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Online Play is 50/50

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Maybe it is just me, I wanted to see if anyone else shared this same sentiment.

It seems like this year's NHL, skill matters less. When I play online I hover around .500 no matter what. I am not a great NHL player but I usually have a winning record online. This year it seems like I lose to players I know I am better than, I beat players I know are better than me etc, more so than past years. Anyone else notice this?

Replies

  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited May 2018
    Maybe it is just me, I wanted to see if anyone else shared this same sentiment.

    It seems like this year's NHL, skill matters less. When I play online I hover around .500 no matter what. I am not a great NHL player but I usually have a winning record online. This year it seems like I lose to players I know I am better than, I beat players I know are better than me etc, more so than past years. Anyone else notice this?

    I have seen this perception, especially when players recall back to playing in years past but it isn't apples to apples due to changes in matchmaking to find you opponents at your skill level.

    We have made a lot of improvements to matchmaking and it gets a bit subjective when you assess the skill of your opponent during a game. It is a decent barometer but a player could have a bad period which leads you to believe they aren't very good and then they come into their own in the latter half of the game for example. Or it may be the subtle things they do right to succeed overall.

    When you look at your last 10 games, I would be curious how your personal CR (Competitive Rating) and your opponents matchup relative to the scores and outcomes of your games.

    It is much easier to go .500 this year when you are constantly matched up with opponents that are meant to be evently skilled with you. However, due to the multiple combinations with matchmaking, a certain search may not have enough options for you that will give a chance for a perfect match in your opponent so you will see outlier games where you match up with opponents further above or below you relative to the average games you play. When you play those games above higher rated opponents though and are successful, your CR will be adjusted accordingly and you will then be playing better competition until you settle in again to where you align against the overall community.

    The more games you play over time, the more accurate that rating should be.
  • nickels55
    177 posts Member
    For me the 50/50 for online play is 50% of the time the game freezes trying to get a match-up, and 50% of the time I get a face-off loop. I should record trying to play a match sometime, usually the process takes about 15 minutes to get a versus game that lasts longer than 30 seconds. What is it with the silence on this problem?
  • Maybe it is just me, I wanted to see if anyone else shared this same sentiment.

    It seems like this year's NHL, skill matters less. When I play online I hover around .500 no matter what. I am not a great NHL player but I usually have a winning record online. This year it seems like I lose to players I know I am better than, I beat players I know are better than me etc, more so than past years. Anyone else notice this?

    Yes I agree.But Actually I don't mind.I find it more realistic.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    For me 50/50 means half my games I get 0xp due to server error...
  • name23424
    80 posts Member
    It's all but a guarantee I spank my first 2 opponents. Anything after that it seems my opponents are more on my level.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Maybe it is just me, I wanted to see if anyone else shared this same sentiment.

    It seems like this year's NHL, skill matters less. When I play online I hover around .500 no matter what. I am not a great NHL player but I usually have a winning record online. This year it seems like I lose to players I know I am better than, I beat players I know are better than me etc, more so than past years. Anyone else notice this?

    I have seen this perception, especially when players recall back to playing in years past but it isn't apples to apples due to changes in matchmaking to find you opponents at your skill level.

    We have made a lot of improvements to matchmaking and it gets a bit subjective when you assess the skill of your opponent during a game. It is a decent barometer but a player could have a bad period which leads you to believe they aren't very good and then they come into their own in the latter half of the game for example. Or it may be the subtle things they do right to succeed overall.

    When you look at your last 10 games, I would be curious how your personal CR (Competitive Rating) and your opponents matchup relative to the scores and outcomes of your games.

    It is much easier to go .500 this year when you are constantly matched up with opponents that are meant to be evently skilled with you. However, due to the multiple combinations with matchmaking, a certain search may not have enough options for you that will give a chance for a perfect match in your opponent so you will see outlier games where you match up with opponents further above or below you relative to the average games you play. When you play those games above higher rated opponents though and are successful, your CR will be adjusted accordingly and you will then be playing better competition until you settle in again to where you align against the overall community.

    The more games you play over time, the more accurate that rating should be.

