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Why doesn't this game ever reward great play?

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  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    I had a game we’re my club outplayed the other team 3 to 1 and couldn’t score because of an invisible wall that stopped the puck from going in. Here’s the clip of it

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/60555036

    Again, this is one instance.

    Did this invisible wall happen to you a number of times, consistently over a large number of games?

    No, it didn't. It was a bug - it happens.

    To claim that it is somehow coded in to the game to make the games more competitive - it's a ridiculous and dangerous narrative to push about a game that prides itself on being an organic, competitive experience.

    Having someone come in here and claim this and that about how the game is purposely refusing goals is bloody ridiculous.

    There's clearly a skill gap here with those claiming that the game is methodically altering gameplay in order to keep games close at the far end of the spectrum.

    There's a lack of skill from those players - or an outright refusal to admit a lack of knowledge surrounding the nuances of a 'good' scoring chance.

    I know it’s a bug that happens rarely and its unfortunate. Also, if I sounded like they purposely coded that for games like that I didn’t mean it. It’s just annoying for that to happen when your clearly that better team to lose a game and look back at why. It’s frustrating thats all.
  • My issue is less with the players that keep exploiting doing the 'glitch' goals. Those can generally be defended. My issue are the games where you dominate. Get some great chances, some low percentage shots and of course some bad forced plays. But in the end you can have 5-10 high quality changes and you either get supermaned, hit posts on open nets or miss the net from 3 feet out. A really unlucky offensive game, then you lose 1-0 or 2-1 where the other guy has scored a weak wrist shot that bounces off 3 things before lighting the lamp or a clapper with no screen from the blue line goes in to win it in OT.

    If this happened the odd odd odd time than I don't think we would read this 'boring overused narrative' on the forums as often as we do. The fact that it keeps getting talked about makes it at least something to talk about.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited September 2018
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Not denying any of this, but I will remind you and point out NHL 08 thru NHL12 were the highlight years, most fun, best era, most competitive titles in the series.

    Adding in all the complex layers of reality ruined the fun of the game, not saying it's not more challenging or more realistic, but club, LG/VHL, etc. back in the day died off quickly in NHL 13 and has only been a shell of it's former glory days ever since.

    It would be nice for this series to take a step back once in a while to recognize what worked when the game had its most cult following, the 08 thru 12 era, and do that more.

    These are fair points but you have to be careful with a personal perspective, even if shared with others, as being stated like fact. The reasons why you had fun then may be different reasons to why others did and there may be plenty of players you aren't talking to that find the game the most fun and competitive now.

    Overall, the team would prefer to move forward and continue to improve mechanics as new tech opens doors for us. It is definitely worth understanding why past games had success and we have those conversations all the time but the new game has also solved a lot of problems that you may realize you are taking for granted if you actually went back to those games.

    It will be tough to tap into the nostalgia of the lives some of our veteran players had when they were 10 years younger playing eashl for the first time but we can definitely take the feedback and continue to try and improve the product taking it all into account.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited September 2018
    majjama_26 wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    I had a game we’re my club outplayed the other team 3 to 1 and couldn’t score because of an invisible wall that stopped the puck from going in. Here’s the clip of it

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/60555036

    I already used your example earlier in the thread, Epic, Lol. Scroll up and look at the answers to it. According to people in this thread, we're passing too much and taking a crap load of low quality shots. Apparently, that's what dominating means to some people.

    Passing should be used to open up space. The actual act of passing and having a lot of team puck control in itself has no impact on scoring chances but it should certainly increase your chances of getting good scoring chances. However, if every time you even get a good chance you have opened up, you don't finish, it doesn't make that time on attack or shot on net any more meaningful than a solo shot another team had from the same position on the ice that they didn't have to work as hard for.

    Moving the puck and getting the goalie moving, shooting through screens, and getting good accurate shots off where you read the goalie and shoot to where they aren't will all greatly increase your chance to score. This is proven time and time again in the game.

    The invisible wall video is obviously tough for someone like myself to swallow as it is something you never want to have happen in a game. It is a bug though and obviously not something intended. As soon as a I saw it, I forwarded it on to the rest of the team to look at.

