EA Forums - Banner

You want the perfect video describing fat man lag?

Replies

  • Hey guys, top 100 vs player here so I'm not "a scrub".

    I honestly have no idea why this happens but the AI will stop skating sometimes and every player you pass to will have to start from 0 making you completely stuck in the mud.

    Infuriating.

    It would be fixed with the reintroduction of "Create a Play" but with that we will also see the return of money plays, but even that is preferable to this, I'll let you know If I come up with an easy way to prevent it, so far I've found that backwards passes help get the ai moving again.
  • Sixrohki wrote: »
    Hey guys, top 100 vs player here so I'm not "a scrub".

    I honestly have no idea why this happens but the AI will stop skating sometimes and every player you pass to will have to start from 0 making you completely stuck in the mud.

    Infuriating.

    It would be fixed with the reintroduction of "Create a Play" but with that we will also see the return of money plays, but even that is preferable to this, I'll let you know If I come up with an easy way to prevent it, so far I've found that backwards passes help get the ai moving again.

    I have so many cases here too where my players will be skating up ice like they are breaking out and I'll send a pass to a breaking forward only to have them appear to stop for a few frames in order to grab the pass, which in turn kills their full-speed momentum they were starting to achieve. Sometimes they even look like they are turning towards me as they receive it, which really kills it since now they are doing unnecessary pivots "in the mud."

    Now I noticed this happens a lot when you use the regular pass button, but if you sauce them a pass it is much less prevalent, but you run the risk of the puck just bouncing off his stick for no apparent reason. I am not sure if this is done by design or if it's just another result of lag/latent situations, but is very annoying because of the number of times in a game you rely on your forwards to breakout correctly.
  • I feel like I'm playing with concrete on my skates my players feel like blocks..they move like there in a phone booth.there is nothing smooth about this game.the tilt is off the charts bad the momentum swings r outrageous my guy won't pick up the puck it's extremely frustrating..i will not keep playing this game if u continue to put out poor quality hockey games n u would bet my life that sales for this game r way down. Thank u for letting me give my opinion.hope adjustment can b made
  • How many threads now have we had multiple page breakdowns of the programming involved in the most basic of on-ice interactions? TPS just isn’t the answer, and a new direction is needed. You’ll never see a D-man in the NHL receieve a pass 3 feet inside the blue line and shuffle his feet like he is slipping on a banana peel in a scooby doo cartoon and do a half spin to go offsides and then bring the puck back over the line to kill the play, yet it happens all the time in this game.

    I love that NHL_Dev comes here to interact and let us know about the programming that’s going on, I mean, that is really great and he obviously cares. However, doesn’t all this stuff ever make you think it’s time to go in a new direction with the skating and movement? Not only is it completely unrealistic, but it makes the game infuriating and completely unenjoyable.

    Please consider doing nothing but fixing the skating/movement and the servers for NHL 19.
  • CrushNHL wrote: »
    How many threads now have we had multiple page breakdowns of the programming involved in the most basic of on-ice interactions? TPS just isn’t the answer, and a new direction is needed. You’ll never see a D-man in the NHL receieve a pass 3 feet inside the blue line and shuffle his feet like he is slipping on a banana peel in a scooby doo cartoon and do a half spin to go offsides and then bring the puck back over the line to kill the play, yet it happens all the time in this game.

    I love that NHL_Dev comes here to interact and let us know about the programming that’s going on, I mean, that is really great and he obviously cares. However, doesn’t all this stuff ever make you think it’s time to go in a new direction with the skating and movement? Not only is it completely unrealistic, but it makes the game infuriating and completely unenjoyable.

    Please consider doing nothing but fixing the skating/movement and the servers for NHL 19.

    Three words for EA to think about...LESS IS MORE. Right now it just seems like they are trying to do too much and it plays like dog crap for many of us. Maybe they can't duplicate it "in studio" therefore it doesn't exist.

    What they should do is find out who's having most of the problems and play the game on the same internet in the same location and do their extensive testing from there. If it is deemed that the poor game-play is due to internet limitations and not the end user then they need to go back to the drawing board and rebuild a simpler game that works flawlessly online. That simple.
  • ExSnake01
    466 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Sixrohki wrote: »
    Hey guys, top 100 vs player here so I'm not "a scrub".

