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NHL 20 CHEL NOTES - HUT Deep dive


Andrew Marks HUT Producer and Nicholas Shewchuk Live Content Producer discuss HUT in NHL 20.
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Dynamic difficulty is ruining versus play

Replies

  • I am sorry but I do not believe for one second that you are getting fat man lag playing offline challenges.

    Well, I do.

    I have to wonder why you turned on Netflix on your laptop and on your Ipad while playing a game?
    Anyway, lag is not to be confused by Fatman lag/mud, it is a totally different experience.
  • I play hut, average player..I've been as high as DIV 4. A good friend of mine lives 5 minutes away, same ISP, we play HUT his team destroys mine, can't touch him...his team picks off every pass yet he can pass through 3 guys tape to tape...sitting beside me on the couch, I beat him 9 out of 10 times easily. Yet with my higher rated team in HUT he fills me in. There is no argument against DDA/Tilt whatever you want to call it that can explain this. Maybe an amazing player can overcome whatever is going on, i'd just like to know what it is so I can adjust.
  • jake19ny
    555 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Sorry EA but DDA exists and it’s disgustingky obvious it’s in this game. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but since I improved the make up of my team the DDA becomes so obvious. Just played a game against a guy who’s best player was an 84. Most of his team was in the 80-82 range. They were light years faster than my team, had amazing puck control, pin point passing, and could knock my much higher rated players off the puck. Meanwhile my team couldn’t pass, shoot, I had input delay, and they skated and turned like they were dragging a ball and chain. His AI was amazing and mine wandering idiots. Of course his game winning goal came on a 2 on 2 when my idiot AI defender collapsed to my human controlled player, skating into me leaving his man wide open and me not able to defend the pass....easy one timer goal. This is not skill gap related and there is no subjectivity to it. Weaker teams are given advantages period and stronger teams are handicapped. End of story......

    Thank God I don’t buy packs but selling packs under the premise that one is supposed to I prove their team when ratings are going to mean nothing is flat out greasy
  • Sinbin
    1284 posts Member
    headup81 wrote: »
    Sinbin I'm curious as to what is your record typically?

    I win more than I lose. Not heavily. I'm definitely not a top 500 player. I play for fun and don't have a win at all costs mentality so I don't exploit the game.
  • KidShowtime1867
    949 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Sorry EA but DDA exists and it’s disgustingky obvious it’s in this game. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but since I improved the make up of my team the DDA becomes so obvious. Just played a game against a guy who’s best player was an 84. Most of his team was in the 80-82 range. They were light years faster than my team, had amazing puck control, pin point passing, and could knock my much higher rated players off the puck. Meanwhile my team couldn’t pass, shoot, I had input delay, and they skated and turned like they were dragging a ball and chain. His AI was amazing and mine wandering idiots. Of course his game winning goal came on a 2 on 2 when my idiot AI defender collapsed to my human controlled player, skating into me leaving his man wide open and me not able to defend the pass....easy one timer goal. This is not skill gap related and there is no subjectivity to it. Weaker teams are given advantages period and stronger teams are handicapped. End of story......

    Thank God I don’t buy packs but selling packs under the premise that one is supposed to I prove their team when ratings are going to mean nothing is flat out greasy

    So, he was better than you at the game? There's no DDA - and his team apparently didn't have as many high rated players as your team. So.. that's the only logical explanation.

    Do you happen to have a video of this game, or the game winning goal?
  • jake19ny
    555 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Sorry EA but DDA exists and it’s disgustingky obvious it’s in this game. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt but since I improved the make up of my team the DDA becomes so obvious. Just played a game against a guy who’s best player was an 84. Most of his team was in the 80-82 range. They were light years faster than my team, had amazing puck control, pin point passing, and could knock my much higher rated players off the puck. Meanwhile my team couldn’t pass, shoot, I had input delay, and they skated and turned like they were dragging a ball and chain. His AI was amazing and mine wandering idiots. Of course his game winning goal came on a 2 on 2 when my idiot AI defender collapsed to my human controlled player, skating into me leaving his man wide open and me not able to defend the pass....easy one timer goal. This is not skill gap related and there is no subjectivity to it. Weaker teams are given advantages period and stronger teams are handicapped. End of story......

