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Refuse NHL19, cause of input delay in eashl

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  • ExSnake01
    466 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Sinbin wrote: »

    I think it's the other way around. As the game gets more realistic, people get unhappy. There's a lot of randomness in hockey, but gamers don't do well with that. Just like real players, the ones in the game are prone to making mistakes, not picking up pucks, missing shots, making bad passes, etc. What this community wants is an arcade game with more predictable outcomes.

    Stats are a different issue though. If that's why you think NHL an arcade game and not for people passionate about hockey, you're certainly entitled to that.

    As if NHL 18 isn't arcade enough...

    There's a big difference between fighting for control of your players (which this game has) and realistic game mechanics (which this game doesn't have much of).

    Also randomness =/= bad ai, unrealistic puck physics, etc. The game shouldn't decide for me when to make errors, that should be up to the player. The problem with NHL 18 is that the "dumb" mistakes are happening too often. And this is many times out of the players control.

    The franchise should go back to the days where players decided the outcome of the games, not the AI. From my experience, too many games are decided by one team having the perfect goalie while the other team is given the complete opposite.

    Randomness is part of hockey but not in the way NHL 18 tries to paint it.

    Post edited by ExSnake01 on
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    I'd also question the randomness in NHL18 because certain 'random' things seem to happen too often and exactly the same way. So they feel less random and more like coded on purpose.

    For example, goalie rebounds. Why do they always seem to be directed in the waiting stick blade of the opponent, who can just score at will? Or those bounces in the air where the opponent just automatically guides the puck in, you don't even have to do anything to score on that?

    Or the scoring chance you KNOW goes in 95% of times, but THIS time the goalie just deflects the puck over the glass and into the crow. Which is when you know the AI goalie is playing in hero mode, by the way.

    There's so much of this stuff going on, you can hardly call the game realistic.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »

    I think it's the other way around. As the game gets more realistic, people get unhappy. There's a lot of randomness in hockey, but gamers don't do well with that. Just like real players, the ones in the game are prone to making mistakes, not picking up pucks, missing shots, making bad passes, etc. What this community wants is an arcade game with more predictable outcomes.

    Stats are a different issue though. If that's why you think NHL an arcade game and not for people passionate about hockey, you're certainly entitled to that.

    As if NHL 18 isn't arcade enough...

    There's a big difference between fighting for control of your players (which this game has) and realistic game mechanics (which this game doesn't have much of).

    Also randomness =/= bad ai, unrealistic puck physics, etc. The game shouldn't decide for me when to make errors, that should be up to the player. The problem with NHL 18 is that the "dumb" mistakes are happening too often. And this is many times out of the players control.

    The franchise should go back to the days where players decided the outcome of the games, not the AI. From my experience, too many games are decided by one team having the perfect goalie while the other team is given the complete opposite.

    Randomness is part of hockey but not in the way NHL 18 tries to paint it.

    So, what you add that would guarantee only mistakes coming from controlling your own player? How would you handle missed shots, passes and puck pick ups?

    There are plenty of realistic mechanics. Just read Ben's posts here and you'll how they depend on real world physics and situations. Yeah, it's not perfect. I totally get that, but there are a lot of realistic mechanics.

    If it were always up to you to decide when an error occurs, you'd never have any errors. Again though, you can't have the AI be flawless or they'd be more horribly abused than they are now.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    I'd also question the randomness in NHL18 because certain 'random' things seem to happen too often and exactly the same way. So they feel less random and more like coded on purpose.

    For example, goalie rebounds. Why do they always seem to be directed in the waiting stick blade of the opponent, who can just score at will? Or those bounces in the air where the opponent just automatically guides the puck in, you don't even have to do anything to score on that?

    Or the scoring chance you KNOW goes in 95% of times, but THIS time the goalie just deflects the puck over the glass and into the crow. Which is when you know the AI goalie is playing in hero mode, by the way.

    There's so much of this stuff going on, you can hardly call the game realistic.

    The majority of rebounds go right back to my defenders. Shooting for rebounds happens in the real world too, but it used to be very heavily relied on pre-17. Goalies are much better with them. Yeah, sometimes they go to an opponent, but it's uncommon I get a rebound scored on me. Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe it's how I position my defenders. I also actually control my defenders so I'll it's not tough to pick up rebounds due to my positioning.

    Not everything is realistic, but it's not some kind of fantasy hockey game either. There's a lot of realism involved. Too much for most people here though. I imagine if issues with skating could be resolved and you had more control over your player, but nothing else changed, you'd hear a lot different story from this community.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    Sorry,
    But the game hasn't gotten more arcade over the years, whoever said that is severely confused. The game has become more sim/realistic since NHL 13 when they introduced TPS skating.

    That doesn't mean there are no arcade aspects in the game, it just means there are fewer arcade aspects than in past years.

