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The Tilt

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  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Sinbin wrote: »
    sctty98 wrote: »
    You true believers and your lag theory. There is documented proof the ea has this technology, and yet you still deny it.

    There is no proof whatsoever that it's actually in the game. The dev team has said on numerous occasions that it doesn't exist. It's only good as an excuse for poor play. Quite simply, people aren't as good at this game as they think they are and they can't handle that.

    Please don't generalize and speak for everyone.

    I too believe there is no tilt.

    What I do believe however, is questionable coding at certain times and add less a than stellar connection quality and boom, there you have it. Super AI on one team, noob AI on the other. You also have the try-hards that have lag switches or upload content while being the host in VS and HUT games to bog down connection quality for their opponents.

    You solve those 3 issues and you will most likely see ice tilt theories drop by 90%

    And for those of you saying EA has technology to implement something along these lines, please explain to me how it pertains to EASHL where there is no money involved.

    It's a generalization that makes more sense than ice tilt though. We all know how rampant confirmation bias runs in this community. There have been a huge amount of assumptions turned in to "facts" here. Ice tilt being one of them. There have been numerous conspiracy theories over the years. I'm not saying everyone is part of that generalization, but it's no secret that there's a lot of rage over losing in this community.

    What you explain is a far more logical reason for perceived ice tilt. Couple that with random broken sticks, flukey goals, injuries, penalties, etc., and you have a recipe for conspiracy.
  • COGSx86
    781 posts Member
    Not this again!
    You must unlearn what you have learned!
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    leeriehle wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    leeriehle wrote: »
    Lol OK and because EA says I will believe it too???
    I was gullible enough to buy NHL 18 but I think I have since woken up to the truth.
    The game is no longer fun for me.
    And I feel not enough is being fixed in this game to keep me as a customer .

    I'll say it one more time. Companies need to be very careful about what they say in a public space like this. They won't make claims about something like ice tilt not being in the game if it weren't true. That can be held against them. When they repeatedly say it doesn't exist, it means it doesn't exist.

    What is way more likely is that you're just not as good at the game as you think you are.
    The only thing clear to me is you are the only one defending EA.
    What exactly do you get out of that?
    And what does me not being good at the game have to do with the example I gave?


    As pointed out, it's a generalization. Yes, I typically am the only one, or one of the only ones defending EA. It wouldn't have to be EA though. When a company repeatedly says something doesn't exist, I tend to believe it. Especially one that's publicly traded. So, because I don't think the same as everyone else and because I have a different opinion I'm automatically wrong? Look, man. If you want to believe there's AI in this game so advanced it scripts wins for you, that's your choice. Hopefully you at least consider both sides instead of just assuming EA is determining the winner of the game not by human choices, but by a machine.

    I'd still like to see one of you guys put your controller down and see how many games you win with the supposed ice tilt engine.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    sctty98 wrote: »
    You true believers and your lag theory. There is documented proof the ea has this technology, and yet you still deny it.

    There is no proof whatsoever that it's actually in the game. The dev team has said on numerous occasions that it doesn't exist. It's only good as an excuse for poor play. Quite simply, people aren't as good at this game as they think they are and they can't handle that.

    Please don't generalize and speak for everyone.

    I too believe there is no tilt.

    What I do believe however, is questionable coding at certain times and add less a than stellar connection quality and boom, there you have it. Super AI on one team, noob AI on the other. You also have the try-hards that have lag switches or upload content while being the host in VS and HUT games to bog down connection quality for their opponents.

    You solve those 3 issues and you will most likely see ice tilt theories drop by 90%

    And for those of you saying EA has technology to implement something along these lines, please explain to me how it pertains to EASHL where there is no money involved.

    It's a generalization that makes more sense than ice tilt though. We all know how rampant confirmation bias runs in this community. There have been a huge amount of assumptions turned in to "facts" here. Ice tilt being one of them. There have been numerous conspiracy theories over the years. I'm not saying everyone is part of that generalization, but it's no secret that there's a lot of rage over losing in this community.

    What you explain is a far more logical reason for perceived ice tilt. Couple that with random broken sticks, flukey goals, injuries, penalties, etc., and you have a recipe for conspiracy.

    Your generalization makes more sense to you because you never have connection issues. Think back to before you fixed your issues, would you still blindly defend there is no mechanism influencing outcomes? Something tells me you would be less adamant than you currently are. This is normal as we base our assumptions on what we perceive.