    Thank God I don’t buy packs but selling packs under the premise that one is supposed to I prove their team when ratings are going to mean nothing is flat out greasy

    So, he was better than you at the game? There's no DDA - and his team apparently didn't have as many high rated players as your team. So.. that's the only logical explanation.

    Do you happen to have a video of this game, or the game winning goal?

    How does skill play into how the AI plays? I will never understand that argument. Skill does not make slower rated players skate much faster....skill does not make ones AI goalie play great and the other let in 4 goals on 7 shots.....skill does not make your AI play exceptional or play awful. I do not have video of the game but anyone who plays this game in HUT knows that the AI in some games collapses out of position, runs into you, and abandons opponents in front of the net. Sure I’ve been beaten by guys better than me and I’ve been beaten by guys worse than me. I’ve won games I shouldn’t have won and I’ve destroyed guys who were bad....then their are games where this crap happens and the outcome of the game is heavily influenced, not pre determined, by what transpired in the game out of user control which has absolutely nothing to do with anyone being better or playing better.

    .......and the first person who responds that’s just hockey and those things happeni in real hockey is acknowledging that random things occur out of user control that influence the game....there is no argument against it if you say this.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    headup81 wrote: »
    Sinbin I'm curious as to what is your record typically?

    I win more than I lose. Not heavily. I'm definitely not a top 500 player. I play for fun and don't have a win at all costs mentality so I don't exploit the game.

    As I suspected. So in your opinion does someone who is just over a 500 have a valid opinion on DDA? So maybe just maybe you’re not seeing DDA because it is there for players like you in the first place. I’m not trying to be rude but from this point forward your opinions on DDA are invalid to me.
  • Above1988 wrote: »


    What is this invisible force shield that makes players unhittable as they just edge past you! Why cant I use my body to separate a player from the puck! How are people STILL able to puck rag for an entire game!

    All the "top" players do, is score quick, cheap goals, win every faceoff and rag....and rag ....and rag....and pass back to their zone.....and rag, all while you're chasing them around completely powerless to just knock the puck loose from someone without getting a penalty. Every year, the game caters to these players and to me it's worse than ip booting.

    Its almost 2019 and EA just keeps going backwards and clings on to these broken game mechanics because I assume it's more cost effective than making something new.

    I realize this thread is old, but its worth noting that if the game had a build in fatigue engine this would curtail the "ragging" as the player should slow down making them more vulnerable to getting the puck knocked off their stick.

  • Dixonyu wrote: »
    Just a comment on the AI defense being over powered .... And hopefully ea listens here ... The first thing that must be done to AI is give them human like reaction timing ... Them being able to react as fast as we can hit a button is absurd and the main reason why people say the AI is so OP... The AI can spam stick lift without the stick touching the ice they can spam so fast ( I have video ) , this needs to change first , then re evaluate the AI ...

    Human reaction needs to be build in to the game. It is utterly absurd how quick the AI's react to what you do.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Why are people talking about this "dynamic difficulty" as if it is confirmed to be in the game?

    All of this is nothing more than supposition. It bears no weight.

    Well it’s a bit more than that. Nobody made up the term “Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment” it comes directly from EA. You are right that their is no definitive proof that it is in the NHL series but my eyes, experience, and the masses of people experiencing the same thing are enough to convince me. The fact that EA only vaguely addresses these accusations rather than give a definitive explanation to the 5 or 6 specific things so many people experience only furthers the belief. While I understand EA cannot address each and every complaint, question, or inquiry you would think a topic that dominates the forums annually, breeds animosity amongst forum members, sees posts deleted, and threads closed would warrant a few simple answers to put the debate to rest. Until then this topic will never die in fact it seems to be growing.

    EA has said numerous times here and in other social media saying that it doesn't exist in NHL. They have said this for years, but people being who they are, especially with a video game, have little accountability for their own actions. They just don't believe that they aren't as good as they think they are. Post some video. Let people see how you play. It's very easy to just blame the game when you lose, but without any actual evidence to back it up, it's pure speculation. Again, it's been said numerous times over the years by EA themselves. They have also said it for FIFA, which is another game that gets accused of having this in it. It's a dead horse. Stop beating the poor guy. Put more effort in to getting better and you'll stop believing the game is forcing you to win just to keep you interested in playing.

