People often blame the offense for being predictable and boring where it is actually the defense that is at fault if the offense keeps doing the same thing and has success. .
You know, no matter what someone brings up, regardless of here or any other topic anywhere else, there will always be a video to credit or discredit a fact or opinion.
However, there is one key word here: Consistency.
How many goals do you think Crosby will score like this, just this year alone? 2? 3? Can we go as high as 5? Unlikely, but possibly. So how does that compare or relate to your game?
Last year he even scored a one-handed, backhand shot, top shelf. Only one of his career so far and maybe even the only time it has been scored in the NHL. Not consistent at all.
2nd video, sure, it is possible. Does happen on a decent basis in real life, but mostly due to player fatigue and being less capable of defending as that fatigue settles in even more. Are you saying that we cannot hit Danglers because you are imitating player fatigue? Did you also notice in that 2nd video there is practically no attempts to body check carriers? How does that relate to your game?
I seriously and honestly want your opinion here and I am looking for a good back-and-forth discussion. I never back down from a challenge, and something tells me you are up for it. In the end, it's a win-win if I better understand your vision, no?
The Crosby example was mostly a joke as you mentioned they may start playing the game after watching Crosby and how they would take what they learned from the real world and apply it in the game and I was sort of kidding that Crosby breaks most rules so they would come in with a false perception of what is possible.
As for your second point, I think you hit the nail on the head that it is more the defense than anything that is allowing players to keep possession more than the mechanics people like to blame. There is a skill gap on both offense and defense and there are some players capable of holding teams to less than a goal a game that are playing pretty high level competition on a regular basis.
I am not saying there isn't room for improvement but it is easier for everyone to agree on the mechanics being the issue as then nobody other than the game has to accept any responsibility.
Not managing player fatigue, over committing, and going for hits when you shouldn't certainly contribute to mistakes and penalties on defense. And you are right, when a team is trying to contain but the puck is well protected and the relative speed is kept low, players aren't able to just shove players off the puck easily so they don't try to hit but instead contain and not let the offense gain control or move the puck with time and space into dangerous areas. Sometimes getting the puck carrier to circle to their backhand away from the net is a defensive win in an isolated circumstance. It isn't always about immediate turnovers.
As for the Crosby, lol, ok, fair enough. I guess I deserved it on some level. Raises a good point too.
As for agreeing if the mechanics are the issue or not instead of accepting responsibility.... Meh, I can sort of agree. I see your point, and there is validity to it for sure. Where I have a bit of a hard time agreeing is the fact that the game heavily favors forwards. They have so many tools to blow by defense where defense has very little tools, which will lead to my next point which I bolded in your reply.
Forwards can easily deke with very little consequence vs a defender who has the mistake of poking which has consequences. We also don't really have the option to hit as both players have relatively the same speed in most circumstances and defensive plays. Carriers can even angle towards the boards and have a very high percentage of squeeking through because there is still no board friction. Why is there 0 board friction in this series?
Another extremely effective maneuver is tapping L2 to do 2 consecutive 180s. It is insane how effective it is and I don't understand why it should be. I mean, player is skating in a straight line, yet it throws defenders off far too easily.
Now for the bolded part. This is a big issue for me. For the defensive side of this game, it has, for the most part, driven defenders to pretty much practice containment. It is pretty much all we can do as D men against decent players. Yea sure I get the few below average players and they are relatively easy to destroy as they always skate in a straight line. This is almost the only time hitting is effective, when it is purely north-south. From angles it is not very effective at all.
I'm a very decent D man. Absolutely way above average, but not elite. I know how to read plays. I know when to commit. I know when I should go for a hit (and when not because I know it will be shrugged off but in real life would yield results). I know when my dropin hero D partner will over commit and I will position myself to compensate. But that is the main problem. I am forced to play containment and direct carriers around while my forwards come is, destroy the carriers, take the puck and move up the ice to potentially score. It is boring and unrewarding. Puck carriers actually challenge D men and practically charge them because certain mechanics allows them to abuse D men in certain situations. Puck carriers should be wary of D, and have to be smart to get to open ice instead of actually challenging D men while maintaining control of the puck.