    I haven't posted in this forum for a very long time, however, I just so happened to view this post and see a very transparent response. @NHLDev your input is helpful. The CR system has not been very well explained and somewhat daunting. Does the same algorithm apply to all game modes (VS, HUT, EASHL)? Can you elaborate on the computational decision-making that determines a match (i.e. NAT type, "CR", region, IPv4/IPv6, etc)? Does the same apply to xbox & PS?
  • nickels55
    177 posts Member
    What happens if I never play Versus competitive games? How am I ranked when the majority (like 99.5%) of my time is spent playing casual games? My competitive record is literally 1-1-1. I do have hundreds of unranked games online in casual mode. It feels like I can play against scrubs or masters in casual, and that the skill level is all over the place.
  • This brand needs a competitor

  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    19KRAKA74 wrote: »
    This brand needs a competitor

    No it doesn't.
  • I don't like all the hand-holding in the match-making in this game (and all games nowadays really).

    Trying to protect people from failure is one of the main reasons our entire society has turned into a bunch of frightened, knee-knocking softies. The only way to improve or get better at anything is to compete against better players. That means you are going to get your teeth kicked in a few times as you learn the nuances of things and improve. That's life.

    If you are an elite team in the NHL, does the league say "Ok, we have determined based on your first 20 games that you are a top 5 team, so you only get to play against the other top 4 teams"? Of course not, that's silly.

    If you don't want to get smashed, get better. Put in the work. Take your lumps. The feeling of accomplishment at the end will far outweigh the pain of the beatings you took to get there.

    All this "safe space" stuff is killing our society.

    Put everyone into 1 giant queue in your region and you play who you play. Don't like losing? Get better.
    “If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have the key to the universe.” - Nikola Tesla

  • I don't like all the hand-holding in the match-making in this game (and all games nowadays really).

    Trying to protect people from failure is one of the main reasons our entire society has turned into a bunch of frightened, knee-knocking softies. The only way to improve or get better at anything is to compete against better players. That means you are going to get your teeth kicked in a few times as you learn the nuances of things and improve. That's life.

    If you are an elite team in the NHL, does the league say "Ok, we have determined based on your first 20 games that you are a top 5 team, so you only get to play against the other top 4 teams"? Of course not, that's silly.

    If you don't want to get smashed, get better. Put in the work. Take your lumps. The feeling of accomplishment at the end will far outweigh the pain of the beatings you took to get there.

    All this "safe space" stuff is killing our society.

    Put everyone into 1 giant queue in your region and you play who you play. Don't like losing? Get better.

    Nah man. Good players shouldn't get matched up with bad players. I don't find it enjoyable to play someone who struggles to play the game. I think the current system is just fine for matching up players with similar skill. And not everyone has a win at all cost mentality.
  • If you are an elite team in the NHL, does the league say "Ok, we have determined based on your first 20 games that you are a top 5 team, so you only get to play against the other top 4 teams"? Of course not, that's silly.

    That is exactly what the NHL is (any hockey league, not just NHL). Similar skilled players play in the same league. You don't see NHL teams playing ECHL teams. You don't see CHL teams play Jr. B teams.

    I actually want EA to show how far outside of my rank or "CR" the search is searching for at any given time because I only want to play top guys. It's no fun for me to win 6-0.


  • B_Bunny
    893 posts Member
    If you are an elite team in the NHL, does the league say "Ok, we have determined based on your first 20 games that you are a top 5 team, so you only get to play against the other top 4 teams"? Of course not, that's silly.

    That is exactly what the NHL is (any hockey league, not just NHL). Similar skilled players play in the same league. You don't see NHL teams playing ECHL teams. You don't see CHL teams play Jr. B teams.

    I actually want EA to show how far outside of my rank or "CR" the search is searching for at any given time because I only want to play top guys. It's no fun for me to win 6-0.


    Its a double edged sword. If you tighten the CR too much on searches, you will have problems finding games reliably, but the ones you do will be of the most similar skill level.

    On the other hand if you dont want to possibly search for 5, 10 minutes, maybe longer depending on the time of day, youll get matches much faster but the skill level of your opponents will fluctuate up and down more.
    PSN: B-Bunny
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    If you are an elite team in the NHL, does the league say "Ok, we have determined based on your first 20 games that you are a top 5 team, so you only get to play against the other top 4 teams"? Of course not, that's silly.

    That is exactly what the NHL is (any hockey league, not just NHL). Similar skilled players play in the same league. You don't see NHL teams playing ECHL teams. You don't see CHL teams play Jr. B teams.

