right.... but, is the concern / issue with disconnects or "fat man lag".
Lol, no wonder we have a hard time finding common ground then, I was talking about Fatman lag. I "never" get disconnected from the servers other than for maintenance and during outages which are few and far between.
The only reason I posted in this thread, was because you were freeing EA of any responsibility for what happens during a 1v1 game on the grounds that the clients are communicating P2P.
I think such a statement ends up in the way, for a good discussion on what might cause these problems. Personally, I couldn't care less who is to blame. I just want to contribute to figuring out why it isn't working the way we all want it to.
If he's able to record a video of him playing with controller and tv in same frame for a few minutes, then I will believe him.
right.... but, is the concern / issue with disconnects or "fat man lag".
define the problem.
On my end I don't have the problems with disconnects as the other guy mentions, but the fat-man lag is very prevalent much of the time for me and leads to a horrible experience. I don't need to have things disconnect to change the quality of play here as it happens very randomly anyways.
ok yeah, the reason I brought that up is that *IF* the actual game traffic is NOT going thru the passive server on peer 2 peer (i.e. HUT and VS) and the passive server is there for AAA (authentication, etc.) and for tracking of accounts / games / wins then the passive server should not impact fat man lag...
right.... but, is the concern / issue with disconnects or "fat man lag".
define the problem.
I haven't experienced "fat man lag" so I can't relate to that. The discussion was about blaming EA's servers for disconnects.
Lol, no wonder we have a hard time finding common ground then, I was talking about Fatman lag. I "never" get disconnected from the servers other than for maintenance and during outages which are few and far between.
The only reason I posted in this thread, was because you were freeing EA of any responsibility for what happens during a 1v1 game on the grounds that the clients are communicating P2P.
I think such a statement ends up in the way, for a good discussion on what might cause these problems. Personally, I couldn't care less who is to blame. I just want to contribute to figuring out why it isn't working the way we all want it to.
Putting blame where it belongs contributes to figuring out why it isn't working the way you want it to though. If you blame EA then you wait for them to resolve it. If you don't you work on it yourself and potentially fix it.
Putting blame where it belongs contributes to figuring out why it isn't working the way you want it to though. If you blame EA then you wait for them to resolve it. If you don't you work on it yourself and potentially fix it.
That's a very "digital" way to look at things. You're basically saying either it's my fault or it's EA's fault. And that if we could figure that crucial question out we would solve it all.
I've been working with fault-finding for longer than I like to think of, and my view has changed from the one you have to something i find a lot more constructive.
If we could figure out why things aren't working we can argue about who was to blame afterward, (if we're even interested in that question anymore).
I think this is hard for you to accept the concept of Fatman lag since you don't experience any of it yourself. I should add that I do believe you. I can watch people on twitch, whenever I want, that has no sign of Fatman lag what so ever.
When people who have moved houses several times, went through the "reinstall everything and open your ports" with EA support. Bought themselves hefty gaming modems and forbidden everyone else to use any bandwidth comes on here and reports their problems. You're not only rude but you're also in the way of finding a solution when you go "chances are excellent the fault is on your side".
Try and listen to what people are telling you and look for something else than what can be wrong with their modems/routers. That approach has been tried for years, to no avail.
Putting blame where it belongs contributes to figuring out why it isn't working the way you want it to though. If you blame EA then you wait for them to resolve it. If you don't you work on it yourself and potentially fix it.
That's a very "digital" way to look at things. You're basically saying either it's my fault or it's EA's fault. And that if we could figure that crucial question out we would solve it all.
I've been working with fault-finding for longer than I like to think of, and my view has changed from the one you have to something i find a lot more constructive.
If we could figure out why things aren't working we can argue about who was to blame afterward, (if we're even interested in that question anymore).
I think this is hard for you to accept the concept of Fatman lag since you don't experience any of it yourself. I should add that I do believe you. I can watch people on twitch, whenever I want, that has no sign of Fatman lag what so ever.
When people who have moved houses several times, went through the "reinstall everything and open your ports" with EA support. Bought themselves hefty gaming modems and forbidden everyone else to use any bandwidth comes on here and reports their problems. You're not only rude but you're also in the way of finding a solution when you go "chances are excellent the fault is on your side".
Try and listen to what people are telling you and look for something else than what can be wrong with their modems/routers. That approach has been tried for years, to no avail.
