EA Forums - Banner

When Goalies were Goalies

Replies

  • All positions are much more fluid irl than in the game. That said goalies are the most fluid. They need to find a way to make more control over everything a goalie can do.

    I also agree with the passing and shooting there needs to be a tell. If you watched any of the video I put about the first person hockey game in another thread it shows sticks being used in a way that you know the intention of the puck carrier.
  • Definitely we need to have more precise control over our movements as goalies. Unfortunately, today's standards method of input (controllers, keyboards, mice) can't offer the level of fidelity one would need to have 100% control of a goalie's movements + limbs to make saves.

    I just don't want the game to take over my inputs anymore. I want to be able to move around my crease while the game gives me PROPER save animations that fit the situation and my position in net, not just where the game "thinks" the shot is going. If in real life, a goalie leaves the bottom right portion of his net open, then he's going to stretch his leg, blocker and stick in that direction to try to cover as much of the open gap as he can. He's not trying to make a perfect save, he's just trying to cover the net. If the puck hits him good. If not, well at least he did what he could.

    That's what I want to see in this game.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Definitely we need to have more precise control over our movements as goalies. Unfortunately, today's standards method of input (controllers, keyboards, mice) can't offer the level of fidelity one would need to have 100% control of a goalie's movements + limbs to make saves.

    I just don't want the game to take over my inputs anymore. I want to be able to move around my crease while the game gives me PROPER save animations that fit the situation and my position in net, not just where the game "thinks" the shot is going. If in real life, a goalie leaves the bottom right portion of his net open, then he's going to stretch his leg, blocker and stick in that direction to try to cover as much of the open gap as he can. He's not trying to make a perfect save, he's just trying to cover the net. If the puck hits him good. If not, well at least he did what he could.

    That's what I want to see in this game.

    I think a big reason that isn't the way it works is because people would say, "it's too hard to score. I see this opening where the goalie isn't covering and shoot there but it's stopped every time"

    Problem being that's kind of how goalies play. They cover what they can and know what isn't covered and try to make it up as the shot is taken.
  • Well it wouldn't be any different than now when some human goalies (who have no idea what they're doing) are covering the wrong side of the net and the shooter hits him with the puck instead of shooting on the open side of the net.

    If a goalie stretches out a limb to cover the open net, it's up to the shooter to NOT shoot on him. The purpose of allowing human goalies to do this is not so that they can stop every shot, but to have them play like real goalies and try to limit the damage as much as possible instead of PURPOSELY allowing weak goals like they do now.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Well it wouldn't be any different than now when some human goalies (who have no idea what they're doing) are covering the wrong side of the net and the shooter hits him with the puck instead of shooting on the open side of the net.

    If a goalie stretches out a limb to cover the open net, it's up to the shooter to NOT shoot on him. The purpose of allowing human goalies to do this is not so that they can stop every shot, but to have them play like real goalies and try to limit the damage as much as possible instead of PURPOSELY allowing weak goals like they do now.

    Meh, I rarely play goalie but when I do, I feel like a pregnant cow about to give birth. Old gen was bad, new gen is bad. They are both very bad in their own particular ways. That is why I rarely play more than 30 games as a goalie in EASHL. Position is beyond frustrating and absolutely not fun. Here are some peeves, other than the blatant issues:

    When your standing and have possession of the puck. You are just about to pass to lob it out of the zone but nope, game decides to throw you on your knees, and well, too late, you pressed to clear the zone, so instead you pass it out like a weak wimp and someone snatches it up from you...

    When you're in the buterfly and the puck dribbles to you. All you want is to make sure an animation doesn't make that puck go between your legs so you expect the puck to hit your pads and rest right in front of you in case you want to freeze it. What's that? Your goalie decided to throw the puck behind the net with his stick and you didn't know it would happen because you are holding down the butterfly button and the other 4 times this didn't happen? Huh...

    Anyways, things like this happen all the time. How can you play the position when you yourself don't even know what your goalie will do....
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Well it wouldn't be any different than now when some human goalies (who have no idea what they're doing) are covering the wrong side of the net and the shooter hits him with the puck instead of shooting on the open side of the net.

    If a goalie stretches out a limb to cover the open net, it's up to the shooter to NOT shoot on him. The purpose of allowing human goalies to do this is not so that they can stop every shot, but to have them play like real goalies and try to limit the damage as much as possible instead of PURPOSELY allowing weak goals like they do now.

