It’s easy to score them as long as defence fails to block it. Curl a around on the boards aim short side, goes in a lot with no screen. I usually can get one a game without trying it often.
Odd time you get guys who try it the whole game, sometimes they get one or more, and if your unlucky like me 2 on 7 shots.
Right now it’s so easy to pot one short side, it is easier and attempted more than screened shots, point shots, deflections and one timers combined because it’s so effective when it shouldn’t be.
If the shot is in the slot I’m fine with that going in more on either side, but goalies are Elite and EA makes it seem like they are not.
But anyways, I can pull up plenty of unscreened slapshot and wrist shot snipes on goalies occuring in the real NHL from the top of the circle. I can pull up 2-3 within the last few Sabres games I have watched.
The only reason you can pull up a few of these goals is because NHL teams take so many of these shots. 85% of all NHL shots are "clean shots" - unscreened shots from distance (not just above the circles) where the goalie is set. NHL goalies save 95% of those shots, and since that includes shots in the homeplate area, the save percentage on shots from above the circles is even higher than that.
The problem in this game is that people take many fewer of those shots than IRL (if only because there are so many fewer shots in general), and score at a higher rate than IRL. Save percentage on unscreened shots from above the circles should be, at best, 95%. But in this game it's closer to 80%, or even lower.
But anyways, I can pull up plenty of unscreened slapshot and wrist shot snipes on goalies occuring in the real NHL from the top of the circle. I can pull up 2-3 within the last few Sabres games I have watched.
The only reason you can pull up a few of these goals is because NHL teams take so many of these shots. 85% of all NHL shots are "clean shots" - unscreened shots from distance (not just above the circles) where the goalie is set. NHL goalies save 95% of those shots, and since that includes shots in the homeplate area, the save percentage on shots from above the circles is even higher than that.
The problem in this game is that people take many fewer of those shots than IRL (if only because there are so many fewer shots in general), and score at a higher rate than IRL. Save percentage on unscreened shots from above the circles should be, at best, 95%. But in this game it's closer to 80%, or even lower.
There are a lot of percentages being thrown around in this comment and I'm just wondering whether you are estimating or actually have the data to back it up. Are these percentages being looked at per game or over an 82 game season?
If I'm basing these percents off of my own games played, then they would be highly inaccurate. I'm just not seeing my goalies fail on these types of shots as much as you are implying. As I have said before though, I play a very conservative style of defense, so maybe that could be the case? My GAA is about 1.56 and the goals for is just a hair past 3. So I'm seeing about 4 goals a game and rarely do I see those perimeter shots.
Everything that was promoted and made this game purchase worthy was for the most part removed.
The legends thing is strange.. but what else was removed from this game?
New skating engine? Still there. It might be tuned to your displeasure, but it's still there and many people (myself included) have no issues at all adjusting to the changes they've made.
New Hitting? Still there. Tweaked? Sure. Those who haven't adjusted still don't like the changes, and that's okay - but the new mechanics they implemented are still there, ie: Not removed.
World of Chel is still there. It wasn't removed. Drop-in Matchmaking is atrocious and I hope they sort that out too - but that's not a subjective issue that needs debate. It's an issue that simply exists and is being worked on - from what I'm understanding.
So again - aside from the legends thing - what exactly was removed from this game?
can we please stop calling this a 'new' skating engine? there is nothing new about it, it's TPS with a very slight increase in sliders. not sure how they don't get sued for false advertising tbh.
this is definitely not the same skating engine. some of these changes in the way you move are almost over powered. hence why so many people are complaining about how hard it is to defend against
this is definitely not the same skating engine. some of these changes in the way you move are almost over powered. hence why so many people are complaining about how hard it is to defend against
huh??? half of this thread is people complaining that they can't move (like in previous years) and the other half are people are complaining about glitch goals, what are you talking about? this skating engine is exactly the same as it the last one. you still turn like a sail boat, LT for vision control is still wonky and skaters are still being caught from behind by what should be slower defenders. please show me an example of a change you noticed. remember they called this RPM not a tweaked TPS so i'd like you to show me what the difference is.
huh??? half of this thread is people complaining that they can't move (like in previous years) and the other half are people are complaining about glitch goals, what are you talking about? this skating engine is exactly the same as it the last one. you still turn like a sail boat, LT for vision control is still wonky and skaters are still being caught from behind by what should be slower defenders. please show me an example of a change you noticed. remember they called this RPM not a tweaked TPS so i'd like you to show me what the difference is.
So by your theory if there are two things that people don't like, they are the same?
It is a brand new system -- and I am not even referencing all the new animations when I say that. At a high level, the old system was a stateflow system and this new system is a pose trajectory matching system. The new system allows us to make quicker blends that are still fairly believable and accurate to what should be physically possible.
As an example, through a stateflow system, you may need to wait to get to a branch out point where as with a system like the new one, you can branch out much faster as the system finds a pose (by allowing it to jump to interior frames within other animations) that is closer to what you are requesting to do by looking at the current location of certain joints and their trajectories to give you something that will blend faster to the new action you want to take on.
We also changed our input model. The old system had limits in how it blended inputs where as now the input is much more raw and will blend based on how quickly the Player asks for change rather than set rates like the old system and then runs through the motion model for what is possible as opposed to being limited by the input model and it's blending.