Defense should be fun in its own way. In real life it can actually be very fun, and it is. But I get it. People whine they can't do a 360 and then follow up with a deke as an Enforcer and then come crying the game blows. I get it. But why do you guys eventually cave in, yet when it comes to defense, we get answers like the one you gave me? If forwards are getting that much fantasy leeway to have fun, the D should be treated the same way, and it was prior to v1.03. Elite players are the ones that should be giving D a hard time, not any average player that can deke. You have to be an incredibly good D man in this game to stand out, but you can be average as a forward to stand out. Is that fair?
As for the low speed hits. I don't know how to explain it in few words here... Let's put it this way. If I am skating towards a carrier at 6 mph, and he turns and skates away at 2 mph, the game negates my hit. I think in that situation he should absolutely stumble and lose control of the puck. The minimum speed threshold, if we can put it that way, is too low. We actually need very decent momentum for hits to be successful, or it has to be purely north-south contact. I think there is a gap either in the mechanics, tuning or animations, but those medium speed contacts need to have a result other than just moving away while maintaining control of the puck.
without cross checking, what many people describe here is very unrealistic. slow speed hitting is only effective when players collide while momentum is headed toward each other. once a player turns and tries to move away from you, their momentum is going in same direction.
a small slow speed check to his back, while his momentum is now headed in same direction, is not going to do anything. unless of course there's increased force thanks to a cross check. EA NHL doesn't have that mechanism, so it's just a weak body check that if anything is absorbed and just adds to the momentum of the skater now moving in the same direction. In this scenario, in real hockey, is when stick checking comes into play. Something that is very poorly implemented in EA NHL. when 2 bodies are occupying the same space, the defender should be able to stick check without any fear of tripping penalty, this is how real hockey is played. defense is positioning and stick play with very little body play. you can still poke check if you are really good at it and aim perfectly but it's risky. Stick lifts are now nerfed down to almost instant penalties.
@NHLDev it's WAY beyond time to fix stick lifts. stick lifts don't have to be very successful but they should almost never cause penalties, like real life. and if i hit the stick lift button, and my stick isn't sitting on top of a puck carriers stick, I shouldn't just wildly go into an animation where I find the nearest face and spear it. And stick lifts should never be a hook. Hooks in real life are not because you wanted to stick lift and were behind a puck carrier. They happen because you intentionally hook a play trying to slow him down without getting caught.
If they could fix these defensive tools people wouldn't need to rely so much on hitting and then the wonky hitting engine problems and puck ragging wouldn't be such a big deal. Just like in real life, once we are occupying the same space, unless they pass/shoot it away, they should be losing the puck. short of a player protecting the puck perfectly, even then that would be rare, poke checks should be knocking it away within a couple of attempts. unfortunately because of whiners that don't know how to play hockey, poke checking is nerfed way down.
You know, no matter what someone brings up, regardless of here or any other topic anywhere else, there will always be a video to credit or discredit a fact or opinion.
However, there is one key word here: Consistency.
How many goals do you think Crosby will score like this, just this year alone? 2? 3? Can we go as high as 5? Unlikely, but possibly. So how does that compare or relate to your game?
Last year he even scored a one-handed, backhand shot, top shelf. Only one of his career so far and maybe even the only time it has been scored in the NHL. Not consistent at all.
2nd video, sure, it is possible. Does happen on a decent basis in real life, but mostly due to player fatigue and being less capable of defending as that fatigue settles in even more. Are you saying that we cannot hit Danglers because you are imitating player fatigue? Did you also notice in that 2nd video there is practically no attempts to body check carriers? How does that relate to your game?
I seriously and honestly want your opinion here and I am looking for a good back-and-forth discussion. I never back down from a challenge, and something tells me you are up for it. In the end, it's a win-win if I better understand your vision, no?
The Crosby example was mostly a joke as you mentioned they may start playing the game after watching Crosby and how they would take what they learned from the real world and apply it in the game and I was sort of kidding that Crosby breaks most rules so they would come in with a false perception of what is possible.
