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Dynamic difficulty is ruining versus play

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  • HockeyCityUSA
    504 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    Also something I find really sad is whenever somebody shows clips nobody ever acknowledged them on this forum.

    And people specifically ask for clips... I don't get it.

    Go back to some of the clips you posted in those threads. I critiqued some of them and you never responded. (at least I didn't see a response to them) So I figured you just didn't like my response and didn't want to answer back. I mean my feelings aren't hurt or anything like that, I'm just saying I acknowledge, and I try to do so in which it will assist that player.
  • I post this not because people on these forums don't know what it is, but to look at the last sentence I quoted. This is what many of us are trying to say. Yes, you are correct, evidence is being provided, but is it really that sufficient? Many are saying, "Hey, there's a patent!" So EA must have already put this in the game. All this means is they are planning to do something one of there games. Whether that is on console, computer, or mobile, that's all we know.

    No, it doesn't mean they are planning to do something on "one" of their games, as my post above shows a line taken directly out of the patent that the patent is open to all types of games on all platforms. I would suggest taking 10 mins of your time to actually read through the patent.

    And yes, I believe talking about the actual paragraphs from the actual real patent creates at least "reasonable doubt". If im on a jury, and im being 100% objective, and side A comes with a patent from the company on trial outlining in full detail an entire complex system to manipulate their games, and Side B's entire argument is that Side A believes in "Voodoo", I know which one is going to do better in that trial. That doesn't make it a open and shut case, but it sure as hell creates a high level of reasonable doubt.

    Some have said "The devs have said its not in!". Well, if they have, I haven't seen it yet. And it's entirely possible they have, and I just didn't see it. I haven't read every post ever on this forum. I've seem them dance around it a bit, but I have yet to hear them say "It is absolutely, definitely 100% not in our game." It's also entirely possible that they themselves don't even know it's in, just like they tell you that there is different departments for graphics, networking, etc.

    No one on this forum is going to know with 100% certainty if it is in or not, and I don't believe that those who believe DDA is in the game are even looking for that. but can you not admit that there is enough circumstantial evidence that there is a very reasonable chance that it is? I think that's really all we're looking for you to admit.
  • NYR_Nick wrote: »
    NYR_Nick wrote: »
    I've posted this several times..

    Hot cold player and team streaks
    Goalie fatigue
    Line chemistry
    Salary cap
    In game momentum engine


    All the above affected your team outside of the sliders and the difficulty

    Other than line chemistry, which is now called Synergies and only in HUT, all the rest is not in the game.

    How do you know it's not? They're not marketing these modifiers as "features " of the gameplay, but there's no reason to believe this isn't still going on in the code.

    My point is, if they had modifiers in the game previously, ones that affected THE WAY YOUR TEAM PERFORMS... why is it so hard to believe they could include them again? Why is this so hard for people to accept?

    Do you remember the momentum meter?
    Getting good or bad momentum was contingent on how you were performing in game.... if you played poorly, the performance of your team would reflect that...and vice versa.

    This is how they formulated the hot, cold streak modifiers...

    For the love of God, you guys can argue any point and then say how do we know it's not.

    I do not believe in ghosts or haunted houses. You also gonna say how do I know they don't exist?

    Devs have said there is none of this in the game. They didn't reply with snake-in-the-grass words, they have explicitly said, no, it isn't. There is no room for interpretation here. It is black on white.

    You want to believe the game is against you? Fine, go ahead. I can tell you right now, connection is the main culprit and putting HUT and VS in a p2p environment is the dumbest thing they could ever possibly do, and it leads to these kinds of discussions.

    It's obvious that you wholeheartedly trust EA, and couldn't conceive any reason why they would not want to openly divulge any information regarding a game mode that continues to drive revenue after the initial purchase.

    I stated several in game modifiers that EA used to affect game play outside of the sliders and difficulty.

    The fact that they used them is proof enough to anyone with eyes to see.

  • NYR_Nick wrote: »
    NYR_Nick wrote: »
    I've posted this several times..

    Hot cold player and team streaks
    Goalie fatigue
    Line chemistry
    Salary cap
    In game momentum engine


    All the above affected your team outside of the sliders and the difficulty

    Other than line chemistry, which is now called Synergies and only in HUT, all the rest is not in the game.

    How do you know it's not? They're not marketing these modifiers as "features " of the gameplay, but there's no reason to believe this isn't still going on in the code.

