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EASHL skating is terrible

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  • Well, the problem I have with this already very dated TPS skating engine is that after all these years it still missing some basic "features" like to be able hard stop and hard accelerate.
    These animations are still missing for some reason. Like to see and feel players on the ice really pushing hard with skates. Even in TPS they still more like flyyyying over than accelerate imo.

    Now this is not perfect too, but at least something:



  • RichardDick
    74 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    Well, the problem I have with this already very dated TPS skating engine is that after all these years it still missing some basic "features" like to be able hard stop and hard accelerate.
    These animations are still missing for some reason. Like to see and feel players on the ice really pushing hard with skates. Even in TPS they still more like flyyyying over than accelerate imo.

    Now this is not perfect too, but at least something:



    If we had that skating in NHL 18 with the current graphics there would be significantly less complaining. It also looks a lot more realistic although a tad fast.
  • Well, the problem I have with this already very dated TPS skating engine is that after all these years it still missing some basic "features" like to be able hard stop and hard accelerate.
    These animations are still missing for some reason. Like to see and feel players on the ice really pushing hard with skates. Even in TPS they still more like flyyyying over than accelerate imo.

    Now this is not perfect too, but at least something:



    That's actually awesome given what you have to work with with the base engine and such. EA should have something at least that solid with 5+ years of the tps engine.
  • @NHLDev @NHL_ONL_Producer any chance we can get a speed bump in the online tuning? could that be a possible bandaid? the reaction times of the skating, stickhandling, and deking are painfully slow. once LG season games are over, everyone plays something else because this game causes too much grief.

    Someone mentioned the idea to total blow out the tuners for a night or two. Just really push them far, faster speed, higher acceleration, etc... Just exaggerate everything and see how the community responds. I love this idea (partly because I said the same thing 3 years ago). Even if they have to add an "Experimental" zone, just mess with the sliders, then tweak from there. Sometimes the wackiest attempts leads to the best solutions, even only if to show you what not to do.

    They should do this one night a week, or every two weeks. See what people say, regroup, then try something different the next time. By the end of the year, we might get tuning sets that the majority of people like.

    I really hope that EA has taken notice. Several threads of people complaining about all the issues with TPS and of the two people defending it, one doesn't even play the game anymore. It's time to try some radical solutions.

    My suggestion for a better skating engine? Responsiveness is key. Keep player weighting and momentum, up the acceleration, bring back different player speeds into EASHL, punish people for turning while going to fast by risking them falling over, exaggerate fatigue effects if someone tries to crosby themselves all over the ice. https://youtube.com/watch?v=TXQfTHVWIqM

    Other fixes needed to fix the rest of the game, defense should never working when directly behind the puck carrier, defense never tripping when poking from directly in front of the player, no more needing to poke check a puck 4 times for the puck carrier to lose possession, no auto saucers - manual only, end the spiderman goalies (because it's ridiculous to get robbed on wide open net one timers all game and lose because your AI goalie whiffs on a weak unscreened wrister from 90 feet out, and improve the online connections!!!
  • Am I going crazy?
    The_B_0_G wrote: »
    Where is evidence that it wasn't? It's all hearsay. Biggest problem here is all of you. You are why tps is broken. If you didn't buy the game ea would have been forced to make changes. They may make some changes based on forum feedback but for the most part they do not care. Corporations of that size don't give a darn until they are losing money hand over foot.

    If you guys wanted to see the game change directions for the better you'd have done as I did and stopped buying it. Thing is between 09 and 13 I noticed something about EA. They don't care about fixing problems that don't result in a marketable feature being created. Then based on that and the reaction to tps in nhl 13 I figured there's no way this will ever get better. It wasn't that bad back then and even in legacy is alright but according to all of you it is downright unplayable in the current game. Why is that? EA doesn't care about making it better and clearly have only made it worse. Why would I spend any money on something that is that terrible.

    That's like spending $600 on a brand new AR only to get it to the range and find out it doesn't fire or worse it explodes in your face.

    This post proves without a doubt you are a troll. You defend the game, then say don't buy it. You say TPS is fine, then admit it's a reason you quit playing. Why are you even on this forum? You're just a troll. I don't know why this thread hasn't been closed or you banned yet.

    Did you even read what I wrote or do you just see it's me and ignore everything and just put some nonsense down? I say tps was ok in the older games and that you tell me it's awful now... Then continue on to say if you really wanted to see a change you'd speak up with your money instead of just on the forum alone.

