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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


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This causes a lot of slashes

Prev1
My club mate got a penalty for slashing. Upon further review, my teammate never hit the opposing players hand.

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/65320987

I think this is what causes a lot slashes. Was it the greatest decision to stick lift? Maybe not. But the problem is the stick goes through the legs when my teammate was just skating and happened to be in the players legs when he hit stick lift.

Replies

  • Yikes, this does not look good on EA's part. However, I am fairly sure there has been clipping issues on this game long before this year's game. That is not to say it is okay, I am just stating an opinion. Hopefully, this can be fixed one day, but I think it may not get fixed until the PS5 days at this rate.
    Read some of my stuff at www.sportsprowler.com
  • Yikes, this does not look good on EA's part. However, I am fairly sure there has been clipping issues on this game long before this year's game. That is not to say it is okay, I am just stating an opinion. Hopefully, this can be fixed one day, but I think it may not get fixed until the PS5 days at this rate.

    There has been clipping issues way before this game. It’s truley a great issue that’s been around and still nothing has been done about it. Maybe a new physics collisions system with stick? I don’t know. I’m not a developer. But I do know that something needs to be done, especially at this point in time. Some games have great physics systems. So why does NHL struggle with this year in and year out?
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    Yikes, this does not look good on EA's part. However, I am fairly sure there has been clipping issues on this game long before this year's game. That is not to say it is okay, I am just stating an opinion. Hopefully, this can be fixed one day, but I think it may not get fixed until the PS5 days at this rate.

    There has been clipping issues way before this game. It’s truley a great issue that’s been around and still nothing has been done about it. [/quote]

    I know it has been a legacy issue for the series, I have come to accept it as that. I hardly ever use stick lift because I always end up with a penalty despite being in good position.
    Read some of my stuff at www.sportsprowler.com
  • That’s actually not horrible compared to the stuff I see often. Have a few videos been meaning to upload but need trimming first.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • ExSnake01
    454 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    This probably has to do with the bubble that recently came back. I've seen plenty of trips that wasn't anywhere near the skates.
  • Looks like he slashed while his stick was between the legs so he got the penalty but the bad animation didn't resolve well.
  • NHLDev
    1358 posts NHL Developer
    edited December 2018
    EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    My club mate got a penalty for slashing. Upon further review, my teammate never hit the opposing players hand.

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/65320987

    I think this is what causes a lot slashes. Was it the greatest decision to stick lift? Maybe not. But the problem is the stick goes through the legs when my teammate was just skating and happened to be in the players legs when he hit stick lift.

    Yes, you are correct, if the stick hits body geo before the stick it’s a penalty. So in this case doing through the players legs was what initiated the slashing call.

    We would like to make improvements and at least add more detail to this logic like we did the pokes in regards to tripping where we don’t count a certain number of the blend in frames when looking for contact (as the player has less control over their original stick position and players in real life could make more subtle adjustments based on context). We would also rule out the legs from the test for penalty but still use them to block future contact with the stick if they happened after the blend frames to simulate it not being possible for the stick to get there.

  • ExSnake01 wrote: »
    This probably has to do with the bubble that recently came back. I've seen plenty of trips that wasn't anywhere near the skates.
    I got a tripping penalty the other day, I picked up the puck and stopped play before the guy fell down.
  • ExSnake01 wrote: »
    This probably has to do with the bubble that recently came back. I've seen plenty of trips that wasn't anywhere near the skates.

    Do you have any examples of these? And what are you referring to when you say ‘the bubble that came back recently’?

    The only change to physics volumes regarding tripping was actually making them slightly smaller so that you needed to get a slightly bigger piece of the player to trip them but that was in the early patch/tuner changes.
  • ExSnake01
    454 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    This probably has to do with the bubble that recently came back. I've seen plenty of trips that wasn't anywhere near the skates.

    Do you have any examples of these? And what are you referring to when you say ‘the bubble that came back recently’?

    The only change to physics volumes regarding tripping was actually making them slightly smaller so that you needed to get a slightly bigger piece of the player to trip them but that was in the early patch/tuner changes.

