EA Forums - Banner

Can we get a new tuner

124Next

Replies

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Fun is more subjective than stats

    Do stats tell the full story? Certainly not. They are just another touch point for us to qualify feedback.

    When people say ‘every shot goes in now’ and shooting percentages are up 1 percent, it puts it into perspective.

    When people say, “you can’t defend, every action is a penalty or doesn’t work” and there are players that have GAA’s and PIMs/G under 1, it shows there are gaps in player experiences based on their skill and how they play.

    Yes, fun is subjective. But it seems that community is in agreement that the game is not fun anymore since the tuners after 1.0. There have been flood of post in these forums and reddit since 1.03 how stale the game have been tuned. And I really feel ripped of since I bought this game because the good experience from beta, and urged my friends to buy it too.

    You can play this game now two ways; hockey or cheese. I can adapt to that cheese play, and have success. Just circle in corners endlessly to lure AI defender out of position or flick that unrealistic shortside wrister. I'm average player tops, and I have managed to beat 100cr higher players in ovp just by playing cheese. Those players have outplayed me and outshot me 1:3, 1:4 by playing good hockey. You have taken out the hockey IQ from game that has lowered skill gap seriously. I have now quit playing online because of the tuners, at least 1.0 is fun in offline.

    Have you thought that 1% increase would be explained with by how long the game has been out. There are now maybe more newcomer to series that don't buy the game day 1 and dont know yet how to score? Those that take the shot to goal when ever they can, where ever they can. At least that's what I see when playing with my friends that are new to series.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Greyinsi wrote: »
    So you really think game is in good state, just because stats? Can you also see fun factor in stats, because that has plummeted since 1.0 to non existent.

    Fun is more subjective than stats

    Do stats tell the full story? Certainly not. They are just another touch point for us to qualify feedback.

    When people say ‘every shot goes in now’ and shooting percentages are up 1 percent, it puts it into perspective.

    When people say, “you can’t defend, every action is a penalty or doesn’t work” and there are players that have GAA’s and PIMs/G under 1, it shows there are gaps in player experiences based on their skill and how they play.

    Interesting. So how about stats like average length of time per puck carry (before a pass, turnover, or shot) now vs day 1 tuners? How about percentage of overall goals from short side wristers now vs. day 1 tuners? How about number of defensive hits dislodging the puck now vs. day 1 tuners?

    And how would the stats now stack up to 2018? Seems like a lot of us are just over the game because it now dictates the same stale type play from 2018 ... At least the way in which the game encourages players to score in the same 2-3 ways, not pass, not hit, etc.
  • LeFury_27
    203 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    Too bad you couldn't see what the top players in NHL 19 were running in the 1.0 tuner. Most likely the 1-4 trap. The game in beta and 1.0 really represented how fast the NHL is today, now it's back to 18.

    I've played games with the 1-4 and it ends up being a puck ragging fest. Exchanging turns ragging the puck back and forth in each others zone looking for an open lane for a pass or to the cut in and score short side cheese, so boring. Just by playing 1-4 and not chasing around players in your zone you can often hold opponent to 1 or 2 goals.

    NHL 19 has changed because top "elite players" couldn't score, they play too defensive and are overly competitive. They wouldn't open up and play fast hockey that creates odd man rushes and breakaways like everyone else was doing. All they want is puck ragging and cheese goals. The game is ruined for everyone else thanks to them.
    Post edited by LeFury_27 on
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Where is it at? Defense is useless
    When you say it is useless, how do you qualify the Players who have GAA’s less than 1? With PIMs less than 2 per game?

    And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.

    At what threshold is it crossing over for you?
    Players make a bad pass that the Ai didn’t intercept, proceeds to skate through the Ai and me for a pass to his teammate into the net

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/63632857

    This one the guy dekes and I catch him at the end of deke. I stepped up, tried taking the puck away but the puck is glued to his stick and shoots glove side into the net.