    My point is, if they had modifiers in the game previously, ones that affected THE WAY YOUR TEAM PERFORMS... why is it so hard to believe they could include them again? Why is this so hard for people to accept?

    Do you remember the momentum meter?
    Getting good or bad momentum was contingent on how you were performing in game.... if you played poorly, the performance of your team would reflect that...and vice versa.

    This is how they formulated the hot, cold streak modifiers...

    For the love of God, you guys can argue any point and then say how do we know it's not.

    I do not believe in ghosts or haunted houses. You also gonna say how do I know they don't exist?

    Devs have said there is none of this in the game. They didn't reply with snake-in-the-grass words, they have explicitly said, no, it isn't. There is no room for interpretation here. It is black on white.

    You want to believe the game is against you? Fine, go ahead. I can tell you right now, connection is the main culprit and putting HUT and VS in a p2p environment is the dumbest thing they could ever possibly do, and it leads to these kinds of discussions.

    Simply put, EA said no. If people want to create hypothetical theories explaining that EA is incorrect or they are lying to us, go for it. They are all what if scenarios as there has nothing been said or done to prove that DDA/ice tilt/or whatever it's being called is in this game.

    But to respond with "How do you know it's not in the game?" is a ridiculous question in itself and defeats the purpose of a debate. You can't respond to a question with the negation of that same exact question. This isn't grade school. Provide real evidence stating your case.
    .

    People who have good internet, and low ping are looking for answers. All it takes is "NO" from EA to satisfy your burning curiosity. .. others are not so trusting when there's $$ involved.

    If modifiers existied in the game Once, they were there for a reason.

    Hot /cold team and player streaks
    Line chemistry, goalie fatigue
    Momentum meter

    No boogeyman.

  • NYR_Nick wrote: »
    NYR_Nick wrote: »
    NYR_Nick wrote: »
    I've posted this several times..

    Hot cold player and team streaks
    Goalie fatigue
    Line chemistry
    Salary cap
    In game momentum engine


    All the above affected your team outside of the sliders and the difficulty

    Other than line chemistry, which is now called Synergies and only in HUT, all the rest is not in the game.

    How do you know it's not? They're not marketing these modifiers as "features " of the gameplay, but there's no reason to believe this isn't still going on in the code.

    My point is, if they had modifiers in the game previously, ones that affected THE WAY YOUR TEAM PERFORMS... why is it so hard to believe they could include them again? Why is this so hard for people to accept?

    Do you remember the momentum meter?
    Getting good or bad momentum was contingent on how you were performing in game.... if you played poorly, the performance of your team would reflect that...and vice versa.

    This is how they formulated the hot, cold streak modifiers...

    For the love of God, you guys can argue any point and then say how do we know it's not.

    I do not believe in ghosts or haunted houses. You also gonna say how do I know they don't exist?

    Devs have said there is none of this in the game. They didn't reply with snake-in-the-grass words, they have explicitly said, no, it isn't. There is no room for interpretation here. It is black on white.

    You want to believe the game is against you? Fine, go ahead. I can tell you right now, connection is the main culprit and putting HUT and VS in a p2p environment is the dumbest thing they could ever possibly do, and it leads to these kinds of discussions.

    Simply put, EA said no. If people want to create hypothetical theories explaining that EA is incorrect or they are lying to us, go for it. They are all what if scenarios as there has nothing been said or done to prove that DDA/ice tilt/or whatever it's being called is in this game.

    But to respond with "How do you know it's not in the game?" is a ridiculous question in itself and defeats the purpose of a debate. You can't respond to a question with the negation of that same exact question. This isn't grade school. Provide real evidence stating your case.
    .

    People who have good internet, and low ping are looking for answers. All it takes is "NO" from EA to satisfy your burning curiosity. .. others are not so trusting when there's $$ involved.

    If modifiers existied in the game Once, they were there for a reason.

    Hot /cold team and player streaks
    Line chemistry, goalie fatigue
    Momentum meter

    No boogeyman.

    That was indeed in previous titles. Striving for more realism, not striving to steal from ya dubbya column.
  • Also something I find really sad is whenever somebody shows clips nobody ever acknowledged them on this forum.

    And people specifically ask for clips... I don't get it.