    Broken sticks and whatnot are another good example, and I fully agree.

    I also agree this community is extremely toxic. Players constantly offside when they feel they don't touch the puck enough, D men running around like wingers, etc... But in the end, you know how it is. Those goals you feel should have happened, or not happened, etc. People hate losing in general.
  • headup81
    101 posts Member
    Sinbin wrote: »
    sctty98 wrote: »
    You true believers and your lag theory. There is documented proof the ea has this technology, and yet you still deny it.

    There is no proof whatsoever that it's actually in the game. The dev team has said on numerous occasions that it doesn't exist. It's only good as an excuse for poor play. Quite simply, people aren't as good at this game as they think they are and they can't handle that.

    Please don't generalize and speak for everyone.

    I too believe there is no tilt.

    What I do believe however, is questionable coding at certain times and add less a than stellar connection quality and boom, there you have it. Super AI on one team, noob AI on the other. You also have the try-hards that have lag switches or upload content while being the host in VS and HUT games to bog down connection quality for their opponents.

    You solve those 3 issues and you will most likely see ice tilt theories drop by 90%

    And for those of you saying EA has technology to implement something along these lines, please explain to me how it pertains to EASHL where there is no money involved.

    This is horribly naive.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member

    Your generalization makes more sense to you because you never have connection issues. Think back to before you fixed your issues, would you still blindly defend there is no mechanism influencing outcomes? Something tells me you would be less adamant than you currently are. This is normal as we base our assumptions on what we perceive.

    Broken sticks and whatnot are another good example, and I fully agree.

    I also agree this community is extremely toxic. Players constantly offside when they feel they don't touch the puck enough, D men running around like wingers, etc... But in the end, you know how it is. Those goals you feel should have happened, or not happened, etc. People hate losing in general.

    It's not blind though. EA has repeatedly said it doesn't exist. I've also never been a conspiracy theory person so I wouldn't blame my bad connection on the game.

    We also base our assumptions on what we want to perceive. Look at the posts that come out after updates that have no effect on gameplay. All of a sudden people are saying things got worse or better when nothing with gameplay was touched. This is a very regular occurrence with updates.

    Losses are a part of sports. They're a part of life in general. What people are proposing with ice tilt is that the devs have built a way in to the game to give the person the win that would feel worse about taking the loss. That's always the complaint. X player took more shots and had more TOA, but they still lost. Just because one side is better at scoring it doesn't mean the computer forced them to win. If you take less shots and have less TOA, doesn't that also mean your opponent played excellent defense, but you have a good shot and capitalized on the chances you were given?

    Hockey is a game where almost any shot on net has a chance to score. You see it in the real world as well. Greasy goals and bad bounces are nothing new to the sport. People hate losing. Especially at a video game. It's the one time instead of yelling at your team on TV that you actually have some control in the outcome. When it doesn't go your way, you push the blame on someone else. Look at that CoD meme from years ago. The pie chart showing your reason for dying. Something like 97% of it was, censoring myself here, freaking nonsense when the other 3% was something like, deserved deaths. Yeah, it's a joke, but if you've played a game like CoD you know people blame their deaths on pretty much anything but themselves. Is that not some form of ice tilt?
  • I 100% do not believe in ice tilt in the sense that the game is somehow predetermined by EA to go in one players favor. I believe we as a community need to stop accusing them of that because it glosses over the true issue and allows them to make us seem like conspiracy theorists.

    That being said, there certainly is something going on out of the ordinary, and my experience playing the game this weekend leads me to believe that my connection is the main culprit. I will preface the following by saying I have pretty good internet (100 mbps up and down) and have a hardwired connection from my router to by Xbox. I also never play a game that is not green in the pre-game screen. Finally, for all of the games I mention below my ping was under 20.

    I was off on Friday for the holiday, so was able to play during the day. A lot of others had work, and I live in a highly populated neighborhood, so I would assume there was way less internet traffic than usual. I fired up HUT Champs and played a few games (a couple against highly-rated guys). I was flying. My passes were connecting, my defensemen were pivoting decently (the flaws with the skating engine were still evident), my players would accelerate as they should, and even my AI seemed to be in the right place more often than not. In short, I was having fun. I played ALL DAY because the game was actually fun to play. I played again Friday night after going out to dinner and a movie (at about 11:30/midnight) and had a similar experience.