Maybe the new system adds to some of the problems you call out. I wouldn't agree with turning like a sailboat at all as I think the new system is technically too responsive at times if you are looking for realism but defenders are possibly even quicker to react to get back -- but things like that could be tuned. We could slow down backskating speeds/pivot speeds, increase top end speed, etc.. but at the heart of it, the new system is superior to the last one in terms of what it allows us to do and the control it gives players on a frame to frame basis.
For the beta and for about a month the goalies were good and after the whining and crying from the elite cheesers the goalies are trash
The issue is that everyone in the community were complaining the goalies were too good. It wasn't just the "Elites" or "Game Changers". Plenty of people were saying that scoring was too difficult. There were threads in which people were stating it were impossible to score on one timers when in reality, it's probably the easier goal to score in this game.
There was a month long thread talking about how goalies were making ridiculous saves on multiple occasions in the same game. People were even complaining that games were only 1-0 going into the 3rd and requested more scoring. And all of this can be find right here in the threads. Again, this didn't come directly from the elite players, but the majority of the people on these boards.
So what did EA do? They listened to this feedback and they adjusted to what the community wanted. When you have the Elites and the casuals all saying the same thing, then of course they are going to adjust.
And I just want to note, I didn't want these changes either.
It most definitely was not everyone. I know the thread you are referring to, and many people - myself included - posted to say we appreciated how much better the goalies were than in previous games. It was like 60-40 arguing goalies needed a change.
Compare that with 99% of people now saying Tuner 1.0 was better than Tuner 1.3.
For the beta and for about a month the goalies were good and after the whining and crying from the elite cheesers the goalies are trash
The issue is that everyone in the community were complaining the goalies were too good. It wasn't just the "Elites" or "Game Changers". Plenty of people were saying that scoring was too difficult. There were threads in which people were stating it were impossible to score on one timers when in reality, it's probably the easier goal to score in this game.
There was a month long thread talking about how goalies were making ridiculous saves on multiple occasions in the same game. People were even complaining that games were only 1-0 going into the 3rd and requested more scoring. And all of this can be find right here in the threads. Again, this didn't come directly from the elite players, but the majority of the people on these boards.
So what did EA do? They listened to this feedback and they adjusted to what the community wanted. When you have the Elites and the casuals all saying the same thing, then of course they are going to adjust.
And I just want to note, I didn't want these changes either.
It most definitely was not everyone. I know the thread you are referring to, and many people - myself included - posted to say we appreciated how much better the goalies were than in previous games. It was like 60-40 arguing goalies needed a change.
Compare that with 99% of people now saying Tuner 1.0 was better than Tuner 1.3.
When I say "everyone", I don't mean everyone on these boards. I meant it as a general statement. If "60%" are arguing for a change plus game changers are also requesting something similar, that's the majority. And it wasn't just a single thread, it was multiple threads flooding the board. Some were saying goalies were superhumans, others were blaming DDA, and then others were saying the game was just not fun.
All I know is I was on the losing side of the argument and there were not many members on my side. I believe I even said in one of my posts that a change like this would happen and many are going to regret what they are saying...or maybe I just thought it..haha. I went dark on the forums for a couple of weeks about certain topics because so many people were for the change.
That all being said, I still play the game and I still don't have the issues that so many people are having. I don't want to say any one is embellishing their experiences, but when these percentages are being thrown around of how often something occurs, it tends to be a little exaggerated.
I know some people want change, but this is not how we need to go about it. Provide the evidence of what is occurring. Stream the game and show the issues you are encountering. Provide the videos demonstrating what you see happening. If I were to stream for 3-4 games straight, all being VS, I guarantee you will not see everything people on these boards are saying they are witnessing each game. Every couple, sure, but now were into the argument, how realistic is that to the real NHL and are the proportions of them occurring matching up.
Again, provide the videos and don't be afraid of the idiots who are going to criticize your game. Meaning just ignore the get good comments. If you really believe there is something wrong, show the devs the clips. And if you believe it's happening on multiple occasions, show multiple clips. Posting one video and saying it happens all the time just doesn't cut it. I am never going to say something is true or not because I can only base them off my own experiences. I'm assuming this is why the Devs are not understanding the complaints, because they are not dealing with them as much either.
Anyways, a question for everyone saying they have seen an increase in short side goals. What game mode are you playing? Many of the videos I see posted looks like Threes. I only play VS and I have not seen an increase in these goals. Is that why my experiences are different than yours? Just wondering.
For the beta and for about a month the goalies were good and after the whining and crying from the elite cheesers the goalies are trash
The issue is that everyone in the community were complaining the goalies were too good. It wasn't just the "Elites" or "Game Changers". Plenty of people were saying that scoring was too difficult. There were threads in which people were stating it were impossible to score on one timers when in reality, it's probably the easier goal to score in this game.
There was a month long thread talking about how goalies were making ridiculous saves on multiple occasions in the same game. People were even complaining that games were only 1-0 going into the 3rd and requested more scoring. And all of this can be find right here in the threads. Again, this didn't come directly from the elite players, but the majority of the people on these boards.
So what did EA do? They listened to this feedback and they adjusted to what the community wanted. When you have the Elites and the casuals all saying the same thing, then of course they are going to adjust.
And I just want to note, I didn't want these changes either.
It most definitely was not everyone. I know the thread you are referring to, and many people - myself included - posted to say we appreciated how much better the goalies were than in previous games. It was like 60-40 arguing goalies needed a change.
Compare that with 99% of people now saying Tuner 1.0 was better than Tuner 1.3.