    Go back to some of the clips you posted in those threads. I critiqued some of them and you never responded. (at least I didn't see a response to them) So I figured you just didn't like my response and didn't want to answer back. I mean my feelings aren't hurt or anything like that, I'm just saying I acknowledge, and I try to do so in which it will assist that player.

    No I'm talking about the other people posting stuff. I think my clips and around 25% of majamajams or what's his name is only get discussed. It's odd. I had replied to you as well by the way. You're probably the only one discussing it rather than saying "your defense sucks bro". Which in itself I found hilarious considering I rarely get scored on, and much less so over a goal against lol
  • NYR_Nick wrote: »
    NYR_Nick wrote: »
    NYR_Nick wrote: »
    I've posted this several times..

    Hot cold player and team streaks
    Goalie fatigue
    Line chemistry
    Salary cap
    In game momentum engine


    All the above affected your team outside of the sliders and the difficulty

    Other than line chemistry, which is now called Synergies and only in HUT, all the rest is not in the game.

    How do you know it's not? They're not marketing these modifiers as "features " of the gameplay, but there's no reason to believe this isn't still going on in the code.

    My point is, if they had modifiers in the game previously, ones that affected THE WAY YOUR TEAM PERFORMS... why is it so hard to believe they could include them again? Why is this so hard for people to accept?

    Do you remember the momentum meter?
    Getting good or bad momentum was contingent on how you were performing in game.... if you played poorly, the performance of your team would reflect that...and vice versa.

    This is how they formulated the hot, cold streak modifiers...

    For the love of God, you guys can argue any point and then say how do we know it's not.

    I do not believe in ghosts or haunted houses. You also gonna say how do I know they don't exist?

    Devs have said there is none of this in the game. They didn't reply with snake-in-the-grass words, they have explicitly said, no, it isn't. There is no room for interpretation here. It is black on white.

    You want to believe the game is against you? Fine, go ahead. I can tell you right now, connection is the main culprit and putting HUT and VS in a p2p environment is the dumbest thing they could ever possibly do, and it leads to these kinds of discussions.

    Simply put, EA said no. If people want to create hypothetical theories explaining that EA is incorrect or they are lying to us, go for it. They are all what if scenarios as there has nothing been said or done to prove that DDA/ice tilt/or whatever it's being called is in this game.

    But to respond with "How do you know it's not in the game?" is a ridiculous question in itself and defeats the purpose of a debate. You can't respond to a question with the negation of that same exact question. This isn't grade school. Provide real evidence stating your case.
    .

    People who have good internet, and low ping are looking for answers. All it takes is "NO" from EA to satisfy your burning curiosity. .. others are not so trusting when there's $$ involved.

    If modifiers existied in the game Once, they were there for a reason.

    Hot /cold team and player streaks
    Line chemistry, goalie fatigue
    Momentum meter

    No boogeyman.

    That was indeed in previous titles. Striving for more realism, not striving to steal from ya dubbya column.

    What???
  • VegasJay77 wrote: »
    I post this not because people on these forums don't know what it is, but to look at the last sentence I quoted. This is what many of us are trying to say. Yes, you are correct, evidence is being provided, but is it really that sufficient? Many are saying, "Hey, there's a patent!" So EA must have already put this in the game. All this means is they are planning to do something one of there games. Whether that is on console, computer, or mobile, that's all we know.

    No, it doesn't mean they are planning to do something on "one" of their games, as my post above shows a line taken directly out of the patent that the patent is open to all types of games on all platforms. I would suggest taking 10 mins of your time to actually read through the patent.

    And yes, I believe talking about the actual paragraphs from the actual real patent creates at least "reasonable doubt". If im on a jury, and im being 100% objective, and side A comes with a patent from the company on trial outlining in full detail an entire complex system to manipulate their games, and Side B's entire argument is that Side A believes in "Voodoo", I know which one is going to do better in that trial. That doesn't make it a open and shut case, but it sure as hell creates a high level of reasonable doubt.

    Some have said "The devs have said its not in!". Well, if they have, I haven't seen it yet. And it's entirely possible they have, and I just didn't see it. I haven't read every post ever on this forum. I've seem them dance around it a bit, but I have yet to hear them say "It is absolutely, definitely 100% not in our game." It's also entirely possible that they themselves don't even know it's in, just like they tell you that there is different departments for graphics, networking, etc.