    Meh, I rarely play goalie but when I do, I feel like a pregnant cow about to give birth. Old gen was bad, new gen is bad. They are both very bad in their own particular ways. That is why I rarely play more than 30 games as a goalie in EASHL. Position is beyond frustrating and absolutely not fun. Here are some peeves, other than the blatant issues:

    When your standing and have possession of the puck. You are just about to pass to lob it out of the zone but nope, game decides to throw you on your knees, and well, too late, you pressed to clear the zone, so instead you pass it out like a weak wimp and someone snatches it up from you...

    When you're in the buterfly and the puck dribbles to you. All you want is to make sure an animation doesn't make that puck go between your legs so you expect the puck to hit your pads and rest right in front of you in case you want to freeze it. What's that? Your goalie decided to throw the puck behind the net with his stick and you didn't know it would happen because you are holding down the butterfly button and the other 4 times this didn't happen? Huh...

    Anyways, things like this happen all the time. How can you play the position when you yourself don't even know what your goalie will do....

    It's funny cause the "NHL" goalies in this game play worse than the elite league goalies I watch every week :smiley:
  • Yes I really do miss these days, my personal favorite for all time NHL games had to of been NHL15 on XB360. One of my all time favorites, our club had like 3,000 GP and were TOP#25 ALL TIME, great game! Also what the hell happened to taking away the "C" and the "A's", I mean seriously do we all have live in this "Everybody gets a trophy, ERA"?
    ThunderBay OutLaws / [OWNER] [A. CAPTAIN]
  • GoSens37 wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Well it wouldn't be any different than now when some human goalies (who have no idea what they're doing) are covering the wrong side of the net and the shooter hits him with the puck instead of shooting on the open side of the net.

    If a goalie stretches out a limb to cover the open net, it's up to the shooter to NOT shoot on him. The purpose of allowing human goalies to do this is not so that they can stop every shot, but to have them play like real goalies and try to limit the damage as much as possible instead of PURPOSELY allowing weak goals like they do now.

    Meh, I rarely play goalie but when I do, I feel like a pregnant cow about to give birth. Old gen was bad, new gen is bad. They are both very bad in their own particular ways. That is why I rarely play more than 30 games as a goalie in EASHL. Position is beyond frustrating and absolutely not fun. Here are some peeves, other than the blatant issues:

    When your standing and have possession of the puck. You are just about to pass to lob it out of the zone but nope, game decides to throw you on your knees, and well, too late, you pressed to clear the zone, so instead you pass it out like a weak wimp and someone snatches it up from you...

    When you're in the buterfly and the puck dribbles to you. All you want is to make sure an animation doesn't make that puck go between your legs so you expect the puck to hit your pads and rest right in front of you in case you want to freeze it. What's that? Your goalie decided to throw the puck behind the net with his stick and you didn't know it would happen because you are holding down the butterfly button and the other 4 times this didn't happen? Huh...

    Anyways, things like this happen all the time. How can you play the position when you yourself don't even know what your goalie will do....

    It's funny cause the "NHL" goalies in this game play worse than the elite league goalies I watch every week :smiley:

    Dude, they look, play, and feel worse than your average 14 year old at your local rink.
  • Reaction time, compared to NHL16 (by far the worst) and also NHL17 is miles ahead and beyond. Apparently there was a bug in some goalie code they didn't notice for 2 years that got fixed in NHL18. It would explain why it's night and day difference then the two previous games.

    However, reaction time in general for the game could be greatly improved still, but right now goalies are actually viable again and can win games by themselves. This hasn't been true since the last gen games.
  • drally20 wrote: »
    Reaction time, compared to NHL16 (by far the worst) and also NHL17 is miles ahead and beyond. Apparently there was a bug in some goalie code they didn't notice for 2 years that got fixed in NHL18. It would explain why it's night and day difference then the two previous games.

    However, reaction time in general for the game could be greatly improved still, but right now goalies are actually viable again and can win games by themselves. This hasn't been true since the last gen games.