When I say "everyone", I don't mean everyone on these boards. I meant it as a general statement. If "60%" are arguing for a change plus game changers are also requesting something similar, that's the majority. And it wasn't just a single thread, it was multiple threads flooding the board. Some were saying goalies were superhumans, others were blaming DDA, and then others were saying the game was just not fun.
All I know is I was on the losing side of the argument and there were not many members on my side. I believe I even said in one of my posts that a change like this would happen and many are going to regret what they are saying...or maybe I just thought it..haha. I went dark on the forums for a couple of weeks about certain topics because so many people were for the change.
That all being said, I still play the game and I still don't have the issues that so many people are having. I don't want to say any one is embellishing their experiences, but when these percentages are being thrown around of how often something occurs, it tends to be a little exaggerated.
I know some people want change, but this is not how we need to go about it. Provide the evidence of what is occurring. Stream the game and show the issues you are encountering. Provide the videos demonstrating what you see happening. If I were to stream for 3-4 games straight, all being VS, I guarantee you will not see everything people on these boards are saying they are witnessing each game. Every couple, sure, but now were into the argument, how realistic is that to the real NHL and are the proportions of them occurring matching up.
Again, provide the videos and don't be afraid of the idiots who are going to criticize your game. Meaning just ignore the get good comments. If you really believe there is something wrong, show the devs the clips. And if you believe it's happening on multiple occasions, show multiple clips. Posting one video and saying it happens all the time just doesn't cut it. I am never going to say something is true or not because I can only base them off my own experiences. I'm assuming this is why the Devs are not understanding the complaints, because they are not dealing with them as much either.
Anyways, a question for everyone saying they have seen an increase in short side goals. What game mode are you playing? Many of the videos I see posted looks like Threes. I only play VS and I have not seen an increase in these goals. Is that why my experiences are different than yours? Just wondering.
I wanted to emphasize that it wasn't nearly everyone asking for that change, and EA made it. But it really does seem like everyone except one person on here want it changed back and EA isn't making it.
As far as videos, those have a place for showing oddities and such, but everyone knows what short side is. Two things changed that made this game like 18, and EA knows what they changed, so a video isn't necessary when the causes are known.
TLDR: **First, EA changed the hitting. A bump from behind no longer causes a stumble. This was a VERY useful tool that prevented the short side shot from being taken. The other player couldn't dangle around your defense to get to that spot, and if they somehow did, you could bump them off the shot. NHL Dev says it wasn't realistic to get bumped off so easily while skating. While that's true, that mechanic forced people to use teammates and pass the puck. It made the game more realistic overall by far than it has been in years. Also, that bump should still knock you off your shot. Here's a perfectly realistic fix: If you get hit/bumped, you suffer a 90% reduction in accuracy for 1 or 2 full seconds after that, and a 50% reduction in pass accuracy. Most NHL players can't pick a corner on an unscreened goalie while getting jostled.
TLDR: **Second, EA tuned the goalies to not recover against their momentum as much. NHL Dev said as much. This means that as you are skating towards the middle, and the goalie is tracking with you, they are not able to recover against their momentum to go back and grab that shortside shot. So now when you do get that shortside, the goalie is far weaker against stopping it - because their momentum is going against that shot's direction.
As I said, these explanations just make logical sense and don't need videos. Making it harder to separate a puck and puck carrier means the puck carrier gets to the spot for that shot far more often, and making the goalies less able to recover against their momentum means once the puck carrier gets to that spot, his shot is much more likely to get in.
PS. I play HuT, so basically versus. And now that we can see who scores on that shot, it's no longer guys with 90 accuracy, it's almost any shooter.
For the beta and for about a month the goalies were good and after the whining and crying from the elite cheesers the goalies are trash
The issue is that everyone in the community were complaining the goalies were too good. It wasn't just the "Elites" or "Game Changers". Plenty of people were saying that scoring was too difficult. There were threads in which people were stating it were impossible to score on one timers when in reality, it's probably the easier goal to score in this game.
There was a month long thread talking about how goalies were making ridiculous saves on multiple occasions in the same game. People were even complaining that games were only 1-0 going into the 3rd and requested more scoring. And all of this can be find right here in the threads. Again, this didn't come directly from the elite players, but the majority of the people on these boards.
So what did EA do? They listened to this feedback and they adjusted to what the community wanted. When you have the Elites and the casuals all saying the same thing, then of course they are going to adjust.
And I just want to note, I didn't want these changes either.
It most definitely was not everyone. I know the thread you are referring to, and many people - myself included - posted to say we appreciated how much better the goalies were than in previous games. It was like 60-40 arguing goalies needed a change.
Compare that with 99% of people now saying Tuner 1.0 was better than Tuner 1.3.
When I say "everyone", I don't mean everyone on these boards. I meant it as a general statement. If "60%" are arguing for a change plus game changers are also requesting something similar, that's the majority. And it wasn't just a single thread, it was multiple threads flooding the board. Some were saying goalies were superhumans, others were blaming DDA, and then others were saying the game was just not fun.
All I know is I was on the losing side of the argument and there were not many members on my side. I believe I even said in one of my posts that a change like this would happen and many are going to regret what they are saying...or maybe I just thought it..haha. I went dark on the forums for a couple of weeks about certain topics because so many people were for the change.
That all being said, I still play the game and I still don't have the issues that so many people are having. I don't want to say any one is embellishing their experiences, but when these percentages are being thrown around of how often something occurs, it tends to be a little exaggerated.
