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Dynamic difficulty is ruining versus play

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  • Sigh...do you know how many patents exist, but are never actually used? You're making an assumption on what is happening without the necessary proof. If that's what you want to believe, then fine, but it doesn't make it true. You even use the word "potentially" meaning it sounds like you are unsure of it yourself.

    Also, this patent does not specifically state what game they are looking at. You can find articles stating this is directed at their mobile divisions. Some other articles say they "believe" it's been implemented in Madden, FIFA, and NHL, but they even say in the same articles they have no evidence to say this is true.

    Riiight because EA did this just for fun. It proves EA is in fact interested and considering using this. If you need proof like a game designer from EA announcing that they use a system like DDA then I don't know what to tell you.

    You should actually read what I said and possibly look more deeply into the patent. The papers were done for using a different kind of matchmaking system (EOMM). It's a tool used to match different players before the game starts. A little different than manipulating sliders.

    Someone even looked into a recent Fifa game for the PC and found scripting within a file that actually modifies the in-game difficulty.
  • ExSnake01 wrote: »

    Sigh...do you know how many patents exist, but are never actually used? You're making an assumption on what is happening without the necessary proof. If that's what you want to believe, then fine, but it doesn't make it true. You even use the word "potentially" meaning it sounds like you are unsure of it yourself.

    Also, this patent does not specifically state what game they are looking at. You can find articles stating this is directed at their mobile divisions. Some other articles say they "believe" it's been implemented in Madden, FIFA, and NHL, but they even say in the same articles they have no evidence to say this is true.

    Riiight because EA did this just for fun. It proves EA is in fact interested and considering using this. If you need proof like a game designer from EA announcing that they use a system like DDA then I don't know what to tell you.

    You should actually read what I said and possibly look more deeply into the patent. The papers were done for using a different kind of matchmaking system (EOMM). It's a tool used to match different players before the game starts. A little different than manipulating sliders.

    Someone even looked into a recent Fifa game for the PC and found scripting within a file that actually modifies the in-game difficulty.

    Where did you find the EOMM in the patent? I want to read that section to see why it is believed to be directed at console specifically.

    Also, can you link an article explaining the FIFA scripting?
  • Not to mention the MUT developer who admitted that this is how the game works, then retracted his words. This is a fact Someone somewhere may have proof of this.

  • Where did you find the EOMM in the patent? I want to read that section to see why it is believed to be directed at console specifically.

    Also, can you link an article explaining the FIFA scripting?

    fifa scripting

    MULTIPLAYER VIDEO GAME MATCHMAKING OPTIMIZATION

    The people who play Fifa talk quite a bit about DDA. It turns out the older Fifa games had momentum bars too.

  • ExSnake01 wrote: »

    LOL. These threads are always entertaining if nothing else.

    The only thing being manipulated is your imagination and it is your own doing. You mean to tell me you actually believe anything you wrote here?

    Yes they did say it was literally built from the ground up, and in a way it is true. The game did not exist on current gen, so it was indeed made from the ground up. Yes yes we know all about the recycled code etc etc. It was simply a play on words and a slight exaggeration, but never-the-less, there is still truth to what they said.

    It's currently happening whether you believe it or not.

    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2017/0259177.html

    The game wasn't built from ground up when we experienced the same exact issues 10+ years ago. The code was recycled with some new animations and prettier graphics.

    Wow. You clearly read what you want, miss a bunch of details, then reply according to the current rail you are riding. There is no derailing this thought of yours and you are stuck on details that have no bearing on the discussion.

    Sorry, but this is where I bail. Your mind is made up, no use arguing about it for the next 6 weeks.

    Good day to you fine sir.
  • Socair
    2799 posts Game Changer
    Why does this thread exist if this code makes it easier for less skilled players? https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/233530/new-players-and-below-average-players-got-screwed#latest
  • jake19ny
    688 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Socair wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    I find it hard to believe that EA would invest time in getting a patent for something they don’t plan on using. I understand being skeptical but in the age of micro transactions it is plausible and would be desirable for them to include this in the game. It’s fine if you don’t buy into but what would be a good reason for EA not to use it?
    That people would stop buying their full price games knowing they are rigged?
    If it’s implemented into free or $0.99 apps as a way to keep people engaged and to trigger add on purchases, fine... but having people know that a $70 major console/PC game is coded to balance the game to make it harder for you to win would kill sales.