As for your second point, I think you hit the nail on the head that it is more the defense than anything that is allowing players to keep possession more than the mechanics people like to blame. There is a skill gap on both offense and defense and there are some players capable of holding teams to less than a goal a game that are playing pretty high level competition on a regular basis.
I am not saying there isn't room for improvement but it is easier for everyone to agree on the mechanics being the issue as then nobody other than the game has to accept any responsibility.
Not managing player fatigue, over committing, and going for hits when you shouldn't certainly contribute to mistakes and penalties on defense. And you are right, when a team is trying to contain but the puck is well protected and the relative speed is kept low, players aren't able to just shove players off the puck easily so they don't try to hit but instead contain and not let the offense gain control or move the puck with time and space into dangerous areas. Sometimes getting the puck carrier to circle to their backhand away from the net is a defensive win in an isolated circumstance. It isn't always about immediate turnovers.
The thing about defense though, is that the mechanics now make defense overly challenging. In the real world, if a forward makes a mistake and holds onto it too long without proper protection, he gets edged off the puck and loses possession 1 on 1.
In this game because the hitting has been reduced, a player can abuse the mechanic by skating really slow so the effect of the hit is far lessened. When they get edged, they get a minor bump but don't lose possession of the puck. Then they can just spin off of their mistake.
The mechanics set up the defense because the defense uses those mechanics to defend. If the mechanics aren't great tools, the defense have to adjust to a different strategy. Currently that strategy is collapse and let them skate into you. There's very little reward for aggression now, when in the real world aggression can be an extremely good thing if you use it properly (forechecking, board play, etc) or an extremely bad thing if your timing is bad (missed hits leading to lanes and odd man rushes).
That's what we are trying to get you to realize. Yeah some of it is on us, but certainly not all of it.
It drives me completely bonkers when I'm literally behind a player pushing up on the hit stick and it doens't register, I keep pushing up to shove him or anything and nothing happens. IT was so good before they patched it, it was realistic.
It drives me completely bonkers when I'm literally behind a player pushing up on the hit stick and it doens't register, I keep pushing up to shove him or anything and nothing happens. IT was so good before they patched it, it was realistic.
Aggravates me too, alot. However, as a D man, I have to be honest and admit those hits from behind were OP. Sadly, now we completely on the other side of the spectrum. I don't get why nudges from behind can be fixed and leave the rest as it was. Every physical contact is nerfed with that nerf and that is seriously aggravating me every time I play this game.
Funny how the AI can smash players with low momentum though. That part hasn't changed when in fact it was the bigger part of the problem and remain so after the nerf.
People often blame the offense for being predictable and boring where it is actually the defense that is at fault if the offense keeps doing the same thing and has success.
The argument isnt that I lose games because I dont know how to defend this nonsense properly - The argument is that defending against the same stupid scoring attempts game in and game out is stale and boring regardless of winning or losing. The game has evolved to promote individuals to play this way - a play style that resembles nothing of the actual sport of hockey (ie. team work, strategy, being innovative, etc). Ofcourse I'm not happy when I lose a game 6-5 when only giving up 9 SOGs because little Billy is burying floaters from above the circles, but more often than not I can muster a win in games where the opponent knows nothing outside of the cheese goals/playstyles that have become so prevalent. We can say that tuners are irrelevant and skill gap is the main cause for concern, but I can guarantee you that we were NOT seeing this type of play rewarded, nor was this type of play feasible, when this game was released.
People often blame the offense for being predictable and boring where it is actually the defense that is at fault if the offense keeps doing the same thing and has success.
The argument isnt that I lose games because I dont know how to defend this nonsense properly - The argument is that defending against the same stupid scoring attempts game in and game out is stale and boring regardless of winning or losing. The game has evolved to promote individuals to play this way - a play style that resembles nothing of the actual sport of hockey (ie. team work, strategy, being innovative, etc). Ofcourse I'm not happy when I lose a game 6-5 when only giving up 9 SOGs because little Billy is burying floaters from above the circles, but more often than not I can muster a win in games where the opponent knows nothing outside of the cheese goals/playstyles that have become so prevalent. We can say that tuners are irrelevant and skill gap is the main cause for concern, but I can guarantee you that we were NOT seeing this type of play rewarded, nor was this type of play feasible, when this game was released.
