EA Forums - Banner

NHL 20 Patch Details April 3rd

image
Check out our April 3rd patch details here.

AI's programming with Challenges is down right cheating

2Next

Replies

  • mikeyflex wrote: »
    Finch1965 wrote: »
    mikeyflex wrote: »
    Not sure who at EA thought this was good. But they completely dropped the ball on the programming. All-Star/Superstar level is so unrealistic. AI's make plays that only happens in video game land. Here is a list:
    • Engine reacts to user input, not actual game play as a result, AI puck carrier avoids hits by skating around with "stutter stepping."
    • AI's have the ability to multi-task before user can react. This is evident with checks along the board and simultaneously holding puck carrier on the boards. Poke checking followed by checks. Full skating burst and checking. Dropping down to block shots as the puck is launched after shooting.
    • Making blind passes with precision always make stick to stick contact.
    • AI's penalty killing always clears puck high off the glass, rarely takes delay of game penalties.
    • AI puck carrier always rotates away from defenders to avoid stick on stick.

    If anyone really thinks ratings matter, play on All-Start/Superstar levels with a stacked team and see how your ratings give you the advantage, NOT.

    I more or less agree with you about the cheating. I experinced similar things. However, I think we can not really see these kind of challenges as a real hockey game, it is just an extra free game, where we can get something for some effort. And a challenge is a challenge. Yes it is sometimes annoying and completely unrealistic but it is what it is. Even when you dont get the final card, you can easily earn some coins or other things without waste any contract. Despite the room for improvement and kind of thankful that EA did something in that matter.

    However, I completely disagree with your final statement about the ratings. For me it is far easier to score and win with players like EVO Kucherov, EVO Crosby, EVO McDavid etc. than with my other lower rated team, hwich I use for change and fun. The main difference is the shoting accuracy. The AI goalies are still gods and almost unbeatible but with my top players I´m able to score more often form the distance, with one timers etc.

    So I would say it`s just the opposite, challenges are working completey according EAs principle "pay to win".

    You're rationale (which is completely wrong) is the reason why EA year-in-and-year-out puts out a half-**** product.

    Yet, we both still play the same game year-in-and-year-out.
  • Pre order packs today! Hooray!
  • verrette99 wrote: »
    I don’t care if the ai cheats or if it’s ‘’too hard’’, the rewards are good and that’s all that matters

    exactly.. it should be hard, I don't want every beginner at this game to be able to get the same rewards as an elite player.

    they should be earned
  • You guys are completely missing the boat, my rant has nothing to do with the challenges being hard. It's too perfect. Nobody talks about the AI's who react to user controller input as oppose to in-game events. This is cheating.
  • If nobody was winning these challenges I would agree with you. But people are winning them. I'm not a great player but I'm winning these challenges. But I do like a challenge.
  • The only thing that really annoys me is if you give them a shot in the last 10 seconds, it will 75% go in.

    As for cheating, of course it cheats. It's coding and not a human being. The only way it can work is by reacting automatically to your moves and taking some advantages. That will always be the only way a computer animated AI can work, no matter who makes the game. For it to be an actual challenge for the best players, it needs to be coded that it does things very fast and certain things even unrealistically good. Against the AI, there will always be small bugs that as a human player you can "cheat back" with. (Puck hogging etc.)

    Also, it's called superstar for a reason. What's the point in having a superstar level if any player that buys NHL and starts playing HUT will win it? That's why you can get those evo collectibles if you win the hardest challenges. I understand it's very annoying when the good prizes are there and just out of reach, but that's why they give out good prizes. As someone said, if no one would win then it would be a different scenario.

    It also helps if you have played a lot against AI's, because the style is a lot different to human vs human. Even with the super-no-look-passes I'm able to read the plays ahead and position my self so that they wont get good chances with their forehands (at least with my HUT team). Sometimes I just need to wait long in my own zone but eventually I'll get the puck.

    (Like others apparently) More often than not I get the hardest challenge with one try, so it doesn't mean it cheats to make it impossible to win. It "cheats" because that's the only way coding can work. I agree it's not perfect and there are flaws, but if you decrease the superstar skills (or "cheats"), no good player will ever have a challenge against the hardest AI level again, if they have a challenge in it now either.

  • I agree with your post. I wish facing the cpu on allstar meant they play better, not just have the sliders turned in their favour. The cpu’s strategies should improve with difficulty set higheR
  • If nobody was winning these challenges I would agree with you. But people are winning them. I'm not a great player but I'm winning these challenges. But I do like a challenge.

    Who said anything about not winning the challenges? I win them too. You're completely missing the point of the post.
  • The only thing that really annoys me is if you give them a shot in the last 10 seconds, it will 75% go in.

    As for cheating, of course it cheats. It's coding and not a human being. The only way it can work is by reacting automatically to your moves and taking some advantages. That will always be the only way a computer animated AI can work, no matter who makes the game. For it to be an actual challenge for the best players, it needs to be coded that it does things very fast and certain things even unrealistically good. Against the AI, there will always be small bugs that as a human player you can "cheat back" with. (Puck hogging etc.)

    Also, it's called superstar for a reason. What's the point in having a superstar level if any player that buys NHL and starts playing HUT will win it? That's why you can get those evo collectibles if you win the hardest challenges. I understand it's very annoying when the good prizes are there and just out of reach, but that's why they give out good prizes. As someone said, if no one would win then it would be a different scenario.