    Hence the blanket denials without addressing specific questions regarding things people experience. Once again after being told to ask the questions I got 2 replies that didn’t address the questions in anyway and then zip. To believe they put it in free or .99 cent apps for the reasons you state but not do it in a full price game is putting far to much trust in a company who’s games have become somewhat stale and that relies heavily on micro transactions. You guys think it’s tinfoil hat to believe it it I think it’s naive not to.
  • ExSnake01 wrote: »

    Where did you find the EOMM in the patent? I want to read that section to see why it is believed to be directed at console specifically.

    Also, can you link an article explaining the FIFA scripting?

    fifa scripting

    MULTIPLAYER VIDEO GAME MATCHMAKING OPTIMIZATION

    The people who play Fifa talk quite a bit about DDA. It turns out the older Fifa games had momentum bars too.

    This was proven to simply be an offline A.I. adjustment code.

    The people who read that and say it translates to online A.I. are clueless, IMO.

    Why wouldn't the offline mode dynamically adjust? Like honestly - does everyone want to play against a CPU that never adjusts strategies or ups the pressure in situations where the human is dominating?
  • We all know for a fact that modifications were used in previous versions of the game the went BEYOND the difficulty setting and sliders.

    Hot and cold player and team streaks
    Goalie fatigue
    Salary cap
    Line chemistry or lack thereof

    Even if EA Doesn't outwardly admit these modifiers are in their current game, how can the dev team and many on this board deny the above? You act like we should wearing tin foil hats? All this psychoanalysis about competitive gaming and coping with loses... lol! What ??? This isn't the product of someone's imaginations.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    ExSnake01 wrote: »

    Because many people do not like the idea of a competitive game modifying the difficulty on the fly. This is a controversial selling point.

    This is not in NHL.

  • This was proven to simply be an offline A.I. adjustment code.

    The people who read that and say it translates to online A.I. are clueless, IMO.

    Why wouldn't the offline mode dynamically adjust? Like honestly - does everyone want to play against a CPU that never adjusts strategies or ups the pressure in situations where the human is dominating?

    So there are two sets of code where one applies to online and the other offline? Can you link that proof for me to look at?

    If the game makes things like passing or scoring easier or more difficult, that sounds more of a handicap/boosting. Thats not adjusting strategies. Its more along the lines of ai having to cheat to be more challenging.

    Across hut, fut and mut gamemodes EA are making hundreds of millions. I think they will try to find ways to make people spend cash if their team is playing awful.
  • Something is off. I’m getting beaten by cr 400-500 players mostly by lucky goals. I’m cr580. I get very close matches with cr650-700 players, and sometimes can win. Is it just bad luck with how lag swings the odds or handicapping?
  • I have no idea what the OP is on about. My CR in nhl18 ovp was like 800ish and I could maintain it at that level once I got to it. I didnt notice any artificial points barrier or games being rigged because I was ranked too high. Also.. I dont quite understand your double pokecheck statement. Can you provide more detail or video of this happening ?
  • ExSnake01 wrote: »

    This was proven to simply be an offline A.I. adjustment code.

    The people who read that and say it translates to online A.I. are clueless, IMO.

    Why wouldn't the offline mode dynamically adjust? Like honestly - does everyone want to play against a CPU that never adjusts strategies or ups the pressure in situations where the human is dominating?

    So there are two sets of code where one applies to online and the other offline? Can you link that proof for me to look at?

    If the game makes things like passing or scoring easier or more difficult, that sounds more of a handicap/boosting. Thats not adjusting strategies. Its more along the lines of ai having to cheat to be more challenging.

    Adjusting a strategy successfully results in passes and shots being more successful. That's how and why strategies work.

    So, if the CPU successfully counters your current strategy with one of their own - is it ice tilt or a good strategic move by the cpu? And what proof do you have to make a claim that it's ice tilt?

    And in order to preemptively stop you from trying to say something like, "Where's the proof that it's NOT ice tilt?" I will say this; The onus is on those making the extraordinary claim that ice tilt exists to provide the evidence. It is not up to the defendant (in this case, EA SPORTS) to provide proof that it doesn't.

    What I find interesting is how many people around here will take the developer's word on gameplay mechanics and changes that align with their own beliefs or narratives but when it comes to the developers flat out saying that these types of mechanics (ice tilt/DDA/etc) don't exist, suddenly their word becomes meaningless in the chaos of conspiracy theories.

  • ExSnake01 wrote: »

    This was proven to simply be an offline A.I. adjustment code.

    The people who read that and say it translates to online A.I. are clueless, IMO.

    Why wouldn't the offline mode dynamically adjust? Like honestly - does everyone want to play against a CPU that never adjusts strategies or ups the pressure in situations where the human is dominating?

    So there are two sets of code where one applies to online and the other offline? Can you link that proof for me to look at?

