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Bacon Country asks "Would you buy NHL 19 now?" Everyone says no.

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  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    No dude, I play D exclusively.

    You know what I love to see? People playing this game as you describe, trying for the same 3 shots all game long.

    Easy to defend. Good teams have to score greasy goals, tips, rebounds, one-t. You never see people doing the nonsense you're talking about in a competitive 6s game. It's not even easy to score those cheese goals in 3s vs a team d-ing it.

    The only goal I think needs to be dealt with is the short side in the specific situation where the d has the cc covered so the goalie should lock that down. The rest is fine.

    All I can say is you're fortunate if you never encounter these types of teams. Maybe competitive teams don't try them, so what? Is this game made for competitive teams only? You're still missing the point, if the competitive teams don't use the curl back (and I very much doubt it), or the short-side bug wrister, then why are you so opposed against the devs doing something about them? Why?

    You think they should be in the game, because they're part of hockey? Yes, short-side wristers go in sometimes, but almost EVERY time? You don't see that in sixes, because human goalies know what to do. It's a BUG that doesn't apply to competitive sixes, for goodness sake! Why bring competitive teams or 6v6 into it? It has no bearing on the issue.

    Whereas curling tippy toes, you can see that a plenty at least where I am playing, regardless of the level or number of players. I don't play much leagues anymore, and it's absolutely true competitive teams don't need or use it I guess, but then I imagine they wouldn't oppose eliminating the invulnerable tripod which does bounce almost every hit. Claiming it doesn't work is just ignorance on your part.




    The hit from behind at beta was trash, it absolutely should have been elimintated and players punished for attempting off center hits at low speed. Definately.

    As to your other points it seems like you want AI goalies to be randomized for when they'll allow high % shots to go in. When you randomize these things it doesn't take long for them to not feel so random. I don't want you to have an AI goalie standing on his head while I've got one allowing trash because it feels more "random" (its 0s and 1s, it's NOT random). It's far better to have those be goals if you play bad defense.
  • ExSnake01 wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »

    How many times I've seen someone post a video on this forum claiming "hits just bounce off" and it was a garbage try.

    Never?

    https://www.reddit.com/r/EA_NHL/comments/a4ns8k/what_on_earth_did_they_do_to_hitting_this_guy/



    This video gives us the benefit of seeing the imputs, for some reason the D didn't hit the puck carrier at all, he just kind of skated into him. You want that rewarded, with what?
  • jiajji wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    If you stop people from getting to those spots they'll either get creative or lose, as you face better competition people will able to score from all over the ice. People cant expect the developers to bail them out of bad defense.

    I see tips and cycling all the time, the better teams ALL cycle the puck.

    I agree with you, but Tuner 1.03 nerfed all the defensive tools. Stick lifting is nearly impossible, hitting is ineffective, the DSS is useless, and poking is lackluster at best (and if you're at all delayed on the connection, it's useless too).

    I don't need devs to bail out my bad defense, I want my tools back that allowed me to play defense. I'm fine with high danger areas being high scoring areas, but it's nearly impossible to keep people out of those areas after 1.03.

    Those tools are ALL there. How are we supposed to discuss this with that amount of hyperbole in your post?

    Hitting is 30% as effective as in 1.00
    Stick Lift is 5% as effective as in 1.00
    DSS is 100% as effective as in 1.00 - and it still sucks


    Better?

    No, those are completely arbitrary #s you pulled from your 🎃🎃🎃🎃, how could it be better?

    "hitting is 30% as effective"

    Hitting should have been toned down, thats a +

    "Stick Lift is 5% as effective as in 1.00"

    Stick lift is 100% effective with good positioning, I don't suppose you're saying you'd like to be able to stick lift effectively when you've been beaten, but maybe you don't want to take penalties when you're beaten?

    "DSS is 100% as effective as in 1.00 - and it still sucks"

    Really? I use it all the time, it's my favorite tool, what sucks about it?

    "Poke is 75% as effective as in 1.00."

    Tripping has been nerfed, meaning Poke is more effective.

    You thought my qualitative terms were hyperbole, now you don't want quantitative numbers either. Of course they're arbitrary. I was using them to show how absurd your criticism of my qualitative statements was.

    You play 6s, not versus/HUT, so your experience will be radically different. My points are valid, you just disagree. I'll focus on your stick lift response, as it exemplifies the flawed argument you are making. You claim that stick lift is "100% effective with good positioning." I will point out that it is 100% effective with 100% proper positioning. But if you go to 90% proper positioning, you're getting a penalty. Ridiculous.

