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Poke check spam

Prev13456
gundamfreedomx
88 posts Member
edited September 2018
Kids win again

https://clips.twitch.tv/SavoryConsiderateSalsifyRlyTho

[Updated title to reflect the content of the conversation - @gundamfreedomx if you want to edit it please do so to reflect what you want to discuss]
Post edited by EA_Roger on

Replies

  • Well... At least this time it lasted more than 21 hours. I guess it's back to NHL 18 again.
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • NHL 18 Roster Update and Better Skating Edition.
  • On the one hand, I agree that some tweaking was needed, especially with the DSS where if the puck holder skates THROUGH your outstretched stick, it would cause a penalty.

    On the other, I was hoping there would be more time before a tuner update so that people could have time to adjust...

    I'm still going to suggest to @NHLDev that a solution to the poke checking could be in greatly increasing the stamina cost for poking. If it cost 30%-50% each time you poke, people might not be so keen on machine gun spamming it. It would also be a good way to balance the play in ONES where people can mash the RB button because there's no rules or penalties. Same principle could be attached to DSS, where holding the stick out could slowly (but constantly) drain your stamina.

    This would add a much needed element of strategy to stick play and poke checking specifically while not necessarily making either of them "bad".
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    On the one hand, I agree that some tweaking was needed, especially with the DSS where if the puck holder skates THROUGH your outstretched stick, it would cause a penalty.

    On the other, I was hoping there would be more time before a tuner update so that people could have time to adjust...

    I'm still going to suggest to @NHLDev that a solution to the poke checking could be in greatly increasing the stamina cost for poking. If it cost 30%-50% each time you poke, people might not be so keen on machine gun spamming it. It would also be a good way to balance the play in ONES where people can mash the RB button because there's no rules or penalties. Same principle could be attached to DSS, where holding the stick out could slowly (but constantly) drain your stamina.

    This would add a much needed element of strategy to stick play and poke checking specifically while not necessarily making either of them "bad".

    The changes aren't that drastic in the grand scheme of things. The people benefiting the most should be those that were already adapting and not those that are playing reckless.

    For the extended DSS, if you recognize you are going to put it through a players legs and let go, you can stop the penalty chance as we don't consider it a strong stick as soon as you start to blend out. I get that in real life there are times that a player would just push past that stick but that is why we let you go through one leg outside in and don't penalize during the blend out and consider holding it strong as if you are holding the player up and adding friction there. In future we could possibly recognize the velocity more of a swipe vs just having the stick in space, or hopefully handle it better with a more realistic physics reaction.

    I could see us impacting stamina on pokes the more they are spammed. Right now, we slow you down the more you spam as you are impacting your skating but you are right that a stamina penalty could work in multiple modes. I wouldn't think this should be warranted for defensive skill stick though as it takes even more manual control and is something a lot of defenders hold out in lanes as they skate. We already have a max speed penalty in that state vs skating without it as well.
  • ExSnake01
    453 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    The guy was clearly spamming it and still made successful poke checks. I can easily tell this wouldn't have worked last night before the update. That's a bummer.

    And the first skate steps was toned down (at least from my understanding on the tuner changes from beta to final version). I could be wrong here though. Still, something feels a bit slowed down compared to before.

    EDIT: After some online versus, I'm happy to say they didn't change the poke checks much at all. I was still getting a number of penalties once I started spamming it. A slight bump in skating speed would be nice but game is great so far.
    Post edited by ExSnake01 on
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    On the one hand, I agree that some tweaking was needed, especially with the DSS where if the puck holder skates THROUGH your outstretched stick, it would cause a penalty.

    On the other, I was hoping there would be more time before a tuner update so that people could have time to adjust...

    I'm still going to suggest to @NHLDev that a solution to the poke checking could be in greatly increasing the stamina cost for poking. If it cost 30%-50% each time you poke, people might not be so keen on machine gun spamming it. It would also be a good way to balance the play in ONES where people can mash the RB button because there's no rules or penalties. Same principle could be attached to DSS, where holding the stick out could slowly (but constantly) drain your stamina.