    I get it, you hate me because I stopped spending money on a broken product. It's not my fault you guys continue to buy it despite having such hatred for it. I never hated it as much as you all seem to but I knew it was just going to stagnate, and as we all know what happens when something stagnates? That's right it begins to become rotten. I don't drink stagnant water just like I don't play stagnant games.

    I have read all of your posts, and I don't hate you, you just annoy me, because you try to tell people how something works when you haven't played the game 5-6 years and there's really no way you could know without playing.

    You're like a guy who drove a car one time, and now thinks he's a mechanic.

  • MetalMilitia623
    1464 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    See, that's where you are mistaken. I can watch game play videos coupled with the videos of people showing the replay view that shows the stick movements and my knowledge of previous iterations of the game, I can formulate a basic understanding of how it's intended to work and how it actually works.

    Fact of the matter, which somehow gets missed by all of you, is how it's supposed to work and how it actually works are very far from one another and is the cause of many of the issues you have with the engine.

    I don't understand how you can say I'm for or against it seeing as I haven't played it I'm just trying to give a different view on it looking in from outside. You're all neck deep in the **** and I'm on the pier watching you swim. You choose to dive in so I'm not trying to pull you out but I am still going to give my opinion on this mess of a series.

    Seriously why would I defend a game that I've deemed not worth my money for 5 years?

  • Someone mentioned the idea to total blow out the tuners for a night or two. Just really push them far, faster speed, higher acceleration, etc... Just exaggerate everything and see how the community responds. I love this idea (partly because I said the same thing 3 years ago). Even if they have to add an "Experimental" zone, just mess with the sliders, then tweak from there. Sometimes the wackiest attempts leads to the best solutions, even only if to show you what not to do.

    They should do this one night a week, or every two weeks. See what people say, regroup, then try something different the next time. By the end of the year, we might get tuning sets that the majority of people like.

    I really hope that EA has taken notice. Several threads of people complaining about all the issues with TPS and of the two people defending it, one doesn't even play the game anymore. It's time to try some radical solutions.

    AFAIK, patches and tuners don't cost any money to release on this current gen so the dev team really has no excuse not to at least try something. back on the 360 the excuse was always we can't send out a patch until its 100% ready because it costs them $50k per patch to microsoft or whatever it was.

    it has been far too long and way too many complaints for the game to have become even less responsive than 17'. it's almost like they're trolling us at this point, i don't get it.

    i wish more of the game sucks 69 crowd from LG would voice their displeasure here, but most of them already know that posting here is pretty much **** in the wind. sadly, it will be a cold day in hell before we get a decent game again. every single mode has gotten worse from 09' with the exception of HUT because it wasn't around back then. completely unacceptable.

  • @NHLDev @NHL_ONL_Producer any chance we can get a speed bump in the online tuning? could that be a possible bandaid? the reaction times of the skating, stickhandling, and deking are painfully slow. once LG season games are over, everyone plays something else because this game causes too much grief.

    Someone mentioned the idea to total blow out the tuners for a night or two. Just really push them far, faster speed, higher acceleration, etc... Just exaggerate everything and see how the community responds. I love this idea (partly because I said the same thing 3 years ago). Even if they have to add an "Experimental" zone, just mess with the sliders, then tweak from there. Sometimes the wackiest attempts leads to the best solutions, even only if to show you what not to do.

    They should do this one night a week, or every two weeks. See what people say, regroup, then try something different the next time. By the end of the year, we might get tuning sets that the majority of people like.

    I really hope that EA has taken notice. Several threads of people complaining about all the issues with TPS and of the two people defending it, one doesn't even play the game anymore. It's time to try some radical solutions.

    Yea, I know I mentioned this over the summer when the game was pretty much dead anyways, why not use that time to actually do something to try and get people playing again? Give players some incentive (could even just be a crappy HUT pack or jersey) to play 5 games with the new tuners and provide some basic feedback on how various parts of the game felt. It could be as simple as ranking the following areas on a scale from 1-5 with 1 being much worse than normal, 3 being about the same, and 5 being much better than normal: Skating, shooting, goaltending, AI, Poke checking, stick checking, body checking, defense, offense, puck physics, and passing. Maybe add/subtract a few as needed, but that's at least a step in the right direction.
  • Woah you mean like build a survey into the game to allow people to give their feelings in a quick to read easy to identify trends and graph kind of way?

    Something that would be more efficient than having to sit and read through pages of nonsense to understand that for the most part people are not pleased with the core of the game design.
  • If you haven't played the game you have absolutely no credibility to argue about anything in regards to game play. Watching videos and seeing where people's thumbs are when moving is NOT playing the actual game.