Completely agree here.
Puck carriers were actually cautious prior to tuner 1.03. They moved the puck around because hogging it would cause a turnover, just like in real life.
Now they can hog and actually challenge d men. They are aggressive and get in your face asap to match your speed and negate body contact. Stick on stick contact is incredibly more productive than trying to smash a player into the boards....
I don’t know what’s more frustrating, reading NHLDev’s posts trying to rationalize the way this game plays, or actually playing the game.
It becomes more and more evident why this game has been so bad since 2014.
Lol yeah, I agree.
Hard to believe the game went from being hyped up to so many people hating the game and having low expectations for NHL 20 with the addition of 2 tuners. How in the hell do you make full release worse than beta? lol
People often blame the offense for being predictable and boring where it is actually the defense that is at fault if the offense keeps doing the same thing and has success. .
The thing with this game is that for many people winning is everything, and it doesnt' matter how you do it. And the easiest way you win in this game is dangling the puck until you get to the place where you can shoot that bug wrister or whatever it is that you like. You dont' need to cycle the puck or create great plays, even if you could. You just learn that 'tripod' method of dangling, short-side wrister, or cutting to the center and cross crease it, and you're gold. If the opponet allows breakaways, you can also learn left-right-left 'deke' to score. That's it, and you're eSports calibre player.
That goes for HUT, and I am sad to say it goes for EASHL clubs these days too, thanks to the tuners. You can blame the players for playing bad defence all you want, like you blame us for bias when we say something is wrong with AI or whatever, but the fact remains you win games by dangling and glitching, and there's not a damn thing the defence can do about it, because it often takes two or three guys to get the puck away from the dangler (and thus not being able to cover the other guys), and then the puck goes straight to the other opponent just waiting to release their favorite glitch shot. It would be hilarious otherwise, but my blood-pressure can't take much more this abuse...that is a travesty and mockery of hockey, and you ahve the nerve to blame the defence, really?
You know that guy, the short dude playing without helmet (bug?) and most often has some form of baldy hairdo, dangling it all night long, and then scoring almost at will?
Honestly I find the 1 v 1 between puck carrier and d balanced.
I think though that team defense especially on collapse is too strong based on canned animations. The players can never move intercept every pass and block a very high number of shots.
I’ve seen a couple of league games where the gwg of a tight game comes from a seamless puck pickup animation going to the forward instead of the d who made the proper play than gets out of position because the animation goes to the forward. I know there’s contradiction between the two points.
A lot of rng happens in the game and that shouldn’t be the deciding factor for forwards or d.
I cant believe we’ve gone this long without a tuner. At this moment, the game is terrible. It’s next to impossible to play defense. We can’t hit because of an invisible bubble which promotes curling and curling the corners waiting for a one timer. We have to be cautious about stick checking because lots of times it’s penalty. Seriously EA, what’s going on? Why can’t we hit in the corners? There’s a difference between open ice nudges vs defensemen driving their opponents into the boards to knock the puck loose.
Make defense harder and harder while offensive gets easier and easier.
without cross checking, what many people describe here is very unrealistic. slow speed hitting is only effective when players collide while momentum is headed toward each other. once a player turns and tries to move away from you, their momentum is going in same direction.
a small slow speed check to his back, while his momentum is now headed in same direction, is not going to do anything. unless of course there's increased force thanks to a cross check. EA NHL doesn't have that mechanism, so it's just a weak body check that if anything is absorbed and just adds to the momentum of the skater now moving in the same direction. In this scenario, in real hockey, is when stick checking comes into play. Something that is very poorly implemented in EA NHL. when 2 bodies are occupying the same space, the defender should be able to stick check without any fear of tripping penalty, this is how real hockey is played. defense is positioning and stick play with very little body play. you can still poke check if you are really good at it and aim perfectly but it's risky. Stick lifts are now nerfed down to almost instant penalties.