    No one on this forum is going to know with 100% certainty if it is in or not, and I don't believe that those who believe DDA is in the game are even looking for that. but can you not admit that there is enough circumstantial evidence that there is a very reasonable chance that it is? I think that's really all we're looking for you to admit.

    In your first paragraph to your response, I meant we do not specifically know which game this patent is being implemented into, regardless if it's console, PC, or mobile. Meaning yes it very well could affect NHL, but nothing in the patent specifies that it does. I would expect the patent to cover all of the games across all ports. It would be stupid of EA not to do that in my opinion.

    I posted something in a previous thread about these patents. I own a patent with a college colleague for a toothbrush that can dispense the toothpaste right on the bristles with the push of a button. That being said, we had made one prototype 13 years ago and that was it.

    So I understand that this is a bit different, but owning the patent and acting on it are two different things. Now I am not saying, nor have I ever said that EA is attempting to create some modifiers. I'm just trying to point out that there is no evidence showing that is indeed there. And yes, I understand that I have no evidence stating it isn't there. You are correct, there is no certainty in the argument either way. But I do want to point out that ice tilt has been a complaint way before this patent even came out. This thing has only fueled the fire that was started long ago.

    I'll have to dig up a post, but I copy-pasted a Reddit post from one of the community manager. This goes into a lot of detail about the tilt. Heck, it may even be in this post haha.

    Anyways, to answer your final question, I am willing to admit that we could see something in the future based on the evidence brought into this discussion, but I have not witnessed anything personally during my gameplay to state that anything is currently modifying the games that I have played.
  • Also something I find really sad is whenever somebody shows clips nobody ever acknowledged them on this forum.

    And people specifically ask for clips... I don't get it.

    Go back to some of the clips you posted in those threads. I critiqued some of them and you never responded. (at least I didn't see a response to them) So I figured you just didn't like my response and didn't want to answer back. I mean my feelings aren't hurt or anything like that, I'm just saying I acknowledge, and I try to do so in which it will assist that player.

    No I'm talking about the other people posting stuff. I think my clips and around 25% of majamajams or what's his name is only get discussed. It's odd. I had replied to you as well by the way. You're probably the only one discussing it rather than saying "your defense sucks bro". Which in itself I found hilarious considering I rarely get scored on, and much less so over a goal against lol

    Ah ok, I must have missed it. Yeah, these forums have just been way too toxic. And then with all the issues at launch, it seems to be getting worse.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    VegasJay77 wrote: »

    It has now become obvious that you don't understand what's being talked about here. It's also clear you did not read my post on the last page.

    You are saying that people on here believe there are "mystical forces" that are at play with the game. I asked you to provide a link to those who have called them "mystical forces", which you have yet to do, and I also posted direct paragraphs from the DDA Patent, which you also have ignored. The Patent that I have linked in my above post outlines EXACTLY what DDA does and how it does it. There is no need to inject mysticism, voodoo, or any other weird magical practice. You are actively choosing to ignore the patent and fail to read it, even though it is right in front of you and tells you EXACTLY how it accomplishes everything you call "voodoo".

    So when you ask, "What would DDA be then?", well.. why don't you just read the patent, and it will tell you, in fine detail, exactly what it would be. Until you do that, attaching condescending words or making scarecrow arguments to sidestep what is right in front of you wont make it disappear.

    Look, I'm just saying there is no DDA. Never, ever has it been proven to exist in NHL. The Devs have denied it, their community manager denied it, they have said for years there is no ice tilt, catch up logic or whatever. If people want to believe the game forces them to win and lose, so be it. You guys would do far better trying to raise your skill than blame something that doesn't even exist. At least your skill is something you have control over.

  • My intention with this post is to be 100% constructive. These may be criticisms, but criticism is the basis of being constructive. You have to be willing to be critical and accept criticism in order for things to be constructive. This is 100% my intention with this post.
    Thanks for taking the time to go through my clips and comment on them. I’m taking your inputs to heart and will try to put them to practice.
    Still, there are some details I feel needs to be cleared up.



    Your A.I. was coming to cover the center who you dragged out of position. Maybe you shouldn't be skill-zoning so much?
    You say I’m skill-zoning? I don’t get that. As I see it, there are three situations unfolding here.
    Two corner plays with a wide open man in front of the net. I am trying to stay in the passing lanes. Is this where you mean I skill-zone?