    I actually want EA to show how far outside of my rank or "CR" the search is searching for at any given time because I only want to play top guys. It's no fun for me to win 6-0.


    Its a double edged sword. If you tighten the CR too much on searches, you will have problems finding games reliably, but the ones you do will be of the most similar skill level.

    On the other hand if you dont want to possibly search for 5, 10 minutes, maybe longer depending on the time of day, youll get matches much faster but the skill level of your opponents will fluctuate up and down more.

    Finding that balance between wait times and even matchups is something that EA has never really managed to get "just right". And it's not entirely their fault. It seems like every year people complain one way or the other and as a result they push the matchup logic too far one way to try to address the complaints.

    This year it's far to balanced towards getting a matchup fast regardless of opponent ranking. It's not unusual for my club to be matched up in 5-10 seconds only to find out at the end of the game our opponents had CRs several hundred less than ours.

    A longer wait to find a better opponent would be nice. Personally I think anything longer than a minute or two us excessive, but finding that balance that works for the most player's is the tricky part.
  • ExSnake01
    466 posts Member
    19KRAKA74 wrote: »
    This brand needs a competitor

    No it doesn't.

    Care to explain why monopolies are a good thing?
  • B-Bunny wrote: »
    If you are an elite team in the NHL, does the league say "Ok, we have determined based on your first 20 games that you are a top 5 team, so you only get to play against the other top 4 teams"? Of course not, that's silly.

    That is exactly what the NHL is (any hockey league, not just NHL). Similar skilled players play in the same league. You don't see NHL teams playing ECHL teams. You don't see CHL teams play Jr. B teams.

    I actually want EA to show how far outside of my rank or "CR" the search is searching for at any given time because I only want to play top guys. It's no fun for me to win 6-0.


    Its a double edged sword. If you tighten the CR too much on searches, you will have problems finding games reliably, but the ones you do will be of the most similar skill level.

    On the other hand if you dont want to possibly search for 5, 10 minutes, maybe longer depending on the time of day, youll get matches much faster but the skill level of your opponents will fluctuate up and down more.

    This is why I want to see the range and everytime it expands, all while searching. This way I can decide when it is too far wide and can reset the search to do it all over. I havnt played versus in a while but on previous gen it would show you everytime the search parametres stretched by level. I would like this for every game mode.
  • That is exactly what the NHL is (any hockey league, not just NHL). Similar skilled players play in the same league. You don't see NHL teams playing ECHL teams. You don't see CHL teams play Jr. B teams.

    Yes, but the NHL, ECHL, and CHL aren't all ranked on the same leaderboards. If you want separate divisions for different skill levels, then that is something totally different that they can maybe add. But for the way things are now, it just doesn't work that way.

    It's no fun for me to win 6-0.

    Of course it is. Who doesn't enjoy winning, and winning big? I think you probably mean, its no fun to lose 6-0. And no, of course it's not. But that's life. If people don't want to lose 6-0, they will be driven to improve. That's how life works. No one will improve by leveling a playing field. I mean, why not just take it a step farther: let's just stop keeping score and get rid of any kind of records, stats, and standings? Everyone who connects via online play is awarded a participation trophy, however, we won't keep track of how many people have acquired so that nobody feels bad.

    Ranked play is COMPETITIVE play. The only object is to defeat your opponent. It's not my job to feel bad for an inferior opponent. It's up to them to improve. Now, they could add a non-competitive mode for people that don't want to win or lose by more than 1 goal, and I would be totally ok with that. But if synthetic parity is what you're looking for, a ranked match mode is probably not where you want to be.
    “If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have the key to the universe.” - Nikola Tesla

  • SpillGal
    336 posts Member
    NHLDev wrote: »
    When you look at your last 10 games, I would be curious how your personal CR (Competitive Rating) and your opponents matchup relative to the scores and outcomes of your games.
    For the most part, the outcome of the games is as you would expect from the ranking. Normally, you are also being matched up to guys really close to your own rank. From that perception, the ranking system is working.
    What I think could be done better is the significance of matches that ends other than expected.
    Example: I have a CR of 500 and beat a guy at 630 I get 9 points, so I am now at 509, Next game I lose against someone who also has 509. then I lose something like 7 points, taking me right back to where I was.
    Meaning that my win against someone waay above me in the ranking, get's nullified by losing a game to someone at my own rank. Same thing if I lose to someone way below me and then beat someone at my own level.
    This makes it really hard to move anywhere in the ranking and the matchup system are amplifying this, by matching you up with people around your own rank. You are seldom being matched outside of your own rank and when you do, the result has little to none effect on your ranking.
    The difference in beating someone with a CR 100 points below you or CR 100 points above you is 2 points. That's too little. If I can beat someone that much better than me, let the CR I get be enough to move me up a bit, so matchmaking will give me harder opponents for a few, where I have a chance to prove that win wasn't a fluke. If I lose to someone that much weaker than me, move me down and force me to prove that accidents could happen to the best.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Maybe it is just me, I wanted to see if anyone else shared this same sentiment.