    Cut to Sunday night around 8pm. I get home from a get together with my family and am excited to play some HUT. Aaaaannndd my passes are going everywhere but the intended recipient, my players are skating in mud, my AI is constantly in my way, my poke checks are missing inexplicably, etc. Basically, it was one of those games where I knew something was off (what has been called ice tilt). Played for a few hours even so (because now I have to make up the points I lost) with the same result until about 10:30 or so where this stops happening and the game plays normal again.

    I get to thinking, it seems as if the game is playing better when there is likely less overall internet traffic in my area. I think back to all of the times when the game feels decent and I do well, and it is normally either early Saturday morning or late at night. So maybe there is something going on there? I have not noticed this as much with EASHL, but come to think of it I really don't play that until 10pm or later.

    I don't know if this makes sense or even helpful, as it is purely anecdotal. Hopefully it adds to troubleshooting the issue people, including me, are having. Whereas my connection might be the culprit, there is really nothing I can do about it other than moving, haha. I imagine that is the same issue for many people experiencing these issues, so a simple "fix your connection" is not feasible in many cases.

    I don't know if something like dedicated servers would help anything since I don't know how any of this works.
  • I honestly think it is connection issues.

    I 100% do not believe that EA is predetermining outcomes. But there is something going on and my anecdotal experience is that the issue is most prevalent during "peak internet periods." During prime hours (I live in a heavily populated neighborhood) I get the various things that I assume others perceive as ice tilt, even though my ping is perfect (under 20). I connect via Ethernet as well with 100mbps up/down and never play if the connection does not show as green.

    I am interested to see if any others notice this more during peak internet periods. I have noticed that the game plays best for me either early morning or late night. At first I thought perhaps it was just in my head, but now I am convinced that is not the case.
  • EASHL only.

    Might not be “ice tilt” but there is definitely something that affects the outcomes of games.

    I remember on last gen whether winning or losing relatively early in the game you and your team pretty much knew if you were going to win or lose. Coming back from 3-0 was so hard to do against a good team. This gen IT IS the worst lead to have. It is so easy to comeback now.

    On last gen my friends and I could toy with and against lousy opponents for two periods as to not blow them out and have them all quit. Then in the 3rd, go all out for the win. We felt like we were in control. Currently, not so much. Something usually happens to make the game close. Skill gap between teams/players mattered. Not so much now.

    This goes for winning and losing so it’s not because I suck. It’s also not due to connection issues either because mine is always good.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    mhandymanb wrote: »
    EASHL only.

    Might not be “ice tilt” but there is definitely something that affects the outcomes of games.

    I remember on last gen whether winning or losing relatively early in the game you and your team pretty much knew if you were going to win or lose. Coming back from 3-0 was so hard to do against a good team. This gen IT IS the worst lead to have. It is so easy to comeback now.

    On last gen my friends and I could toy with and against lousy opponents for two periods as to not blow them out and have them all quit. Then in the 3rd, go all out for the win. We felt like we were in control. Currently, not so much. Something usually happens to make the game close. Skill gap between teams/players mattered. Not so much now.

    This goes for winning and losing so it’s not because I suck. It’s also not due to connection issues either because mine is always good.

    So, you're saying you fought harder in the 3rd and came back for the win? That proves something fishy is going on? I've seen come from behind wins in EASHL every year.

    Keep in mind also that there have been a lot of reports of many people quitting the game. It's entirely possible that many top players have left so the competition isn't what it used to be. Still, I don't see how it's any easier to comeback now than it was before.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    mhandymanb wrote: »
    EASHL only.

    Might not be “ice tilt” but there is definitely something that affects the outcomes of games.

    I remember on last gen whether winning or losing relatively early in the game you and your team pretty much knew if you were going to win or lose. Coming back from 3-0 was so hard to do against a good team. This gen IT IS the worst lead to have. It is so easy to comeback now.

    On last gen my friends and I could toy with and against lousy opponents for two periods as to not blow them out and have them all quit. Then in the 3rd, go all out for the win. We felt like we were in control. Currently, not so much. Something usually happens to make the game close. Skill gap between teams/players mattered. Not so much now.

    This goes for winning and losing so it’s not because I suck. It’s also not due to connection issues either because mine is always good.

    So, you're saying you fought harder in the 3rd and came back for the win? That proves something fishy is going on? I've seen come from behind wins in EASHL every year.