    When he passes it back, I see the wide open D to D one-timer opportunity. At this point there’s nothing I can do to stop that. So I stay between the puck carrier and the net. As soon as he passes it over I am "outplayed". I can only watch him shoot and hope to gather a rebound. How is this skill-zoning?

    Then the AI positioning. The entire clip, they are leaving guys wide open in front of the net. Actually, they are leaving guys wide open all over the zone.
    Your advice is to leave the guy in front of net open and chase the puck more, is it?

    Pause the clip @0:02 and play/pause it up to the goal. You will find that the AI was in good positions. They had the player who ended up scoring the goal covered, as well as the guy in front of net.
    Then, as soon as my opponent gets possession of the puck, they decide to abandon their players and swap positions...?
    At this point I have my centre quite naturally placed. If anything, I should have been skill-zoning to keep him in position.
    Also, I don’t see how I both can be dragging my centre out of position AND skill-zoning at the same time? Would you mind clearing up what your advice was here?


    1. Some of your sentences don't make sense, and it's hard to follow what you're trying to say.
    2. The pass went through the defender because he initaited a body check. You can't intercept passes if you're going in for a body check - A.I. included. The A.I. decided to lay the body and the player made a pass at the right time. It didn't go 'through' anyone....
    3. Yep, your controller player missed the pass at the end - there seems to be something up with intercepting the puck while holding vision control. Try not using vision control so much and focus more on utilizing LS more. The animation of vision control interrupts the ability to intercept passes, it seems.

    I am sorry for the broken english, spelling mistakes and all! That is some embarrassingly sloppy writing from me, sorry about that. I’ll try it by timestamps instead.
    I forgot to mention this, @0:00 I’m going down to block a shot, gliding into the shooter without causing a trip, this is a great thing the tuner has given us. Props for EA!
    @0:02 Opponent wins the puck by gliding backwards into me.(!) Then he passes it back where my AI intercepts it. (It DOES happen).
    @0:04 He pokes it from an awkward position, stopping it dead.
    @0:07 He successfully sticklifts around my body. To me, it looks like even the animation has his stick waving through thin air. It is hard to tell from that angle, though.
    @0:09 He passes it straight through the whereabouts of an AI. I see your explanition is that said AI decided to throw a wildly out of position bodycheck. (You see how the checking animation is over before he connects with the player).
    Well, that IS the game deciding to open up a passing lane.
    @0:17 – 0:19 Just watch how my AI is keeping himself in the shadow of opposition, now compare that to how his AI positions themselves in my zone.
    And then finally, the pass going through me. I see you haven’t included this in «yeah, that sucks» moments? Why not? A fix to this would clearly make this game better, why are you defending it?



    1. He didn't 'slam on the breaks'.. he slowed down to get you to bite. And you did - twice. You may have 'placed' your player in what you thought was the right lane - but you bit on his juke - and in doing so, you give up some of your ability to intercept the pass.
    2. There's nothing 50/50 about stick lift. He timed it better and had better positioning than you...
    3. You are skill zoning throughout these clips.. and you even seem to just get so angry you let your player continue gliding away from the play... maybe this has something to do with the things you complain about...
    You’re right, «Slam on the breaks» - That’s some bad wording from me... Again! I promise to try and choose my words wiser.
    Again, I don’t quite get your suggestion. Should I skate slower in case he decides to slow down?
    Also, I am not placing myself here. I am being placed. Still, I’m not biting the second time(@0:03), I am staying in the passing-lane, activating the defensive skill-stick.
    Guess what? It still goes through!
    A loose puck in the corner with two guys chasing it, I’d say there’s a 50/50 on the sticklift.
    His «better positioning» is how he stays back, is it? Well, I take posession and turns away from him, and he sticklifts from faaar away. I can allmost promise you, that if I tried that stunt, I would end up in the box.
    But let’s stay on what actually happened here, not what could have went down.
    About your repeated claims that I am skill zoning. You must be referring to my action @0:08?
    If he had stayed with the puck on his D, I would’ve swapped. Here he one-touches it back, meaning I am still in position with my centre.
    The letting him glide away is not me being angry. That’s me hitting the record button, HA-HA!