    If the game makes things like passing or scoring easier or more difficult, that sounds more of a handicap/boosting. Thats not adjusting strategies. Its more along the lines of ai having to cheat to be more challenging.

    Adjusting a strategy successfully results in passes and shots being more successful. That's how and why strategies work.

    So, if the CPU successfully counters your current strategy with one of their own - is it ice tilt or a good strategic move by the cpu? And what proof do you have to make a claim that it's ice tilt?

    And in order to preemptively stop you from trying to say something like, "Where's the proof that it's NOT ice tilt?" I will say this; The onus is on those making the extraordinary claim that ice tilt exists to provide the evidence. It is not up to the defendant (in this case, EA SPORTS) to provide proof that it doesn't.

    What I find interesting is how many people around here will take the developer's word on gameplay mechanics and changes that align with their own beliefs or narratives but when it comes to the developers flat out saying that these types of mechanics (ice tilt/DDA/etc) don't exist, suddenly their word becomes meaningless in the chaos of conspiracy theories.

    I don’t care if it’s ice tilt, DDA, a game flaw, or something else.....I’m just waiting for the 3 specific questions I was asked to post that address 90% of what people are complaining about. Answers by a Dev that explain those things will suffice for me. I can’t speak for anyone else. However this is the second time in 2 releases I’ve asked the same questions to a Dev and the conversation ends. Think what you will about that but it only furthers suspicion.
  • Socair
    2799 posts Game Changer
    jake19ny wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »

    This was proven to simply be an offline A.I. adjustment code.

    The people who read that and say it translates to online A.I. are clueless, IMO.

    Why wouldn't the offline mode dynamically adjust? Like honestly - does everyone want to play against a CPU that never adjusts strategies or ups the pressure in situations where the human is dominating?

    So there are two sets of code where one applies to online and the other offline? Can you link that proof for me to look at?

    If the game makes things like passing or scoring easier or more difficult, that sounds more of a handicap/boosting. Thats not adjusting strategies. Its more along the lines of ai having to cheat to be more challenging.

    Adjusting a strategy successfully results in passes and shots being more successful. That's how and why strategies work.

    So, if the CPU successfully counters your current strategy with one of their own - is it ice tilt or a good strategic move by the cpu? And what proof do you have to make a claim that it's ice tilt?

    And in order to preemptively stop you from trying to say something like, "Where's the proof that it's NOT ice tilt?" I will say this; The onus is on those making the extraordinary claim that ice tilt exists to provide the evidence. It is not up to the defendant (in this case, EA SPORTS) to provide proof that it doesn't.

    What I find interesting is how many people around here will take the developer's word on gameplay mechanics and changes that align with their own beliefs or narratives but when it comes to the developers flat out saying that these types of mechanics (ice tilt/DDA/etc) don't exist, suddenly their word becomes meaningless in the chaos of conspiracy theories.

    I don’t care if it’s ice tilt, DDA, a game flaw, or something else.....I’m just waiting for the 3 specific questions I was asked to post that address 90% of what people are complaining about. Answers by a Dev that explain those things will suffice for me. I can’t speak for anyone else. However this is the second time in 2 releases I’ve asked the same questions to a Dev and the conversation ends. Think what you will about that but it only furthers suspicion.
    He asked for you to post your last ten versus games and the CR’s of your opponents. To analyse before answering your questions.

    You are referencing HUT though, right? I guess you could do the same, but show records. But then you would just say you barely squeaked out a win versus the teams with the poor record. HUT has more variables than versus, with boosted cards and synergies to consider.

    Again, there was also a thread recently where someone was complaining that the lower skilled guys don’t have a chance. I also see other posts where people complain about stacked “pay to win” teams and how it’s not fair that their mid 80’s overall team is matching up with them.

    Plus these P2P modes are so connection dependant, anything is possible. You can have a nice smooth, low ping, but the games just don’t play as consistent as they do on a server.
  • Socair wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »

    This was proven to simply be an offline A.I. adjustment code.

    The people who read that and say it translates to online A.I. are clueless, IMO.

    Why wouldn't the offline mode dynamically adjust? Like honestly - does everyone want to play against a CPU that never adjusts strategies or ups the pressure in situations where the human is dominating?

    So there are two sets of code where one applies to online and the other offline? Can you link that proof for me to look at?

    If the game makes things like passing or scoring easier or more difficult, that sounds more of a handicap/boosting. Thats not adjusting strategies. Its more along the lines of ai having to cheat to be more challenging.

    Adjusting a strategy successfully results in passes and shots being more successful. That's how and why strategies work.

