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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


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Why Does This Happen Every Year?

Replies

  • kezz123
    550 posts Member
    Sinbin wrote: »
    kezz123 wrote: »

    There are always going to be trolls and quitters but you can try to mitigate the issue instead of letting it run wild.

    Some companies use rewards as a bait. IE: progression with XP that leads to cosmetic rewards. You get no xp if you quit.

    Then you can have short bans for leaving the matchmaking queue you join. it could be 5-10 minutes but it would prevent people from joining and leaving one room after the other non stop.

    Then I suppose you can add a report feature for trolling and ruining games. IE goalie exiting net on purpose and players being semi afk or offside on purpose. Once enough reports are received for the same behaviors you ban them from online modes.

    Anyways, there are ways but they need commitment and a larger dev team.

    Good ideas for sure. They still aren't infallible. Nothing ever will be. You need to encourage people to play well. I would like to see something like the old grading system implemented, but one that was fluid. Not one that never dropped. You could basically hit L3 and then troll all you wanted. If there was a risk for losing your level and boosts, it might get people to care more about their play. I also like putting people in a time out so to speak. That or like I said before, lump them all together and let the trolls troll each other.

    iT wont be just like it isnt in other games. Its like saying gun laws dont prevent all gun crime so lets let it be a free for all. Or red lights etc.
    Basically you put a series of preventing factors in place then you add a bit of policing and you mitigate the incidents by a large percentage which makes the mode playable again
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Leckaroo wrote: »
    The lag in this game makes me not even wanna play it anymore. It's been worse than usual the past couple months for whatever reason too. I can't believe I buy this crap every year.

    What game mode(s) are you playing?

    EASHL for West Coast players has been a hit or miss endeavor for years. I really do feel like a central North American server would help a lot as in EASHL there's a pretty good chance you're going to be playing with people all over the continent. On this board we've recently discovered that West coast players with Telus (primarily) and at certain times Shaw have been experiencing high pings regardless of what server they're on. I'm still not sure if this is a telus issue or an EA issue, but it hasn't affected ping times in other games for whatever reason.

    I still love playing the game mode, but dealing with significant delay and sluggish skating usually kills my fun within a game or two.
  • The most disappointing part is that I think so many of these people on these forums have offered band-aid fixes that could be just in tuners alone that would alleviate many frustrations but we never get the opportunity to see them tried.

    For example: people complaining about slow pivots when at a stand-still. Well, increase acceleration and agility a slight bit. Sure, the game would look more similar to 17 in my opinion but it at least fixes that portion.

    Goalies complaining about post-hugging being super slow and input delay? Increase goalie movement speed.

    Players getting lined up and bubbling off of hits? Increase hitting power of all of the classes.

    These I can't imagine take much time to adjust. Offline we can make these adjustments in under one minute's time. I just don't understand why they can't even possibly try these things. My guess is that when they try them, it causes new problems, but at least communicate that to us so we can understand why none of these issues are being addressed rather than leaving us in the dark about the entire situation.

    That is what I don’t understand. How come we never get any tuners for online play? The whole year players have been complaining about the poke check and nothing came out of it. So much for feedback
  • NHLDev
    1364 posts NHL Developer
    edited March 2018
    The most disappointing part is that I think so many of these people on these forums have offered band-aid fixes that could be just in tuners alone that would alleviate many frustrations but we never get the opportunity to see them tried.

    For example: people complaining about slow pivots when at a stand-still. Well, increase acceleration and agility a slight bit. Sure, the game would look more similar to 17 in my opinion but it at least fixes that portion.

    Goalies complaining about post-hugging being super slow and input delay? Increase goalie movement speed.

    Players getting lined up and bubbling off of hits? Increase hitting power of all of the classes.

    These I can't imagine take much time to adjust. Offline we can make these adjustments in under one minute's time. I just don't understand why they can't even possibly try these things. My guess is that when they try them, it causes new problems, but at least communicate that to us so we can understand why none of these issues are being addressed rather than leaving us in the dark about the entire situation.
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    That is what I don’t understand. How come we never get any tuners for online play? The whole year players have been complaining about the poke check and nothing came out of it. So much for feedback

    There are certain things that can be done in tuners and others that need code. We have released both patches and tuners this year to address things that we have wanted to improve, many of them brought up by the community as well.