    I honestly have no idea why this happens but the AI will stop skating sometimes and every player you pass to will have to start from 0 making you completely stuck in the mud.

    Infuriating.

    It would be fixed with the reintroduction of "Create a Play" but with that we will also see the return of money plays, but even that is preferable to this, I'll let you know If I come up with an easy way to prevent it, so far I've found that backwards passes help get the ai moving again.

    Honestly, I think it's part of the "emotion" factor or momentum system that happens behind the scenes. Probably some kind of manipulation of the sliders as you make each hit, passes, fights and shots. The older NHL games used to have a meter or a gauge that reflects how much you had. It's the only thing I can think of but that's a taboo subject here.

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Bmh245 wrote: »

    No - the LD moving backward there isn't because he was holding down VC. It happens if you simply hold the LS a touch too long when passing backward. I see this regularly because I run a lot of my offense through my D-men.

    The real issue here isn't fat man lag. It's that the game treats the initial command (pass backward to the point) as enduring, and applies it to the LD's skating, even though all OP was doing with the LS was directing the pass. The game should require another command before it makes the LD do anything (other than receive the pass, which he does automatically). In other words, to move the LD backward there, the game should have to receive a new command, which in this case would entail moving the LS off 6 o'clock and then moving it down again.

    Are you sure you are seeing that same back accel pickup in those cases? It is true that if you hold the direction you are passing too long, you are then asking the next player you take control of to then move in that direction, so most people pass and if they want that player to stay still, release their left stick. Otherwise, if people did want to receive that puck and keep skating, there would be a delay for them.

    There are also forward accel pickups that can trigger in those cases if they receive the puck cleanly where they can get their feet moving before/as they are receiving the puck (so would be curious if those are the ones you are referring to in your experience) but I also tested those cases as well and they abort correctly as soon as you let go of the left stick or change it's direction.

    Yes, anybody that plays 1v1 modes or offline for 5 minutes will see animations like this 100 times a game just trying to pass. These animations are absolutey killing gameplay. They mess up the flow of the game because they trigger while I’m making my first pass, and then it makes touch passing literally impossible because i can’t pre-aim my 2nd pass, unless i literally eant my guy to stand completely still. Not only is that not a good hockey play, but it’s an absolute chore on the controller to constantly aim a pass, quick let go, aim another pass just so I can have complete controll of my players wihout the game taking over and moving for me...

    These animations are doing nothing but destroying quick, creative puck movement that was once possible in this series. These along with your SPP in open-ice that trigger randomly (and usually end up causing a GA not a favorable play will for the puck carrier due to the herky/jerky vaccum effect that happens when they trigger) are absolutely killing immersion for users.

    I want to be in-control of my guy. I don’t want you playing the game for me, I don’t want my guy to laterally accelerate 9 steps simply because i was skating towards the puck, I just want to be able to control my guy.

    If you can read these forums and not understand that these animations and your skating engine are 99% of the reason people complain on these boards, then idk what to tell you. This game is getting less and less fun and SPP and TPS are the undisputed king and queen of most people’s gripes.

    Take these scripted animations out, let people actually play the game without the game taking over half of their movements, and figure out a way to make elite hockey players be able to face the puck like any average 10 year old can do, and you’ll start seeing an unbelivable wave of new players to this series.

    It really isn’t rocket science to figure out what the community wants. Look at the forums for 5 seconds, and you’ll see a pretty common denominator (Hint: Skating).
  • Happens to me a lot. Seems to be a TPS issue. Its second nature for me to grab the VC control and force this upon myself. You can detect it coming and the only real option is to react as fast as possible to dump the puck, thats if it responds.

    What bothers me, and I have no clue if its true or not because I haven't taken the time to confirm it - it feels like if you hit VC before or during a pass, the receiving player is almost guaranteed to enter animation.

    I gather some people have figured out how to avoid this as I'll play some people who have fluid motions and appear to have excellent control of their players at all times. They will work me with fluid passing and movement all around the top of the zone, where I was once dominant and I'll struggle all game long to make anything happen moving the puck back to the point.