    My best guess is that it is actually a frame update issue and an error in how we handle the puck coming loose. I think the game thinks the stick makes contact with the goalie or another piece of geo on the same frame that the puck is released. The stick moves so much frame to frame due to it's speed that in the same frame that the puck is released, the follow through of the stick may in the games eyes hit geometry. Visually, when you scroll through at sub frame speed, the shot release happens before the follow through but to the game, this all happened in the same frame and it isn't realizing the order at which these things are happening. It is important for us to do calculations this way or else there would be cases where a fast moving stick could drag a puck through a players skate or something and then the puck would come loose on the other side, even if we detected the collision (which we have seen in the past). As for the puck drop logic, rather than the puck continuing to move at the velocity it was traveling prior to the update, it seems to kill the velocity when it comes loose. This is just a bug and not something that would even replicate if we did it over and over so we need to track down a reproduction on a debug machine to really see what is happening there. In most cases, the puck continues to travel in the direction and velocity it was prior to coming loose.
  • The point being made, and somehow being missed by some is very simple.

    There are people whom actually have hockey IQ, utilize it & play the game beautifully with it. They play smart, sound hockey & are RARELY rewarded for doing so.

    There are people that don’t know how to properly play, play poorly & never improve, & coincidentally are CONSTANTLY rewarded for it. And why you ask?

    Because every year it’s the exact same issue. There are certain shots that will go in 100% of the time from certain angles or spots on the ice. AKA, the glitch goals.

    A bad player that only scores glitch goals will win far more games than the opposite. And that’s been the brutal honest truth about this game for several years now.
  • CMBDeadly wrote: »
    Part of it is you can't tie up the body, there is only stick battles which leads to a hold. Like little nauces would be nice, the stick needs to be more dynamic.

    Isn't holding y instead of tapping tying up the body? Or triangle if you're ps4.
  • majjama_26
    175 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    majjama_26 wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    I had a game we’re my club outplayed the other team 3 to 1 and couldn’t score because of an invisible wall that stopped the puck from going in. Here’s the clip of it

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/60555036

    I already used your example earlier in the thread, Epic, Lol. Scroll up and look at the answers to it. According to people in this thread, we're passing too much and taking a crap load of low quality shots. Apparently, that's what dominating means to some people.

    Passing should be used to open up space. The actual act of passing and having a lot of team puck control in itself has no impact on scoring chances but it should certainly increase your chances of getting good scoring chances. However, if every time you even get a good chance you have opened up, you don't finish, it doesn't make that time on attack or shot on net any more meaningful than a solo shot another team had from the same position on the ice that they didn't have to work as hard for.

    Moving the puck and getting the goalie moving, shooting through screens, and getting good accurate shots off where you read the goalie and shoot to where they aren't will all greatly increase your chance to score. This is proven time and time again in the game.

    The invisible wall video is obviously tough for someone like myself to swallow as it is something you never want to have happen in a game. It is a bug though and obviously not something intended. As soon as a I saw it, I forwarded it on to the rest of the team to look at.

    My best guess is that it is actually a frame update issue and an error in how we handle the puck coming loose. I think the game thinks the stick makes contact with the goalie or another piece of geo on the same frame that the puck is released. The stick moves so much frame to frame due to it's speed that in the same frame that the puck is released, the follow through of the stick may in the games eyes hit geometry. Visually, when you scroll through at sub frame speed, the shot release happens before the follow through but to the game, this all happened in the same frame and it isn't realizing the order at which these things are happening. It is important for us to do calculations this way or else there would be cases where a fast moving stick could drag a puck through a players skate or something and then the puck would come loose on the other side, even if we detected the collision (which we have seen in the past). As for the puck drop logic, rather than the puck continuing to move at the velocity it was traveling prior to the update, it seems to kill the velocity when it comes loose. This is just a bug and not something that would even replicate if we did it over and over so we need to track down a reproduction on a debug machine to really see what is happening there. In most cases, the puck continues to travel in the direction and velocity it was prior to coming loose.

    I don't understand how you keep missing the point about teams using one or two methods to cheese their way to goals, despite a team like mine NOT using these exploits, dominating in basically all categories, and still winding up on the short end of the stick. The disparity of the stats is not the end all be all (as I've already stated in the thread), but it is a very good indication on how a team controls the puck and gets the puck to the net in a game that is quite more difficult to score than in previous games. In NHL 18, my team destroyed these kinds of teams even though they were cheesing, but this year you made it more difficult for the goal-scorers and literally the same for the cheesers.