@NHLDev it's WAY beyond time to fix stick lifts. stick lifts don't have to be very successful but they should almost never cause penalties, like real life. and if i hit the stick lift button, and my stick isn't sitting on top of a puck carriers stick, I shouldn't just wildly go into an animation where I find the nearest face and spear it. And stick lifts should never be a hook. Hooks in real life are not because you wanted to stick lift and were behind a puck carrier. They happen because you intentionally hook a play trying to slow him down without getting caught.
If they could fix these defensive tools people wouldn't need to rely so much on hitting and then the wonky hitting engine problems and puck ragging wouldn't be such a big deal. Just like in real life, once we are occupying the same space, unless they pass/shoot it away, they should be losing the puck. short of a player protecting the puck perfectly, even then that would be rare, poke checks should be knocking it away within a couple of attempts. unfortunately because of whiners that don't know how to play hockey, poke checking is nerfed way down.
I think the defensive skill stick should automatically align the defender's stick at the puck so as to automatically deflect any passes or shots going near it. It would make it infinitely more pleasurable to play defense, and would make playing solid defense much easier.
without cross checking, what many people describe here is very unrealistic. slow speed hitting is only effective when players collide while momentum is headed toward each other. once a player turns and tries to move away from you, their momentum is going in same direction.
a small slow speed check to his back, while his momentum is now headed in same direction, is not going to do anything. unless of course there's increased force thanks to a cross check. EA NHL doesn't have that mechanism, so it's just a weak body check that if anything is absorbed and just adds to the momentum of the skater now moving in the same direction. In this scenario, in real hockey, is when stick checking comes into play. Something that is very poorly implemented in EA NHL. when 2 bodies are occupying the same space, the defender should be able to stick check without any fear of tripping penalty, this is how real hockey is played. defense is positioning and stick play with very little body play. you can still poke check if you are really good at it and aim perfectly but it's risky. Stick lifts are now nerfed down to almost instant penalties.
@NHLDev it's WAY beyond time to fix stick lifts. stick lifts don't have to be very successful but they should almost never cause penalties, like real life. and if i hit the stick lift button, and my stick isn't sitting on top of a puck carriers stick, I shouldn't just wildly go into an animation where I find the nearest face and spear it. And stick lifts should never be a hook. Hooks in real life are not because you wanted to stick lift and were behind a puck carrier. They happen because you intentionally hook a play trying to slow him down without getting caught.
If they could fix these defensive tools people wouldn't need to rely so much on hitting and then the wonky hitting engine problems and puck ragging wouldn't be such a big deal. Just like in real life, once we are occupying the same space, unless they pass/shoot it away, they should be losing the puck. short of a player protecting the puck perfectly, even then that would be rare, poke checks should be knocking it away within a couple of attempts. unfortunately because of whiners that don't know how to play hockey, poke checking is nerfed way down.
I think the defensive skill stick should automatically align the defender's stick at the puck so as to automatically deflect any passes or shots going near it. It would make it infinitely more pleasurable to play defense, and would make playing solid defense much easier.
Honestly that would be awesome. I use the poke check to do this but it's too inconsistent.
When you say it is useless, how do you qualify the Players who have GAA’s less than 1? With PIMs less than 2 per game?
And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.
At what threshold is it crossing over for you?
So you really think game is in good state, just because stats? Can you also see fun factor in stats, because that has plummeted since 1.0 to non existent.
So you really think game is in good state, just because stats? Can you also see fun factor in stats, because that has plummeted since 1.0 to non existent.
Fun is more subjective than stats
Do stats tell the full story? Certainly not. They are just another touch point for us to qualify feedback.
When people say ‘every shot goes in now’ and shooting percentages are up 1 percent, it puts it into perspective.
When people say, “you can’t defend, every action is a penalty or doesn’t work” and there are players that have GAA’s and PIMs/G under 1, it shows there are gaps in player experiences based on their skill and how they play.
When you say it is useless, how do you qualify the Players who have GAA’s less than 1? With PIMs less than 2 per game?
And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.
At what threshold is it crossing over for you?
Team defense is still there, and people have changed and adapted to it. People have gone from angling players to the boards to separating them from the puck, or introducing good angles to forecheck effectively to now playing a collapse and wait for a mistake type style of hockey.