  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member

    Yes, anybody that plays 1v1 modes or offline for 5 minutes will see animations like this 100 times a game just trying to pass. These animations are absolutey killing gameplay. They mess up the flow of the game because they trigger while I’m making my first pass, and then it makes touch passing literally impossible because i can’t pre-aim my 2nd pass, unless i literally eant my guy to stand completely still. Not only is that not a good hockey play, but it’s an absolute chore on the controller to constantly aim a pass, quick let go, aim another pass just so I can have complete controll of my players wihout the game taking over and moving for me...

    Are you saying you can't aim one touch passes? I aim them all the time as it's an incredibly useful ability.

  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited April 2018
    name23424 wrote: »
    Happens to me a lot. Seems to be a TPS issue. Its second nature for me to grab the VC control and force this upon myself. You can detect it coming and the only real option is to react as fast as possible to dump the puck, thats if it responds.

    What bothers me, and I have no clue if its true or not because I haven't taken the time to confirm it - it feels like if you hit VC before or during a pass, the receiving player is almost guaranteed to enter animation.

    I gather some people have figured out how to avoid this as I'll play some people who have fluid motions and appear to have excellent control of their players at all times. They will work me with fluid passing and movement all around the top of the zone, where I was once dominant and I'll struggle all game long to make anything happen moving the puck back to the point.

    Out of curiosity, if you are pressing VC for the upcoming receiver and pressing away from the pass, what other than doing a backwards skating pickup are you looking for? And/or if you are holding VC and not moving the left stick, what other than a strafe or pivot pickup to face the VC target upon pickup are you looking for? If you don't want to control your facing based on the VC target as you are receiving a pass, you probably don't want to be pressing VC.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Yes, anybody that plays 1v1 modes or offline for 5 minutes will see animations like this 100 times a game just trying to pass. These animations are absolutey killing gameplay. They mess up the flow of the game because they trigger while I’m making my first pass, and then it makes touch passing literally impossible because i can’t pre-aim my 2nd pass, unless i literally eant my guy to stand completely still. Not only is that not a good hockey play, but it’s an absolute chore on the controller to constantly aim a pass, quick let go, aim another pass just so I can have complete controll of my players wihout the game taking over and moving for me...

    These animations are doing nothing but destroying quick, creative puck movement that was once possible in this series. These along with your SPP in open-ice that trigger randomly (and usually end up causing a GA not a favorable play will for the puck carrier due to the herky/jerky vaccum effect that happens when they trigger) are absolutely killing immersion for users.

    I want to be in-control of my guy. I don’t want you playing the game for me, I don’t want my guy to laterally accelerate 9 steps simply because i was skating towards the puck, I just want to be able to control my guy.

    If you can read these forums and not understand that these animations and your skating engine are 99% of the reason people complain on these boards, then idk what to tell you. This game is getting less and less fun and SPP and TPS are the undisputed king and queen of most people’s gripes.

    Take these scripted animations out, let people actually play the game without the game taking over half of their movements, and figure out a way to make elite hockey players be able to face the puck like any average 10 year old can do, and you’ll start seeing an unbelivable wave of new players to this series.

    It really isn’t rocket science to figure out what the community wants. Look at the forums for 5 seconds, and you’ll see a pretty common denominator (Hint: Skating).

    Thanks for the feedback. Pickups shouldn't hinder your ability to one touch pass. If you are pressing it before you get it, the player should blend into the pass. If the player is forced to have to strafe over to stay square, they would have been either not reaching that puck or having to receive it on their backhand so you wouldn't have been able to get a strong one touch pass in those cases either but if they get a pass that they can receive on their forehand or transition quickly to a pass, they should be able to one touch pass no problem. When I was testing the branch out window for the back accel pickup, I was snapping the puck around the zone in a powerplay type setup and didn't run into issues if I didn't manually request a back accel pickup. The more accurate your initial pass, the easier the next pass will be for sure.