    In 1.00 it was 100% effective down to, say, 80% proper positioning, and you didn't draw a penalty unless you were at, say, below 50% proper positioning. From 50% to 79.9%, you just missed. A 10% window of success or else penalty is not realistic, and murders the proper risk/reward balance that existed in 1.00.

    Stick lift is now 90% risk, 10% reward, and a large amount of the time, if you hit that 10% reward, they get the puck back anyway.

    This analysis is why I am right by saying "stick lift is nearly impossible."
  • Never posted before, this popped in my google news feed of all places. Avid chel guy, agree the games a disaster.

    Clearly the need for two separate tuners as 6v6 is clearly a different animal than vs/HUT. Tho what I would really like to see for EASHL is a community editable competitive mod (see online league games like c.s 1.6 and call of duty etc) for competitive leagues.

    Something like this allows you to leave the core game alone for casual users and will allow the competive community to tweak the game to be better suited to an E-sports type setting.

    You have two different communities with two different opinions and only one game. Stop trying to make 1 game for two communities and start giving us some tools to improve it for everyone


    You’re not getting the job done!



    Well said.
  • jiajji wrote: »
    LeFury_27 wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    LeFury_27 wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    Kuus2 wrote: »
    All I want is for them to either nerf ragging the puck behind players back to the ground and do something to disencourage skating backwards.

    Not only does the puck ragging make you immune to checking, but as AI D-men are muted only way to challenge is 1on1, which ALWAYS leaves one man out of position since that move simply cannot be beaten when done right. (Always a pass or deke opportunity)

    Skating backwards not only is an incredibly easy way to turn away from the opposing D-man, you also get a speed boost while turning.

    My eyes hurt from all the rolling when I happen to match up with any top 100 player in comp seasons due to these mechanics. Hockey in my mind should not look as it does currently at the top level.

    But that is what the Devs have called the Skill Gap , these latest tuner have made this game garbage well except this latest patch it took away that cheesy backhand flip glitch shoot away and the elite are already crying about it

    Skill gap lies in the fact Players can "rag" vs some opponents and not others.

    People want the game dumbed down so everyone is good at D, not necessarily a bad idea if that's what gets sales.

    I'd say "dumbed down" is being able to score the exact same goal every time on a breakaway/penalty shot by doing the same move. Or by going to a certain spot on the ice and taking a wrist shot to have it go in every single time as long as it's not blocked or you don't miss the net.

    I'd love to see some creativity but you know some people are against that. A question, does real life hockey work like this? I don't think it does but you tell me.

    I really think what you mean is it's dumbed down so everyone is good at offense. You know, being able to memorize certain moves/shots that go in every time. No need to cycle, shoot from the point, try for deflections or actually make good passing plays. Reward players who have 0 Hockey IQ and don't have any idea how the sport is played.

    No dude, I play D exclusively.

    You know what I love to see? People playing this game as you describe, trying for the same 3 shots all game long.

    Easy to defend. Good teams have to score greasy goals, tips, rebounds, one-t. You never see people doing the nonsense you're talking about in a competitive 6s game. It's not even easy to score those cheese goals in 3s vs a team d-ing it.

    The only goal I think needs to be dealt with is the short side in the specific situation where the d has the cc covered so the goalie should lock that down. The rest is fine.

    I don't know if your trolling or not lol. Because if you have played 3's and don't know what I'm talking about than I don't know what to tell you because about 90% of the people on this forum do and have seen it since NHL 16. I guess you must be too good and can defend like bobby orr. But I read every social media platform and you are in about the 5% that either say these goals are non-existent, are easy to defend or should be in the game.

    Anyways, you do you.
    LeFury_27 wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    LeFury_27 wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    Kuus2 wrote: »
    All I want is for them to either nerf ragging the puck behind players back to the ground and do something to disencourage skating backwards.

    Not only does the puck ragging make you immune to checking, but as AI D-men are muted only way to challenge is 1on1, which ALWAYS leaves one man out of position since that move simply cannot be beaten when done right. (Always a pass or deke opportunity)

    Skating backwards not only is an incredibly easy way to turn away from the opposing D-man, you also get a speed boost while turning.

    My eyes hurt from all the rolling when I happen to match up with any top 100 player in comp seasons due to these mechanics. Hockey in my mind should not look as it does currently at the top level.