I most definitely am listening. When I hear about people having issues with EASHL connections, that's different. You're on EA's servers so you definitely can't rule that out. When it comes to P2P connections, that's a different story. I'm not saying there is absolutely nothing that EA can do to improve things, but they aren't that much a part of the equation when you're disconnecting mid-game.
I can totally understand why someone would feel like it's on their end when they've moved several times and tried different equipment. I myself have moved several times over the last 10 years. I've had issues with my connection at various times as well. I was just always able to solve it. Except for captain lag in EASHL a couple years ago. That was on EA's end and was resolved.
I agree with what you're saying though. Not trying to be combative and just say that EA is never to blame. I just feel like when it comes to P2P connections, there isn't much you can blame on them though. I'm not a network engineer either so I could also be wrong. I'm also not saying "fat man lag" doesn't exist. Maybe it's real, maybe it's something people fall back on as an excuse for losing. My point was though that when you automatically blame EA you don't look for any other possible resolutions. It's just in my nature to exhaust all options on my end first. It seems many have done that already so I can't blame them for assuming the issue isn't theirs.
Not trying to be combative and just say that EA is never to blame. I just feel like when it comes to P2P connections, there isn't much you can blame on them though.
The obvious thing that EA has responsibility for when it comes to P2P games is matchmaking. The single biggest driver of lag is the distance between opponents - even if you have a pristine connection, games against opponents that are far away from you are going to have a higher ping, and be more likely to lag, than games against opponents that are close to you.
The reason P2P connections have traditionally been preferred for 1v1 games (like fighting games) is that they allowed to you to connect directly to people near you, rather than having both of you have to route your connections through an intermediary server. But this only works if you're consistently being matched up against people who are near you. And EA's screwed-up matchmaking algorithm means you often are not.
I live in NYC. That means there are tons of people who play this game living within a few hundred miles of me. I should essentially never be matched up against anyone outside of this region. But I'll regularly go through stretches where I'm matched up against European teams, teams from western Canada, etc. Connections in those games are almost always yellow or even red from the start, and when they're not (which means I actually start the game) they lag. This is just absurd. I shouldn't be matched with these teams at all.
Even more ridiculous is that the algorithm will often put me into a game with a red connection right away. In other words, even if it's only been searching for a few seconds, it'll put me into a red-connection game. That's nonsense. The only time I should ever be put into a game with a red connection (which I'm just going to quit out of) is if the matchmaking engine has searched all available opponents for 45 seconds (or whatever the maximum search time is). The only time I should be put into a game immediately is if the opponent is near me and the connection is solid green.
The fact that the game will instead put me into a red connection while barely investigating the search space shows how flawed the matchmaking algorithm is, and is absolutely something EA can be blamed for.
I am also not paying EA ever again .
They have let my favorite game fall to the point where I turn it off angry instead of happy as video games were meant to be.
I can‘t understand any more how to solve my lag issues only with this game and neither can EA techs so I have no choice but to quit.
The obvious thing that EA has responsibility for when it comes to P2P games is matchmaking. The single biggest driver of lag is the distance between opponents - even if you have a pristine connection, games against opponents that are far away from you are going to have a higher ping, and be more likely to lag, than games against opponents that are close to you.
The reason P2P connections have traditionally been preferred for 1v1 games (like fighting games) is that they allowed to you to connect directly to people near you, rather than having both of you have to route your connections through an intermediary server. But this only works if you're consistently being matched up against people who are near you. And EA's screwed-up matchmaking algorithm means you often are not.
I live in NYC. That means there are tons of people who play this game living within a few hundred miles of me. I should essentially never be matched up against anyone outside of this region. But I'll regularly go through stretches where I'm matched up against European teams, teams from western Canada, etc. Connections in those games are almost always yellow or even red from the start, and when they're not (which means I actually start the game) they lag. This is just absurd. I shouldn't be matched with these teams at all.
Even more ridiculous is that the algorithm will often put me into a game with a red connection right away. In other words, even if it's only been searching for a few seconds, it'll put me into a red-connection game. That's nonsense. The only time I should ever be put into a game with a red connection (which I'm just going to quit out of) is if the matchmaking engine has searched all available opponents for 45 seconds (or whatever the maximum search time is). The only time I should be put into a game immediately is if the opponent is near me and the connection is solid green.