    The skating seems a little better than 17 but it is still terrible. 4th line Enforcers in the NHL skate 100000000x better than any class in this game.

    Just watch any "game in 6" from last night and look at the cuts and acceleration of real players. This game comes no where near it. Anyone defending it is just plain dumb, or just intentionally trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it.

  • If you haven't played the game you have absolutely no credibility to argue about anything in regards to game play. Watching videos and seeing where people's thumbs are when moving is NOT playing the actual game.

    The skating seems a little better than 17 but it is still terrible. 4th line Enforcers in the NHL skate 100000000x better than any class in this game.

    Just watch any "game in 6" from last night and look at the cuts and acceleration of real players. This game comes no where near it. Anyone defending it is just plain dumb, or just intentionally trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it.

    Wait, so watching NHLers skate is ok but watching EA Sports players skate is not ok?
  • If you haven't played the game you have absolutely no credibility to argue about anything in regards to game play. Watching videos and seeing where people's thumbs are when moving is NOT playing the actual game.

    The skating seems a little better than 17 but it is still terrible. 4th line Enforcers in the NHL skate 100000000x better than any class in this game.

    Just watch any "game in 6" from last night and look at the cuts and acceleration of real players. This game comes no where near it. Anyone defending it is just plain dumb, or just intentionally trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it.

    Wait, so watching NHLers skate is ok but watching EA Sports players skate is not ok?

    Wow... I don't even...

    Do I really need to explain this to you or can you take a moment and think about it for yourself? Okay, judging by your response thinking clearly isn't your strong suit. If you are so good at watching other people play and formulating opinions about how the game performs without even playing then keep doing that and while you're at it watch some NHL games. Even without playing the game it is clear as day that the skating is clunky and does not resemble the speed, cuts, and acceleration of even the worst NHL skaters.
    Sorry but virtually everyone who has the game complains about skating. You seem to think the skating is fine...without having played the game... There is a bit of a disconnect here, no?

    Have fun watching.






  • If you haven't played the game you have absolutely no credibility to argue about anything in regards to game play. Watching videos and seeing where people's thumbs are when moving is NOT playing the actual game.

    The skating seems a little better than 17 but it is still terrible. 4th line Enforcers in the NHL skate 100000000x better than any class in this game.

    Just watch any "game in 6" from last night and look at the cuts and acceleration of real players. This game comes no where near it. Anyone defending it is just plain dumb, or just intentionally trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it.

    Wait, so watching NHLers skate is ok but watching EA Sports players skate is not ok?

    Wow... I don't even...

    Do I really need to explain this to you or can you take a moment and think about it for yourself? Okay, judging by your response thinking clearly isn't your strong suit. If you are so good at watching other people play and formulating opinions about how the game performs without even playing then keep doing that and while you're at it watch some NHL games. Even without playing the game it is clear as day that the skating is clunky and does not resemble the speed, cuts, and acceleration of even the worst NHL skaters.
    Sorry but virtually everyone who has the game complains about skating. You seem to think the skating is fine...without having played the game... There is a bit of a disconnect here, no?

    Have fun watching.






    You guys sure do love putting words (or other things) in my mouth. I have never once said the skating is fine. Manageable probably learn-able in a way that it becomes usable, absolutely. Definitely have never said it is "fine". It have never been fine in my opinion. In 09-12 it was far too arcade like for my tastes and since it has never gotten polished enough to be as good as tps could be. In 13 and Legacy it is for sure usable and every now and then does something wonky.

    I guess the disconnect here really is when I ask you guys something about, "how does this work?", or, "this used to work before how does it work now?" You fail to answer and somehow assume I am saying the skating is fine.

    From my understanding you have two options here, arcade skating or realistic. TPS is the most realistic the skating in NHL has ever been however it has been poorly implemented, horribly optimized and has not seen the upgrades necessary to make it as good as it could be.

    You're more than welcome to keep saying I am defending a game I flat refuse to buy because it is overpriced trash. Some of the mechanics are alright but most are not very well executed.

    I just take issue with most of you coming here saying tps doesn't work how you want/expect it to but you are unwilling to change your play style to use it how it currently works. It's not going to change at all until at earliest nhl 19 but even then it's unlikely to change. So keep voicing your opinions on the broken state of it but you must also adapt to how it works or the game is going to continue to frustrate you to no end.