    This thread covers the updates
    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/146691/nhl-18-patch-tuner-notes-updated-february-16th-2018#latest

    Since you brought up pokechecking and goalies specifically though, these were the notes from the last tuner:

    NHL 18 Tuner 1.02 - (Available December 20th, 2017)

    Pokechecking Balance:
    Increased the penalty to accuracy as you are spamming pokecheck
    Increased impact of error as the relative speed between the puck and the player is higher

    Goaltending:
    Adjusted goalie save logic so that it is more forgiving. Goalies reaction time vs the time it takes for the puck to get to them is still the biggest factor and goalies will still have the most success when in great position (center of their chest in line with the shot trajectory) and less success the more they have to reach from their body for the puck.


    I understand that there may be more things that you think should be done and I understand that you don't have the insight to know what is actually possible in a tuner vs. a patch and the associated risk with changes so I have no problem with the questions or speculation. However, I do have a problem with painting a picture that we somehow don't try and/or keep you in the dark, when we have specifically updated, fixed and improved things along the way that were possible and put up patch/tuner notes to correspond with those changes.
  • @NHLDev

    Would your team ever be willing to make an experimental game mode, where EA could release various sliders throughout the year?

    It could be a drop-in type game mode and the games wouldn't really count for anything, but your team could try out different things. I'm envisioning some tuner sets that completely abandon an attempt at realism one weekend, and the next attempting to make the game ultra realistic. Then the next it could be an exact copy of the current tuner used in the rest of the game, except, acceleration for example is cranked up a few notches.

    There could be a section on the forum for feedback from people who played with the sliders. It may help provide insight into what works and what doesn't in this game. Maybe a majority hates everything about a slider set, except shooting felt really good and rewarding to most people, so the next slider that gets released for the main game can incorporate some of those settings.

    I think this would be a way to keep the game feeling fresh throughout the year, since it will play completely different, and it may help strike the perfect balance between realism and arcade fun that the majority of players enjoy.
  • NHLDev
    1364 posts NHL Developer
    edited March 2018
    @NHLDev

    Would your team ever be willing to make an experimental game mode, where EA could release various sliders throughout the year?

    It could be a drop-in type game mode and the games wouldn't really count for anything, but your team could try out different things. I'm envisioning some tuner sets that completely abandon an attempt at realism one weekend, and the next attempting to make the game ultra realistic. Then the next it could be an exact copy of the current tuner used in the rest of the game, except, acceleration for example is cranked up a few notches.

    There could be a section on the forum for feedback from people who played with the sliders. It may help provide insight into what works and what doesn't in this game. Maybe a majority hates everything about a slider set, except shooting felt really good and rewarding to most people, so the next slider that gets released for the main game can incorporate some of those settings.

    I think this would be a way to keep the game feeling fresh throughout the year, since it will play completely different, and it may help strike the perfect balance between realism and arcade fun that the majority of players enjoy.

    We have talked about this sort of thing. From having different tournaments/weekends/time periods on the different set game styles to having more of a sandbox mode/matchup room to beta test things before they are live in the ultra competitive modes/ladders.

    There is potentially room for something like that as other games do similar things but at the same time, that is what we are often doing throughout the year and we have tested different game styles and settings with groups like the Gamechangers on top of the User experience testing we do with multiple groups of players of various skill levels and thoughts on what makes a great playing hockey game. Obviously opening this up to the wider community gives us an even bigger sample size but balancing a game by committee is usually not the best way to go either. It is interesting following threads on forums like Operation Sports where you have some very dedicated offline players tweaking the gameplay and multiple ideas on what the best simulation sliders are.

    So not sure if we will end up with that sandbox experience one day or not but it is something that has been discussed.

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    we have tested different game styles and settings with groups like the Gamechangers on top of the User experience testing we do with multiple groups of players of various skill levels and thoughts on what makes a great playing hockey game.
    I think Sethampehtamines proposal is brilliant, but I do also understand that it might not be the choice of EA, on how to decide how the game should work. I'm just curious on how you could take part in the user experience testing?
  • DontNeedTips
    187 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    Because I seemingly called the dev ignorant, and got a ban for pointing out a fact and haveing a strong, yet civil opinion, I will expound on that little comment.