It's almost equally as effective because it's risk management. You give up tools to play a less risky game, but in turn you're playing a safer defense. It's a counter style of playing as opposed to preemptive.
Now we just pack guys into the middle of the ice in the defensive zone. We didn't need to do that before because we had other tools. Both were effective ways to keep goal totals low against.
But one is massively boring, and leads to frustration especially if you're down a goal. It's like watching the early 2000's Minnesota Wild play. Nobody wanted to watch that team because it was always a boring hockey game to watch. Trap and collapse. Hey, they kept their goal totals against down as well. But then you have teams like Chicago 5 years ago who were more active on defense and took time and space away. Sometimes they got burned, but they got things done and become Champs in 3 out of 6 years.
I know you guys feel like people don't adapt to this game well, but we do. One of the ways we do so easily is because we've seen this exact game for the past 5 years. Keep them outside, prevent forehand and don't let them cut to the middle. You do this even somewhat effectively and your goals against average in VS is going to always be under 1.3. It's not harder to defend in this game, it's just mind numbingly boring watching the other team skate in circles in your own end baiting you to skate out towards them.
Replies
As for the Crosby, lol, ok, fair enough. I guess I deserved it on some level. Raises a good point too.
As for agreeing if the mechanics are the issue or not instead of accepting responsibility.... Meh, I can sort of agree. I see your point, and there is validity to it for sure. Where I have a bit of a hard time agreeing is the fact that the game heavily favors forwards. They have so many tools to blow by defense where defense has very little tools, which will lead to my next point which I bolded in your reply.
Forwards can easily deke with very little consequence vs a defender who has the mistake of poking which has consequences. We also don't really have the option to hit as both players have relatively the same speed in most circumstances and defensive plays. Carriers can even angle towards the boards and have a very high percentage of squeeking through because there is still no board friction. Why is there 0 board friction in this series?
Another extremely effective maneuver is tapping L2 to do 2 consecutive 180s. It is insane how effective it is and I don't understand why it should be. I mean, player is skating in a straight line, yet it throws defenders off far too easily.
Now for the bolded part. This is a big issue for me. For the defensive side of this game, it has, for the most part, driven defenders to pretty much practice containment. It is pretty much all we can do as D men against decent players. Yea sure I get the few below average players and they are relatively easy to destroy as they always skate in a straight line. This is almost the only time hitting is effective, when it is purely north-south. From angles it is not very effective at all.
I'm a very decent D man. Absolutely way above average, but not elite. I know how to read plays. I know when to commit. I know when I should go for a hit (and when not because I know it will be shrugged off but in real life would yield results). I know when my dropin hero D partner will over commit and I will position myself to compensate. But that is the main problem. I am forced to play containment and direct carriers around while my forwards come is, destroy the carriers, take the puck and move up the ice to potentially score. It is boring and unrewarding. Puck carriers actually challenge D men and practically charge them because certain mechanics allows them to abuse D men in certain situations. Puck carriers should be wary of D, and have to be smart to get to open ice instead of actually challenging D men while maintaining control of the puck.
Defense should be fun in its own way. In real life it can actually be very fun, and it is. But I get it. People whine they can't do a 360 and then follow up with a deke as an Enforcer and then come crying the game blows. I get it. But why do you guys eventually cave in, yet when it comes to defense, we get answers like the one you gave me? If forwards are getting that much fantasy leeway to have fun, the D should be treated the same way, and it was prior to v1.03. Elite players are the ones that should be giving D a hard time, not any average player that can deke. You have to be an incredibly good D man in this game to stand out, but you can be average as a forward to stand out. Is that fair?