    Take a look at this video. It shows a driving simulation game, but they take a "from the ground up approach" to simulating their vehicles. This means nothing is scripted by animations in the game and everything is based on a live physics engine.

    Before I left the NHL series I was playing this game some and when talk of real time physics came up this is the kind of thing I was expecting and that was clearly not the case. Their "physics" engine is still heavily based on scripted animations and not purely the physics of the situation.
  • HandsomeCatf1sh
    1707 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    The skating isnt THAAAAAAT bad. The key is to slow down on your joystick bros.
  • The skating isnt THAAAAAAT bad. The key is to slow down on your joystick bros.

    how ridiculous sounding is this quote. HERE WE ARE.


  • If you haven't played the game you have absolutely no credibility to argue about anything in regards to game play. Watching videos and seeing where people's thumbs are when moving is NOT playing the actual game.

    The skating seems a little better than 17 but it is still terrible. 4th line Enforcers in the NHL skate 100000000x better than any class in this game.

    Just watch any "game in 6" from last night and look at the cuts and acceleration of real players. This game comes no where near it. Anyone defending it is just plain dumb, or just intentionally trying to be a contrarian for the sake of it.

    Wait, so watching NHLers skate is ok but watching EA Sports players skate is not ok?

    Wow... I don't even...

    Do I really need to explain this to you or can you take a moment and think about it for yourself? Okay, judging by your response thinking clearly isn't your strong suit. If you are so good at watching other people play and formulating opinions about how the game performs without even playing then keep doing that and while you're at it watch some NHL games. Even without playing the game it is clear as day that the skating is clunky and does not resemble the speed, cuts, and acceleration of even the worst NHL skaters.
    Sorry but virtually everyone who has the game complains about skating. You seem to think the skating is fine...without having played the game... There is a bit of a disconnect here, no?

    Have fun watching.






    You guys sure do love putting words (or other things) in my mouth. I have never once said the skating is fine. Manageable probably learn-able in a way that it becomes usable, absolutely. Definitely have never said it is "fine". It have never been fine in my opinion. In 09-12 it was far too arcade like for my tastes and since it has never gotten polished enough to be as good as tps could be. In 13 and Legacy it is for sure usable and every now and then does something wonky.

    I guess the disconnect here really is when I ask you guys something about, "how does this work?", or, "this used to work before how does it work now?" You fail to answer and somehow assume I am saying the skating is fine.

    From my understanding you have two options here, arcade skating or realistic. TPS is the most realistic the skating in NHL has ever been however it has been poorly implemented, horribly optimized and has not seen the upgrades necessary to make it as good as it could be.

    You're more than welcome to keep saying I am defending a game I flat refuse to buy because it is overpriced trash. Some of the mechanics are alright but most are not very well executed.

    I just take issue with most of you coming here saying tps doesn't work how you want/expect it to but you are unwilling to change your play style to use it how it currently works. It's not going to change at all until at earliest nhl 19 but even then it's unlikely to change. So keep voicing your opinions on the broken state of it but you must also adapt to how it works or the game is going to continue to frustrate you to no end.



    Take a look at this video. It shows a driving simulation game, but they take a "from the ground up approach" to simulating their vehicles. This means nothing is scripted by animations in the game and everything is based on a live physics engine.

    Before I left the NHL series I was playing this game some and when talk of real time physics came up this is the kind of thing I was expecting and that was clearly not the case. Their "physics" engine is still heavily based on scripted animations and not purely the physics of the situation.

    Your problem is you're making pretty wild assumptions that nobody here knows how to use the engine based solely on videos that people they post of when the engine does something they don't like. Of course nobody is going to post a 20 minute video of an entire game when they really just want to focus on 5-10 seconds of gameplay. I'd bet the vast majority of players here are easily division 1 players, but even if they're not, I certainly am, and I agree with every video that they've posted.

    Here's the biggest problem with your video though. This is a hockey game, not a skating simulator. The skating engine shouldn't be anything more than a method for you to enjoy the game of hockey, and certainly not what you should be spending much time thinking about. There's just no need over-complicate things, when there's so much more to hockey that is more important that the intricacies of skating. It's like the bun of a hamburger, all it really needs to do is hold the rest of the game together, and nobody is going to complain about a mediocre bun on an otherwise good burger while a perfect bun isn't going to turn a mediocre burger into a good one.