The fact that the game will instead put me into a red connection while barely investigating the search space shows how flawed the matchmaking algorithm is, and is absolutely something EA can be blamed for.
I've been thinking along the same lines. Why can't I choose "Only good connections"?
The only way I see, that they could check this, is to pair me with an available opponent and send pings, if not good then disconnect us, pair us both with other people, send new pings and so on.
On top of that, this would have to fit in with whatever other matchmaking algorithm they have running. And we do need some kind of algorithm to try and match us on our right level. I'm guessing this would slow down matchmaking too much?
What I think they could do, is to keep track of my connection to players I've already been matched up with. Just fill up a table on my console, with player names and quality of connection. This would give every player a very accurate personal list of players to avoid, that the matchmaking could utilize.
I don't know if it would work, maybe I'm hoping for too much?
If this can't be automated, maybe we could have a checkbox implemented in the post match menu, enabling us to easily block players?
I absolutely agree that location should be weighted over rank. If you get matched up with someone too far away, any skill is out the window anyway.
Caveat: My experience is with EASHL but I'd be surprised if the general philosophy behind matchmaking is wildly different in 1v1 modes.
I've noticed that in NHL 18 in particular EA is prioritizing matching up teams quickly at the expense of finding more equitable matches. Playing EASHL 3s we rarely wait more than ten seconds to find a match. But we're constantly being matched up with teams either several divisions below us or teams where the player's CR is roughly half of ours.
If the priority of getting into matches quickly is the same for 1v1 modes I'd be shocked if they want to take the time to account for connection quality. They should, but I suspect the priority is getting players into a match fast and all other considerations are secondary.
Caveat: My experience is with EASHL but I'd be surprised if the general philosophy behind matchmaking is wildly different in 1v1 modes.
I've noticed that in NHL 18 in particular EA is prioritizing matching up teams quickly at the expense of finding more equitable matches. Playing EASHL 3s we rarely wait more than ten seconds to find a match. But we're constantly being matched up with teams either several divisions below us or teams where the player's CR is roughly half of ours.
If the priority of getting into matches quickly is the same for 1v1 modes I'd be shocked if they want to take the time to account for connection quality. They should, but I suspect the priority is getting players into a match fast and all other considerations are secondary.
If the priority of getting into matches quickly is the same for 1v1 modes I'd be shocked if they want to take the time to account for connection quality. They should, but I suspect the priority is getting players into a match fast and all other considerations are secondary.
Well, there is no other explanation for why I'm being thrown into red-connection matches within a few seconds of the search starting, other than that they're putting getting people into a match quickly above all else.
Which makes no sense, since most good players won't play on anything other than a solid green connection, so putting them into a bad-connection match just means people back out and have to start the search over again, all of which takes a lot longer than if they just put you into a green-connection match to begin with.
The game probably matches you with an opponent within your skill level regardless of location. So sadly if the only available player at that time is in Germany, well have fun from the East Coast.
Replies
If he's able to record a video of him playing with controller and tv in same frame for a few minutes, then I will believe him.
Putting blame where it belongs contributes to figuring out why it isn't working the way you want it to though. If you blame EA then you wait for them to resolve it. If you don't you work on it yourself and potentially fix it.
I've been working with fault-finding for longer than I like to think of, and my view has changed from the one you have to something i find a lot more constructive.
If we could figure out why things aren't working we can argue about who was to blame afterward, (if we're even interested in that question anymore).
I think this is hard for you to accept the concept of Fatman lag since you don't experience any of it yourself. I should add that I do believe you. I can watch people on twitch, whenever I want, that has no sign of Fatman lag what so ever.
When people who have moved houses several times, went through the "reinstall everything and open your ports" with EA support. Bought themselves hefty gaming modems and forbidden everyone else to use any bandwidth comes on here and reports their problems. You're not only rude but you're also in the way of finding a solution when you go "chances are excellent the fault is on your side".
Try and listen to what people are telling you and look for something else than what can be wrong with their modems/routers. That approach has been tried for years, to no avail.
I most definitely am listening. When I hear about people having issues with EASHL connections, that's different. You're on EA's servers so you definitely can't rule that out. When it comes to P2P connections, that's a different story. I'm not saying there is absolutely nothing that EA can do to improve things, but they aren't that much a part of the equation when you're disconnecting mid-game.