    Its a fact the dev has been made aware of the server side problems. Its also a fact that we still can't choose a freaking server. We are held mercy to this games inept matchmaking. Thats a freaking problem. Thats a freaking indictment. No doubt the dev passed along the info to the rest of the team, or reached out to whoever he reached out to, yet for consecutive years there is absolutely no progress that's been made. I can tell you I have the same trash experience of being put on the wrong server at MINIMUM half the time.

    I'm certain Ea staff are aware of the forum frustration, but what good is them being aware ? When NHL 18 comes out and I'm not put on an east coast server, I won't come back on these boards and thank them, I will come back and say its about dam time.

    Im sorry for having the standard of a functional, fun game I PURCHASED, to not be riddled with online connectivity problems.

    incoming illegitimate ban coming in 3.....2.....1....
  • @sethamphetamines idea is EXCELLENT. I think that would be an awesome way to test things, similar to the "PBE" in League of Legends. I know I would play the heck out of that to try out all the new features/sliders.

    Great idea!
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    The most disappointing part is that I think so many of these people on these forums have offered band-aid fixes that could be just in tuners alone that would alleviate many frustrations but we never get the opportunity to see them tried.

    For example: people complaining about slow pivots when at a stand-still. Well, increase acceleration and agility a slight bit. Sure, the game would look more similar to 17 in my opinion but it at least fixes that portion.

    Goalies complaining about post-hugging being super slow and input delay? Increase goalie movement speed.

    Players getting lined up and bubbling off of hits? Increase hitting power of all of the classes.

    These I can't imagine take much time to adjust. Offline we can make these adjustments in under one minute's time. I just don't understand why they can't even possibly try these things. My guess is that when they try them, it causes new problems, but at least communicate that to us so we can understand why none of these issues are being addressed rather than leaving us in the dark about the entire situation.
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    That is what I don’t understand. How come we never get any tuners for online play? The whole year players have been complaining about the poke check and nothing came out of it. So much for feedback

    There are certain things that can be done in tuners and others that need code. We have released both patches and tuners this year to address things that we have wanted to improve, many of them brought up by the community as well.

    This thread covers the updates
    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/146691/nhl-18-patch-tuner-notes-updated-february-16th-2018#latest

    Since you brought up pokechecking and goalies specifically though, these were the notes from the last tuner:

    NHL 18 Tuner 1.02 - (Available December 20th, 2017)

    Pokechecking Balance:
    Increased the penalty to accuracy as you are spamming pokecheck
    Increased impact of error as the relative speed between the puck and the player is higher

    Goaltending:
    Adjusted goalie save logic so that it is more forgiving. Goalies reaction time vs the time it takes for the puck to get to them is still the biggest factor and goalies will still have the most success when in great position (center of their chest in line with the shot trajectory) and less success the more they have to reach from their body for the puck.


    I understand that there may be more things that you think should be done and I understand that you don't have the insight to know what is actually possible in a tuner vs. a patch and the associated risk with changes so I have no problem with the questions or speculation. However, I do have a problem with painting a picture that we somehow don't try and/or keep you in the dark, when we have specifically updated, fixed and improved things along the way that were possible and put up patch/tuner notes to correspond with those changes.

    So would it be fair to say that a tuner on your end doesn't work nearly the same as the user able to use the tuner settings (sliders) to adjust the game. You couldn't just change the value of the coding to increase speed, power, agility or whatnot?

    I've worked with coding for websites and if I need to adjust something I adjust the number on the value. I just assumed that you guys would have some of those capabilities when it came to an attribute.
  • So would it be fair to say that a tuner on your end doesn't work nearly the same as the user able to use the tuner settings (sliders) to adjust the game. You couldn't just change the value of the coding to increase speed, power, agility or whatnot?

    I've worked with coding for websites and if I need to adjust something I adjust the number on the value. I just assumed that you guys would have some of those capabilities when it came to an attribute.