As for the low speed hits. I don't know how to explain it in few words here... Let's put it this way. If I am skating towards a carrier at 6 mph, and he turns and skates away at 2 mph, the game negates my hit. I think in that situation he should absolutely stumble and lose control of the puck. The minimum speed threshold, if we can put it that way, is too low. We actually need very decent momentum for hits to be successful, or it has to be purely north-south contact. I think there is a gap either in the mechanics, tuning or animations, but those medium speed contacts need to have a result other than just moving away while maintaining control of the puck.
a small slow speed check to his back, while his momentum is now headed in same direction, is not going to do anything. unless of course there's increased force thanks to a cross check. EA NHL doesn't have that mechanism, so it's just a weak body check that if anything is absorbed and just adds to the momentum of the skater now moving in the same direction. In this scenario, in real hockey, is when stick checking comes into play. Something that is very poorly implemented in EA NHL. when 2 bodies are occupying the same space, the defender should be able to stick check without any fear of tripping penalty, this is how real hockey is played. defense is positioning and stick play with very little body play. you can still poke check if you are really good at it and aim perfectly but it's risky. Stick lifts are now nerfed down to almost instant penalties.
@NHLDev it's WAY beyond time to fix stick lifts. stick lifts don't have to be very successful but they should almost never cause penalties, like real life. and if i hit the stick lift button, and my stick isn't sitting on top of a puck carriers stick, I shouldn't just wildly go into an animation where I find the nearest face and spear it. And stick lifts should never be a hook. Hooks in real life are not because you wanted to stick lift and were behind a puck carrier. They happen because you intentionally hook a play trying to slow him down without getting caught.
If they could fix these defensive tools people wouldn't need to rely so much on hitting and then the wonky hitting engine problems and puck ragging wouldn't be such a big deal. Just like in real life, once we are occupying the same space, unless they pass/shoot it away, they should be losing the puck. short of a player protecting the puck perfectly, even then that would be rare, poke checks should be knocking it away within a couple of attempts. unfortunately because of whiners that don't know how to play hockey, poke checking is nerfed way down.
The thing about defense though, is that the mechanics now make defense overly challenging. In the real world, if a forward makes a mistake and holds onto it too long without proper protection, he gets edged off the puck and loses possession 1 on 1.
In this game because the hitting has been reduced, a player can abuse the mechanic by skating really slow so the effect of the hit is far lessened. When they get edged, they get a minor bump but don't lose possession of the puck. Then they can just spin off of their mistake.
The mechanics set up the defense because the defense uses those mechanics to defend. If the mechanics aren't great tools, the defense have to adjust to a different strategy. Currently that strategy is collapse and let them skate into you. There's very little reward for aggression now, when in the real world aggression can be an extremely good thing if you use it properly (forechecking, board play, etc) or an extremely bad thing if your timing is bad (missed hits leading to lanes and odd man rushes).
That's what we are trying to get you to realize. Yeah some of it is on us, but certainly not all of it.
Aggravates me too, alot. However, as a D man, I have to be honest and admit those hits from behind were OP. Sadly, now we completely on the other side of the spectrum. I don't get why nudges from behind can be fixed and leave the rest as it was. Every physical contact is nerfed with that nerf and that is seriously aggravating me every time I play this game.
Funny how the AI can smash players with low momentum though. That part hasn't changed when in fact it was the bigger part of the problem and remain so after the nerf.
The argument isnt that I lose games because I dont know how to defend this nonsense properly - The argument is that defending against the same stupid scoring attempts game in and game out is stale and boring regardless of winning or losing. The game has evolved to promote individuals to play this way - a play style that resembles nothing of the actual sport of hockey (ie. team work, strategy, being innovative, etc). Ofcourse I'm not happy when I lose a game 6-5 when only giving up 9 SOGs because little Billy is burying floaters from above the circles, but more often than not I can muster a win in games where the opponent knows nothing outside of the cheese goals/playstyles that have become so prevalent. We can say that tuners are irrelevant and skill gap is the main cause for concern, but I can guarantee you that we were NOT seeing this type of play rewarded, nor was this type of play feasible, when this game was released.
Completely agree here.
Puck carriers were actually cautious prior to tuner 1.03. They moved the puck around because hogging it would cause a turnover, just like in real life.
Now they can hog and actually challenge d men. They are aggressive and get in your face asap to match your speed and negate body contact. Stick on stick contact is incredibly more productive than trying to smash a player into the boards....
It becomes more and more evident why this game has been so bad since 2014.