    Hitting example...I'm sliding or bouncing off players all the time now...Never really experienced this in beta:

    https://streamable.com/dfjph

    Or poke checking or stick lifting someone not anywhere near them while getting a penalty (OP's clip is another good example):

    https://www.reddit.com/r/EA_NHL/comments/9i4kdm/can_someone_please_explain_to_me_how_this_is_a/

    People here including myself are begging you guys to go back to 1.1 tuner. 1.0 would be even better since that's why I pre-ordered after playing the beta.
  • ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Hitting example...I'm sliding or bouncing off players all the time now...Never really experienced this in beta:

    https://streamable.com/dfjph
    Only changes to hitting from what was there in the Beta were to low relative speed hits from behind. A higher relative speed hit like this one from the front wouldn’t be impacted by that tuning. Would have to see the hit in debug to know exactly why the result was only a stumble. Possibly didn’t get to throw a full hit and was actually just an incidental contact collision as far as the game is concerned without full intent from the defensive player.
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Or poke checking or stick lifting someone not anywhere near them while getting a penalty (OP's clip is another good example):

    https://www.reddit.com/r/EA_NHL/comments/9i4kdm/can_someone_please_explain_to_me_how_this_is_a/

    People here including myself are begging you guys to go back to 1.1 tuner. 1.0 would be even better since that's why I pre-ordered after playing the beta.

    The OPs example was because the stick hit leg first and right now any body geo during a stick lift before stick contact is a penalty.

    For this one, it is a bit obstructed but I am thinking the top of the defensive players stick may have hit the right knee of the puck carrier. It’s a pretty light trip but would be pretty rare and we do have the ability to tune where on the leg we start to register contact so we could rule out the upper leg if we wanted or where on the defensive players stick we start to consider tripping collisions so we could rule out parts of the top end of the stick from the top hand down x distance, etc. but currently it is any part of the stick that triggers the collision volume logic.

    Thanks for posting the vids.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Hitting example...I'm sliding or bouncing off players all the time now...Never really experienced this in beta:

    https://streamable.com/dfjph
    Only changes to hitting from what was there in the Beta were to low relative speed hits from behind. A higher relative speed hit like this one from the front wouldn’t be impacted by that tuning. Would have to see the hit in debug to know exactly why the result was only a stumble. Possibly didn’t get to throw a full hit and was actually just an incidental contact collision as far as the game is concerned without full intent from the defensive player.
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Or poke checking or stick lifting someone not anywhere near them while getting a penalty (OP's clip is another good example):

    https://www.reddit.com/r/EA_NHL/comments/9i4kdm/can_someone_please_explain_to_me_how_this_is_a/

    People here including myself are begging you guys to go back to 1.1 tuner. 1.0 would be even better since that's why I pre-ordered after playing the beta.

    The OPs example was because the stick hit leg first and right now any body geo during a stick lift before stick contact is a penalty.

    For this one, it is a bit obstructed but I am thinking the top of the defensive players stick may have hit the right knee of the puck carrier. It’s a pretty light trip but would be pretty rare and we do have the ability to tune where on the leg we start to register contact so we could rule out the upper leg if we wanted or where on the defensive players stick we start to consider tripping collisions so we could rule out parts of the top end of the stick from the top hand down x distance, etc. but currently it is any part of the stick that triggers the collision volume logic.

    Thanks for posting the vids.

    I mess around with a lot of tuners offline. I tweak everything from like a 3 game basis until I'm satisfied with how it plays. One thing you notice right away is tuning one slider will also result in an impact on another slider, especially when it comes to something like hitting. If you adjust the stumble threshold, you're going to have to adjust the hitting power to compensate, so I highly disagree that in the clip where the guy snakes through along the boards would also have happened in the beta. Reason being is because nobody saw it in the beta. The player would stumble even if it was incidental contact.
  • I mess around with a lot of tuners offline. I tweak everything from like a 3 game basis until I'm satisfied with how it plays. One thing you notice right away is tuning one slider will also result in an impact on another slider, especially when it comes to something like hitting. If you adjust the stumble threshold, you're going to have to adjust the hitting power to compensate, so I highly disagree that in the clip where the guy snakes through along the boards would also have happened in the beta. Reason being is because nobody saw it in the beta. The player would stumble even if it was incidental contact.

    We opened up a lot of tuning potential when we added the increased slider set but there are thousands of variables we can post ship tune that aren’t accessible through the outward facing sliders.

    The changes to hitting were specifically to low relative speed hits and from the angle behind the player by adjusting variables that are tied directly to those things. Adjusting pieces like the stumble threshold are isolated to the threshold for stumbles but aren’t near as isolated.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    I mess around with a lot of tuners offline. I tweak everything from like a 3 game basis until I'm satisfied with how it plays. One thing you notice right away is tuning one slider will also result in an impact on another slider, especially when it comes to something like hitting. If you adjust the stumble threshold, you're going to have to adjust the hitting power to compensate, so I highly disagree that in the clip where the guy snakes through along the boards would also have happened in the beta. Reason being is because nobody saw it in the beta. The player would stumble even if it was incidental contact.