I can totally understand why someone would feel like it's on their end when they've moved several times and tried different equipment. I myself have moved several times over the last 10 years. I've had issues with my connection at various times as well. I was just always able to solve it. Except for captain lag in EASHL a couple years ago. That was on EA's end and was resolved.
I agree with what you're saying though. Not trying to be combative and just say that EA is never to blame. I just feel like when it comes to P2P connections, there isn't much you can blame on them though. I'm not a network engineer either so I could also be wrong. I'm also not saying "fat man lag" doesn't exist. Maybe it's real, maybe it's something people fall back on as an excuse for losing. My point was though that when you automatically blame EA you don't look for any other possible resolutions. It's just in my nature to exhaust all options on my end first. It seems many have done that already so I can't blame them for assuming the issue isn't theirs.
The obvious thing that EA has responsibility for when it comes to P2P games is matchmaking. The single biggest driver of lag is the distance between opponents - even if you have a pristine connection, games against opponents that are far away from you are going to have a higher ping, and be more likely to lag, than games against opponents that are close to you.
The reason P2P connections have traditionally been preferred for 1v1 games (like fighting games) is that they allowed to you to connect directly to people near you, rather than having both of you have to route your connections through an intermediary server. But this only works if you're consistently being matched up against people who are near you. And EA's screwed-up matchmaking algorithm means you often are not.
I live in NYC. That means there are tons of people who play this game living within a few hundred miles of me. I should essentially never be matched up against anyone outside of this region. But I'll regularly go through stretches where I'm matched up against European teams, teams from western Canada, etc. Connections in those games are almost always yellow or even red from the start, and when they're not (which means I actually start the game) they lag. This is just absurd. I shouldn't be matched with these teams at all.
Even more ridiculous is that the algorithm will often put me into a game with a red connection right away. In other words, even if it's only been searching for a few seconds, it'll put me into a red-connection game. That's nonsense. The only time I should ever be put into a game with a red connection (which I'm just going to quit out of) is if the matchmaking engine has searched all available opponents for 45 seconds (or whatever the maximum search time is). The only time I should be put into a game immediately is if the opponent is near me and the connection is solid green.
The fact that the game will instead put me into a red connection while barely investigating the search space shows how flawed the matchmaking algorithm is, and is absolutely something EA can be blamed for.
They have let my favorite game fall to the point where I turn it off angry instead of happy as video games were meant to be.
I can‘t understand any more how to solve my lag issues only with this game and neither can EA techs so I have no choice but to quit.
I've been thinking along the same lines. Why can't I choose "Only good connections"?
The only way I see, that they could check this, is to pair me with an available opponent and send pings, if not good then disconnect us, pair us both with other people, send new pings and so on.
On top of that, this would have to fit in with whatever other matchmaking algorithm they have running. And we do need some kind of algorithm to try and match us on our right level. I'm guessing this would slow down matchmaking too much?
What I think they could do, is to keep track of my connection to players I've already been matched up with. Just fill up a table on my console, with player names and quality of connection. This would give every player a very accurate personal list of players to avoid, that the matchmaking could utilize.
I don't know if it would work, maybe I'm hoping for too much?
If this can't be automated, maybe we could have a checkbox implemented in the post match menu, enabling us to easily block players?
I absolutely agree that location should be weighted over rank. If you get matched up with someone too far away, any skill is out the window anyway.
Why can't NHL do this?
I've noticed that in NHL 18 in particular EA is prioritizing matching up teams quickly at the expense of finding more equitable matches. Playing EASHL 3s we rarely wait more than ten seconds to find a match. But we're constantly being matched up with teams either several divisions below us or teams where the player's CR is roughly half of ours.
If the priority of getting into matches quickly is the same for 1v1 modes I'd be shocked if they want to take the time to account for connection quality. They should, but I suspect the priority is getting players into a match fast and all other considerations are secondary.
Quite possible. Who knows...
Well, there is no other explanation for why I'm being thrown into red-connection matches within a few seconds of the search starting, other than that they're putting getting people into a match quickly above all else.
Which makes no sense, since most good players won't play on anything other than a solid green connection, so putting them into a bad-connection match just means people back out and have to start the search over again, all of which takes a lot longer than if they just put you into a green-connection match to begin with.