I know some people want change, but this is not how we need to go about it. Provide the evidence of what is occurring. Stream the game and show the issues you are encountering. Provide the videos demonstrating what you see happening. If I were to stream for 3-4 games straight, all being VS, I guarantee you will not see everything people on these boards are saying they are witnessing each game. Every couple, sure, but now were into the argument, how realistic is that to the real NHL and are the proportions of them occurring matching up.
Again, provide the videos and don't be afraid of the idiots who are going to criticize your game. Meaning just ignore the get good comments. If you really believe there is something wrong, show the devs the clips. And if you believe it's happening on multiple occasions, show multiple clips. Posting one video and saying it happens all the time just doesn't cut it. I am never going to say something is true or not because I can only base them off my own experiences. I'm assuming this is why the Devs are not understanding the complaints, because they are not dealing with them as much either.
Anyways, a question for everyone saying they have seen an increase in short side goals. What game mode are you playing? Many of the videos I see posted looks like Threes. I only play VS and I have not seen an increase in these goals. Is that why my experiences are different than yours? Just wondering.
I wanted to emphasize that it wasn't nearly everyone asking for that change, and EA made it. But it really does seem like everyone except one person on here want it changed back and EA isn't making it.
As far as videos, those have a place for showing oddities and such, but everyone knows what short side is. Two things changed that made this game like 18, and EA knows what they changed, so a video isn't necessary when the causes are known.
TLDR: **First, EA changed the hitting. A bump from behind no longer causes a stumble. This was a VERY useful tool that prevented the short side shot from being taken. The other player couldn't dangle around your defense to get to that spot, and if they somehow did, you could bump them off the shot. NHL Dev says it wasn't realistic to get bumped off so easily while skating. While that's true, that mechanic forced people to use teammates and pass the puck. It made the game more realistic overall by far than it has been in years. Also, that bump should still knock you off your shot. Here's a perfectly realistic fix: If you get hit/bumped, you suffer a 90% reduction in accuracy for 1 or 2 full seconds after that, and a 50% reduction in pass accuracy. Most NHL players can't pick a corner on an unscreened goalie while getting jostled.
TLDR: **Second, EA tuned the goalies to not recover against their momentum as much. NHL Dev said as much. This means that as you are skating towards the middle, and the goalie is tracking with you, they are not able to recover against their momentum to go back and grab that shortside shot. So now when you do get that shortside, the goalie is far weaker against stopping it - because their momentum is going against that shot's direction.
As I said, these explanations just make logical sense and don't need videos. Making it harder to separate a puck and puck carrier means the puck carrier gets to the spot for that shot far more often, and making the goalies less able to recover against their momentum means once the puck carrier gets to that spot, his shot is much more likely to get in.
PS. I play HuT, so basically versus. And now that we can see who scores on that shot, it's no longer guys with 90 accuracy, it's almost any shooter.
I don't know if you are referring to me as that "one" person. I more or less don't care either way as my experiences have shown the game plays the same.
What you say isn't logical to me because I havent experienced it. That doesn't mean it's not happening and I understand that. So if EA reverts back to a previous tuner/patch, then so be it. If they don't, then it doesn't bother me because I am still enjoying the game.
For the beta and for about a month the goalies were good and after the whining and crying from the elite cheesers the goalies are trash
The issue is that everyone in the community were complaining the goalies were too good. It wasn't just the "Elites" or "Game Changers". Plenty of people were saying that scoring was too difficult. There were threads in which people were stating it were impossible to score on one timers when in reality, it's probably the easier goal to score in this game.
There was a month long thread talking about how goalies were making ridiculous saves on multiple occasions in the same game. People were even complaining that games were only 1-0 going into the 3rd and requested more scoring. And all of this can be find right here in the threads. Again, this didn't come directly from the elite players, but the majority of the people on these boards.
So what did EA do? They listened to this feedback and they adjusted to what the community wanted. When you have the Elites and the casuals all saying the same thing, then of course they are going to adjust.
And I just want to note, I didn't want these changes either.
It most definitely was not everyone. I know the thread you are referring to, and many people - myself included - posted to say we appreciated how much better the goalies were than in previous games. It was like 60-40 arguing goalies needed a change.
Compare that with 99% of people now saying Tuner 1.0 was better than Tuner 1.3.
When I say "everyone", I don't mean everyone on these boards. I meant it as a general statement. If "60%" are arguing for a change plus game changers are also requesting something similar, that's the majority. And it wasn't just a single thread, it was multiple threads flooding the board. Some were saying goalies were superhumans, others were blaming DDA, and then others were saying the game was just not fun.
All I know is I was on the losing side of the argument and there were not many members on my side. I believe I even said in one of my posts that a change like this would happen and many are going to regret what they are saying...or maybe I just thought it..haha. I went dark on the forums for a couple of weeks about certain topics because so many people were for the change.
That all being said, I still play the game and I still don't have the issues that so many people are having. I don't want to say any one is embellishing their experiences, but when these percentages are being thrown around of how often something occurs, it tends to be a little exaggerated.
I know some people want change, but this is not how we need to go about it. Provide the evidence of what is occurring. Stream the game and show the issues you are encountering. Provide the videos demonstrating what you see happening. If I were to stream for 3-4 games straight, all being VS, I guarantee you will not see everything people on these boards are saying they are witnessing each game. Every couple, sure, but now were into the argument, how realistic is that to the real NHL and are the proportions of them occurring matching up.