    So, if the CPU successfully counters your current strategy with one of their own - is it ice tilt or a good strategic move by the cpu? And what proof do you have to make a claim that it's ice tilt?

    And in order to preemptively stop you from trying to say something like, "Where's the proof that it's NOT ice tilt?" I will say this; The onus is on those making the extraordinary claim that ice tilt exists to provide the evidence. It is not up to the defendant (in this case, EA SPORTS) to provide proof that it doesn't.

    What I find interesting is how many people around here will take the developer's word on gameplay mechanics and changes that align with their own beliefs or narratives but when it comes to the developers flat out saying that these types of mechanics (ice tilt/DDA/etc) don't exist, suddenly their word becomes meaningless in the chaos of conspiracy theories.

    I don’t care if it’s ice tilt, DDA, a game flaw, or something else.....I’m just waiting for the 3 specific questions I was asked to post that address 90% of what people are complaining about. Answers by a Dev that explain those things will suffice for me. I can’t speak for anyone else. However this is the second time in 2 releases I’ve asked the same questions to a Dev and the conversation ends. Think what you will about that but it only furthers suspicion.
    He asked for you to post your last ten versus games and the CR’s of your opponents. To analyse before answering your questions.

    You are referencing HUT though, right? I guess you could do the same, but show records. But then you would just say you barely squeaked out a win versus the teams with the poor record. HUT has more variables than versus, with boosted cards and synergies to consider.

    Again, there was also a thread recently where someone was complaining that the lower skilled guys don’t have a chance. I also see other posts where people complain about stacked “pay to win” teams and how it’s not fair that their mid 80’s overall team is matching up with them.

    Plus these P2P modes are so connection dependant, anything is possible. You can have a nice smooth, low ping, but the games just don’t play as consistent as they do on a server.

    This whole topic is a complete waste of time. People believe what they want, and that's that.
  • Socair wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »

    This was proven to simply be an offline A.I. adjustment code.

    The people who read that and say it translates to online A.I. are clueless, IMO.

    Why wouldn't the offline mode dynamically adjust? Like honestly - does everyone want to play against a CPU that never adjusts strategies or ups the pressure in situations where the human is dominating?

    So there are two sets of code where one applies to online and the other offline? Can you link that proof for me to look at?

    If the game makes things like passing or scoring easier or more difficult, that sounds more of a handicap/boosting. Thats not adjusting strategies. Its more along the lines of ai having to cheat to be more challenging.

    Adjusting a strategy successfully results in passes and shots being more successful. That's how and why strategies work.

    So, if the CPU successfully counters your current strategy with one of their own - is it ice tilt or a good strategic move by the cpu? And what proof do you have to make a claim that it's ice tilt?

    And in order to preemptively stop you from trying to say something like, "Where's the proof that it's NOT ice tilt?" I will say this; The onus is on those making the extraordinary claim that ice tilt exists to provide the evidence. It is not up to the defendant (in this case, EA SPORTS) to provide proof that it doesn't.

    What I find interesting is how many people around here will take the developer's word on gameplay mechanics and changes that align with their own beliefs or narratives but when it comes to the developers flat out saying that these types of mechanics (ice tilt/DDA/etc) don't exist, suddenly their word becomes meaningless in the chaos of conspiracy theories.

    I don’t care if it’s ice tilt, DDA, a game flaw, or something else.....I’m just waiting for the 3 specific questions I was asked to post that address 90% of what people are complaining about. Answers by a Dev that explain those things will suffice for me. I can’t speak for anyone else. However this is the second time in 2 releases I’ve asked the same questions to a Dev and the conversation ends. Think what you will about that but it only furthers suspicion.
    He asked for you to post your last ten versus games and the CR’s of your opponents. To analyse before answering your questions.

    You are referencing HUT though, right? I guess you could do the same, but show records. But then you would just say you barely squeaked out a win versus the teams with the poor record. HUT has more variables than versus, with boosted cards and synergies to consider.

    Again, there was also a thread recently where someone was complaining that the lower skilled guys don’t have a chance. I also see other posts where people complain about stacked “pay to win” teams and how it’s not fair that their mid 80’s overall team is matching up with them.

    Plus these P2P modes are so connection dependant, anything is possible. You can have a nice smooth, low ping, but the games just don’t play as consistent as they do on a server.

    This whole topic is a complete waste of time. People believe what they want, and that's that.

    Yes, people believe what they want.

    However, when those beliefs are being formulated based on topics such as this one, it becomes a problem. The beliefs that they are formulating are based off of pure rumor, speculation and hyperbole while simultaneously disregarding the official stance on the matter - which is that ice tilt, flat out - does not exist.