    When you have a bad bun that means you can't use your hands to eat it, you might say that you can still eat it with a knife and fork, and it might even taste pretty good, but it's just not a hamburger anymore at that point. I want to buy a hamburger and EA is the only place in town that sells them, but this skating engine is a **** bun that can't hold the game together. I'm using the knife and fork I have to eat what's in front of me, but I'm also telling the chef that I'm not coming back until they bring back the buns they used to have or find something better.
  • @nickythewop So what you're saying is you want a more arcade style game? Because of the limiting factors of a controller for a control scheme vs actual legs and feet, you lose the ability to use your edges and do the multitude of other things that easily and naturally occur while skating. So you can use something that allows that to happen with no regards for how it looks or what EA has tried to do and do something that looks more realistic but does not allow the full fidelity of real world skating.

    However you saying that this isn't a skating simulator is not exactly correct. Racing games are not driving simulators but they do try to get real world driving physics correct. Beam is a driving simulator and you can drive race cars, tractor trailers and anything in between, they even have planes in the game that work fully with no modifications do the physics engine and they fly based on the aerodynamics built into the game.

    That is the power of a well built engine. EA's engine has always been geared towards arcade and when they tried to make it a mix of arcade and sim it got worse because it requires compromises on both ends. You see this divide in racing games too. Why do you think Forza now has a sim racer and an arcade racer as two separate games? Mixing arcade and sim does not and will never work. Until EA realizes that they will be stuck with the mediocre games they produce.
  • @nickythewop So what you're saying is you want a more arcade style game? Because of the limiting factors of a controller for a control scheme vs actual legs and feet, you lose the ability to use your edges and do the multitude of other things that easily and naturally occur while skating. So you can use something that allows that to happen with no regards for how it looks or what EA has tried to do and do something that looks more realistic but does not allow the full fidelity of real world skating.

    However you saying that this isn't a skating simulator is not exactly correct. Racing games are not driving simulators but they do try to get real world driving physics correct. Beam is a driving simulator and you can drive race cars, tractor trailers and anything in between, they even have planes in the game that work fully with no modifications do the physics engine and they fly based on the aerodynamics built into the game.

    That is the power of a well built engine. EA's engine has always been geared towards arcade and when they tried to make it a mix of arcade and sim it got worse because it requires compromises on both ends. You see this divide in racing games too. Why do you think Forza now has a sim racer and an arcade racer as two separate games? Mixing arcade and sim does not and will never work. Until EA realizes that they will be stuck with the mediocre games they produce.

    I'm not sure I'd go so far as I want the entire game to be arcade style, but the skating definitely needs to give up on trying to look perfectly realistic for the time being. Trying to imitate edge control with current hardware is just not intuitive because there are countless revenuers that EA has yet to code into the game, but are perfectly normal things to do in real life. What's funny to me is that with all the work they've put into TPS, they probably could have made the old engine look nearly as good without giving up any of the control responsiveness.

    No, racing games don't necessarily intend to provide real-world physics at all. The target is more like the limits of the suspension of disbelief, or the point at which users in the target audience are likely to notice inconsistencies within the game (either with reality or the "rules" established within the world the game is set in). In the Need for Speed franchise, this bar is fairly low, and as long as cars aren't moving through objects, violently bouncing off of other cars, flying, and they accelerate fast enough, not many people will complain too much (some might even complain if things get too realistic because their perception is that drifting and high speed turns aren't difficult to do). Obviously Forza is at the complete other end of the spectrum, and there is a wide gap between the two.

    Simplifying it to realistic vs arcade is a bit of a stretch though. It's more about the game fitting within the rules of what they believe to be possible. In a game like Super Mario where the developers can pretty much make up the rules as they go, they just need to be sure they're consistent, driving games need to simulate what their audience believes is possible to do in a car, and hockey games need to simulate what users believe to be possible. Certain games do make it a specific point to not be realistic, but are still responsible for creating a world that behaves consistently and in an explainable manner.

    I'm rambling here, but the point is that there is a difference between creating a simulation game, a realistic game, and an arcade game. NHL should be a realistic game, and not an arcade or sim game. There are areas that EA needs to take liberties with in terms of controls, but they need to behave in a way that users feel is actually possible, and users want to feel like they're controlling Ovechkin and not some beer league skater. It's a delicate balance, but TPS feels like a resounding failure year after year.
  • HandsomeCatf1sh
    1707 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    The skating really isn't bad. A lot of players are bad at skating though, but I'm not complaining...makes it easier for me.
    Figure it out!!! And most importantly...Have fun with it boys!
    Post edited by HandsomeCatf1sh on
  • By racing games I was not talking about clearly arcade style games. I was saying more along the lines of project cars, f1, Dirt, forza, assetto corsa
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