    What you mention about having to let go of your controller being a chore, that is one of the things where we need to allow control. We can't assume you want to pass and not want to skate so we need to just listen to the inputs and do what the player asks. We can change the timing on how quick you switch to the upcoming player and wait longer which may help people such as yourself in the cases you mentioned but then other players will say we didn't give them control early enough to skate into a puck or get moving in a new direction to avoid a hit, or get skating or moving to the next spot as early as they should be able to. We would rather leave all of that up to the players intentions and not to the ai whenever possible.

    And definitely agree that when making a hockey game, our prime area to always improve will always be skating.
  • llamaverox
    31 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    @EA Dev the issue for me is that players don't skate like NHL players. How the guy revieving the puck stutter steps instead of gliding backwards quickly. Which speed skating backwards with the puck is something you all should look into. We are much to slow in doing so. Would really help out gameplay. As instead of continuing the play we are stuck in animations when an actual NHL player would be able to see the situation and react quickly as they are professionals with intense reaction time.
  • kitchener_boy
    354 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    Thats nice that you come on NHL DEV to try and figure this out by talking to us. Could the issue be with having a middle man like Sony or Microsoft server interupting connections?. or is it the EAST WEST coast thing?.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    llamaverox wrote: »
    @EA Dev the issue for me is that players don't skate like NHL players. How the guy revieving the puck stutter steps instead of gliding backwards quickly. Which speed skating backwards with the puck is something you all should look into. We are much to slow in doing so. Would really help out gameplay. As instead of continuing the play we are stuck in animations when an actual NHL player would be able to see the situation and react quickly as they are professionals with intense reaction time.

    An NHL player could receive that puck in a glide backwards, or while accelerating backwards as he has done so I don't think it is a this or that scenario. By design, it depends what the Player asks for. However, as mentioned in my first post, you should be able to abort that back accel pickup and can't like you can with others. To avoid this, you wouldn't want to ask for a back accel pickup in the fist place but even if triggered accidentally (i.e. pressing VC by mistake or holding the left stick too long) we would still by design want a player to be able to exit out as fast as you would be able to in real life and that is why I appreciated getting the video in the first place to shed light on that. Since I only get that back accel when I deliberately ask for it, I hadn't personally tried to abort it mid stride before and hadn't seen it reported this specifically until this clip.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Thats nice that you come on NHL DEV to try and figure this out by talking to us. Could the issue be with having a middle man like Sony or Microsoft server interupting connections?. or is it the EAST WEST coast thing?.

    I guess it depends what scenario you are looking at. Anything is possible which is why it is good to get the most details as possible within a problem report all the way down to a persons hardware and connection information when dealing with online gameplay. However, in this particular case, I don't think it is anything more than not being able to branch out of that back accel pickup earlier. The other part about if the pickup should have triggered in the first place has become more subjective as it was said that VC wasn't pressed but I haven't been able to repro that case yet. Something we will still look into more. From what I can see, the back accel pickups fire when they hit their requested trigger of being at a very low speed/stopped and holding VC and pressing away from the pass, which if a player wants to do an action like that, makes the most sense for the controls. However, again, they need the ability to exit out if they change their mind.
  • kezz123
    653 posts Member
    edited April 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Thats nice that you come on NHL DEV to try and figure this out by talking to us. Could the issue be with having a middle man like Sony or Microsoft server interupting connections?. or is it the EAST WEST coast thing?.

    I guess it depends what scenario you are looking at. Anything is possible which is why it is good to get the most details as possible within a problem report all the way down to a persons hardware and connection information when dealing with online gameplay. However, in this particular case, I don't think it is anything more than not being able to branch out of that back accel pickup earlier. The other part about if the pickup should have triggered in the first place has become more subjective as it was said that VC wasn't pressed but I haven't been able to repro that case yet. Something we will still look into more. From what I can see, the back accel pickups fire when they hit their requested trigger of being at a very low speed/stopped and holding VC and pressing away from the pass, which if a player wants to do an action like that, makes the most sense for the controls. However, again, they need the ability to exit out if they change their mind.