    Idk about that. Goalies still rely HEAVILY on team in front of them, reason why goalies don't really matter in LG. You can put the best goalie in the league on worst team and he will still do garbage, and you can take a average/bad goalie and put him on a really good team and he will post good numbers. It's all about how good the team in front of you is, not how good the goalie is tbh. That will remain the same till they give human goalies tools to stop everything instead of having to rely on team to take away high % scoring chances.

    I really wish they added a new save animation when your butterfly sliding to RVH hug with the shooter where we always get the same blocking save animation and goalie still gets sniped from bad angle just above his shoulders. You literally have to start early and pick a side in those 1v1 situations to make the save, otherwise you always get that same animation even if you time it perfectly with the skater cutting across to the goalie to tuck it from bad angle.
  • A goalie can steal an LG game in which the teams are evenly matched by making a crazy save here and there by anticipating the play. However a goalie can not steal games from teams that are overmatched no matter how well there positioning and read of plays might be. That's not realistic, goalies like Lundqvist and Bobrovski hold their teams in it all the time, if we do what is right to make the save... we should be allowed to make the save. Like guessing correctly during a breakaway which direction the skater goes, nope goalies gotta get sniped
  • A goalie can steal an LG game in which the teams are evenly matched by making a crazy save here and there by anticipating the play. However a goalie can not steal games from teams that are overmatched no matter how well there positioning and read of plays might be. That's not realistic, goalies like Lundqvist and Bobrovski hold their teams in it all the time, if we do what is right to make the save... we should be allowed to make the save. Like guessing correctly during a breakaway which direction the skater goes, nope goalies gotta get sniped

    I used to steal games for my team in NHL 13 @Santini3 could probably attest to that, if he's safe from the fires.
  • I was very good as a Goalie on NHL10, 11, 12, 13, 14, and part time on 15. Once I switched over to NHL16 on the XBOX1 upgrading from the XB360, the position had really declined in overall physics. It really went down hill in NHL17 and now in NHL18 to find a good EASHL Goalie it's like mining for GOLD.
    ThunderBay OutLaws / [OWNER] [A. CAPTAIN]
  • A goalie can steal an LG game in which the teams are evenly matched by making a crazy save here and there by anticipating the play. However a goalie can not steal games from teams that are overmatched no matter how well there positioning and read of plays might be. That's not realistic, goalies like Lundqvist and Bobrovski hold their teams in it all the time, if we do what is right to make the save... we should be allowed to make the save. Like guessing correctly during a breakaway which direction the skater goes, nope goalies gotta get sniped

    I used to steal games for my team in NHL 13 @Santini3 could probably attest to that, if he's safe from the fires.

    Not to take anything away from you, but 13 was the worst when it comes to "goal line" goalies. You literally just had to sit there in butterfly and let the game win for you.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Look, I know goalies got a lot of "improvements" since last year. But there's so much more than can be done to make it more enjoyable.

    #1. Movements:

    Goalies need to move quickly and with precision. As a goalie I should move everywhere in my crease in an instant and snap into position, square to the puck. I should be able to track the puck much more easily than it is now. Getting on the post, kneeling, getting up again and challenging the puck should be fluid, quick and precise, not the clunky mess we have now.

    #2. Animations:

    The Auto-saves have to go. I get that they're there to help out the goalies, especially online where delay can make it difficult to make a save in time. But they shouldn't override the users inputs and lock you into place. As I have suggested in the past, if the auto-saves can't be removed, then give us a slider so WE can decide how much assistance from the game we want. It doesn't have to be a slider with full 0-100 range, just from 1 (Little assist) to 4 (Full assist). The game also needs to do a better job of recognizing the goalie's position in front of his net when deciding what save animation to go to when facing a shot. I'd also like to see more differentiation of saves between the classes (more on that below). I know that puck covers and post hugging are a "Legacy" issue, but for now speeding up the animations would help tremendously. It shouldn't take so long to come off my post when I have a pad on the ice. It shouldn't take so long to cover a puck. It shouldn't take so long to recover from a save. It shouldn't take so long... You get where I'm going with this?