    How do I put more effort in outskating a rare gold player with a 98 legend skater? Please do tell us? I'm more then willing to listen and learn.
  • DDA ruins sales for this game. That is really the bottom line.
  • mikeyflex wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Why are people talking about this "dynamic difficulty" as if it is confirmed to be in the game?

    All of this is nothing more than supposition. It bears no weight.

    Well it’s a bit more than that. Nobody made up the term “Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment” it comes directly from EA. You are right that their is no definitive proof that it is in the NHL series but my eyes, experience, and the masses of people experiencing the same thing are enough to convince me. The fact that EA only vaguely addresses these accusations rather than give a definitive explanation to the 5 or 6 specific things so many people experience only furthers the belief. While I understand EA cannot address each and every complaint, question, or inquiry you would think a topic that dominates the forums annually, breeds animosity amongst forum members, sees posts deleted, and threads closed would warrant a few simple answers to put the debate to rest. Until then this topic will never die in fact it seems to be growing.

    EA has said numerous times here and in other social media saying that it doesn't exist in NHL. They have said this for years, but people being who they are, especially with a video game, have little accountability for their own actions. They just don't believe that they aren't as good as they think they are. Post some video. Let people see how you play. It's very easy to just blame the game when you lose, but without any actual evidence to back it up, it's pure speculation. Again, it's been said numerous times over the years by EA themselves. They have also said it for FIFA, which is another game that gets accused of having this in it. It's a dead horse. Stop beating the poor guy. Put more effort in to getting better and you'll stop believing the game is forcing you to win just to keep you interested in playing.

    How do I put more effort in outskating a rare gold player with a 98 legend skater? Please do tell us? I'm more then willing to listen and learn.

    You play this long enough it's easy to spot which team has the advantage. EA defenders will keep telling you it doesn't exist but they can't logically explain why the older sports games had momentum bars or why EA has patents for it.

  • There is without any doubt both DDA & Momentum build into the game. If you cannot see it, you haven´t played enough or are an EA employee.
  • Note the complaints about dynamic difficulty are the same with fifa ( unsure about nba or madden but im 99% certain those games are using the same systems.

    The tuner change is nice, but unless EA does something to the system evening out game play between skilled and less skilled players, i wont ever be purchasing another ea sports title again.

    My apologies to Rammer and the team, i know you all cant speak about certain things due to NDA. I think you have built a great game, but the effort has been ruined by a system you are mandated to hook into.

    A letter to EA: esports should be what EA is striving for. I want to play people online, but the way it is setup i feel it is too frustrating to continue ( i stopped playing nhl 18 around april last year when i felt dda had kicked in too strong ) and nhl19 was at the same level on the production servers as 18 after launch.

    I think that is why people liked the beta btw. DDA wasn't seen in the beta.
  • headup81 wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    headup81 wrote: »
    Sinbin I'm curious as to what is your record typically?

    I win more than I lose. Not heavily. I'm definitely not a top 500 player. I play for fun and don't have a win at all costs mentality so I don't exploit the game.

    As I suspected. So in your opinion does someone who is just over a 500 have a valid opinion on DDA? So maybe just maybe you’re not seeing DDA because it is there for players like you in the first place. I’m not trying to be rude but from this point forward your opinions on DDA are invalid to me.

    Everyone has a valid opinion on DDA. It's an opinion. Not a fact. If you think that only top players get there because the game hands them their wins and losses without skill being involved, that's your opinion. I'm accountable for my own play. I know why I win and lose. It's not because the computer scripts the outcome for me. It's my opinion that people who blame DDA just aren't as good as they think they are. They need to have something to push the blame on to instead of look at where they could improve. Part of getting good at this game is recognizing your faults and correcting them. If you think you're the best and can't improve, you're not. Why do you think professional players, musicians, artisans, etc, keep practicing? To get better. No matter how good they are. There is no DDA, no scripting, no ice tilt. I can watch how a game plays out and see why the outcome happened the way it did.
  • ExSnake01
    444 posts Member
    edited January 1
    Sinbin wrote: »
    headup81 wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    headup81 wrote: »
    Sinbin I'm curious as to what is your record typically?

    I win more than I lose. Not heavily. I'm definitely not a top 500 player. I play for fun and don't have a win at all costs mentality so I don't exploit the game.

    As I suspected. So in your opinion does someone who is just over a 500 have a valid opinion on DDA? So maybe just maybe you’re not seeing DDA because it is there for players like you in the first place. I’m not trying to be rude but from this point forward your opinions on DDA are invalid to me.