    In essence, you have upped the ante in the mechanics and teams need better team play and better skill to get chances and then finally score on them. What you have not addressed are the cheese goals, like the uncontrollable rebound goal that teams use who can't pass, can't get good shots, where all they need to do is fly down the wing, toss a shot to the net at an angle where the goalie should control it, instead it pops out in the slot or the opposite side for an easy rebound goal.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited September 2018
    The point being made, and somehow being missed by some is very simple.

    There are people whom actually have hockey IQ, utilize it & play the game beautifully with it. They play smart, sound hockey & are RARELY rewarded for doing so.

    There are people that don’t know how to properly play, play poorly & never improve, & coincidentally are CONSTANTLY rewarded for it. And why you ask?

    Because every year it’s the exact same issue. There are certain shots that will go in 100% of the time from certain angles or spots on the ice. AKA, the glitch goals.

    A bad player that only scores glitch goals will win far more games than the opposite. And that’s been the brutal honest truth about this game for several years now.

    Personally, I fully get this point and it is what we aim to improve year on year. We want to reward smart hockey play and players that have great twitch skill in the game to pull off smart hockey plays. It is very subjective though. I think we have cut down on goals that were considered glitches considerably this year and that we do a great job of rewarding team play. There are always pieces that need to be dialed in even more and we are considering certain bits of tuning but I wouldn't say what we are looking at is too far off the mark.

    However, the subjectivity comes down to the evaluation of a good play and that is where there is more subtle pieces built in to the logic than some people think. When the goalie gets across quickly and robs a one timer, quite often the original passer wasn't a threat to score at all and the goalie just had to push off and make the save from a set position, where if they are forced to commit to the shooter first, they are going to be even slower getting over. When they do get over, they may sometimes dive or sprawl to take away the bottom of the net. Anything over them will score but because the player is rushing in and shooting a cross body one timer, they don't get all of it and jam a slower, less accurate shot into the goalie. Should we reward more of those chances by having the goalie less likely to get over there at all? Sure, that can be argued but that isn't to say that the above details aren't being considered before these outcomes play out. It may just be a bit of tuning away from playing even better and rewarding a higher percentage of what people feel are good chances.

    The same goes with open shots in the slot. Some people say that they always miss their good chances or that the goalie always robs them. If they are shooting it into the goalie or missing the net wide, it could be that they didn't settle enough or didn't recognize and pick the open part of the net well enough. We don't just reward any shot from the slot, it has to be a good shot to beat the goalie as we model the subtle pieces to more detail than that. A player may make a final quick move to get that chance, if they shoot right away they could catch the goalie off guard but they may end up with a less accurate shot because they rushed it. So even after that extra move to get space, they may need to resettle, and pick that open spot right above the pad and below the blocker.

    Some of those details are sometimes what is missing in peoples assessment of rewarding good chances.

    And again, I will reiterate and say that there are still things on our list that we want to dial in but we also don't make those changes off the cuff and are taking care in how we watch how the game plays in everyones hands as well as how the changes we are considering impact the game.

    And lastly, out of curiosity, what are the shots that you currently consider 'glitch goals'?
  • CMBDeadly wrote: »
    Part of it is you can't tie up the body, there is only stick battles which leads to a hold. Like little nauces would be nice, the stick needs to be more dynamic.

    Isn't holding y instead of tapping tying up the body? Or triangle if you're ps4.

    Yes which is a stick tie up, you cant get in close and pull and tug the person setting up for a pass you can only get in the way and stick hold tjem which locks you both in place instead of skating with them as you play a little man to man.
  • NHLDev
    1668 posts EA NHL Developer
    majjama_26 wrote: »

    I don't understand how you keep missing the point about teams using one or two methods to cheese their way to goals, despite a team like mine NOT using these exploits, dominating in basically all categories, and still winding up on the short end of the stick. The disparity of the stats is not the end all be all (as I've already stated in the thread), but it is a very good indication on how a team controls the puck and gets the puck to the net in a game that is quite more difficult to score than in previous games. In NHL 18, my team destroyed these kinds of teams even though they were cheesing, but this year you made it more difficult for the goal-scorers and literally the same for the cheesers.