    Keep in mind also that there have been a lot of reports of many people quitting the game. It's entirely possible that many top players have left so the competition isn't what it used to be. Still, I don't see how it's any easier to comeback now than it was before.
    Sinbin wrote: »
    mhandymanb wrote: »
    EASHL only.

    Might not be “ice tilt” but there is definitely something that affects the outcomes of games.

    I remember on last gen whether winning or losing relatively early in the game you and your team pretty much knew if you were going to win or lose. Coming back from 3-0 was so hard to do against a good team. This gen IT IS the worst lead to have. It is so easy to comeback now.

    On last gen my friends and I could toy with and against lousy opponents for two periods as to not blow them out and have them all quit. Then in the 3rd, go all out for the win. We felt like we were in control. Currently, not so much. Something usually happens to make the game close. Skill gap between teams/players mattered. Not so much now.

    This goes for winning and losing so it’s not because I suck. It’s also not due to connection issues either because mine is always good.

    So, you're saying you fought harder in the 3rd and came back for the win? That proves something fishy is going on? I've seen come from behind wins in EASHL every year.

    Keep in mind also that there have been a lot of reports of many people quitting the game. It's entirely possible that many top players have left so the competition isn't what it used to be. Still, I don't see how it's any easier to comeback now than it was before.

    Not at all. On old gen, if we were the better team all we had to do was start “trying” in the 3rd to win. If we were winning the majority of the time we knew the other team wasn’t coming back.

    Now, no lead is safe and it’s way to easy to comeback even against better teams/players.

    I can play a drop in games with a team of scrubs and I’m still confident because of EA bull spit that we can comeback to make the game close, tie it and even win it the majority of the time.
  • headup81 wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    sctty98 wrote: »
    You true believers and your lag theory. There is documented proof the ea has this technology, and yet you still deny it.

    There is no proof whatsoever that it's actually in the game. The dev team has said on numerous occasions that it doesn't exist. It's only good as an excuse for poor play. Quite simply, people aren't as good at this game as they think they are and they can't handle that.

    Please don't generalize and speak for everyone.

    I too believe there is no tilt.

    What I do believe however, is questionable coding at certain times and add less a than stellar connection quality and boom, there you have it. Super AI on one team, noob AI on the other. You also have the try-hards that have lag switches or upload content while being the host in VS and HUT games to bog down connection quality for their opponents.

    You solve those 3 issues and you will most likely see ice tilt theories drop by 90%

    And for those of you saying EA has technology to implement something along these lines, please explain to me how it pertains to EASHL where there is no money involved.

    This is horribly naive.

    Meh, believe what you wish. At the end of the day, I am scoring my goals and able to sleep at night.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    mhandymanb wrote: »

    Not at all. On old gen, if we were the better team all we had to do was start “trying” in the 3rd to win. If we were winning the majority of the time we knew the other team wasn’t coming back.

    Now, no lead is safe and it’s way to easy to comeback even against better teams/players.

    I can play a drop in games with a team of scrubs and I’m still confident because of EA bull spit that we can comeback to make the game close, tie it and even win it the majority of the time.

    So, on the current gen when you try to come back, you can't? That proves there is a mechanic in place preventing you from winning?

    Drop in games are a disaster. We all know that. Between the trolling and the selfish play, they're awful and have nothing to do with any kind of ice tilt.

  • Sinbin wrote: »
    mhandymanb wrote: »

    Not at all. On old gen, if we were the better team all we had to do was start “trying” in the 3rd to win. If we were winning the majority of the time we knew the other team wasn’t coming back.

    Now, no lead is safe and it’s way to easy to comeback even against better teams/players.

    I can play a drop in games with a team of scrubs and I’m still confident because of EA bull spit that we can comeback to make the game close, tie it and even win it the majority of the time.

    So, on the current gen when you try to come back, you can't? That proves there is a mechanic in place preventing you from winning?

    Drop in games are a disaster. We all know that. Between the trolling and the selfish play, they're awful and have nothing to do with any kind of ice tilt.

    Reading comprehension. ;)

    On current gen it is especially too easy to comeback.

  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    mhandymanb wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    mhandymanb wrote: »

    Not at all. On old gen, if we were the better team all we had to do was start “trying” in the 3rd to win. If we were winning the majority of the time we knew the other team wasn’t coming back.