Lol yeah, I agree.
Hard to believe the game went from being hyped up to so many people hating the game and having low expectations for NHL 20 with the addition of 2 tuners. How in the hell do you make full release worse than beta? lol
The thing with this game is that for many people winning is everything, and it doesnt' matter how you do it. And the easiest way you win in this game is dangling the puck until you get to the place where you can shoot that bug wrister or whatever it is that you like. You dont' need to cycle the puck or create great plays, even if you could. You just learn that 'tripod' method of dangling, short-side wrister, or cutting to the center and cross crease it, and you're gold. If the opponet allows breakaways, you can also learn left-right-left 'deke' to score. That's it, and you're eSports calibre player.
That goes for HUT, and I am sad to say it goes for EASHL clubs these days too, thanks to the tuners. You can blame the players for playing bad defence all you want, like you blame us for bias when we say something is wrong with AI or whatever, but the fact remains you win games by dangling and glitching, and there's not a damn thing the defence can do about it, because it often takes two or three guys to get the puck away from the dangler (and thus not being able to cover the other guys), and then the puck goes straight to the other opponent just waiting to release their favorite glitch shot. It would be hilarious otherwise, but my blood-pressure can't take much more this abuse...that is a travesty and mockery of hockey, and you ahve the nerve to blame the defence, really?
You know that guy, the short dude playing without helmet (bug?) and most often has some form of baldy hairdo, dangling it all night long, and then scoring almost at will?
I think though that team defense especially on collapse is too strong based on canned animations. The players can never move intercept every pass and block a very high number of shots.
I’ve seen a couple of league games where the gwg of a tight game comes from a seamless puck pickup animation going to the forward instead of the d who made the proper play than gets out of position because the animation goes to the forward. I know there’s contradiction between the two points.
A lot of rng happens in the game and that shouldn’t be the deciding factor for forwards or d.
It’s all based on 6 v 6
Make defense harder and harder while offensive gets easier and easier.
I think the defensive skill stick should automatically align the defender's stick at the puck so as to automatically deflect any passes or shots going near it. It would make it infinitely more pleasurable to play defense, and would make playing solid defense much easier.
Honestly that would be awesome. I use the poke check to do this but it's too inconsistent.
And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.
At what threshold is it crossing over for you?
So you really think game is in good state, just because stats? Can you also see fun factor in stats, because that has plummeted since 1.0 to non existent.
Fun is more subjective than stats
Do stats tell the full story? Certainly not. They are just another touch point for us to qualify feedback.
When people say ‘every shot goes in now’ and shooting percentages are up 1 percent, it puts it into perspective.
When people say, “you can’t defend, every action is a penalty or doesn’t work” and there are players that have GAA’s and PIMs/G under 1, it shows there are gaps in player experiences based on their skill and how they play.
Team defense is still there, and people have changed and adapted to it. People have gone from angling players to the boards to separating them from the puck, or introducing good angles to forecheck effectively to now playing a collapse and wait for a mistake type style of hockey.
It's almost equally as effective because it's risk management. You give up tools to play a less risky game, but in turn you're playing a safer defense. It's a counter style of playing as opposed to preemptive.
Now we just pack guys into the middle of the ice in the defensive zone. We didn't need to do that before because we had other tools. Both were effective ways to keep goal totals low against.
But one is massively boring, and leads to frustration especially if you're down a goal. It's like watching the early 2000's Minnesota Wild play. Nobody wanted to watch that team because it was always a boring hockey game to watch. Trap and collapse. Hey, they kept their goal totals against down as well. But then you have teams like Chicago 5 years ago who were more active on defense and took time and space away. Sometimes they got burned, but they got things done and become Champs in 3 out of 6 years.
I know you guys feel like people don't adapt to this game well, but we do. One of the ways we do so easily is because we've seen this exact game for the past 5 years. Keep them outside, prevent forehand and don't let them cut to the middle. You do this even somewhat effectively and your goals against average in VS is going to always be under 1.3. It's not harder to defend in this game, it's just mind numbingly boring watching the other team skate in circles in your own end baiting you to skate out towards them.