    There was a thread about how recent tuners made offense more likely to pick up the puck in these stiriuations.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Greyinsi wrote: »
    So you really think game is in good state, just because stats? Can you also see fun factor in stats, because that has plummeted since 1.0 to non existent.

    Fun is more subjective than stats

    Exactly. Fun or the lack thereof, is why I deleted the game after week 2. Its boring and hell!!
  • For fun I just wanted to go back and play the 1.0 tuner, and right away all the good games in beta and 1.0 came back. Those games were so fun, win or lose.

    I think it's an absolute shame that they changed the game so much, It is shocking to me actually. It's not until you go back and play 1.0 you realize how good it was.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited November 2018
    Greyinsi wrote: »
    Have you thought that 1% increase would be explained with by how long the game has been out. There are now maybe more newcomer to series that don't buy the game day 1 and dont know yet how to score? Those that take the shot to goal when ever they can, where ever they can. At least that's what I see when playing with my friends that are new to series.
    In this case, I was looking at the top tier players in this case to factor in high levels of competition and players who were accustomed to the game before and after the changes.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Where is it at? Defense is useless
    When you say it is useless, how do you qualify the Players who have GAA’s less than 1? With PIMs less than 2 per game?

    And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.

    At what threshold is it crossing over for you?
    Players make a bad pass that the Ai didn’t intercept, proceeds to skate through the Ai and me for a pass to his teammate into the net

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/63632857

    This one the guy dekes and I catch him at the end of deke. I stepped up, tried taking the puck away but the puck is glued to his stick and shoots glove side into the net.


    There was a thread about how recent tuners made offense more likely to pick up the puck in these stiriuations.

    all you did was skate into the puck carrier and hope you took the puck away. then you skated away from him when you thought you had the puck and then he made the pass. what is lacking here is proper stick play. your scared to poke the puck away from him from fear of tripping. same with stick lift which is automatic penalty now. That should be a spot where you successfully check him. unfortunately hitting is wonky right now so people dont trust that either.

    and you are playing 3v3 which basically means you aren't playing real hockey, so just deal with garbage.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    This one the guy dekes and I catch him at the end of deke. I stepped up, tried taking the puck away but the puck is glued to his stick and shoots glove side into the net.


    There was a thread about how recent tuners made offense more likely to pick up the puck in these stiriuations.
    As we improve pickups and tone back human delays to improve pickup consistency, it increases the amount of back and forth and incidental puck loss and reacquisition through pickup attempts from multiple players.

    We will probably look at cases where human delay can be ramped back up in some cases after people feel pickups are consistent and we can then add them back to places where everyone would be in agreement they are too fast. In the situations you showed though, with incidental stick on stick, it is more that the player had their stick moved away from the puck through that physical stick on stick contact and they would just try to gain possession right away again, which does run through player attributes and orientation to them as factors on top of the delay (which is fairly small as stated above when it comes to stick on stick contact).
  • EpiCxOwNeD
    639 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Where is it at? Defense is useless
    When you say it is useless, how do you qualify the Players who have GAA’s less than 1? With PIMs less than 2 per game?

    And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.

    At what threshold is it crossing over for you?
    Players make a bad pass that the Ai didn’t intercept, proceeds to skate through the Ai and me for a pass to his teammate into the net

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/63632857

    This one the guy dekes and I catch him at the end of deke. I stepped up, tried taking the puck away but the puck is glued to his stick and shoots glove side into the net.


    There was a thread about how recent tuners made offense more likely to pick up the puck in these stiriuations.

    I guess i forgot to add the clip to that here’s what I’m talking about.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/64016798
  • EpiCxOwNeD
    639 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Where is it at? Defense is useless
    When you say it is useless, how do you qualify the Players who have GAA’s less than 1? With PIMs less than 2 per game?

    And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.

