the box and problems went away.

    Problem is no one wants to take the time or effort to investigate these things and would rather ea or whoever just fix it.

    I play pubg with a guy from Trinidad. Sometimes he's lagging out other times he isn't. From our understanding his isp is not great for pubg because it takes a weird route. And it's not like the servers are the issue because we've tried the Brazilian and us servers. It's just a routing issue because he lives on a little island.

    The devs may be able to solve it with a better routing algorithm but it's more just a poor location and tough to play games. However he has no issues playing other games.

    That's terribly insulting, because many people who have lag issues have tried everything. I was at my wit's end.
    • Wired Console - Check
    • Live a couple hours from West Coast server - Check
    • Undergo 10 minute process everytime I want to play (shutdown anything using internet, turn on QOS, reset modem/router/xbox - Check
    • Replace cable company's combo modem/router - Check
    • Speed test after speed test - Check
    • Play at all different times of day - Check
    • Buy signal amplifier for cable line - Check
    • Call cable company to come out and look at connection - Check
    • Remove signal amplifier for cable line - Check
    • Change out cables - Check, Check, Check
    • Speed test after speed test - Check
    • Check numbers on Modem myself - Check
    • Buffer bloat tests - check
    • Change firmware on router to DDWRT to eliminate Bufferbloat - Check
    • Speed test after speed test - Check
    • Call cable company to come out and look at everything again - Check
    • Speed test after speed test - Check
    • Realize none of this has made any difference and just try and play without doing any of this crap - Check

    Everything seemed to check out on my end. Every speed test looked fantastic. Every time I checked, or the cable company checked the info from my modem, signal looked great, no jitter, no packet loss, constant 11ms lag in EASHL connection monitor, upgrade everything, then upgrade again.

    It wasn't until I moved that anything changed. So, yes, it was ultimately in my control, but don't insult people by saying they haven't tried anything. Moving to play a game isn't a realistic solution, and when this is the only game you have that gives you these issues, you can't help but wonder how much responsibility should be on the user.

  • See if I played a game and did all that and it still didn't work. I'd be going straight to the company selling it and getting my money back and then I'd never support them again. With games like rocket league and counter strike there's plenty of other truly competitive games out there to get the sporting experience from. Yes it's not 3d hockey but it's a better game play experience and an actually complete game that works for everyone in all locations.

    There's only so much the devs of games can do if your isp for whatever reason makes your connection take a winding route to connect to the servers.

    Like I said my buddy lives in Trinidad and the only game giving him issues is pubg. Lots of people he's talked to there are saying it's his isp. The other isps on the island are better but they still recommend using a VPN to insure a proper route is taken to avoid lag.

  • dtRedUgVQvKjjQy7JypM8g.png

    This was my connection last night during my LG game. Keep in mind my connection is usually in betwen 15-16ms max/average I'd say about 90% of the time. Was it frustrating? Beyond belief!! And that was just MY connection, most of my teammates were complaining of the same issue, a few of them reported of having pings of over 45ms. Even after I turned off my stream for the 3rd period, my ping went down to 51ms which wasn't much better. But by that time my entire team was beyond triggered.

    Suffice it to say we lost that match and it sucked, but that was ONE match out of literally dozens and dozens I've been able to play completely lag free (or nearly). Oh, and we even had to restart the match after the 1st period because one of their players lagged out in the first 30 seconds of the game (another reason why my team was so triggered, the other team should've backed out immediately, but they didn't causing their AI to score 2 goals... *sigh* ) and I was having the same horrible delay both games.

    I played some drop-ins after that game and I resumed streaming, no issues with lag. So it's not fair to say that the problem is mostly on the user's side. Something causes the connection to the EA servers to change from game to game. That's not something that WE as users can control.

    Although we SHOULD be able to. We used to be able to in previous versions by selecting our default REGION. Why was that removed?
  • MetalMilitia623
    1464 posts Member
    edited October 2017
    That's a pretty nice bit of connection info. Can you see it live during the game or only after?
    Maybe not as much info as I thought

    net-graph-1-tab-1024x768.jpg
    They should give you most of this info as well. Variance and choke are critical as well as the tick rate. It'd help everyone identify issues and whose end it's on.
  • That's a pretty nice bit of connection info. Can you see it live during the game or only after?