    Yes, that is how we tuned something like the example above for pokechecking and goalies.

    We have more options to us than what is available through the front end tuning but the sliders we added a couple years ago exposed a fairly good set of base tuners and a range for players to impact how the game plays. That is why you can switch those presets yourself and play on Arcade settings all the way up to Full Sim and then impact the individual sliders under each beyond that if you choose to dial in the settings even more.
  • Thanks for the responses NHLDev. I’ve played since inception, now play mainly HUT. The last couple years have been painful trouble shooting why there’s such an inconsistency from game to game in your in game players response.

    The biggest thing I’ve noticed as a tell tale sign that the game isn’t playing “fair” is AI offsides. You can be skating in a total straight line on a 2 on 1, or any combo of players, with as much or as little space and the AI can’t stop in time or doesn’t Even try to hold the line. I play with my 4 year old and he picked up not going offside within a day. Why is it that some games you have 0 and others you get 5+? The 5+ games are always an extra battle to compete. This is definitely not a lag issue. It happens no matter what your ping is. Happens playing against my neighbour or a friend 10 km away.

    The other strange one is your AI going dead off of faceoffs. You can’t switch players and your team stands still. It seems to affect both teams, had a battle today where both of our AI wouldn’t move until on of us picked up the puck.

    You have developed a great game but the online experience is frustrating at best. I would happily pay for someone from your staff to come to my house and play for a day if they could walk away and say that Your giving a good customer experience for people trying to compete, not just having fun and for a participation ribbon.
  • HoodHoppers
    905 posts Member
    edited March 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    So would it be fair to say that a tuner on your end doesn't work nearly the same as the user able to use the tuner settings (sliders) to adjust the game. You couldn't just change the value of the coding to increase speed, power, agility or whatnot?

    I've worked with coding for websites and if I need to adjust something I adjust the number on the value. I just assumed that you guys would have some of those capabilities when it came to an attribute.

    Yes, that is how we tuned something like the example above for pokechecking and goalies.

    We have more options to us than what is available through the front end tuning but the sliders we added a couple years ago exposed a fairly good set of base tuners and a range for players to impact how the game plays. That is why you can switch those presets yourself and play on Arcade settings all the way up to Full Sim and then impact the individual sliders under each beyond that if you choose to dial in the settings even more.

    Okay, so if you're able to tune something like goalie movement speed, acceleration, agility, hitting power, etc. and you're aware of some of the issues as brought up by the community and acknowledged by EA themselves, why hasn't there been more tuners to address them? My initial statement I was pretty harsh in critiquing the involvement of the development of the game, but I just don't understand why any of these band-aid fixes haven't been applied. The pokechecking and goalie tuners were necessary, but the game has been out for 8 months and there have been patches and whatnot, but for only 2 tuners (affecting raw attributes) I just find it kind of odd that in previous titles I felt there were many more tuners and a much more of an attempt to balance the game more.

    I remember most of the community criticisms about the game years ago were simply based on balancing the game through tuners in an effort to perfect the game. Now I feel majority of the comments are game ideas in desperation to get the series back on track and enjoyable again. I don't think we expect you guys to fix puck pickups this year, the true precision skating, or even fix many of the bugs that plague the game, but with those already lowered expectations I feel a simple numbers change on some attributes for online play isn't asking much to alleviate some of the frustrations of those things you guys don't have the capabilities to fix quickly.

    Yeah, many of us are harsh but with the lack of communication about the intentions on the direction the game is going, coupled with the repeated disappointment in decision making from the higher ups (focus on 3's, the abundance of HUT updates, etc.) don't you think that's fair? Many of us absolutely despise this company, yet see the unlimited potential and offer some of the greatest suggestions to change our minds on it.