    At what threshold is it crossing over for you?
    Players make a bad pass that the Ai didn’t intercept, proceeds to skate through the Ai and me for a pass to his teammate into the net

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/63632857

    This one the guy dekes and I catch him at the end of deke. I stepped up, tried taking the puck away but the puck is glued to his stick and shoots glove side into the net.


    There was a thread about how recent tuners made offense more likely to pick up the puck in these stiriuations.

    all you did was skate into the puck carrier and hope you took the puck away. then you skated away from him when you thought you had the puck and then he made the pass. what is lacking here is proper stick play. your scared to poke the puck away from him from fear of tripping. same with stick lift which is automatic penalty now. That should be a spot where you successfully check him. unfortunately hitting is wonky right now so people dont trust that either.

    and you are playing 3v3 which basically means you aren't playing real hockey, so just deal with garbage.

    I skated away because I thought I had the puck. There’s a reason why I skated into him. Like you said, I can’t hit because it dont work and I’m afraid to poke because if I get a penalty, it’s a goal in 3s

    I myself prefer playing 6s over 3s. But unfortunately we haven’t gotten that many 6s games in as we would like and I will not play with a bunch of CPUs.
    Post edited by EpiCxOwNeD on
  • HoodHoppers
    1486 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    Also @NHLDev one thing that's easily noticeable is when I was adjusting gameplay sliders for offline play, if you adjust the slider for attributes to have a greater effect (sorry can't remember exact name right now) it significantly slows skating down. I went from a 5 to a 10 and I had to compensate for skating speed and such. Even 5 to 8 was a huge huge difference.

    Edit: the reason I'm saying this is because if that slider was touched to make agility differential between superstar players in comparison to average players was touched that is likely the reason why skating has slowed down
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Where is it at? Defense is useless
    When you say it is useless, how do you qualify the Players who have GAA’s less than 1? With PIMs less than 2 per game?

    And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.

    At what threshold is it crossing over for you?

    Team defense is still there, and people have changed and adapted to it. People have gone from angling players to the boards to separating them from the puck, or introducing good angles to forecheck effectively to now playing a collapse and wait for a mistake type style of hockey.

    It's almost equally as effective because it's risk management. You give up tools to play a less risky game, but in turn you're playing a safer defense. It's a counter style of playing as opposed to preemptive.

    Now we just pack guys into the middle of the ice in the defensive zone. We didn't need to do that before because we had other tools. Both were effective ways to keep goal totals low against.

    But one is massively boring, and leads to frustration especially if you're down a goal. It's like watching the early 2000's Minnesota Wild play. Nobody wanted to watch that team because it was always a boring hockey game to watch. Trap and collapse. Hey, they kept their goal totals against down as well. But then you have teams like Chicago 5 years ago who were more active on defense and took time and space away. Sometimes they got burned, but they got things done and become Champs in 3 out of 6 years.

    I know you guys feel like people don't adapt to this game well, but we do. One of the ways we do so easily is because we've seen this exact game for the past 5 years. Keep them outside, prevent forehand and don't let them cut to the middle. You do this even somewhat effectively and your goals against average in VS is going to always be under 1.3. It's not harder to defend in this game, it's just mind numbingly boring watching the other team skate in circles in your own end baiting you to skate out towards them.

    That right there. Exactly how I see it. Makes me regret buying 19 and what will make me stay away from 20, 21, 22, etc... I really don't see myself paying $100 on NHL 23 to defend NHL 14-18 tactics.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Greyinsi wrote: »
    So you really think game is in good state, just because stats? Can you also see fun factor in stats, because that has plummeted since 1.0 to non existent.

    Fun is more subjective than stats

    Do stats tell the full story? Certainly not. They are just another touch point for us to qualify feedback.

    When people say ‘every shot goes in now’ and shooting percentages are up 1 percent, it puts it into perspective.

    When people say, “you can’t defend, every action is a penalty or doesn’t work” and there are players that have GAA’s and PIMs/G under 1, it shows there are gaps in player experiences based on their skill and how they play.