    It seems like this year's NHL, skill matters less. When I play online I hover around .500 no matter what. I am not a great NHL player but I usually have a winning record online. This year it seems like I lose to players I know I am better than, I beat players I know are better than me etc, more so than past years. Anyone else notice this?

    I have seen this perception, especially when players recall back to playing in years past but it isn't apples to apples due to changes in matchmaking to find you opponents at your skill level.

    We have made a lot of improvements to matchmaking and it gets a bit subjective when you assess the skill of your opponent during a game. It is a decent barometer but a player could have a bad period which leads you to believe they aren't very good and then they come into their own in the latter half of the game for example. Or it may be the subtle things they do right to succeed overall.

    When you look at your last 10 games, I would be curious how your personal CR (Competitive Rating) and your opponents matchup relative to the scores and outcomes of your games.

    It is much easier to go .500 this year when you are constantly matched up with opponents that are meant to be evently skilled with you. However, due to the multiple combinations with matchmaking, a certain search may not have enough options for you that will give a chance for a perfect match in your opponent so you will see outlier games where you match up with opponents further above or below you relative to the average games you play. When you play those games above higher rated opponents though and are successful, your CR will be adjusted accordingly and you will then be playing better competition until you settle in again to where you align against the overall community.

    The more games you play over time, the more accurate that rating should be.

    The OP is probably referring to the countless amount of games lost by a puck going through the pad, or a forced pass making it through 3 people, or a tip from the top of the circle that results in a 3 mph roller still beating your goalie because he’s stuck in an animation.

    TPS has made the skill gap smaller than ever before. It makes your AI so useless when cycling and passing, and the new SPPs even cancel out touch passing! If you fix skating and physics, you’ll win SGOTY without a doubt, but we the community have also been saying that for 5 years now...
  • Workin_OT
    469 posts Member
    That is exactly what the NHL is (any hockey league, not just NHL). Similar skilled players play in the same league. You don't see NHL teams playing ECHL teams. You don't see CHL teams play Jr. B teams.

    Yes, but the NHL, ECHL, and CHL aren't all ranked on the same leaderboards. If you want separate divisions for different skill levels, then that is something totally different that they can maybe add. But for the way things are now, it just doesn't work that way.

    It's no fun for me to win 6-0.

    Of course it is. Who doesn't enjoy winning, and winning big? I think you probably mean, its no fun to lose 6-0. And no, of course it's not. But that's life. If people don't want to lose 6-0, they will be driven to improve. That's how life works. No one will improve by leveling a playing field. I mean, why not just take it a step farther: let's just stop keeping score and get rid of any kind of records, stats, and standings? Everyone who connects via online play is awarded a participation trophy, however, we won't keep track of how many people have acquired so that nobody feels bad.

    Ranked play is COMPETITIVE play. The only object is to defeat your opponent. It's not my job to feel bad for an inferior opponent. It's up to them to improve. Now, they could add a non-competitive mode for people that don't want to win or lose by more than 1 goal, and I would be totally ok with that. But if synthetic parity is what you're looking for, a ranked match mode is probably not where you want to be.

    Your comments in this thread don't really make sense. You are saying that online versus is a competitive environment and players should be prepared to have tough matchups, but your arguments are for making it less competitive by wanting to increase the chance of higher rated players matching with lower rated players..

    You state that you enjoy stomping weaker players 6-0, and you are also advocating for a system that would give you more matchups against opponents in which you could win 6-0..

    If you like that it is a competitive environment you should be happy that the system tries to find an opponent close to your skill level rather than being a proponent of increasing the chance of high skill players being matched against lower skill players. That's a pretty big contradiction.

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