    In essence, you have upped the ante in the mechanics and teams need better team play and better skill to get chances and then finally score on them. What you have not addressed are the cheese goals, like the uncontrollable rebound goal that teams use who can't pass, can't get good shots, where all they need to do is fly down the wing, toss a shot to the net at an angle where the goalie should control it, instead it pops out in the slot or the opposite side for an easy rebound goal.

    I agree that goalies should handle the weaker shots way better when it comes to rebounds by deflecting them out of danger with ease more often. They have that ability and do handle them at times but not enough coverage to do it consistently.

    Other than the rebounds, are there other shots/plays you classify as cheese this year?

    Are you playing 6v6 or 3v3?

    What I find when I play is that the off puck human defense doesn't do a great job to defend against rebounds staying goal side and near their assignment. This is especially worse in 3v3 They often shade towards the puck giving them a chance at an interception at times on a pass for a one timer, but they aren't actually playing the man that is setup for that one timer or that can get in behind them for a rebound.

    I find that in that proper positon, I can break up their one timers and defend them from getting to the net for clean rebounds. Also, if I stay in that position, they can't play a pickup or a shot without there stick coming into incidental contact with my stick or body which disrupts their chance.

    Just a few things to consider when looking back at those plays and what you can personally do to improve success on those rebound plays.
  • ExSnake01
    460 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    You can show us pictures all day of after-game stats, but for all we know, you could be just passing too much and taking slapshots on every zone entry....

    I have to agree with OP regarding some of these games. Had plenty of games where I dominated in numbers. After the game, I would even check their rank to see how new they are to the game. Sure enough, they hardly the play the game and are ranked 1000+.

    Basically, it comes down to you having to beat the AI goalie instead of the opponent. It gets tough when a lot of open nets go wide or you hit the post 5+ times....

    Not much I can say to OP when you have games like this. Just keep playing the way you do. You'll win most of your matches if you control the game. Not all of them however...

  • VeNOM2099
    3152 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Here's my take on the goalies in this game. I believe I've talked to Ben on this several times as well.

    I understand and appreciate the complexity of how the game engine handles goalie logic. Shot angle, proximity, type of shot, even THREAT factor into the decisions the goalie makes, whether AI or Human. However, in all its complexity, it fails to factor in ONE important element and that's THE NET. Goalies in real life will factor in where they are relative to their net to decide if they want to go into a compact blocking type save (traditionally butterfly stance) or if they want to spread out a limb to cover space, not in hopes of really stopping the puck 100%, but just to block as much of the open net as possible.

    That's one thing that's really missing in this game. How often have I seen the AI decide to make a save that no goalie would ever make in that situation? How often, as a human goalie, have I anticipated a shot correctly, aware of my surroundings and positioning, but was given the entirely WRONG save animation? As mentioned above, when a weak shot from the point goes in on an unscreened goalie, I'd like to know WHAT calculations it does that gets it so confused it doesn't know how to make a save?

    The balancing of the goalies is all askew as it is right now: they make saves they have NO business making, while allowing goals on the most ridiculously easy to save shots. They're supposed to make saves they're in position to save. They're supposed to make saves if they anticipate the shot correctly (BTW, goalies CAN make saves while in motion otherwise NHL games would end with NBA scores). The notion that only high percentage shots from dangerous zones on the ice always go in is false. And it's precisely this false notion that has created this philosophy from EA and those in the community that don't play goalie that the "Goalie's gotta get sniped sometimes"...

    Again, I appreciate the complexity of how the game works underneath. It's not just "RNG"... But sometimes LOGIC needs to supersede CALCULATIONS. And the goalie mechanics lack a decent amount of LOGIC.
  • The point being made, and somehow being missed by some is very simple.

    There are people whom actually have hockey IQ, utilize it & play the game beautifully with it. They play smart, sound hockey & are RARELY rewarded for doing so.

    There are people that don’t know how to properly play, play poorly & never improve, & coincidentally are CONSTANTLY rewarded for it. And why you ask?

    Because every year it’s the exact same issue. There are certain shots that will go in 100% of the time from certain angles or spots on the ice. AKA, the glitch goals.

    A bad player that only scores glitch goals will win far more games than the opposite. And that’s been the brutal honest truth about this game for several years now.