Again, provide the videos and don't be afraid of the idiots who are going to criticize your game. Meaning just ignore the get good comments. If you really believe there is something wrong, show the devs the clips. And if you believe it's happening on multiple occasions, show multiple clips. Posting one video and saying it happens all the time just doesn't cut it. I am never going to say something is true or not because I can only base them off my own experiences. I'm assuming this is why the Devs are not understanding the complaints, because they are not dealing with them as much either.
Anyways, a question for everyone saying they have seen an increase in short side goals. What game mode are you playing? Many of the videos I see posted looks like Threes. I only play VS and I have not seen an increase in these goals. Is that why my experiences are different than yours? Just wondering.
I wanted to emphasize that it wasn't nearly everyone asking for that change, and EA made it. But it really does seem like everyone except one person on here want it changed back and EA isn't making it.
As far as videos, those have a place for showing oddities and such, but everyone knows what short side is. Two things changed that made this game like 18, and EA knows what they changed, so a video isn't necessary when the causes are known.
TLDR: **First, EA changed the hitting. A bump from behind no longer causes a stumble. This was a VERY useful tool that prevented the short side shot from being taken. The other player couldn't dangle around your defense to get to that spot, and if they somehow did, you could bump them off the shot. NHL Dev says it wasn't realistic to get bumped off so easily while skating. While that's true, that mechanic forced people to use teammates and pass the puck. It made the game more realistic overall by far than it has been in years. Also, that bump should still knock you off your shot. Here's a perfectly realistic fix: If you get hit/bumped, you suffer a 90% reduction in accuracy for 1 or 2 full seconds after that, and a 50% reduction in pass accuracy. Most NHL players can't pick a corner on an unscreened goalie while getting jostled.
TLDR: **Second, EA tuned the goalies to not recover against their momentum as much. NHL Dev said as much. This means that as you are skating towards the middle, and the goalie is tracking with you, they are not able to recover against their momentum to go back and grab that shortside shot. So now when you do get that shortside, the goalie is far weaker against stopping it - because their momentum is going against that shot's direction.
As I said, these explanations just make logical sense and don't need videos. Making it harder to separate a puck and puck carrier means the puck carrier gets to the spot for that shot far more often, and making the goalies less able to recover against their momentum means once the puck carrier gets to that spot, his shot is much more likely to get in.
PS. I play HuT, so basically versus. And now that we can see who scores on that shot, it's no longer guys with 90 accuracy, it's almost any shooter.
I don't know if you are referring to me as that "one" person. I more or less don't care either way as my experiences have shown the game plays the same.
What you say isn't logical to me because I havent experienced it. That doesn't mean it's not happening and I understand that. So if EA reverts back to a previous tuner/patch, then so be it. If they don't, then it doesn't bother me because I am still enjoying the game.
You're not the one person I'm referring to. It is still logical, regardless of personal experience, it's a logical argument, not an empirical one. But it's fine if you haven't experienced it, of course.
I've had the new tuners change my experience dramatically. When I played the beta and early release, I tried my old tricks from 18 - dancing and picking short side or going for the cross-crease one timer. It didn't work. I had to change. Now it works again and I do it all the time.
I think my experience (and those who also "Do" the cheese) should be considered more reliable by EA than those people saying it's merely happening to them. I know I couldn't play this way at release - because I tried. But I also know I can do it now - and do all the time.
It is a brand new system -- and I am not even referencing all the new animations when I say that. At a high level, the old system was a stateflow system and this new system is a pose trajectory matching system. The new system allows us to make quicker blends that are still fairly believable and accurate to what should be physically possible.
with the overhead camera, which is what i play on, it all looks the same to me. i haven't noticed any 'new' animations at all. there are no new animations to allow defense around the blue line to keep the puck in the zone, issues that existed with TPS are still there like your player spinning the wrong way, and the LT is still the skate backwards button. yes, our players are a tad more agile than last year but nothing that would make me believe it's a whole new engine. i was able replicate the 19 beta skating by boosting the acc, agi and spd sliders in NHL 18 to near max. i'm not seeing a new engine here when the core mechanics are all the same.
As an example, through a stateflow system, you may need to wait to get to a branch out point where as with a system like the new one, you can branch out much faster as the system finds a pose (by allowing it to jump to interior frames within other animations) that is closer to what you are requesting to do by looking at the current location of certain joints and their trajectories to give you something that will blend faster to the new action you want to take on.
We also changed our input model. The old system had limits in how it blended inputs where as now the input is much more raw and will blend based on how quickly the Player asks for change rather than set rates like the old system and then runs through the motion model for what is possible as opposed to being limited by the input model and it's blending.
this all sounds great, but how does improved blending of animations constitute a 'new' skating engine, when like i said before, all of the core skating mechanics remain the same?
Maybe the new system adds to some of the problems you call out. I wouldn't agree with turning like a sailboat at all as I think the new system is technically too responsive at times if you are looking for realism but defenders are possibly even quicker to react to get back -- but things like that could be tuned. We could slow down backskating speeds/pivot speeds, increase top end speed, etc.. but at the heart of it, the new system is superior to the last one in terms of what it allows us to do and the control it gives players on a frame to frame basis.
they are all the same problems actually. the swivel skating which feels like table top hockey is still there, albeit less intrusive because our players are a tad bit faster, but it's still there. when you''re guy swivels the wrong way for no apparent reason it feels like i'm trying to skate in gym shoes.
interestingly enough, my main issue with this game is not so much with the skating anymore even though i feel it could still be greatly improved upon, but rather the skill stick. not sure if you read my earlier posts, but not being able to deke backhand forehand and skate at the same time is just a bizarre decision in my opinion. as soon as you make any input with the right stick the skater will go into a glide. if you watch the NHL which i'm sure you do, you will see players stick handling and skating at the same time, every single shift. i also hate the auto dekes that are tied to the skill stick and the lack of responsiveness when using the skill stick in general. it feels extremely sluggish to me.