    Just by replying to us goes a long way. It takes my hate level for EA from maybe an 8 down to a 3 and actually gives me hope for NHL 19 sadly. Why? Because as a community we at least know that people like yourself actually put in the effort. And hey, even if you voice an opinion that'll receive negative feedback, then that's a great thing. It means more ideas, it gives the company the direction they're supposed to go (as opposed to TOLD to go). Sorry to be harsh but I really think band-aid fixes is your last move to make this year's installment at least less frustrating and if you don't do that, then you fail a ridiculously easy task as a company. What's the worst that could happen? You resort back to the old tuner? It's been on the old tuner for months on end, and we're frustrated with it.
  • NHLDev
    1364 posts NHL Developer
    edited March 2018
    Okay, so if you're able to tune something like goalie movement speed, acceleration, agility, hitting power, etc. and you're aware of some of the issues as brought up by the community and acknowledged by EA themselves, why hasn't there been more tuners to address them? My initial statement I was pretty harsh in critiquing the involvement of the development of the game, but I just don't understand why any of these band-aid fixes haven't been applied. The pokechecking and goalie tuners were necessary, but the game has been out for 8 months and there have been patches and whatnot, but for only 2 tuners (affecting raw attributes) I just find it kind of odd that in previous titles I felt there were many more tuners and a much more of an attempt to balance the game more.

    .....

    Just by replying to us goes a long way. It takes my hate level for EA from maybe an 8 down to a 3 and actually gives me hope for NHL 19 sadly. Why? Because as a community we at least know that people like yourself actually put in the effort. And hey, even if you voice an opinion that'll receive negative feedback, then that's a great thing. It means more ideas, it gives the company the direction they're supposed to go (as opposed to TOLD to go). Sorry to be harsh but I really think band-aid fixes is your last move to make this year's installment at least less frustrating and if you don't do that, then you fail a ridiculously easy task as a company. What's the worst that could happen? You resort back to the old tuner? It's been on the old tuner for months on end, and we're frustrated with it.

    The thing is when you say "we're", you aren't actually representing the whole community and game balance is very subjective. If we thought the game was out of balance, we would continue to tune the game.

    In the past we have had players tell us the game played better in the Beta or that it played better before tuners. Those are perfect examples where we had been given information (from what we had hear, read and seen ourselves) that led us to believe the game wasn't playing the way we intended so we tuned to get it more in line with the initial direction/balance we expected, yet not everyone felt that was the case once all was said and done.

    You are free to voice your opinion on what you think the 'band-aid fixes' would be that you would make but if we don't make them, that doesn't mean that we aren't listening or aren't trying. It just may mean that we don't agree and/or don't feel the opinion is represented by the community as a whole. We also understand what we have the ability to tune and what the knocks on are to the rest of the balance of the game.

    When there are people saying the game is too slow and too fast, it is actually probably balanced even though both sets of people would make a change.

    There are people that say the game is ridiculous because every time they get hit, they lose the puck and everytime they hit their opponent, they somehow keep it. That isn't the game being out of balance, that is a skill difference between Players.

    There are players that will tell you that the pokecheck is too overpowered and others that will tell you that it is too hard to strip a puck carrier.

    All that said, there are plenty of improvements I would like to make with each of the mechanics in the game to make them even better. Those aren't always simple fixes though. So we always tune the game within the current way that it plays. I am not sure if we will put out more tuners or not but as of right now, it is tuned the way we intend based off the sum of all of the parts.
  • Well I appreciate the response. I disagree with your vision, and based off of the agrees and likes on a lot of posts I think many others do as well, but I do appreciate the feedback.
  • I think something that would be neat to see is maybe a poll for the community to fill out to see what they think in regards to what attributes should be tuned.
  • Bmh245
    872 posts Member
    NHLDev wrote: »
    There are players that will tell you that the pokecheck is too overpowered and others that will tell you that it is too hard to strip a puck carrier.

    All that said, there are plenty of improvements I would like to make with each of the mechanics in the game to make them even better. Those aren't always simple fixes though. So we always tune the game within the current way that it plays. I am not sure if we will put out more tuners or not but as of right now, it is tuned the way we intend based off the sum of all of the parts.

    You can't really intend for players to be able to poke their sticks through players' bodies and then knock the puck away, but that happens all the time in this year's game.

    And at least on every forum I've looked at (here, Reddit, Twitter, Facebook), there are few (if any) players saying that they like how easy it is to poke check from behind/through players' bodies. On the contrary, it's one of the things people have complained about most consistently this year. And the tuner did not make a material difference in that regard.