    Passing through AI:


    Did you notice how you intercepted the pass at the end? Did you also maybe read the tuner/patch notes to see that A.I. defenders are now 'muted'?
    YES!! YES!! I did notice how I actually intercepted a pass WOOHOOO!!
    Come on man! This should be the norm, not something you need to point out to me.
    AI needed a mute in their incredible ability to throw sticks out in passing lanes. This is just the game deciding that the pass is good, even though there’s a player there that should be able to stop it.
    Your players will not start wide open breakaways:


    Player just got off the bench and you threw a pass out to him - he still needs time to gain speed. The defender did a great job of keeping an eye on him, and when the human took control he was able to catch up and null the breakaway.

    You would realize this success too if you weren't skill zoning so much. Take control of the defender closest to the puck more often.
    That player gets off the bench @0:04. I am playing him the pass @0:06
    Opponents AI will bump you off the puck. Man, I wish mine would do the same:


    You neglected to make a decision with the puck in time and you paid for it. That was an easy one...

    You are right I did not make a decision in time, neither did my opponent. You DO see how my AI slows down right before making contact, while his AI bangs on, right?
    In a game like this it is really hard to find an open man, if you happen to find a chance the result is very likely to be this:


    You found the open man.... and you passed it to him before he was able to generate speed towards the net. Plus you one-timed it off the forehand of the winger.... the winger needs to be on his off-side to get a one-timer you're looking for. In the scenario played out in this video, you would've had more success if you let the winger gain possession and then fire a wrist shot.
    How long do you think I would have to wait before he would generate speed towards the net? That passing lane would’ve been blocked if tried that.
    Thanks for the advice, though. I will try letting on-side wingers gain control before I shoot.
    One of those videos was a 'yea.. that sucks' kind of moment - but the rest were just poor plays on your part and what seems to be a misconception about some of the mechanics in the game.

    Everytime a puck goes through a well placed player, I'm experiencing a "Yea... that sucks" kind of moment.
    And with situation after situation going one way only, the sum of those build up to another one. This is why I chose to have clips from one game, only. Trying to show how one-sided some games are.
    Again, thanks for your inputs. I hope you can clear up some of my questions to you.
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    Sinbin wrote: »

    Look, I'm just saying there is no DDA. Never, ever has it been proven to exist in NHL. The Devs have denied it, their community manager denied it, they have said for years there is no ice tilt, catch up logic or whatever. If people want to believe the game forces them to win and lose, so be it. You guys would do far better trying to raise your skill than blame something that doesn't even exist. At least your skill is something you have control over.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/62950753

    Explain to me how I displayed any type of "skill" in that clip? I just took a shot from the high slot that went in clean. My opponent played defense correctly, he even tried to poke it at the right distance. I did nothing to deserve that win, yet I did.

    Now, granted, in real life, this CAN happen as well. There are random occurrences. Goalies might get partially screened at the wrong time. Weird bounces. Goalie might even be sick or a flash of light dazzled him or he's going through some rough times in his personal life. But that's not something that should HAPPEN in a competitive game mode in a competitive game online.

    The saddest part is that maybe, I'd go out on a limb and say, 4 out of every 6 goals opponents score in NHL 19 online is the same. They get to that sweet spot on the ice, shoot and the goalie looks like he's not even there. Whether he's some CHL 67 ovr or 89 ovr Legend Ron Hextall, it's going in.

    And before you say "Well defend that better", he did. I do. Everyone does what you're supposed to do which is get in front of the shooter or make him favor a shot towards the goalie's strong side. But it doesn't matter whether he shoots glove or blocker side, the game just ALLOWS these goals to happen.

    Is it ice tilt? Is it momentum? Is it DDA? Nope... It's just EA's philosophy of trying to emulate "real life" by including uncertainty of outcome in their game. This lowers the skill gap, because anything can happen at any time. It makes lower skilled players feel good about themselves because they can succeed more often, even if they play a higher skilled player and it makes high skilled players lose their minds trying to figure out how to avoid these random occurrences.

    Lowering the skill gap is the problem, not any kind of magic code that's put in by the evil EA Devs to "getcha"... Which, in my opinion, is much worse than anything Ice Tilt could do because if it was Ice Tilt (or whatever you wanna call it) it would just be a matter of manipulating the code into giving YOU that advantage. Find out what triggers it, then use it to win. But there's not "control" in uncertainty of outcome. It just happens whenever and for whatever reasons.

    Random... Random is NOT realism.