Another potential solution would be allowing voice commands to help your goalie learn your opponents tendencies.
For example, I would love to be able to say to my HUT goalie “hey idiot he’s trying to pick short side for the 90th time this game so overcommit to that since he’s not going to attempt anything remotely creative” or “hey moron just stand on the backhand post every time he’s on a breakaway because he’s going to try that move every time and probably isn’t even looking at his TV while playing”.
Another potential solution would be allowing voice commands to help your goalie learn your opponents tendencies.
For example, I would love to be able to say to my HUT goalie “hey idiot he’s trying to pick short side for the 90th time this game so overcommit to that since he’s not going to attempt anything remotely creative” or “hey moron just stand on the backhand post every time he’s on a breakaway because he’s going to try that move every time and probably isn’t even looking at his TV while playing”.
That would be a real breakthrough!
This 100%
I Sometimes wonder if my goalie was having a few drinks before the game. Letting in short side goals like that is just absolutely hilarious.
Another potential solution would be allowing voice commands to help your goalie learn your opponents tendencies.
For example, I would love to be able to say to my HUT goalie “hey idiot he’s trying to pick short side for the 90th time this game so overcommit to that since he’s not going to attempt anything remotely creative” or “hey moron just stand on the backhand post every time he’s on a breakaway because he’s going to try that move every time and probably isn’t even looking at his TV while playing”.
That would be a real breakthrough!
Warning: The following is pie-in-the-sky, "wouldn't it be great" musing. I don't believe it's something that is coming soon or would be easy to implement.
What I would love to see at some point is actual machine learning brought into the game. The game should be gathering data from each game to track how people play. Where are goals scored from? On what kind of shots? What breakaway moves are being used the most? etc.
That data could then be used to constantly update the AI behavior to better anticipate what people are actually doing in aggregate. I'm sure there would always be weaknesses in the AI play, but if it was constantly learning from how people are actually playing at least the "go to" plays would have to change as the year goes on and would only be feasible until the AI caught up.
It definitely wouldn't be trivial to implement but there's nothing technically impossible about this. And it would definitely be a game changer.
Another potential solution would be allowing voice commands to help your goalie learn your opponents tendencies.
For example, I would love to be able to say to my HUT goalie “hey idiot he’s trying to pick short side for the 90th time this game so overcommit to that since he’s not going to attempt anything remotely creative” or “hey moron just stand on the backhand post every time he’s on a breakaway because he’s going to try that move every time and probably isn’t even looking at his TV while playing”.
That would be a real breakthrough!
Warning: The following is pie-in-the-sky, "wouldn't it be great" musing. I don't believe it's something that is coming soon or would be easy to implement.
What I would love to see at some point is actual machine learning brought into the game. The game should be gathering data from each game to track how people play. Where are goals scored from? On what kind of shots? What breakaway moves are being used the most? etc.
That data could then be used to constantly update the AI behavior to better anticipate what people are actually doing in aggregate. I'm sure there would always be weaknesses in the AI play, but if it was constantly learning from how people are actually playing at least the "go to" plays would have to change as the year goes on and would only be feasible until the AI caught up.
It definitely wouldn't be trivial to implement but there's nothing technically impossible about this. And it would definitely be a game changer.
Supposedly this happens in each game (I have my doubts on how well it works), but that's an excellent idea. Let the goalies learn from all games at all times. That would dramatically cut down on cheese goals. The more cheese, the better a goalie would get at stopping it.
Stops 75% of deflections and one timers.
Stops 10% of short side cheese shots *if you do it right* and defense doesn't block
Stops 0% of Backhand forehand breakaways
Stops 0% of hold to forehand cut in from top of circle, top corner on the side the side you cut in from
human controlled goalies are still horrible as well. the goalie i played with last night kept complaining his guy was moving the opposite way he was pressing. having played goalie on last gen and a little bit on this gen i believe him because i've experienced that as well. another thing that was screwed up. i could go into another 500 word post on why playing goalie is less rewarding than ever.
Was sniping some short side goals and getting some sniped on me, but I realized something.
Why do the goalies over react to the smallest short side shot? They go for the big windmill glove save deep in their net instead of coming out, cutting off the angle and making a calm save like 100% of NHL goalies do today. Like I just do not understand it.
Is this game being marketed for like 10 year olds who watch twitch steamers and want to snipe top cheese all day all while puck ragging?? This is nothing like real hockey.
Replies
Odd time you get guys who try it the whole game, sometimes they get one or more, and if your unlucky like me 2 on 7 shots.
Right now it’s so easy to pot one short side, it is easier and attempted more than screened shots, point shots, deflections and one timers combined because it’s so effective when it shouldn’t be.
If the shot is in the slot I’m fine with that going in more on either side, but goalies are Elite and EA makes it seem like they are not.
The only reason you can pull up a few of these goals is because NHL teams take so many of these shots. 85% of all NHL shots are "clean shots" - unscreened shots from distance (not just above the circles) where the goalie is set. NHL goalies save 95% of those shots, and since that includes shots in the homeplate area, the save percentage on shots from above the circles is even higher than that.