    Maybe not as much info as I thought

    You can see it all during and after the game. That screenshot I posted was the network graph after the 1st period when we had to back out because one of their players dropped out. So basically, that's my connection to the EA Servers, not my teammates or the opponents.
  • That's a pretty nice bit of connection info. Can you see it live during the game or only after?
    Maybe not as much info as I thought

    net-graph-1-tab-1024x768.jpg
    They should give you most of this info as well. Variance and choke are critical as well as the tick rate. It'd help everyone identify issues and whose end it's on.

    It's actually not very helpful, in club games (connecting to EA server) at least. My ping is always 11 or 39 (+ or - 1) I played 3 games last night, first two felt super smooth. Last one had some lag and delay. All three showed 11 ms ping, with a super flat line. I've played vs games with 50+ ping that felt much better and more responsive than club games wtih 11ms ping.

    All through my problems with connections before I moved, the graph looked the same as it does now. I'm sure for some people it may help, but for me, it hasn't been good for anything.
  • @VeNOM2099 nice. Take a look at the picture I posted unless you saw it already. That's the info you should have. Ping is one thing but for a fast paced game like csgo or nhl you need more to truly identify a problem.
  • Most people who play NHL wouldn't know what to do what that info and would probably misconstrue it somehow.

    I'd like it if that network performance screen showed me my teammates connections to the server too so I'd know if it was just me, a few or the entire team that's lagging. That would be helpful.
  • you need more to truly identify a problem.

    Exactly. You guys are just spinning in circles trying to look at PING as some kind of indication as to what's causing you lag.

    The only thing the 'Network Performance' menu option tells you is how fast a packet travels to the EA server (or your opponent in P2P modes like HUT and VS) and back.

    It doesn't tell you how fast other users are having their packets travel.

    When 12 people connect to a dedicated server, the server needs to make sure all gamers get packets at the same time (or as close as possible).

    If 1 person in the session has a terrible connection (regardless of whether or not they have 100% fiber optic connection from God him/herself) you're all going to suffer the consequences.

    I sincerely doubt anyone in this thread who is 'troubleshooting' these issues is actually getting proper network information from all 12 players.

    Until you're able to get packet sniffs from all 12 users when a game is getting 'laggy'.. you're all just running in circles wasting massive amounts of time trying to nail this down.
  • Yea it's just called nhl legacy. It's an update of NHL 15 which is all nhl 16 is..

    yeah sure! :D

  • you need more to truly identify a problem.

    Exactly. You guys are just spinning in circles trying to look at PING as some kind of indication as to what's causing you lag.

    The only thing the 'Network Performance' menu option tells you is how fast a packet travels to the EA server (or your opponent in P2P modes like HUT and VS) and back.

    It doesn't tell you how fast other users are having their packets travel.

    When 12 people connect to a dedicated server, the server needs to make sure all gamers get packets at the same time (or as close as possible).

    If 1 person in the session has a terrible connection (regardless of whether or not they have 100% fiber optic connection from God him/herself) you're all going to suffer the consequences.

    I sincerely doubt anyone in this thread who is 'troubleshooting' these issues is actually getting proper network information from all 12 players.

    Until you're able to get packet sniffs from all 12 users when a game is getting 'laggy'.. you're all just running in circles wasting massive amounts of time trying to nail this down.

    Yes and that is very much on EAs end.
    They need to sink some time and money into this, and if they already are, they need to sink some more.
    I think they maybe tried something with syncing this year, hence all the reports of looping/desyncing.
    Now it seems that the number of complaints about looping has gone down, and "stuck in mud" complaints have risen, may just be me trying to find a pattern, though.

    Some clarity from EA would help immensely on accepting the situation and maybe also on providing them with the data they need.
    They have this community that will go the extra length to help them out.
    They need to do field tests? I'm sure they are welcome home to many on this forum.
    They want to put up a logger? They know where to find us...
    Set up a test server? We're here, ready to fill it up with gametesters.
    For now, we are left with discussing ping times and guessing what they are doing to fix this.

  • Sinbin wrote: »
    SpillGal wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    HUt's not a cash grab.
    I know you're always defending this game, but that is a blatant lie.

    A main feature of this mode is buying packs. They don't hide this at all. Are you going to accuse Amazon of being one giant cash grab because they sell products and make a profit? It's simple. If you don't want to buy packs, don't do it. You can get the same content for free, but it's going to take more work.