    This would add a much needed element of strategy to stick play and poke checking specifically while not necessarily making either of them "bad".

    The changes aren't that drastic in the grand scheme of things. The people benefiting the most should be those that were already adapting and not those that are playing reckless.

    For the extended DSS, if you recognize you are going to put it through a players legs and let go, you can stop the penalty chance as we don't consider it a strong stick as soon as you start to blend out. I get that in real life there are times that a player would just push past that stick but that is why we let you go through one leg outside in and don't penalize during the blend out and consider holding it strong as if you are holding the player up and adding friction there. In future we could possibly recognize the velocity more of a swipe vs just having the stick in space, or hopefully handle it better with a more realistic physics reaction.

    I could see us impacting stamina on pokes the more they are spammed. Right now, we slow you down the more you spam as you are impacting your skating but you are right that a stamina penalty could work in multiple modes. I wouldn't think this should be warranted for defensive skill stick though as it takes even more manual control and is something a lot of defenders hold out in lanes as they skate. We already have a max speed penalty in that state vs skating without it as well.

    The video is very sad to see when that play shouldn't be warranted at all. Really feel there needs to be a cooldown type mechanic to pokes.

    Also gotta tone down that bump from behind stuff of losing the puck. If someone is skating away from the player and someone bumps them slightly from the back they shouldn't be losing the puck and/or balance. It just feels the speed they are using isn't taking into account the speed the puck carrier is moving also.
  • Feelsbadman Pepehands



  • ExSnake01
    453 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    I edited my post after playing some versus games. The update didn't really change the poke checks all that much. I wasn't able to poke the puck like the guy in video did. I was still getting penalties once I started using it recklessly so I think NHLDev is right. The claim that you can spam pokes seems exaggerated.

    I only play online versus and that video was in a HUT game so it's possible different game modes have unique tuners?
  • Follisimo wrote: »
    The video is very sad to see when that play shouldn't be warranted at all. Really feel there needs to be a cooldown type mechanic to pokes.

    Also gotta tone down that bump from behind stuff of losing the puck. If someone is skating away from the player and someone bumps them slightly from the back they shouldn't be losing the puck and/or balance. It just feels the speed they are using isn't taking into account the speed the puck carrier is moving also.

    Relative speed is a big factor in the outcome of the collisions. There could be a few things you are seeing, tough to say without looking at the same footage but I can comment based on what I have seen others post.

    It is possible that it is incidental stick on stick contact causing a loss of puck and as the player blends from a puck carrier animation into a two handed or one handed off puck animation, they appear to look like they stumble as that is mixed with the incidental physics of body on body and limb contact.

    It could also be an incidental body collision that can move limbs based on the relative tensions of the limbs, etc. and if a limb then moves the stick in such a way that it is beyond acceptable range of the puck, the puck comes free so that we don't get a yo-yo effect.

    Lastly, it could be the physics reaction itself and the player is stumbling which are tuned to deal with the physical factors of the relative speed and how flush the contact was but also takes into account the physical size/strength of the players involved and their attributes.

    In general, players limiting the relative speed and doing a good job protecting the puck still have a lot of success protecting the puck. I would bet it is actually incidental contact causing the puck loss but would need to see the videos to be sure. We did tune limb tensions to what we intended between the beta and final and we also improved consistency of the physics reactions.

    Overall, it is in a fairly good spot but I do know that some players wish they were keeping the puck easier. That said, people complain about puck control when it is too high and when the hitting feels like there are bubbles as well, so having more flush contact where puck control is disrupted but able to be picked up again is often more realistic in some of those lower speed collisions where players are able to use their body. It encourages players to get to more space, move the puck and be more aware of the subtle nature of protecting the puck and/or keeping yourself between the defense and any loose puck that can occur eve if you are going to lose it.
  • ExSnake01 wrote: »
    I edited my post after playing some versus games. The update didn't really change the poke checks all that much. I wasn't able to poke the puck like the guy in video did. I was still getting penalties once I started using it recklessly so I think NHLDev is right. The claim that you can spam pokes seems exaggerated.