    This right here. Nailed it.
    Visit my NHL/Bruins blog: BostonPucks.com
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    majjama_26 wrote: »

    I don't understand how you keep missing the point about teams using one or two methods to cheese their way to goals, despite a team like mine NOT using these exploits, dominating in basically all categories, and still winding up on the short end of the stick. The disparity of the stats is not the end all be all (as I've already stated in the thread), but it is a very good indication on how a team controls the puck and gets the puck to the net in a game that is quite more difficult to score than in previous games. In NHL 18, my team destroyed these kinds of teams even though they were cheesing, but this year you made it more difficult for the goal-scorers and literally the same for the cheesers.

    In essence, you have upped the ante in the mechanics and teams need better team play and better skill to get chances and then finally score on them. What you have not addressed are the cheese goals, like the uncontrollable rebound goal that teams use who can't pass, can't get good shots, where all they need to do is fly down the wing, toss a shot to the net at an angle where the goalie should control it, instead it pops out in the slot or the opposite side for an easy rebound goal.

    I agree that goalies should handle the weaker shots way better when it comes to rebounds by deflecting them out of danger with ease more often. They have that ability and do handle them at times but not enough coverage to do it consistently.

    Other than the rebounds, are there other shots/plays you classify as cheese this year?

    Are you playing 6v6 or 3v3?

    What I find when I play is that the off puck human defense doesn't do a great job to defend against rebounds staying goal side and near their assignment. This is especially worse in 3v3 They often shade towards the puck giving them a chance at an interception at times on a pass for a one timer, but they aren't actually playing the man that is setup for that one timer or that can get in behind them for a rebound.

    I find that in that proper positon, I can break up their one timers and defend them from getting to the net for clean rebounds. Also, if I stay in that position, they can't play a pickup or a shot without there stick coming into incidental contact with my stick or body which disrupts their chance.

    Just a few things to consider when looking back at those plays and what you can personally do to improve success on those rebound plays.

    I play 6s and 3s and can tell you 100% the type of goals that AI goalies let in is not realistic. I’ve already said it multiple times but for some reason it gets ignored. It’s an easy fix..... lateral movement needs to be turned down and reflexes need to be turned up. Sure, goalies in the NHL are weak high glove but they can stop almost every wrist shot from the point that isn’t a deflection. There are very few players in today’s NHL that can shoot a wrister from the top of the blue line and go in without some kind of deflection or traffic. It’s not going to sail above their shoulder from X amount of feet away and go in. That literally never happens in the NHL and happens on a frequent basis.

    In regards to WoC, updated goalies would help tremendously but I also think that the sniper build needs to be tuned down... the second best shot accuracy and power is like 85. Why is the sniper in the 90s? If two way and power forward has a starting wrist power/accuracy of say 83-84 then sniper needs to be an 87-88. It’s too high and literally everyone plays sniper and abuses the computer. I can’t block the shot every time because I’ll end up screening the goalie at some point. I can’t jump up and poke or lay the body because they’re max height and weight and they hold the puck behind them. I can only stop them for so long.

    I know that my last particular issue won’t be fixed in this years game but the amount of power someone can get off on a shot NEEDS to be dependent on body position. You shouldn’t be able to get a powerful shot when holding the puck to one side or an awkward position. It should be a quick snap shot with not much power, much like if you’re coming down your off wing and try to shoot.
  • AMGsode
    5 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    Goal scoring...is probably not very easy to "code" but it's a vital part of the game because hockey is essentially a goal-scoring game.

    The most frustrating games are when you cycle the puck well and manage to get some good chances. Let's say you get 15 one-timer opportunities. some of them go wide, some hit the post, sometimes your player misses the puck or animation glitches and the rest is saved by a "hot goalie". The other team however doesnt pass or do anything skill related. All they do is trap and as they somehow get the puck, they will shoot as soon as they enter your zone. They get maybe 10-15 shots and two of them go in. One is a terrible wrister from the blue line and the other is a crappy wrister from a blue line which resulted in a rebound goal. At the end of the game you'll shoot a bad slapper from the blue line (because it was 1 second left on the clock) and THAT GOES IN.

    That exact game happend to us.

    After the game we thought it was just a bad luck. I mean games like those happen in real life. However as it turns out it wasn't just one game or "one in ten" phenomena. So we switched our strategy a little.

    Now one of our wingers shoot a low shot asap we get in the zone while center and off-wing go straight in front of the net for the rebound. As soon as we lose the possession of the puck, we trap like crazy. Our record using this style has been 9-0-1. It doesnt take skill at all and it saddens me how effective this type of strategy can be.