    We opened up a lot of tuning potential when we added the increased slider set but there are thousands of variables we can post ship tune that aren’t accessible through the outward facing sliders.

    The changes to hitting were specifically to low relative speed hits and from the angle behind the player by adjusting variables that are tied directly to those things. Adjusting pieces like the stumble threshold are isolated to the threshold for stumbles but aren’t near as isolated.

    I really appreciate you providing feedback to @ExSnake01 videos, this is very helpful for folks that are usually in these forums with questions. However, I noticed there was no take/comment/answer on the last piece of his original post stating, "People here including myself are begging you guys to go back to 1.1 tuner. 1.0 would be even better since that's why I pre-ordered after playing the beta."

    Can we just get an answer as to whether or not this is going to happen? Whether or not this is a possibility? Speaking for myself personally, if you all just come out and say there is no way you would revert to previous tuners, I honestly don't think this forum would serve me anymore purpose. I believe a large reason for the traffic we see here on a daily basis is due to players addressing concerns that they hope will lead to rolling back to 1.00 or 1.01 tuners. If we all can give up on, what would seem false hope at this point, there would be a lot less heat in this forum and other platforms as the community would stop complaining and be able to move on from the game and except it for what it is.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    I mess around with a lot of tuners offline. I tweak everything from like a 3 game basis until I'm satisfied with how it plays. One thing you notice right away is tuning one slider will also result in an impact on another slider, especially when it comes to something like hitting. If you adjust the stumble threshold, you're going to have to adjust the hitting power to compensate, so I highly disagree that in the clip where the guy snakes through along the boards would also have happened in the beta. Reason being is because nobody saw it in the beta. The player would stumble even if it was incidental contact.

    We opened up a lot of tuning potential when we added the increased slider set but there are thousands of variables we can post ship tune that aren’t accessible through the outward facing sliders.

    The changes to hitting were specifically to low relative speed hits and from the angle behind the player by adjusting variables that are tied directly to those things. Adjusting pieces like the stumble threshold are isolated to the threshold for stumbles but aren’t near as isolated.

    I understand, but can you explain why after tuner 1.3 we see the player bubble? It simply wasn't there prior to that tuner and people were trying to hog the puck, trust me. The play style practically hasn't changed from the beta, or previous years. All of a sudden, that play style works when it simply didn't 2 months ago. It is also why I purchased the game this year.

    I will not tell you how to do your job, but something is telling me either there are unwanted changes that happened in your last tuner, or we don't have the full story and it is working as intended.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    I mess around with a lot of tuners offline. I tweak everything from like a 3 game basis until I'm satisfied with how it plays. One thing you notice right away is tuning one slider will also result in an impact on another slider, especially when it comes to something like hitting. If you adjust the stumble threshold, you're going to have to adjust the hitting power to compensate, so I highly disagree that in the clip where the guy snakes through along the boards would also have happened in the beta. Reason being is because nobody saw it in the beta. The player would stumble even if it was incidental contact.

    We opened up a lot of tuning potential when we added the increased slider set but there are thousands of variables we can post ship tune that aren’t accessible through the outward facing sliders.

    The changes to hitting were specifically to low relative speed hits and from the angle behind the player by adjusting variables that are tied directly to those things. Adjusting pieces like the stumble threshold are isolated to the threshold for stumbles but aren’t near as isolated.

    I really appreciate you providing feedback to @ExSnake01 videos, this is very helpful for folks that are usually in these forums with questions. However, I noticed there was no take/comment/answer on the last piece of his original post stating, "People here including myself are begging you guys to go back to 1.1 tuner. 1.0 would be even better since that's why I pre-ordered after playing the beta."

    Can we just get an answer as to whether or not this is going to happen? Whether or not this is a possibility? Speaking for myself personally, if you all just come out and say there is no way you would revert to previous tuners, I honestly don't think this forum would serve me anymore purpose. I believe a large reason for the traffic we see here on a daily basis is due to players addressing concerns that they hope will lead to rolling back to 1.00 or 1.01 tuners. If we all can give up on, what would seem false hope at this point, there would be a lot less heat in this forum and other platforms as the community would stop complaining and be able to move on from the game and except it for what it is.

    They've all but come out and said they won't do this already
  • Kmahrle83 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I mess around with a lot of tuners offline. I tweak everything from like a 3 game basis until I'm satisfied with how it plays. One thing you notice right away is tuning one slider will also result in an impact on another slider, especially when it comes to something like hitting. If you adjust the stumble threshold, you're going to have to adjust the hitting power to compensate, so I highly disagree that in the clip where the guy snakes through along the boards would also have happened in the beta. Reason being is because nobody saw it in the beta. The player would stumble even if it was incidental contact.