  • ExSnake01
    466 posts Member
    edited November 2018

    I commend the people bringing in videos, pictures, and even articles stating their claims, but unfortunately, the bottom line is there is still 100% no proof that any of these claims are real. If you can provide actual proof that there is something, I really will believe it. Otherwise, I'm chalking it up to connection issues or just bad coding since most of the problems are the same errors that have been in the game prior to that patent everybody keeps referring to was even written up.

    When there is proof and choosing to ignore it doesn't equate to no proof.

    Let me repeat these facts: Momentum bars existed in EA games, producers talking about fights or big hits swinging momentum, patents, paper/studies, scripting to modify difficulty...

    These are all connected to the company EA who happens to make NHL too. A game designer is not going to come here and say, "Hey, you know those packs you bought in HUT? Well, eventually as your team's performance begins to suffer, we encourage you to purchase more packs because of the DDA system."

    EA will never admit to ripping people off. I cannot believe how difficult this is for some to grasp on.

  • ExSnake01 wrote: »

    I commend the people bringing in videos, pictures, and even articles stating their claims, but unfortunately, the bottom line is there is still 100% no proof that any of these claims are real. If you can provide actual proof that there is something, I really will believe it. Otherwise, I'm chalking it up to connection issues or just bad coding since most of the problems are the same errors that have been in the game prior to that patent everybody keeps referring to was even written up.

    When there is proof and choosing to ignore it doesn't equate to no proof.

    Let me repeat these facts: Momentum bars existed in EA games, producers talking about fights or big hits swinging momentum, patents, paper/studies, scripting to modify difficulty...

    These are all connected to the company EA who happens to make NHL too. A game designer is not going to come here and say, "Hey, you know those packs you bought in HUT? Well, eventually as your team's performance begins to suffer, we encourage you to purchase more packs because of the DDA system."

    EA will never admit to ripping people off. I cannot believe how difficult this is for some to grasp on.

    Where is the proof that states that everything you are saying is in NHL 19? If you provide me this evidence, then I'm on your side. Stating facts that don't pertain to NHL 19, is not proof. The key word you used in your post is "existed".

    Now again, I'm not saying EA is not pursuing this, I just do not believe that it is in this game, nor any game for that matter, in the series thus far.

    I have not encountered any of these issues that anyone has stated. I only have 7 losses in 50 something games in VS and in club we are looking at about 15-20 losses in over 100 games. I have never lost a game in which I have "dominated" and I feel I am a pretty decent defenseman that does a really good job at preventing scoring opportunities. Sure, I have been screwed over a few times due to poor puck pickups and/or poor AI play, but overall, I don't see this occur as much as everybody else states it does.

    So call me naive, trusting, or whatever you want, but I will not be convinced EA has done anything to this game. This will be my last post about the topic. I will continue to play a game that I enjoy and hopefully you guys will find what you are looking for.
  • ExSnake01
    466 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    ...

    EA has dedicated time and resources to modifying the difficulty in their games.

    If let's say someone did get the code which shows it's in NHL 19, I think there's a strong possibility this will violate EA's copyright/terms of service which gives EA the legal right to remove and not share such evidence. The code can also work in a server-side environment where it's likely that the users cannot view or get their hands on.

    Or you want evidence from an employee to witness against their own company who gets paychecks from them to admit in rigging their games. You basically want evidence we will never likely see.

    After seeing the proof brought up multiple times here, I think the burden is on the defenders to explain why EA has a track history of modifying difficulty settings in their games.

  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »

    Look, I'm just saying there is no DDA. Never, ever has it been proven to exist in NHL. The Devs have denied it, their community manager denied it, they have said for years there is no ice tilt, catch up logic or whatever. If people want to believe the game forces them to win and lose, so be it. You guys would do far better trying to raise your skill than blame something that doesn't even exist. At least your skill is something you have control over.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/62950753

    Explain to me how I displayed any type of "skill" in that clip? I just took a shot from the high slot that went in clean. My opponent played defense correctly, he even tried to poke it at the right distance. I did nothing to deserve that win, yet I did.

    Now, granted, in real life, this CAN happen as well. There are random occurrences. Goalies might get partially screened at the wrong time. Weird bounces. Goalie might even be sick or a flash of light dazzled him or he's going through some rough times in his personal life. But that's not something that should HAPPEN in a competitive game mode in a competitive game online.