    But that is what the Devs have called the Skill Gap , these latest tuner have made this game garbage well except this latest patch it took away that cheesy backhand flip glitch shoot away and the elite are already crying about it

    Skill gap lies in the fact Players can "rag" vs some opponents and not others.

    People want the game dumbed down so everyone is good at D, not necessarily a bad idea if that's what gets sales.

    I'd say "dumbed down" is being able to score the exact same goal every time on a breakaway/penalty shot by doing the same move. Or by going to a certain spot on the ice and taking a wrist shot to have it go in every single time as long as it's not blocked or you don't miss the net.

    I'd love to see some creativity but you know some people are against that. A question, does real life hockey work like this? I don't think it does but you tell me.

    I really think what you mean is it's dumbed down so everyone is good at offense. You know, being able to memorize certain moves/shots that go in every time. No need to cycle, shoot from the point, try for deflections or actually make good passing plays. Reward players who have 0 Hockey IQ and don't have any idea how the sport is played.

    No dude, I play D exclusively.

    You know what I love to see? People playing this game as you describe, trying for the same 3 shots all game long.

    Easy to defend. Good teams have to score greasy goals, tips, rebounds, one-t. You never see people doing the nonsense you're talking about in a competitive 6s game. It's not even easy to score those cheese goals in 3s vs a team d-ing it.

    The only goal I think needs to be dealt with is the short side in the specific situation where the d has the cc covered so the goalie should lock that down. The rest is fine.

    I don't know if your trolling or not lol. Because if you have played 3's and don't know what I'm talking about than I don't know what to tell you because about 90% of the people on this forum do and have seen it since NHL 16. I guess you must be too good and can defend like bobby orr. But I read every social media platform and you are in about the 5% that either say these goals are non-existent, are easy to defend or should be in the game.

    Anyways, you do you.

    First off let's all agree that Hockey is a 6v6 game and this game should be tuned to reflect that with everything else being a throw in.

    Yup.
  • ExSnake01
    466 posts Member
    edited December 2018

    Probably because implementing pond hockey which nobody asked for made EA hit their budget cap for expenses.

    Also, the team for BF5 are on their heels after bad publicity so engaging with their fanbase would benefit them in sales. Take notes EA Vancouver.

  • That's the definition of an NHL 19 goal. Far too many games decided by something like that.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1322 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    jiajji wrote: »

    The hit from behind at beta was trash, it absolutely should have been elimintated and players punished for attempting off center hits at low speed. Definately.

    As to your other points it seems like you want AI goalies to be randomized for when they'll allow high % shots to go in. When you randomize these things it doesn't take long for them to not feel so random. I don't want you to have an AI goalie standing on his head while I've got one allowing trash because it feels more "random" (its 0s and 1s, it's NOT random). It's far better to have those be goals if you play bad defense.

    The only issue with beta was that checks from behind at a player skating full speed were too effective... that's the only issue. So they fixed it by making ALL hits from behind ineffective. Shooting a midge with a cannon. Yes, I am using a hyperbole again.

    As for goalies, I never said I want AI goalies to be randomized, that's your own invention. You seem to misunderstand what we are saying, I can't tell if it's deliberate or not?

    I said they should fix the AI goalies that they dont' let in short-side BUG wristers - which is actually how it seemed to work in the beta. Again, they changed that, so ALL short side bug wristers to top corner go in. Fix that, that is all. It wouldn't hurt to make AI goalies so that they learned to save shots during the game, if players just keep hammering the same spot? But that would be far too advanced I guess?

  • jiajji
    333 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    "Shooting a mig with a cannon" is a metaphor, saying "you can't hit at all" is hyperbole, saying "you should be able to knock the puck loose on a poorly aimed hit at low speed from behind" is wrong.

    If you don't want goals randomized how would you suggest the logic determines which attempts from the DOT go in?
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1322 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Sorry, but I am not interested in bickering with you.

    I've said what I think, you can twist it any way you like. That doesnt make you right.

    [Edited to remove call out]
    Post edited by EA_Roger on
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    Sorry, but I am not interested in bickering with you (especially now that I realised who you are).

    I've said what I think, you can twist it any way you like. That doesnt make you right.

    So anyone who asks you to add clarity to your vision of video game hockey is bickering? That's fine, but don't pretend you know me
  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »

    The hit from behind at beta was trash, it absolutely should have been elimintated and players punished for attempting off center hits at low speed. Definately.