    It also helps if you have played a lot against AI's, because the style is a lot different to human vs human. Even with the super-no-look-passes I'm able to read the plays ahead and position my self so that they wont get good chances with their forehands (at least with my HUT team). Sometimes I just need to wait long in my own zone but eventually I'll get the puck.

    (Like others apparently) More often than not I get the hardest challenge with one try, so it doesn't mean it cheats to make it impossible to win. It "cheats" because that's the only way coding can work. I agree it's not perfect and there are flaws, but if you decrease the superstar skills (or "cheats"), no good player will ever have a challenge against the hardest AI level again, if they have a challenge in it now either.

    Really its "coding not a human being?" You can code in a delay to simulate human reaction. You sound like a EA sympathizer. Completely missing the point of the post.
  • I’m cool with the challenge levels after all it’s a challenge. But when my own players controlled by AI are doing everything in their power that I cannot get a shot on opponents net is downright ridiculous
    I bleed hockey!!!!!!!!!!
  • The opponent AI is not playing better as far as strategies and adjusting to strategies goes - it's just that the AI's game play sliders are pushed to the max while at the same time the AI on the human player's team is put into "lobotomized" mode.

    THAT in combination with the cpu reacting to controller input instead of the actual game play just put the icing on this cheese cake and is nothing more than yet another statement to the ignorance and/or incompetence of the developer team.

    It's just like what you might see in many first person shooter games when the difficulty is set to a higher level. The enemy AI will not change attack/defense strategies instead they become bullet sponges, thus making it in some case almost impossible for the human player to prevail.


  • Forza_De_Rossi
    16 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    [/quote]Really its "coding not a human being?" You can code in a delay to simulate human reaction. You sound like a EA sympathizer. Completely missing the point of the post. [/quote]

    I don't think I missed out the point. I agree it has a lot of flaws but the way to make it superstar and the CPU at the hardest level possible is to make their AI better than yours. Which someone already said I think.
    It does look very ridiculous sometimes with your AI skating away from the puck etc. If there is a higher delay in the opponents AI reaction I feel it would be way too easy. I think coding a hockey game, with skating and the random puck bounces is very hard. But yes, there are a lot of things they could do a better job with.
    I assume a big reason is they get a lot of income anyway from HUT and the bosses looking at numbers don't see a reason to increase budgets because their getting good profits anyway.
    This and probably the difficulty in coding hockey are the main reasons why it is what it is. Whether or not it's acceptable is for the consumer to decide, but I think those are the biggest issues.

    Uff. Just completed the Evolution challenge to get the EVO collectible. I thought the breakaway challenge was impossible to do but somehow managed to get it. Got the puck on the left side and their D overskated me and was able to get a clear breakaway and score. Won the game 7-3, so I don't feel their was too much cheating on the CPU's part..

    Before that game I tried forcing the game into OT and 3vs3, which seems to be the best way to get a breakaway. Got two breakaways during OT by placing my forward just above the red line and waited for my AI to get the puck and passed it forward immediately, but failed to score of course. Obviously there is a chance the CPU scores on their offensive zone 3vs2 and you have to start all over, but at least I was able to get the two breakaways.
  • jn1002000
    11 posts New member
    mikeyflex wrote: »
    Not sure who at EA thought this was good. But they completely dropped the ball on the programming. All-Star/Superstar level is so unrealistic. AI's make plays that only happens in video game land. Here is a list:
    • Engine reacts to user input, not actual game play as a result, AI puck carrier avoids hits by skating around with "stutter stepping."
    • AI's have the ability to multi-task before user can react. This is evident with checks along the board and simultaneously holding puck carrier on the boards. Poke checking followed by checks. Full skating burst and checking. Dropping down to block shots as the puck is launched after shooting.
    • Making blind passes with precision always make stick to stick contact.
    • AI's penalty killing always clears puck high off the glass, rarely takes delay of game penalties.
    • AI puck carrier always rotates away from defenders to avoid stick on stick.

    If anyone really thinks ratings matter, play on All-Start/Superstar levels with a stacked team and see how your ratings give you the advantage, NOT.

    Yeah, I know. Why did they make it so a bunch of Jr hockey 60s-70s can easily play an NHL team 85-90, and on pro level no matter my timing on face-offs it says "low skill level" or some **** like that. I mean I'm using Patrice Bergeron, Jonathan Toews & Doug Gilmour at centre
  • jn1002000
    11 posts New member
    I just played Acadie-Bathurst, and I led 1-0....all game; and with 30 seconds left, I get called for 3 straight "tripping" penalties and all game they get none, then tie it and with 1 minute left in OT another 3 straight penalties and a penalty shot to lose 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬
  • jn1002000
    11 posts New member
    jn1002000 wrote: »
    I just played Acadie-Bathurst, and I led 1-0....all game; and with 30 seconds left, I get called for 3 straight "tripping" penalties and all game they get none, then tie it and with 1 minute left in OT another 3 straight penalties and a penalty shot to lose 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

    Oh BTW, I'm in NHL 19
  • Socair
    2361 posts Game Changer
    Old thread closed. Please don’t revive threads this old.
    NHL Series Game Changer & Volunteer Moderator
This discussion has been closed.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!