    Interesting fact about that 1% increase.

    Can you break it down a bit? What mode are you referring to? I ask because in 6vs6 a couple months ago scores were on average 2-1, 4-2, 3-1, relatively low scoring and actually resembled real-life scores. Now games are rarely less than 7-10 goals combined between both teams.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Where is it at? Defense is useless
    When you say it is useless, how do you qualify the Players who have GAA’s less than 1? With PIMs less than 2 per game?

    And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.

    At what threshold is it crossing over for you?
    Players make a bad pass that the Ai didn’t intercept, proceeds to skate through the Ai and me for a pass to his teammate into the net

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/63632857

    This one the guy dekes and I catch him at the end of deke. I stepped up, tried taking the puck away but the puck is glued to his stick and shoots glove side into the net.


    There was a thread about how recent tuners made offense more likely to pick up the puck in these stiriuations.

    all you did was skate into the puck carrier and hope you took the puck away. then you skated away from him when you thought you had the puck and then he made the pass. what is lacking here is proper stick play. your scared to poke the puck away from him from fear of tripping. same with stick lift which is automatic penalty now. That should be a spot where you successfully check him. unfortunately hitting is wonky right now so people dont trust that either.

    and you are playing 3v3 which basically means you aren't playing real hockey, so just deal with garbage.

    It's a bit unfair to criticize him for playing 3's. It's all I play these days because unless I'm playing LG, drop 6's have been a nightmare for me. Errors, freezing, looping before the puck drops, and if a game happens to start I'm basically playing a 3's game in 6's with more AI than people since EA's terrible timer system forces people to dashboard and not back out as well as put people in a game (they might not want to be in) with less than five seconds left.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    This one the guy dekes and I catch him at the end of deke. I stepped up, tried taking the puck away but the puck is glued to his stick and shoots glove side into the net.


    There was a thread about how recent tuners made offense more likely to pick up the puck in these stiriuations.


    We will probably look at cases where human delay can be ramped back up in some cases after people feel pickups are consistent and we can then add them back to places where everyone would be in agreement they are too fast.

    Why would you, or anyone else, want a delay? I don't follow that logic. Hockey is a reactionary game, so if there is a delay then that could lead to ill-timed poke checks and tripping penalties. Which is already an issue for newcomers to the series.

  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Where is it at? Defense is useless
    When you say it is useless, how do you qualify the Players who have GAA’s less than 1? With PIMs less than 2 per game?

    And there are a lot of others with GAAs below 2 that commit a couple of penalties a game.

    At what threshold is it crossing over for you?
    Players make a bad pass that the Ai didn’t intercept, proceeds to skate through the Ai and me for a pass to his teammate into the net

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/63632857

    This one the guy dekes and I catch him at the end of deke. I stepped up, tried taking the puck away but the puck is glued to his stick and shoots glove side into the net.


    There was a thread about how recent tuners made offense more likely to pick up the puck in these stiriuations.

    I guess i forgot to add the clip to that here’s what I’m talking about.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/64016798

    LOL.

    Skill gap.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Greyinsi wrote: »
    Have you thought that 1% increase would be explained with by how long the game has been out. There are now maybe more newcomer to series that don't buy the game day 1 and dont know yet how to score? Those that take the shot to goal when ever they can, where ever they can. At least that's what I see when playing with my friends that are new to series.
    In this case, I was looking at the top tier players in this case to factor in high levels of competition and players who were accustomed to the game before and after the changes.

    This brings up some interesting questions to me. When you reference looking at the objective stats before and after making changes to the game, who is it that you're looking at? Are you focused on a certain group more than others or everyone as a whole? For instance do you put more weight on highly rated players, more on average, or disregard a certain top and low percentage to find the mean? Not a conspiracy theory or anything, just curious what the philosophy is for the measuring stick of the community.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.