    There is more to it than that though.
    Fatmanlag makes these types of situation either happen more frequently or they just seem amplified greatly just like trying to do a quick turn with and without fatmanlag is a HUGE difference.
    Turning without fatmanlag feels like a car on cement. Turning with fatmanlag feels like a car on snow/ice
    It takes way longer to turn and you feel almost as if you are getting dragged to the outside due to lack of grip. I actually always described it as feeling like im driving a garbage truck...slow sluggish and cant turn fast.

    When it comes to this specific backpedal issue it just seems to happen way more often. Either because the reaction time to correct the animation is delayed or because the movement backwards is amplified. Im not sure and its hard to explain but although this is certainly an issue in both laggy and non laggy environment, its not nearly as frustrating outside of fatmanlag scenario.

  • @NHLDev Given how much of an impact pressing VC can have on how players move and react to puck pickups it would probably be helpful for us and you if future versions of EA NHL would include an indicator in the instant replay functionality ( similar to the analog stick indicators ) to let us know when the button is pressed.

  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    @NHLDev Given how much of an impact pressing VC can have on how players move and react to puck pickups it would probably be helpful for us and you if future versions of EA NHL would include an indicator in the instant replay functionality ( similar to the analog stick indicators ) to let us know when the button is pressed.
    Agreed. On our debug builds, we can see every input on the frame as well as the exact direction of the left and right sticks which is very helpful. The outward facing vis that shows in the replay is decent from a high level but it isn't as one to one perfect all the time and obviously lacks a lot of the buttons. Would really help in situations like this for sure.

    Hard for something like that to take priority over other issues but direct function issues are easier to just plan and get done than something that is more subjective that may never be 100 percent so sometimes we can get tasks like that in the mix.



  • NHLDev wrote: »
    name23424 wrote: »
    Happens to me a lot. Seems to be a TPS issue. Its second nature for me to grab the VC control and force this upon myself. You can detect it coming and the only real option is to react as fast as possible to dump the puck, thats if it responds.

    What bothers me, and I have no clue if its true or not because I haven't taken the time to confirm it - it feels like if you hit VC before or during a pass, the receiving player is almost guaranteed to enter animation.

    I gather some people have figured out how to avoid this as I'll play some people who have fluid motions and appear to have excellent control of their players at all times. They will work me with fluid passing and movement all around the top of the zone, where I was once dominant and I'll struggle all game long to make anything happen moving the puck back to the point.

    Out of curiosity, if you are pressing VC for the upcoming receiver and pressing away from the pass, what other than doing a backwards skating pickup are you looking for? And/or if you are holding VC and not moving the left stick, what other than a strafe or pivot pickup to face the VC target upon pickup are you looking for? If you don't want to control your facing based on the VC target as you are receiving a pass, you probably don't want to be pressing VC.

    I think what I'm doing is pivoting a bit for the passer, in my head I'm figuring a cleaner, more accurate pass hitting VC and pointing my passer at the receiving player. And for the receiver, hitting VC to try getting better positioning to collect that pass.

    I forget either from habit, or freaking out a bit about a forced animation around the blueline. Its easy to forget less is better with the controls when it comes to sending and receiving passes.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited April 2018
    name23424 wrote: »

    I think what I'm doing is pivoting a bit for the passer, in my head I'm figuring a cleaner, more accurate pass hitting VC and pointing my passer at the receiving player. And for the receiver, hitting VC to try getting better positioning to collect that pass.

    I forget either from habit, or freaking out a bit about a forced animation around the blueline. Its easy to forget less is better with the controls when it comes to sending and receiving passes.

    Fair enough. It all depends on what you want really. If the pass is off to their backhand side, then holding VC will allow them to strafe over and keep the reception on their forehand rather than having to reach across body or turn to receive it. If you hold VC and press away, they can do a backward accelerating pickup and if you press in a new direction without VC, they can try and receive the puck while accelerating in that new direction but it all depends where you are trying to go relative to where the puck came in.

    Also, if it is an accurate pass to a stationary receiver, without input they will play a pivoting pickup to face their upcoming VC target so you don't need to press VC for them to receive it and stand still and hold that solid ground (i.e. when passing to more stationary positioned players on the PP). So less is definitely more if you want them to stay still but if you want them to do something else, there are controls that are respected for that and coincide with their functions around facing or movement direction.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.