    It's been said a million times, a million different ways over the past 6 years... TPS sucks, the game has become less fun and more frustrating.

    NHL 09 thru NHL 12 were this games glory days, it's time we go back to this successful model. Scrap the sim/TPS and go back to a fun popular game.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    Sinbin wrote: »

    The majority of rebounds go right back to my defenders. Shooting for rebounds happens in the real world too, but it used to be very heavily relied on pre-17. Goalies are much better with them. Yeah, sometimes they go to an opponent, but it's uncommon I get a rebound scored on me. Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe it's how I position my defenders. I also actually control my defenders so I'll it's not tough to pick up rebounds due to my positioning.

    Not everything is realistic, but it's not some kind of fantasy hockey game either. There's a lot of realism involved. Too much for most people here though. I imagine if issues with skating could be resolved and you had more control over your player, but nothing else changed, you'd hear a lot different story from this community.

    Which game mode are talking about, because in my experience in EASHL, rebounds do that all the time, maybe it's not as bad as before, but it's definitely there. People try it all the time, and succeed with good percentage. It's possible to prevent that like you say, by being there before the opponent, but that doesn't mean the rebounds seem deliberately to go that way?

    It's just like in two to one situations, where the dman is in the middle trying to prevent the pass for one-timer with their stick, and only deflects the puck in their own net. It happens way too often, and feels not really 'random'. It' always a big risk to do that. Better option is to use the kneeling or lying down block, because there the puck just 'dies' on you.
  • kezz123
    653 posts Member
    When speaking of things players have no control over, i am reminded of how they removed the game expulsions for checking from behind. One of the few things in the hitting game that was 100% preventable....by using boardplay instead of ramming a guy with his back to you in the board as hard as you can.....but it was removed. Meanwhile the random elbows and so on which you have no control over remain in the game. That always irked me.

    Me and my friend still discuss (we did yesterday in fact) about how much we miss playing NHL but have no intent on coming back to this game while its still in this terrible terrible state. Its better not to play and miss it than play and hate it for now.

    Here is hoping for a drastic change or another company giving a hockey game a go seriously.
  • MooseHunter10
    403 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    kezz123 wrote: »
    Meanwhile the random elbows and so on which you have no control over remain in the game. That always irked me.

    Had a sniper class get a 5 min major for elbowing last night. RNG to decide if the elbow pops out, and another RNG to decide if theres an injury = 5 mins for the human checker doing everything right. RNG doesn't belong in competitive play like that.
    EASHL player
  • kezz123
    653 posts Member
    kezz123 wrote: »
    Meanwhile the random elbows and so on which you have no control over remain in the game. That always irked me.

    Had a sniper class get a 5 min major for elbowing last night. RNG to decide if the elbow pops out, and another RNG to decide if theres an injury = 5 mins for the human checker doing everything right. RNG doesn't belong in competitive play like that.

    Exactly. And yet there was 0 RNG in checkings from behind and it was removed. Every single times I got one of those game misconducts, which was almost never, I called it while charging the guy.....totally worth it ! I knew I was going to get it so I knew it was preventable. My friend who was dumb as a post on the flip side kept getting them and crying about it while we all laughed at him each time because we all knew it was happening 2 seconds before he hit the guy.

    But yah, this is one of many reasons why this game gets further and further away from a good competitive game. And as I said years ago, the less a game is competitive the less people care if they win or lose and the less people care if they win or lose the less they care to play at all.
  • Froommey
    800 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Froommey wrote: »
    19KRAKA74 wrote: »
    If sales continue to decline EA will stop production of this title, even though it's their own fault. We will left having to play...Fifa!

    You mean then another company can take this broken game and bring back the glory days?

    EA bigwigs probably just figure their declining sales reflect a bunch of people suddenly stopped liking hockey instead of that they reflect an ailing game.

    They did the same with GM Connected. Most requested mode turned into least played, and they still blame players for not playing it as a reason to not bring it back instead of admitting they blew it.

    The problem is that from year to year EA made this game more and more for online Arcade players than for NHL Freaks. So many important graphic details like player appearance and pics for all real players and many stats jn detail are missing. Hockey is a game of stats. This is important for this game. An Canadian producer needs to know this.

    I think it's the other way around. As the game gets more realistic, people get unhappy. There's a lot of randomness in hockey, but gamers don't do well with that. Just like real players, the ones in the game are prone to making mistakes, not picking up pucks, missing shots, making bad passes, etc. What this community wants is an arcade game with more predictable outcomes.

    Stats are a different issue though. If that's why you think NHL an arcade game and not for people passionate about hockey, you're certainly entitled to that.