    We opened up a lot of tuning potential when we added the increased slider set but there are thousands of variables we can post ship tune that aren’t accessible through the outward facing sliders.

    The changes to hitting were specifically to low relative speed hits and from the angle behind the player by adjusting variables that are tied directly to those things. Adjusting pieces like the stumble threshold are isolated to the threshold for stumbles but aren’t near as isolated.

    I really appreciate you providing feedback to @ExSnake01 videos, this is very helpful for folks that are usually in these forums with questions. However, I noticed there was no take/comment/answer on the last piece of his original post stating, "People here including myself are begging you guys to go back to 1.1 tuner. 1.0 would be even better since that's why I pre-ordered after playing the beta."

    Can we just get an answer as to whether or not this is going to happen? Whether or not this is a possibility? Speaking for myself personally, if you all just come out and say there is no way you would revert to previous tuners, I honestly don't think this forum would serve me anymore purpose. I believe a large reason for the traffic we see here on a daily basis is due to players addressing concerns that they hope will lead to rolling back to 1.00 or 1.01 tuners. If we all can give up on, what would seem false hope at this point, there would be a lot less heat in this forum and other platforms as the community would stop complaining and be able to move on from the game and except it for what it is.

    They've all but come out and said they won't do this already

    I simply refuse to continue to encourage this game style with my wallet. The only reason I bought 19 was because it had changed the game. Had I known this tuner was going to be the end product, I would have avoided 19 like the plague. This is not hockey, never was except for that brief beta/release month. THAT is what I paid for, not this clown representation on ice.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    ExSnake01 wrote: »
    This probably has to do with the bubble that recently came back. I've seen plenty of trips that wasn't anywhere near the skates.

    Do you have any examples of these? And what are you referring to when you say ‘the bubble that came back recently’?

    The only change to physics volumes regarding tripping was actually making them slightly smaller so that you needed to get a slightly bigger piece of the player to trip them but that was in the early patch/tuner changes.

    This one's pretty good.

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    I mess around with a lot of tuners offline. I tweak everything from like a 3 game basis until I'm satisfied with how it plays. One thing you notice right away is tuning one slider will also result in an impact on another slider, especially when it comes to something like hitting. If you adjust the stumble threshold, you're going to have to adjust the hitting power to compensate, so I highly disagree that in the clip where the guy snakes through along the boards would also have happened in the beta. Reason being is because nobody saw it in the beta. The player would stumble even if it was incidental contact.

    We opened up a lot of tuning potential when we added the increased slider set but there are thousands of variables we can post ship tune that aren’t accessible through the outward facing sliders.

    The changes to hitting were specifically to low relative speed hits and from the angle behind the player by adjusting variables that are tied directly to those things. Adjusting pieces like the stumble threshold are isolated to the threshold for stumbles but aren’t near as isolated.

    I understand, but can you explain why after tuner 1.3 we see the player bubble? It simply wasn't there prior to that tuner and people were trying to hog the puck, trust me. The play style practically hasn't changed from the beta, or previous years. All of a sudden, that play style works when it simply didn't 2 months ago. It is also why I purchased the game this year.

    I will not tell you how to do your job, but something is telling me either there are unwanted changes that happened in your last tuner, or we don't have the full story and it is working as intended.

    What mode are you playing?

    I've found that in EASHL 6s the change to the low-speed hits from behind hasn't been too bad but that's because there's less room and you can double team a player into a bad spot easier without opening yourself up too much.

    In EASHL 3s though, it's been a horrible change. Any halfway decent player can just turn his back to you and roll off any attempt to knock him off the puck. Doing a double-team is a lot less palatable when you're essentially giving the other team a free two on one as a result.

    The two modes play so differently I'm a bit surprised that they don't have different tuners.
  • What mode are you playing?

    I've found that in EASHL 6s the change to the low-speed hits from behind hasn't been too bad but that's because there's less room and you can double team a player into a bad spot easier without opening yourself up too much.

    In EASHL 3s though, it's been a horrible change. Any halfway decent player can just turn his back to you and roll off any attempt to knock him off the puck. Doing a double-team is a lot less palatable when you're essentially giving the other team a free two on one as a result.

    The two modes play so differently I'm a bit surprised that they don't have different tuners.
    3 on 3 OT in the NHL plays very differently to the full game as well. It is the nature of the mode. We don't intend to tune it differently to make the two modes play the same, the whole point is to allow the different play styles come out with the changes in the structure, not the tuning.

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