    When our beliefs are challenged, we are supposed to look at the objective evidence to decide whether those beliefs are rooted in truth.

    When you have something like the 'code' posted on Reddit in regards to FIFA DDA and making it out to be truth - or some kind of evidence to support the DDA/Ice Tilt theory - that introduces false evidence which muddies the waters even more.

    You're right - people will believe what they want. Those who can't take a losing streak or are unable to come to grips with not being as dominant at they think they should be, tend to want to believe ice tilt/DDA exists and yes, that will never change.
  • Socair wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »

    This was proven to simply be an offline A.I. adjustment code.

    The people who read that and say it translates to online A.I. are clueless, IMO.

    Why wouldn't the offline mode dynamically adjust? Like honestly - does everyone want to play against a CPU that never adjusts strategies or ups the pressure in situations where the human is dominating?

    So there are two sets of code where one applies to online and the other offline? Can you link that proof for me to look at?

    If the game makes things like passing or scoring easier or more difficult, that sounds more of a handicap/boosting. Thats not adjusting strategies. Its more along the lines of ai having to cheat to be more challenging.

    Adjusting a strategy successfully results in passes and shots being more successful. That's how and why strategies work.

    So, if the CPU successfully counters your current strategy with one of their own - is it ice tilt or a good strategic move by the cpu? And what proof do you have to make a claim that it's ice tilt?

    And in order to preemptively stop you from trying to say something like, "Where's the proof that it's NOT ice tilt?" I will say this; The onus is on those making the extraordinary claim that ice tilt exists to provide the evidence. It is not up to the defendant (in this case, EA SPORTS) to provide proof that it doesn't.

    What I find interesting is how many people around here will take the developer's word on gameplay mechanics and changes that align with their own beliefs or narratives but when it comes to the developers flat out saying that these types of mechanics (ice tilt/DDA/etc) don't exist, suddenly their word becomes meaningless in the chaos of conspiracy theories.

    I don’t care if it’s ice tilt, DDA, a game flaw, or something else.....I’m just waiting for the 3 specific questions I was asked to post that address 90% of what people are complaining about. Answers by a Dev that explain those things will suffice for me. I can’t speak for anyone else. However this is the second time in 2 releases I’ve asked the same questions to a Dev and the conversation ends. Think what you will about that but it only furthers suspicion.
    He asked for you to post your last ten versus games and the CR’s of your opponents. To analyse before answering your questions.

    You are referencing HUT though, right? I guess you could do the same, but show records. But then you would just say you barely squeaked out a win versus the teams with the poor record. HUT has more variables than versus, with boosted cards and synergies to consider.

    Again, there was also a thread recently where someone was complaining that the lower skilled guys don’t have a chance. I also see other posts where people complain about stacked “pay to win” teams and how it’s not fair that their mid 80’s overall team is matching up with them.

    Plus these P2P modes are so connection dependant, anything is possible. You can have a nice smooth, low ping, but the games just don’t play as consistent as they do on a server.

    This whole topic is a complete waste of time. People believe what they want, and that's that.

    Yes, people believe what they want.

    However, when those beliefs are being formulated based on topics such as this one, it becomes a problem. The beliefs that they are formulating are based off of pure rumor, speculation and hyperbole while simultaneously disregarding the official stance on the matter - which is that ice tilt, flat out - does not exist.

    When our beliefs are challenged, we are supposed to look at the objective evidence to decide whether those beliefs are rooted in truth.

    When you have something like the 'code' posted on Reddit in regards to FIFA DDA and making it out to be truth - or some kind of evidence to support the DDA/Ice Tilt theory - that introduces false evidence which muddies the waters even more.

    You're right - people will believe what they want. Those who can't take a losing streak or are unable to come to grips with not being as dominant at they think they should be, tend to want to believe ice tilt/DDA exists and yes, that will never change.

    Nicely said.

    However, it isn't just losing streaks. There are times where I score a goal and say to myself, "wow, that was complete garbage". Happens sometimes as well when I get scored against. But this will never lead me to believe tilt exists. Faulty coding, or bad infrastructure and iffy servers I could believe in, but not tilt.
  • Nicely said.

    However, it isn't just losing streaks. There are times where I score a goal and say to myself, "wow, that was complete garbage". Happens sometimes as well when I get scored against. But this will never lead me to believe tilt exists. Faulty coding, or bad infrastructure and iffy servers I could believe in, but not tilt.

    This is pretty much the same view I have. What's sad is that if you can come to grips with the game mechanics, you'll have much more success. But it doesn't make the game more enjoyable... In fact it makes it less so.

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