    The gameplay is good enough. I like how it is. When I say that they work more for Arcade players I mean they work to much at the gameplay than on graphic details. The graphic details like player heads and individual detailed stats which are important in a career are poor in this game. As a former ex Hockey player and coach I know from what I speak.
  • Follisimo
    1346 posts Member
    Socair wrote: »
    im one of these players that have struggled with the input delay since nhl 15. nhl 18 has been the worst game yet. its been totally unplayable. with the poor puck pickups combined with huge amounts of input delay. but few weeks back bought new gaming monitor instead of a tv. (asus vp28u) it has 1ms response time and really low input lag. its been working like a charm. loving the game again. its still having some input delay obviously, but now it feels like im playing offline. if any of you guys have change to test the game with some good gaming monitor, i recommend you give it a try. it just so much more responsive.
    Great point regarding the monitor. The smaller screen is an advantage too as you’re not looking around as much. All the serious content providers that I see on YouTube for this game and CoD use monitors.
    It’s not a huge leap in ms, but in online gaming, those gained ms make a difference.

    It's even better now with my Xbox One X since they added FreeSync and 120hz refresh rate. Sure I'm not doing the 4k but that is OK til those 1k+ monitors drop to a reasonable price. I use a 27in monitor too which is perfect size to see it all and have a super low ms.

    I've been blessed to have an amazing connection over the years, but sadly of late got that stupid 65% packet loss problem of late that I hope gets fixed completely.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »

    The majority of rebounds go right back to my defenders. Shooting for rebounds happens in the real world too, but it used to be very heavily relied on pre-17. Goalies are much better with them. Yeah, sometimes they go to an opponent, but it's uncommon I get a rebound scored on me. Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe it's how I position my defenders. I also actually control my defenders so I'll it's not tough to pick up rebounds due to my positioning.

    Not everything is realistic, but it's not some kind of fantasy hockey game either. There's a lot of realism involved. Too much for most people here though. I imagine if issues with skating could be resolved and you had more control over your player, but nothing else changed, you'd hear a lot different story from this community.

    Which game mode are talking about, because in my experience in EASHL, rebounds do that all the time, maybe it's not as bad as before, but it's definitely there. People try it all the time, and succeed with good percentage. It's possible to prevent that like you say, by being there before the opponent, but that doesn't mean the rebounds seem deliberately to go that way?

    It's just like in two to one situations, where the dman is in the middle trying to prevent the pass for one-timer with their stick, and only deflects the puck in their own net. It happens way too often, and feels not really 'random'. It' always a big risk to do that. Better option is to use the kneeling or lying down block, because there the puck just 'dies' on you.

    I play defense in EASHL so maybe I don't notice them as often. They also only happen if you give them the space to take that shot. They're being forced to the outside. When I see that and notice another forward setting up to get it, I place myself in front of the net to get the rebound first. Still, I'm not seeing them abused in any mode. They used to be really bad, not so much now though.

    As far as a 2 on 1 deflecting it in to the net... yeah, seen it, but not with so much regularity that it's a problem. It sucks for sure, but it's a rare enough occurance for me that it's not something that makes me think it's a problem.
  • ExSnake01
    466 posts Member
    edited May 2018
    Sinbin wrote: »

    So, what you add that would guarantee only mistakes coming from controlling your own player? How would you handle missed shots, passes and puck pick ups?

    There are plenty of realistic mechanics. Just read Ben's posts here and you'll how they depend on real world physics and situations. Yeah, it's not perfect. I totally get that, but there are a lot of realistic mechanics.

    If it were always up to you to decide when an error occurs, you'd never have any errors. Again though, you can't have the AI be flawless or they'd be more horribly abused than they are now.

    That's easy. Go back to the older generation of games where less of the dumb plays are happening. My AI are constantly skating into each other including me. They are taking a bunch of penalties. They cause a lot of offsides even though my strategies are heavily biased towards not dumping/chasing. Even my goalie is taking penalties. Happened a few times last night. The goalies certainly do not play at the professional level a lot of times.

    In the older hockey games, I remember plenty of times I missed the net, or hit the post. This did happen years ago, but what we have now is out of control. Controlling my players feels like I'm steering mack trucks. They have very little agility, slow speed and their puck awareness is extremely lacking. No, I am not saying to go back to the NHL 09 skating. Add delay input to the poor skating mechanics, you have a mess what's supposed to be called a hockey game. But this game needs some serious polishing. NHL 18 is not realistic.

  • I think I have played one game of EASHL in the last 3 years... this will not impact me buying 19 at all
  • I feel like the only reason they have maintained stagnant sales is because of the online sales for digital copies...I bought 18 when it was like $18...it’s on sale again last time I checked for $12...for $12 or $18 I was willing to roll the dice on a bad game instead of wasting $60 off release.
  • i always get it on release and typically enjoy it till late summer... nearly a full year of entertainment for 60... worth it
  • One thing that will help if we stand together look at the ping and if it's less then 30 usually the game is not bad but higher ping sometimes most of times the goalie opponent stops everything
    That would force people to stop playing Wi-Fi and have a better internet connection of they want to play and don't have everybody quitting on them
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