The problem in this game is that people take many fewer of those shots than IRL (if only because there are so many fewer shots in general), and score at a higher rate than IRL. Save percentage on unscreened shots from above the circles should be, at best, 95%. But in this game it's closer to 80%, or even lower.
There are a lot of percentages being thrown around in this comment and I'm just wondering whether you are estimating or actually have the data to back it up. Are these percentages being looked at per game or over an 82 game season?
If I'm basing these percents off of my own games played, then they would be highly inaccurate. I'm just not seeing my goalies fail on these types of shots as much as you are implying. As I have said before though, I play a very conservative style of defense, so maybe that could be the case? My GAA is about 1.56 and the goals for is just a hair past 3. So I'm seeing about 4 goals a game and rarely do I see those perimeter shots.
can we please stop calling this a 'new' skating engine? there is nothing new about it, it's TPS with a very slight increase in sliders. not sure how they don't get sued for false advertising tbh.
huh??? half of this thread is people complaining that they can't move (like in previous years) and the other half are people are complaining about glitch goals, what are you talking about? this skating engine is exactly the same as it the last one. you still turn like a sail boat, LT for vision control is still wonky and skaters are still being caught from behind by what should be slower defenders. please show me an example of a change you noticed. remember they called this RPM not a tweaked TPS so i'd like you to show me what the difference is.
It is a brand new system -- and I am not even referencing all the new animations when I say that. At a high level, the old system was a stateflow system and this new system is a pose trajectory matching system. The new system allows us to make quicker blends that are still fairly believable and accurate to what should be physically possible.
As an example, through a stateflow system, you may need to wait to get to a branch out point where as with a system like the new one, you can branch out much faster as the system finds a pose (by allowing it to jump to interior frames within other animations) that is closer to what you are requesting to do by looking at the current location of certain joints and their trajectories to give you something that will blend faster to the new action you want to take on.
We also changed our input model. The old system had limits in how it blended inputs where as now the input is much more raw and will blend based on how quickly the Player asks for change rather than set rates like the old system and then runs through the motion model for what is possible as opposed to being limited by the input model and it's blending.
Maybe the new system adds to some of the problems you call out. I wouldn't agree with turning like a sailboat at all as I think the new system is technically too responsive at times if you are looking for realism but defenders are possibly even quicker to react to get back -- but things like that could be tuned. We could slow down backskating speeds/pivot speeds, increase top end speed, etc.. but at the heart of it, the new system is superior to the last one in terms of what it allows us to do and the control it gives players on a frame to frame basis.
It most definitely was not everyone. I know the thread you are referring to, and many people - myself included - posted to say we appreciated how much better the goalies were than in previous games. It was like 60-40 arguing goalies needed a change.
Compare that with 99% of people now saying Tuner 1.0 was better than Tuner 1.3.
When I say "everyone", I don't mean everyone on these boards. I meant it as a general statement. If "60%" are arguing for a change plus game changers are also requesting something similar, that's the majority. And it wasn't just a single thread, it was multiple threads flooding the board. Some were saying goalies were superhumans, others were blaming DDA, and then others were saying the game was just not fun.
All I know is I was on the losing side of the argument and there were not many members on my side. I believe I even said in one of my posts that a change like this would happen and many are going to regret what they are saying...or maybe I just thought it..haha. I went dark on the forums for a couple of weeks about certain topics because so many people were for the change.
That all being said, I still play the game and I still don't have the issues that so many people are having. I don't want to say any one is embellishing their experiences, but when these percentages are being thrown around of how often something occurs, it tends to be a little exaggerated.
I know some people want change, but this is not how we need to go about it. Provide the evidence of what is occurring. Stream the game and show the issues you are encountering. Provide the videos demonstrating what you see happening. If I were to stream for 3-4 games straight, all being VS, I guarantee you will not see everything people on these boards are saying they are witnessing each game. Every couple, sure, but now were into the argument, how realistic is that to the real NHL and are the proportions of them occurring matching up.
Again, provide the videos and don't be afraid of the idiots who are going to criticize your game. Meaning just ignore the get good comments. If you really believe there is something wrong, show the devs the clips. And if you believe it's happening on multiple occasions, show multiple clips. Posting one video and saying it happens all the time just doesn't cut it. I am never going to say something is true or not because I can only base them off my own experiences. I'm assuming this is why the Devs are not understanding the complaints, because they are not dealing with them as much either.
Anyways, a question for everyone saying they have seen an increase in short side goals. What game mode are you playing? Many of the videos I see posted looks like Threes. I only play VS and I have not seen an increase in these goals. Is that why my experiences are different than yours? Just wondering.
I wanted to emphasize that it wasn't nearly everyone asking for that change, and EA made it. But it really does seem like everyone except one person on here want it changed back and EA isn't making it.
As far as videos, those have a place for showing oddities and such, but everyone knows what short side is. Two things changed that made this game like 18, and EA knows what they changed, so a video isn't necessary when the causes are known.
TLDR: **First, EA changed the hitting. A bump from behind no longer causes a stumble. This was a VERY useful tool that prevented the short side shot from being taken. The other player couldn't dangle around your defense to get to that spot, and if they somehow did, you could bump them off the shot. NHL Dev says it wasn't realistic to get bumped off so easily while skating. While that's true, that mechanic forced people to use teammates and pass the puck. It made the game more realistic overall by far than it has been in years. Also, that bump should still knock you off your shot. Here's a perfectly realistic fix: If you get hit/bumped, you suffer a 90% reduction in accuracy for 1 or 2 full seconds after that, and a 50% reduction in pass accuracy. Most NHL players can't pick a corner on an unscreened goalie while getting jostled.