    There are also very few players who are happy with the way puck pickups (not seamless, but just ordinary pickups) work this year. With the current tuning, they're just woefully inconsistent, so that on one trip down the ice a player will be able to snag a hard rebound while skating at full speed and fire it home in one motion, or reach behind himself and grab the puck while still skating at full speed, while on the next trip a player in a glide right next to the puck won't even reach out to grab it.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    There are players that will tell you that the pokecheck is too overpowered and others that will tell you that it is too hard to strip a puck carrier.

    All that said, there are plenty of improvements I would like to make with each of the mechanics in the game to make them even better. Those aren't always simple fixes though. So we always tune the game within the current way that it plays. I am not sure if we will put out more tuners or not but as of right now, it is tuned the way we intend based off the sum of all of the parts.

    You can't really intend for players to be able to poke their sticks through players' bodies and then knock the puck away, but that happens all the time in this year's game.

    And at least on every forum I've looked at (here, Reddit, Twitter, Facebook), there are few (if any) players saying that they like how easy it is to poke check from behind/through players' bodies. On the contrary, it's one of the things people have complained about most consistently this year. And the tuner did not make a material difference in that regard.

    There are also very few players who are happy with the way puck pickups (not seamless, but just ordinary pickups) work this year. With the current tuning, they're just woefully inconsistent, so that on one trip down the ice a player will be able to snag a hard rebound while skating at full speed and fire it home in one motion, or reach behind himself and grab the puck while still skating at full speed, while on the next trip a player in a glide right next to the puck won't even reach out to grab it.

    Those are the things that annoy me the most about playing this game (EASHL only). It’s that the poke checks/dss and puck pickups are so inconsistent.

    I play primarily D and can go 3-5 games without getting a penalty and then the next game I’ll get 3 in one period and I’m not doing anything differently.

    One period/game my player easily picks up pucks then the next period/game he doesn’t.

    Same goes for whiffing on slap shots and one-timers.

  • Levis9999 wrote: »
    Thanks for the responses NHLDev. I’ve played since inception, now play mainly HUT. The last couple years have been painful trouble shooting why there’s such an inconsistency from game to game in your in game players response.

    The biggest thing I’ve noticed as a tell tale sign that the game isn’t playing “fair” is AI offsides. You can be skating in a total straight line on a 2 on 1, or any combo of players, with as much or as little space and the AI can’t stop in time or doesn’t Even try to hold the line. I play with my 4 year old and he picked up not going offside within a day. Why is it that some games you have 0 and others you get 5+? The 5+ games are always an extra battle to compete. This is definitely not a lag issue. It happens no matter what your ping is. Happens playing against my neighbour or a friend 10 km away.

    The other strange one is your AI going dead off of faceoffs. You can’t switch players and your team stands still. It seems to affect both teams, had a battle today where both of our AI wouldn’t move until on of us picked up the puck.

    You have developed a great game but the online experience is frustrating at best. I would happily pay for someone from your staff to come to my house and play for a day if they could walk away and say that Your giving a good customer experience for people trying to compete, not just having fun and for a participation ribbon.

    Yes! This ^^^ this is what i would love to hear a response on. Playing on line this year has been equal parts infuriating, predictable, tedious and so inconsistent from minute to minute and game to game. I dont think its to much to ask in 2018 to have a smooth playing game on line. Ive done everything on my end such as better router, speed tests,tv in game mode, wired connection all of it. I cannot see this as an issue on my end because i play many other titles on line with zero issue but my favorite game is and always will be hockey but seeing you guys are the only one left and my continued annoyance instead of enjoyment that happens less and less.
  • Bmh245 wrote: »

    You can't really intend for players to be able to poke their sticks through players' bodies and then knock the puck away, but that happens all the time in this year's game.

    And at least on every forum I've looked at (here, Reddit, Twitter, Facebook), there are few (if any) players saying that they like how easy it is to poke check from behind/through players' bodies. On the contrary, it's one of the things people have complained about most consistently this year. And the tuner did not make a material difference in that regard.