    When it comes to rebounds vs one-timers. I feel like goalies struggle way more saving rebounds than one-timers. Also players tend to take amazing shots from rebounds whereas the shots from one-timers aren't as quick or accurate. I havent't looked into it more as it just popped in my head just as I was writing this.

    Edited to remove swearing. Let's watch the language. - EA_Cian
    Post edited by EA_Cian on
  • I dunno, I noticed that some teams seem to be able to score by simple slappers from the blueline, or wristers from a little closer (short sidem, or 'bug' wristers) just huge cannons that go straight in, hitting the post, and our AI goalie is powerless. We try one-timers, deflections, shoot high, shoot low, five hole, etc. and the opposing AI goalie has no trouble, or our shots are pretty weak or miss the goal.

    Sometimes scoring seems impossibly difficult, even if we dominate the game, and opponent gets 4 to 5 chances and scores at least two, with the above mentioned simple shots. I don't think it's just the player types they use or that they're simply good at shooting, because we have at least a couple pretty good players. I guess it's one of those things, sometimes you just can't win no matter what you do.



  • Here’s the thing though, the game has always and still influences the outcomes, by taking control away from your player, having him do animations automatically (playing defense and having my player bat the puck out of mid air has cost me 100s of goals and lost games- every time, it goes directly to the players stick, again he never has to move) and ignoring or delaying your input into the controller. Until this stuff is removed from the game and/or fixed this will never be a competitive, esports game.

    1. Charging RB/RT for several seconds for a dump or saucer will for no reason result in no air under your saucer (puck stays along the ice) or a waist high puck dump auto batted down by a player at the blue line, when holding all the other times sends a sky high puck dump that sometimes even leaves the arena- makes 0 sense.

    2. Delayed 1 Timers- On open nets, despite holding up on the RS for probably 10 seconds, 1 timer shot are delayed on some cross crease passes until the goalie is able to make it to the post, then after a good half to 1 second your player will finally release a weak shot saves by the goalie. I’ve never scored when this delayed animation happens, and I’ve never seen this delayed reaction when the goalie was already in position- this delayed 1 timer only happens when the goalie is out of position

    3. Overriding my passing aim as well as inconsistent power on passes. With passing set between 0-50% assistance, aiming left/right to hug the board side sometimes results in passes that go to the opposite side, but perfectly to a waiting player who never seems to have to move for an interception. Pass speed is a total crap shoot as well, and another area I feel is influenced by the CPU to force turnovers in games. Despite holding RT for plenty long to throw a hard crisp pass, your player will throw a slow dud.

    That’s just a few examples I thought about off the top of my head.
  • Here’s the thing though...

    Are you saying that the game does this by design?

    Because I think it's more of combination of circumstances, coding (or quality of it), RNG and lag. You just notice it when it happens to you, but it happens to everyone else too. Some people are skilled enough to play around these issues or just plain lucky at times. Maybe they have better connections, and the game goes their way because of it?

  • DontNeedTips
    187 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    I think it's funny. A dev asked the poster to please name the glitch goals, other then the cheesy low rebound shots, that yes, are easily handled if you have a proper d man, and all he or anyone else for that matter heard is crickets.

    I'll say it again, I play the same game as all of you, why don't I have these complaints about glitch goals or being able to score?

    I played 6 bad opponents in online vs. All they did was throw desperate low% shots on nets. All 6 we're only even able to get 10 shots off the entire game. The result? 6 consecutive shut outs.

    Do I need to post a screenshot to be believed? Becuase if need be, I will.

    I tell you this and it's the brutal truth. If someone is scoring the same shot on you, you either aren't competent enough on D or you need to get new d men.

    {EA_Lanna: Edited out potentially baiting remark}

    To say this game doesn't reward passing, finding the open mam and getting into dangerous scoring areas is also a lie. Why can I say its a lie? Becuase I play this game.