    #3. Classes:

    Standup goalies don't exist anymore. And every goalie does "butterfly", so they should be reworked into new classes: Athletic, Positional/Blocking, Jumbo. Athletic Goalies should be small (6'0"), but agile and quick in their movements. They should have the most "balanced" stats and access to every type of save animation in equal measure. Their downside would be their smaller size, which means they'd have to make up for it by being very mobile and agressive in their crease. Positional/Blocking Goalies should be medium height (6'2"), with moderate speed but higher than normal rebound control where shots would either stay right in front of them (so they can cover up more easily) or redirect to the corners or behind the net. Their save animations should mostly be blocking type saves where they tuck their limbs into their bodies with very few "athletic" type saves available. This would be the type of goalie preferred by players who like to play positionally, not necessarily moving a lot unless they have to and who don't like to play TOO aggressively, but don't want to stay on their goal line either. Finally, Jumbo Goalies would be the biggest class (6'3"). These types would have the most athletic saves available with nearly NONE of the blocking type saves of the other two classes. But that would also mean that their rebound control is horrible. And since they're so big and heavy, their movements would be the slowest of the bunch but their reach could bail them out if needed. This class would be the preferred choice for "Goal Line Goalies" who like to play really deep in their net and move very little. The downside to them is that plays that move from one side of the ice to the other would beat them easily since they can't get across as fast. They might be able to put a limb out and make a save, but since their rebound control would be bad, they'd give a lot of 2nd chances as they'd be unable to control most shots. This way each class is different, each class has strengths and weaknesses that cater to different types of human goalies making them want to invest into a preferred class that matches their play style.

    This last suggestion would probably need to be done in a future version of NHL, but the 2 first suggestions should be done in a patch/tuner update in this year's game. At the very least some much needed tweaks to the goalie movements are in order and a few tweaks to the animations to speed them up a bit. Just doing those basic 2 things would make human goalies drastically better in NHL 18.

    Your suggestion on classes sounds awesome. I love it. It would also encourage different people to have to try and score differently depending on the opponent.
  • I don't know what you guys are complaining about.


    There's


    Nothing


    Wrong


    With


    Goalies



    All from the last two nights my club played.




  • I don't know what you guys are complaining about.


    There's


    Nothing


    Wrong


    With


    Goalies



    All from the last two nights my club played.




    Very tough breaks and absolutely frustrating to say the least.
  • I don't know what you guys are complaining about.


    There's


    Nothing


    Wrong


    With


    Goalies



    All from the last two nights my club played.




    Very tough breaks and absolutely frustrating to say the least.

    WOW to see that cut directly through the skate blade is complete ****.
    ThunderBay OutLaws / [OWNER] [A. CAPTAIN]
  • A goalie can steal an LG game in which the teams are evenly matched by making a crazy save here and there by anticipating the play. However a goalie can not steal games from teams that are overmatched no matter how well there positioning and read of plays might be. That's not realistic, goalies like Lundqvist and Bobrovski hold their teams in it all the time, if we do what is right to make the save... we should be allowed to make the save. Like guessing correctly during a breakaway which direction the skater goes, nope goalies gotta get sniped

    I used to steal games for my team in NHL 13 @Santini3 could probably attest to that, if he's safe from the fires.
    A goalie can steal an LG game in which the teams are evenly matched by making a crazy save here and there by anticipating the play. However a goalie can not steal games from teams that are overmatched no matter how well there positioning and read of plays might be. That's not realistic, goalies like Lundqvist and Bobrovski hold their teams in it all the time, if we do what is right to make the save... we should be allowed to make the save. Like guessing correctly during a breakaway which direction the skater goes, nope goalies gotta get sniped

    I used to steal games for my team in NHL 13 @Santini3 could probably attest to that, if he's safe from the fires.

    Not to take anything away from you, but 13 was the worst when it comes to "goal line" goalies. You literally just had to sit there in butterfly and let the game win for you.

    That may be true but I was an aggressive goalie challenging shots all the time. Sometimes too aggressive to the ire of my team. I hated those punks as much as the next guy.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited December 2017
    I used to steal games for my team in NHL 13 @Santini3 could probably attest to that, if he's safe from the fires.

    Well that's the thing. In NHL 18, I think a good goalie can keep his team in it, but he still can't steal games all by himself... Eventually, a puck's gonna take a weird bounce off your and go in, or it's going to get poked in by 5 guys mashing poke check around your crease while you're SSSSSLLLLLLOOOOOWWWWLLLLLLYYYYYY trying to cover the puck, or it's going to go through your equipment.

    You're never fully in control as a goalie. And because of that fact, you don't stand a chance unless your teammates limit the other team's chances.

Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!