    Now, no lead is safe and it’s way to easy to comeback even against better teams/players.

    I can play a drop in games with a team of scrubs and I’m still confident because of EA bull spit that we can comeback to make the game close, tie it and even win it the majority of the time.

    So, on the current gen when you try to come back, you can't? That proves there is a mechanic in place preventing you from winning?

    Drop in games are a disaster. We all know that. Between the trolling and the selfish play, they're awful and have nothing to do with any kind of ice tilt.

    Reading comprehension. ;)

    On current gen it is especially too easy to comeback.

    Sorry, man. I'm running on a few hours of sleep today. My bad. So, correct me then if I'm wrong. The problem is that you can come back too easy, but you feel the game forces that? I've seen plenty of skilled players in EASHL, but it most often comes down to chemistry and teamplay. In more games than not, the better teamplay wins.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    mhandymanb wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    mhandymanb wrote: »

    Not at all. On old gen, if we were the better team all we had to do was start “trying” in the 3rd to win. If we were winning the majority of the time we knew the other team wasn’t coming back.

    Now, no lead is safe and it’s way to easy to comeback even against better teams/players.

    I can play a drop in games with a team of scrubs and I’m still confident because of EA bull spit that we can comeback to make the game close, tie it and even win it the majority of the time.

    So, on the current gen when you try to come back, you can't? That proves there is a mechanic in place preventing you from winning?

    Drop in games are a disaster. We all know that. Between the trolling and the selfish play, they're awful and have nothing to do with any kind of ice tilt.

    Reading comprehension. ;)

    On current gen it is especially too easy to comeback.

    Sorry, man. I'm running on a few hours of sleep today. My bad. So, correct me then if I'm wrong. The problem is that you can come back too easy, but you feel the game forces that? I've seen plenty of skilled players in EASHL, but it most often comes down to chemistry and teamplay. In more games than not, the better teamplay wins.

    While it is true what you say, problem is, if you go back say 5 or 6 years, you could literally get destroyed. Seems last 3 years have been alot more forgiving for weaker teams in EASHL. A team has to be incredibly bad to get blown out of the water.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member

    While it is true what you say, problem is, if you go back say 5 or 6 years, you could literally get destroyed. Seems last 3 years have been alot more forgiving for weaker teams in EASHL. A team has to be incredibly bad to get blown out of the water.

    It's easier to defend now. You have better tools than before. The game doesn't favor offense as much as it used to. So, is the issue that people are able to defend a lot better so now it's harder to come back? That's not some in game mechanic favoring one team over the other. That's people learning how to defend according to the new tools they're given. If a team is truly weak, they're going to lose the majority of their games.
  • So if it's 100% based on connection to your opponent then why do games vs the CPU feel inconsistent? One game your Canadian Olympic team is slow as 18 wheelers despite having McDavid and Co and Price is allowing 5 goals on 8 shots .... then you play the same settings vs the same team but your bum Benoit Pouliot is putting on a clinic and Cam Ward is standing on his heading.
  • Sinbin wrote: »

    While it is true what you say, problem is, if you go back say 5 or 6 years, you could literally get destroyed. Seems last 3 years have been alot more forgiving for weaker teams in EASHL. A team has to be incredibly bad to get blown out of the water.

    It's easier to defend now. You have better tools than before. The game doesn't favor offense as much as it used to. So, is the issue that people are able to defend a lot better so now it's harder to come back? That's not some in game mechanic favoring one team over the other. That's people learning how to defend according to the new tools they're given. If a team is truly weak, they're going to lose the majority of their games.

    You're not paying attention today.

    It is easier to come back than ever before.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Sinbin wrote: »

    While it is true what you say, problem is, if you go back say 5 or 6 years, you could literally get destroyed. Seems last 3 years have been alot more forgiving for weaker teams in EASHL. A team has to be incredibly bad to get blown out of the water.

    It's easier to defend now. You have better tools than before. The game doesn't favor offense as much as it used to. So, is the issue that people are able to defend a lot better so now it's harder to come back? That's not some in game mechanic favoring one team over the other. That's people learning how to defend according to the new tools they're given. If a team is truly weak, they're going to lose the majority of their games.

    You're not paying attention today.

    It is easier to come back than ever before.

    You said this: Seems last 3 years have been alot more forgiving for weaker teams in EASHL. I read that as weaker teams being better now. What am I missing here?
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