    There are also very few players who are happy with the way puck pickups (not seamless, but just ordinary pickups) work this year. With the current tuning, they're just woefully inconsistent, so that on one trip down the ice a player will be able to snag a hard rebound while skating at full speed and fire it home in one motion, or reach behind himself and grab the puck while still skating at full speed, while on the next trip a player in a glide right next to the puck won't even reach out to grab it.

    The disconnect between what you are saying and what you are responding to is that the pieces you mentioned aren't due to tuning. We intend for every stick that goes through the geometry of a player before making contact with the puck to not allow it to poke the puck.

    From what I have seen this year, most videos posted on these forums regarding a stick going through geometry first have actually been a player saying 'why didn't I get this puck' and people are able to point out that part pf the shaft of the stick went through a leg first. When you say 'all the time' what would you say the actual percentage is that you still see a puck knocked away after the stick went through geo first?

    We have seen cases where the puck gets knocked away before contact in a clean pokecheck case. Those aren't intended either but usually the result of the update on the frame. The stick would make contact with the puck or players stick during the frame but the loose puck signal happens first and comes free at the start of the frame rather than after the contact. This isn't ideal as we would like it to visually always match up obviously and is something I would like to improve. Beyond that, when you have an order of operations issue like that, it is possible that it gets it wrong and can knock a puck off that it shouldn't as well which is something I would want to look at the same time. Unfortunately that is more complex code and not tuning so you need good repro cases on a debug machine and it isn't necessarily easy to repro on one machine -- which is why I was curious on your stats when you say 'all the time'. If we can get a more solid repro step, it can definitely help tracking it down.

    As for the tuning we did do in regards to pokes from behind -- we looked at the penalty cases since poke accuracy in front of you can't be tuned down without losing it in cases that are in front of you when you are in more ideal cases either. A player skating ahead full speed should always pull away from someone that is poking from behind and if you protect the puck, the chances of a trip are fairly high in those scenarios too -- however, the tuning that people like when defense is in good position when it comes to poke accuracy and stick on stick contact making the puck loose can be overpowered in terms of the leverage you would have when behind a player in real life. Seeing those conditions after improving pokecheking with the defensive skill stick feature, we would probably want to add more tuning ability over your relative angle to the puck carrier and not just the poking angle relative to yourself which we thought would be most important before. Either way though, knowing how things play out in game, we still believe the overall tuning is correct for what we have the ability to do technically in the mechanics at present.

    You may not see people on twitter saying they like the pokechecking but those people are more likely to just play the game rather than get on twitter to talk about how much they enjoy it. We have had really good feedback overall about defense feeling more balanced than they have been in the past and that the defensive skill stick was a great addition and in some cases gets called out as underrated by core fans. That is in part due to the current tuning that if we changed it for other scenarios might diminish it's ability in the places people like how it is working -- which is why we spent more time on the spamming case, accuracy at bad angles and penalty cases when getting your stick into a players skates, etc.

    Puck pickup cases that we expect a player to pickup a puck that they don't is unfortunately not tuning either. The remaining pieces to fix that are most likely going to be more complex that they are to call out when you see them happen as you can go into practice mode and throw the puck around and skate over it again and again and always get a pickup so again it takes repro cases on a debug machine to see what is really happening. This gets clouded sometimes online as people that skate past a bouncing puck call out bad pickups as well but in those cases we don't intend a player to be able to get the puck possibly, where the ones you are calling out that they skate by in a glide we do.

    There are a few things to look at there as there are some cases where we have reaction time penalties such as when a puck gets deflected off its original line and the players need to re-react to the new trajectory. So in those cases, they may not be able to pickup for 'x' frames for that reason. The tuning seems right on those but there could be issues there if we could get a repro case that proves it.

    We also ensure that other actions will override an attempt to pickup (for example trying to poke a poke, sticklift, going into DSS or attempt a body check, etc.) In some cases we see of peoples bad pickups, some players are skating over the puck after trying to poke it first and possibly not out of that state yet to then pickup. All things we are looking at to make sure they are behaving as intended in all cases as flags are set/unset, etc.

    I know that you look at the game very detailed and always appreciate the feedback, videos, etc.. You just have to trust that we also see things at that detailed level as well and will do what we can to improve the experience.
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