TLDR: **Second, EA tuned the goalies to not recover against their momentum as much. NHL Dev said as much. This means that as you are skating towards the middle, and the goalie is tracking with you, they are not able to recover against their momentum to go back and grab that shortside shot. So now when you do get that shortside, the goalie is far weaker against stopping it - because their momentum is going against that shot's direction.
As I said, these explanations just make logical sense and don't need videos. Making it harder to separate a puck and puck carrier means the puck carrier gets to the spot for that shot far more often, and making the goalies less able to recover against their momentum means once the puck carrier gets to that spot, his shot is much more likely to get in.
PS. I play HuT, so basically versus. And now that we can see who scores on that shot, it's no longer guys with 90 accuracy, it's almost any shooter.
I don't know if you are referring to me as that "one" person. I more or less don't care either way as my experiences have shown the game plays the same.
What you say isn't logical to me because I havent experienced it. That doesn't mean it's not happening and I understand that. So if EA reverts back to a previous tuner/patch, then so be it. If they don't, then it doesn't bother me because I am still enjoying the game.
You're not the one person I'm referring to. It is still logical, regardless of personal experience, it's a logical argument, not an empirical one. But it's fine if you haven't experienced it, of course.
I've had the new tuners change my experience dramatically. When I played the beta and early release, I tried my old tricks from 18 - dancing and picking short side or going for the cross-crease one timer. It didn't work. I had to change. Now it works again and I do it all the time.
I think my experience (and those who also "Do" the cheese) should be considered more reliable by EA than those people saying it's merely happening to them. I know I couldn't play this way at release - because I tried. But I also know I can do it now - and do all the time.
not sure what you mean by this? i don't see where it would apply to anything i said.
with the overhead camera, which is what i play on, it all looks the same to me. i haven't noticed any 'new' animations at all. there are no new animations to allow defense around the blue line to keep the puck in the zone, issues that existed with TPS are still there like your player spinning the wrong way, and the LT is still the skate backwards button. yes, our players are a tad more agile than last year but nothing that would make me believe it's a whole new engine. i was able replicate the 19 beta skating by boosting the acc, agi and spd sliders in NHL 18 to near max. i'm not seeing a new engine here when the core mechanics are all the same.
this all sounds great, but how does improved blending of animations constitute a 'new' skating engine, when like i said before, all of the core skating mechanics remain the same?
they are all the same problems actually. the swivel skating which feels like table top hockey is still there, albeit less intrusive because our players are a tad bit faster, but it's still there. when you''re guy swivels the wrong way for no apparent reason it feels like i'm trying to skate in gym shoes.
interestingly enough, my main issue with this game is not so much with the skating anymore even though i feel it could still be greatly improved upon, but rather the skill stick. not sure if you read my earlier posts, but not being able to deke backhand forehand and skate at the same time is just a bizarre decision in my opinion. as soon as you make any input with the right stick the skater will go into a glide. if you watch the NHL which i'm sure you do, you will see players stick handling and skating at the same time, every single shift. i also hate the auto dekes that are tied to the skill stick and the lack of responsiveness when using the skill stick in general. it feels extremely sluggish to me.
[Edited for quote formatting @EA_Roger ]
For example, I would love to be able to say to my HUT goalie “hey idiot he’s trying to pick short side for the 90th time this game so overcommit to that since he’s not going to attempt anything remotely creative” or “hey moron just stand on the backhand post every time he’s on a breakaway because he’s going to try that move every time and probably isn’t even looking at his TV while playing”.
That would be a real breakthrough!
This 100%
I Sometimes wonder if my goalie was having a few drinks before the game. Letting in short side goals like that is just absolutely hilarious.
Warning: The following is pie-in-the-sky, "wouldn't it be great" musing. I don't believe it's something that is coming soon or would be easy to implement.
What I would love to see at some point is actual machine learning brought into the game. The game should be gathering data from each game to track how people play. Where are goals scored from? On what kind of shots? What breakaway moves are being used the most? etc.
That data could then be used to constantly update the AI behavior to better anticipate what people are actually doing in aggregate. I'm sure there would always be weaknesses in the AI play, but if it was constantly learning from how people are actually playing at least the "go to" plays would have to change as the year goes on and would only be feasible until the AI caught up.
It definitely wouldn't be trivial to implement but there's nothing technically impossible about this. And it would definitely be a game changer.
Supposedly this happens in each game (I have my doubts on how well it works), but that's an excellent idea. Let the goalies learn from all games at all times. That would dramatically cut down on cheese goals. The more cheese, the better a goalie would get at stopping it.
I also love the voice command idea!
Stops 75% of deflections and one timers.
Stops 10% of short side cheese shots *if you do it right* and defense doesn't block
Stops 0% of Backhand forehand breakaways
Stops 0% of hold to forehand cut in from top of circle, top corner on the side the side you cut in from
Why do the goalies over react to the smallest short side shot? They go for the big windmill glove save deep in their net instead of coming out, cutting off the angle and making a calm save like 100% of NHL goalies do today. Like I just do not understand it.
Is this game being marketed for like 10 year olds who watch twitch steamers and want to snipe top cheese all day all while puck ragging?? This is nothing like real hockey.