    Everyone has a valid opinion on DDA. It's an opinion. Not a fact. If you think that only top players get there because the game hands them their wins and losses without skill being involved, that's your opinion. I'm accountable for my own play. I know why I win and lose. It's not because the computer scripts the outcome for me. It's my opinion that people who blame DDA just aren't as good as they think they are. They need to have something to push the blame on to instead of look at where they could improve. Part of getting good at this game is recognizing your faults and correcting them. If you think you're the best and can't improve, you're not. Why do you think professional players, musicians, artisans, etc, keep practicing? To get better. No matter how good they are. There is no DDA, no scripting, no ice tilt. I can watch how a game plays out and see why the outcome happened the way it did.

    The fact is, EA's patents perfectly illustrates how it works. EA has invested resources and time into it. It's no longer a fairy tale. If you want tell people it's not in the game, the burden is on you to explain why they are investing into this.

    When EA tells me they built NHL from ground-up for next-gen, I do not believe them. When they tell me DDA isn't in their game, I also do not believe them.

  • Sinbin wrote: »
    headup81 wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    headup81 wrote: »
    Sinbin I'm curious as to what is your record typically?

    I win more than I lose. Not heavily. I'm definitely not a top 500 player. I play for fun and don't have a win at all costs mentality so I don't exploit the game.

    As I suspected. So in your opinion does someone who is just over a 500 have a valid opinion on DDA? So maybe just maybe you’re not seeing DDA because it is there for players like you in the first place. I’m not trying to be rude but from this point forward your opinions on DDA are invalid to me.

    Everyone has a valid opinion on DDA. It's an opinion. Not a fact. If you think that only top players get there because the game hands them their wins and losses without skill being involved, that's your opinion. I'm accountable for my own play. I know why I win and lose. It's not because the computer scripts the outcome for me. It's my opinion that people who blame DDA just aren't as good as they think they are. They need to have something to push the blame on to instead of look at where they could improve. Part of getting good at this game is recognizing your faults and correcting them. If you think you're the best and can't improve, you're not. Why do you think professional players, musicians, artisans, etc, keep practicing? To get better. No matter how good they are. There is no DDA, no scripting, no ice tilt. I can watch how a game plays out and see why the outcome happened the way it did.

    Nobody from ea has come out and said DDA doesnt exist. Have you noticed?? Id think you would get tired of trying to argue its not there considering how long this thread has been going. I also think you are in the minority on this.
  • I read through this threat and it is spot on the issues I'm having. For too long were told that it's "sour grapes" were making excuses, play "better defense." It's absurd, I play games where my passing goes where I direct it to and than there are games where my passes don't and magically there is a high probability they fall on the stick of my opponent. I've seen way too much of this to shake it off as pure coincidence.

    The fact is, it's getting worse. The game has digressed, I've never seen such a thing in any franchise. Every year the gaming mags laud these games, the gamechangers tell us this is the year, the best by far. And yet here we are. Another year, another sub-par product that never gets fixed. They truly need fresh eyes, and fresh team to look at this. If not, another software developer is needed to produce a game.
  • Im all for a challenge but id like ea to consider not messing with the players controls. You can give the opponent an artficial boost in other ways, but slugish reaponse on your players is entirely unacceptable for a competitive multiplayer game
  • In online vs games, there should never be any boost for any team. The only thing that should matter is skill, roster and luck. If you have the skill and roster to be in Div 1 you should constantly run over opponents from lower divisions with bad teams. Sure, now and then you should have a hard time winning because of bad luck, bad concentration or your opponent is playing great by limiting your chances to a minimum and have one or two fluke goals. This kind of scenario is not random, it is programmed to happen as of now. It´s absurd to even believe it is normal that such games can happen twice in a row and the reality is that i can happen 15 games in a row.

    I´m so sad that EA has destroyed this game. I have lost interest and this is the only game i have regularly played for the last 20+ years. I have bought a copy every single year. When they removed it from PC i bought an Xbox just to be able to play NHL. I haven't been playing for the last weeks but played some games yesterday and won a game 4-1 and was pissed after because i was battling both the opponent and the game. Switched to VS and gone was the absurd ai behaviour, not sure if it will be back if i get ranked high enough though.
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