    I only play online versus and that video was in a HUT game so it's possible different game modes have unique tuners?

    Appreciate you taking the time to test it more and coming back with an update.
  • If this isn’t a clear enough message to developers who from one day to the next just ruined the game , i don’t know what it’s. Poke check is completely back to NHL 18 and skating engine is now not even noticeable because you've chose to slow the game play down. Disappointing as can be. 2 days ago this game was starting to show promises with speed and penalizing those who spam poke check. Today , the game is completely ruined... again.
  • The pokes aren't crazy, but the lowering of speed was a bad choice and I'll stick to that. The pick up that was there when skating from the Beta isn't there as much anymore. Meaning dudes can close distance to quickly.
  • ExSnake01
    453 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    CMBDeadly wrote: »
    The pokes aren't crazy, but the lowering of speed was a bad choice and I'll stick to that. The pick up that was there when skating from the Beta isn't there as much anymore. Meaning dudes can close distance to quickly.

    Totally agree. You beat someone one-on-one just for him to instantly be on your trail. The guy who takes off skating faster should generally always have a head start.

    In the NHL, when this happens the puck carrier is long gone with nobody near him.

  • ExSnake01 wrote: »
    CMBDeadly wrote: »
    The pokes aren't crazy, but the lowering of speed was a bad choice and I'll stick to that. The pick up that was there when skating from the Beta isn't there as much anymore. Meaning dudes can close distance to quickly.

    Totally agree. You beat someone one-on-one just for him to instantly be on your trail. The guy who takes off skating faster should generally always have a head start.

    In the NHL, when this happens the puck carrier is long gone with nobody near him.

    Oh don't worry they always use the stupid stamina excuse as to why you get caught. The real problem lies in the puck carrier weighted from the slider. Where like they can have 90spd but if they got the puck they are at 85spd. Which is just stupid because players these days are fast with or without the puck. Especially straight away.

    And they probably have this catch-up feature in place to not promote cherry-picking. Instead they are back to promoting boring neutral zone trap collapsing hockey. They always do their best to ignore the 6's community on how to make it great.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1106 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    GauthierQC wrote: »
    Feelsbadman Pepehands



    Man, that's bad. As much I disliked stick touching only one skate and the guy used to go down (pre update), in that video the poking guy clearly swipes at the skate and is nowhere near touching the puck, so it should at least make the other guy lose balance, and result in a penalty.

    Hope the devs didn't overdo it....
  • GauthierQC wrote: »
    Feelsbadman Pepehands



    Ignoring the poke checking for a second, this video is a great example of one of the more ridiculous features in the game.

    The puck carrier loses the puck and it ends up a couple of feet behind him. Yet he's able to blindly reach back with his foot and pull the puck up to his stick. This happens way too often.

  • and ballerinas lose lol. poking was broken and it needed fixing. these are supposed to be nhl players and they go down like football players. even nymar would embarrassed.
  • gundamfreedomx
    88 posts Member
    edited September 2018

    and ballerinas lose lol. poking was broken and it needed fixing. these are supposed to be nhl players and they go down like football players. even nymar would embarrassed.
    you are the particular reason why the game is heading in a wrong direction and I know just with your comment you were bad with body positioning before the tuner set. And bad hockey players win again. lol

  • Well I just finished a game where somehow when the other guy used the DSS and constantly swung it around, it would go between my skates and poke the puck from behind, there's no consistency with it. Plus can we please bring up the overuse now of the stick lift! Guys are running around just spamming it like crazy now. EA put a delay before you can use it again or a drain from stamina, something to curb the overuse, and before anyone says it's part of the game, I've played hockey my whole life and never witnessed anyone running around just going to lift someone else's stick like its bloody magic wand.
  • currah96483
    4 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    I loved nhl 19 when it came out and as of 3 hours ago..... poke spammers win again.... another game ruined


    [edited for profanity]
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