    The saddest part is that maybe, I'd go out on a limb and say, 4 out of every 6 goals opponents score in NHL 19 online is the same. They get to that sweet spot on the ice, shoot and the goalie looks like he's not even there. Whether he's some CHL 67 ovr or 89 ovr Legend Ron Hextall, it's going in.

    And before you say "Well defend that better", he did. I do. Everyone does what you're supposed to do which is get in front of the shooter or make him favor a shot towards the goalie's strong side. But it doesn't matter whether he shoots glove or blocker side, the game just ALLOWS these goals to happen.

    Is it ice tilt? Is it momentum? Is it DDA? Nope... It's just EA's philosophy of trying to emulate "real life" by including uncertainty of outcome in their game. This lowers the skill gap, because anything can happen at any time. It makes lower skilled players feel good about themselves because they can succeed more often, even if they play a higher skilled player and it makes high skilled players lose their minds trying to figure out how to avoid these random occurrences.

    Lowering the skill gap is the problem, not any kind of magic code that's put in by the evil EA Devs to "getcha"... Which, in my opinion, is much worse than anything Ice Tilt could do because if it was Ice Tilt (or whatever you wanna call it) it would just be a matter of manipulating the code into giving YOU that advantage. Find out what triggers it, then use it to win. But there's not "control" in uncertainty of outcome. It just happens whenever and for whatever reasons.

    Random... Random is NOT realism.

    https://www.nhl.com/video/stepans-shorthanded-goal/c-62464603

    Yeah, like you said, goals that shouldn't go in, do in the real world too. You still can take that shot a ton of times and it's not going to go in that often. There's plenty of room in this game for fantastic plays and highlight reel worthy goals. Many people choose to rely on the same shots over and over again rather than play something that resembles good hockey. That's people's choice to play that way. The game doesn't force you to do that. No matter the game, people are going to choose what's easy over what's realistic.
  • To all those saying EA has said it doesn't exist as if that means anything......how many things has EA said that turned out to not be so. I’ve heard better player separation for 3 years now....
  • Socair
    2415 posts Game Changer
    edited November 2018
    jake19ny wrote: »
    To all those saying EA has said it doesn't exist as if that means anything......how many things has EA said that turned out to not be so. I’ve heard better player separation for 3 years now....

    I also find it interesting that so many people say EA can’t program basic game mechanics very well...yet this intelligent code works flawlessly. I mean it has to be some fine programming to know when exactly to read all these simultaneous games and implement dda. But I don’t have any programming expertise, just think it would be tough.
    NHL Series Game Changer & Volunteer Moderator
  • @SpillGal Ignore people who say you skill zone. You're eliminating threats by taking away the most dangerous parts on the ice. It's what the good players do because we've all been burned too much by the ai wandering off when they should be in position. I got accused of the same thing.

    These people have no idea what the difference is between skill zoning how the pros do it and actually eliminating threats by controlling your guys to do so.
  • @SpillGal Ignore people who say you skill zone. You're eliminating threats by taking away the most dangerous parts on the ice. It's what the good players do because we've all been burned too much by the ai wandering off when they should be in position. I got accused of the same thing.

    These people have no idea what the difference is between skill zoning how the pros do it and actually eliminating threats by controlling your guys to do so.

    Thanks mister!
    Actually, I would love to put a lot more pressure on the puck-carrier, at all times. The thread named "Are the forwards overpowered" shows how well that works. We are basically left with staying in between the puck carrier and the net.
    Now, this thread is about dynamic difficulty and I was trying to show how that plays out. I am showing how my AI are leaving guys open, how pucks go through my players, how the "50/50's" always go one way. I am showing how his AI will bump me off the puck, while my AI will do nothing of the sort. How my opponent is faster and my AI won't even start for a breakaway.
    Of course, this might be due to connection (I chose a game where I was the home-team), and has nothing to do with DDA.
    Frankly, I don't care. The result is the same for me as a player, and there's nothing I can do about neither of them. (I have NAT 1, wired, alone on the net and great internet).

    So, you have that. Games that are giving one team the upper hand.
    Plus you have what Venom said in another post in here. A lot of design choices that is an advantage for lesser players. Look at his clip, AI is retrieving the puck for him, his opponent stays in position trying to use the defensive tools he has access to. And that shot going in, is an insult to the goalie that are being digitally represented like that.
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