    Definition of cash grab:
    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cash_grab
    The one that fits this case best: A product designed primarily or solely with the intent of generating profits.
    Even if Amazon is set up to generate profits, please don't compare them to HUT, ever again! Please!
    In an AAA title you paid full price for, they have set up this borderline gambling for kids mode. Giving you the possibility of buying what is supposed to give you the upper-hand in the game.
    If you play this mode you can do so without paying extra, but you are missing out on building your dreamteam, which is what the mode is all about.
    In your reaching for arguments HUT / Amazon world, this would be: Amazon sells you a TV, turns out you have one channel and if you want more you'll have to pay a yearly fee for each and every one. Something like that.
    If this wasn't a cash grab, you would get in-game currency from playing the game, doing challenges, working the market and so on. Prizes would need to be better and the possibility to buy packs for money taken away.
    You can finance your game through the purchase prize or through microtransactions and/or commercials when you do all, it definitely classes as a cash grab.
  • Yea it's just called nhl legacy. It's an update of NHL 15 which is all nhl 16 is..

    nhl legacy is a re-release of nhl 15 (previous gen) with updated rosters and such. It should in no way be associated with NHL 16, which is written for current gen consoles and a very different game.
  • SpillGal wrote: »
    you need more to truly identify a problem.

    Exactly. You guys are just spinning in circles trying to look at PING as some kind of indication as to what's causing you lag.

    The only thing the 'Network Performance' menu option tells you is how fast a packet travels to the EA server (or your opponent in P2P modes like HUT and VS) and back.

    It doesn't tell you how fast other users are having their packets travel.

    When 12 people connect to a dedicated server, the server needs to make sure all gamers get packets at the same time (or as close as possible).

    If 1 person in the session has a terrible connection (regardless of whether or not they have 100% fiber optic connection from God him/herself) you're all going to suffer the consequences.

    I sincerely doubt anyone in this thread who is 'troubleshooting' these issues is actually getting proper network information from all 12 players.

    Until you're able to get packet sniffs from all 12 users when a game is getting 'laggy'.. you're all just running in circles wasting massive amounts of time trying to nail this down.

    Yes and that is very much on EAs end.
    They need to sink some time and money into this, and if they already are, they need to sink some more.
    I think they maybe tried something with syncing this year, hence all the reports of looping/desyncing.
    Now it seems that the number of complaints about looping has gone down, and "stuck in mud" complaints have risen, may just be me trying to find a pattern, though.

    Some clarity from EA would help immensely on accepting the situation and maybe also on providing them with the data they need.
    They have this community that will go the extra length to help them out.
    They need to do field tests? I'm sure they are welcome home to many on this forum.
    They want to put up a logger? They know where to find us...
    Set up a test server? We're here, ready to fill it up with gametesters.
    For now, we are left with discussing ping times and guessing what they are doing to fix this.

    What they need to do (and could do very easily) is include a "player sheet" that shows every player in the game with some info, like their current latency, like most good multiplayer games do.

    But spending time thinking about why EA does what they do...is a waste of precious time and brain power.
  • Latency is not the end all be all, notice @NHLDev hasn't said peep about the tick rate of the servers this game uses. Notice they don't allow you to see the choke or variance data from your connection. Iirc variance has to do with players syncing up properly.
  • Latency is not the end all be all, notice @NHLDev hasn't said peep about the tick rate of the servers this game uses. Notice they don't allow you to see the choke or variance data from your connection. Iirc variance has to do with players syncing up properly.

    That's because Ben ( @NHLDev ) doesn't necessarily work on the online portion of the game. That's something the online dev (forgot his name) might be better able to help us understand.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Latency is not the end all be all, notice @NHLDev hasn't said peep about the tick rate of the servers this game uses. Notice they don't allow you to see the choke or variance data from your connection. Iirc variance has to do with players syncing up properly.

    That's because Ben ( @NHLDev ) doesn't necessarily work on the online portion of the game. That's something the online dev (forgot his name) might be better able to help us understand.

    But I'm sure he could easily talk directly to that person and gather that information for us. Tick rate is a simple number. It's the number of times per second the client is updated with the server.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    "The lag thing goes to what is easiest to do. It's much easier to just say (insert evil corporation here) caused the problem. Instead of taking the time and effort to investigate any and all possible causes on your end."

    Already been done 10x over, its not on my end, from buying new equipment, replacing cables, upgrading ISP package, QOS settings, DMZ mode, removing firewalls and security features, setting/forwarding ports, direct connect, wired controllers, hard resets, clearing cache, power cycling, etc. etc. its all been done and not one of these things fixes the constant 1/2 second input delay playing EA NHL.
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