    As to your other points it seems like you want AI goalies to be randomized for when they'll allow high % shots to go in. When you randomize these things it doesn't take long for them to not feel so random. I don't want you to have an AI goalie standing on his head while I've got one allowing trash because it feels more "random" (its 0s and 1s, it's NOT random). It's far better to have those be goals if you play bad defense.

    The only issue with beta was that checks from behind at a player skating full speed were too effective... that's the only issue. So they fixed it by making ALL hits from behind ineffective. Shooting a midge with a cannon. Yes, I am using a hyperbole again.

    As for goalies, I never said I want AI goalies to be randomized, that's your own invention. You seem to misunderstand what we are saying, I can't tell if it's deliberate or not?

    I said they should fix the AI goalies that they dont' let in short-side BUG wristers - which is actually how it seemed to work in the beta. Again, they changed that, so ALL short side bug wristers to top corner go in. Fix that, that is all. It wouldn't hurt to make AI goalies so that they learned to save shots during the game, if players just keep hammering the same spot? But that would be far too advanced I guess?

    You forgot to add that the puck would stop and you could stick lift through a guy. Sorry the AI could.

  • jiajji wrote: »
    jiajji wrote: »
    If you stop people from getting to those spots they'll either get creative or lose, as you face better competition people will able to score from all over the ice. People cant expect the developers to bail them out of bad defense.

    I see tips and cycling all the time, the better teams ALL cycle the puck.

    I agree with you, but Tuner 1.03 nerfed all the defensive tools. Stick lifting is nearly impossible, hitting is ineffective, the DSS is useless, and poking is lackluster at best (and if you're at all delayed on the connection, it's useless too).

    I don't need devs to bail out my bad defense, I want my tools back that allowed me to play defense. I'm fine with high danger areas being high scoring areas, but it's nearly impossible to keep people out of those areas after 1.03.

    Those tools are ALL there. How are we supposed to discuss this with that amount of hyperbole in your post?

    Hitting is 30% as effective as in 1.00
    Stick Lift is 5% as effective as in 1.00
    DSS is 100% as effective as in 1.00 - and it still sucks
    Poke is 75% as effective as in 1.00.

    Better?

    Just disagree with the DSS! it works amazing if you use it properly in the dzone. Use it like you would in real hockey sweeping and straight pokes. Placing it in lanes. I don’t know if they’ve been tuning it on their side Recently but seems better this last week in clubs. Way more plays with no penalties could be my positioning too, not entirely sure.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    How refreshing and mind blowing would it be if EA were even alittle bit like EPIC Games and took one out of their book. This is a tweet from them about an unbalanced item and their response to their community after fixing the issue.



    They actually listened to their community and basically did a roll back and removed the item, this is how you treat your community and fix problems/issues.

    Time to own up to your mistakes and change the game back to what we actually liked and not leave us with this hot pile of tuned garbage for the next 9 months.

    I don't play the game so don't know enough of the details but I think it is great that they listened to the community and made the change. The irony in our case is that players want us to roll back to the game that we put out before any wider community feedback because the results of the tuning we did in response to community feedback for improvements to balance actually hurt the game in those players perspective.

    We are looking at it and would release tuner notes again if we put up a change.

    This is what kills me about you guys...you address only posts about the tuner issues, and you leave the entire EASHL situation alone and ignore it. Yeah, take a look at the communication Epic has. You folks could learn something there.
  • NickKefz
    67 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    That's the definition of an NHL 19 goal. Far too many games decided by something like that.

    LG Playoff Game that ended like that in OT. This is the meta that the devs have created (shooting turd shots to get rewarded with something like that or a juicy rebound). The funny thing is both defenders and the center are there to defend it but the game just rewards the other team with a stupid bounce because of the badly coded puck pickups and incidental contact that should have completely ignored the defenders stick there to grab the puck and allowed the goalie to make a save instead of the puck going through his "invisible pads". Fun game we have here when the meta is practically undefendable because of how bad the game is made and tuned. You can see the options the puck carrier has behind him but he decides to turd it on net because he knows thats the most effective option he has 9 times out of 10 even if the teammate crashing the net has no chance of getting there for a rebound.
  • NHLDev
    1677 posts EA NHL Developer
    Moxrox84 wrote: »

    This is what kills me about you guys...you address only posts about the tuner issues, and you leave the entire EASHL situation alone and ignore it. Yeah, take a look at the communication Epic has. You folks could learn something there.

    I am the gameplay producer so I focus on core gameplay. Our online producer had topics where he was discussing mode issues and connection/matchmaking issues, etc.
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