    So here is the simple truth: either get better. Find better teammates. Or accept the fact you're not as perfect as you think.
    Post edited by EA_Lanna on
  • majjama_26
    175 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    majjama_26 wrote: »

    I don't understand how you keep missing the point about teams using one or two methods to cheese their way to goals, despite a team like mine NOT using these exploits, dominating in basically all categories, and still winding up on the short end of the stick. The disparity of the stats is not the end all be all (as I've already stated in the thread), but it is a very good indication on how a team controls the puck and gets the puck to the net in a game that is quite more difficult to score than in previous games. In NHL 18, my team destroyed these kinds of teams even though they were cheesing, but this year you made it more difficult for the goal-scorers and literally the same for the cheesers.

    In essence, you have upped the ante in the mechanics and teams need better team play and better skill to get chances and then finally score on them. What you have not addressed are the cheese goals, like the uncontrollable rebound goal that teams use who can't pass, can't get good shots, where all they need to do is fly down the wing, toss a shot to the net at an angle where the goalie should control it, instead it pops out in the slot or the opposite side for an easy rebound goal.

    I agree that goalies should handle the weaker shots way better when it comes to rebounds by deflecting them out of danger with ease more often. They have that ability and do handle them at times but not enough coverage to do it consistently.

    Other than the rebounds, are there other shots/plays you classify as cheese this year?

    Are you playing 6v6 or 3v3?

    What I find when I play is that the off puck human defense doesn't do a great job to defend against rebounds staying goal side and near their assignment. This is especially worse in 3v3 They often shade towards the puck giving them a chance at an interception at times on a pass for a one timer, but they aren't actually playing the man that is setup for that one timer or that can get in behind them for a rebound.

    I find that in that proper positon, I can break up their one timers and defend them from getting to the net for clean rebounds. Also, if I stay in that position, they can't play a pickup or a shot without there stick coming into incidental contact with my stick or body which disrupts their chance.

    Just a few things to consider when looking back at those plays and what you can personally do to improve success on those rebound plays.

    I play both 3v3 and 6v6. I've included a bunch of examples of the rebound goal "cheese". It's not a glitch or bug. I call it an exploit. But maybe a mechanic change can help with goalies (both AI and human) in controlling it.

    Here's an earlier post (NHL 18) of a human goalie complaining that it is difficult for him to control very soft wristers coming at him from 45 degree angles where a save kicks it out straight to the player on the opposite wing. He's got a great video detailing this and there are great examples of the same happening this year. If that winger is an AI instead of him, what do you want him to do? If your D man is an AI, he's really not going to do anything but let that player skate right up for the rebound shot. Fact of the matter is that the goalies (AI) need to control these soft wristers. Off wing wrist shots to the far side pads will always lead to a kickout straight to an opposing player.

    https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/198379/rebounds-the-easiest-way-to-score

    Here is another great video that tries to teach goalies to anticipate the rebound shot between 3:40 and 5:40. He mentions that good teams will try to exploit this plenty. If only the AI goalie learned to anticipate the shot or was capable enough to craddle the puck for a stop. Or even better, with slow shots the puck speed should die on the pads. No reason for the goalie to check norris kick the puck out to the opposite corner for a wide net rebound put in.



    Here are a few of my own examples. I haven't played any Club since you posted, so I had to settle for pickups. In Club, these cheese shots can be coordinated much better when you're talking to your team. Even in drop ins, where no one is talking, people usually notice what's going to happen when a forward is streaking down the wing and pops a low, far side shot towards the goalie.

    duyXbPM.gif

    This one is one of my favorite. Human goalie doesn't even looks like he kicks it out. He goes down for a butterfly (where the puck should stop right in front of him, but shoots out to the opposite). The AI D holds up the player for a half-second, let's the player skate right by him and tucks in that trusty rebound.

    XxjScJM.gif

    Here zone entry for a typical try at the rebound cheese. This player is even above the circles. Really, it doesn't matter where it is or if it is a rush play, or a quick cycle. The goalie is not handling these very well. 2 out of the 3 goals scored here were from this.

    HoBtoZk.gif


    If you scroll all the way back to my OP where I talk about dominating. More times than not, a team that gets dominated in their own zone and has a chance to breakout will keep trying for this rebound play, over and over. Talking about defending it is very easy, but put into practice it's only a matter of time before you get beat by this crap. I'm not sure about before NHL 18, but last year this was a problem as well.

    Now to the glitch goals. I don't play enough 3v3 for breakaways to always occur, but there seems to be goals that work enough times over and over to be called exploits/glitch. These don't bother me much, but you asked. You can also find more examples on Reddit and on YT searches.

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