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NHL 20 Content Update October 1st


Check out our latest content update, bug fixes & key areas on which we need your feedback here.

An Update on Gameplay Feedback + Action Plan

Replies

  • jiajji wrote: »
    I cant wait for the same people to abuse the same people in the same way once the beta drops. It'll be interesting to hear what excuses people come up with.

    Say whaaaaat?

    He's just mad because he likes to be a figure skater and is outraged EA will make it harder on his playstyle.
  • When someone is doing the ballerina pivot in the corner/faceoff circle until they can slip far enough towards the slot for that patented "cheese" shortside wrister. Is that a skilled player? Currently, if the offensive player and the defensive player are same size, hitting/bumping heavily favors the offenceman. Even if the defender plays him perfectly and keeps him to the boards for a whole 30 seconds, while he pivots back and forth waiting. More often than not, because of the mechanics of movement in this game, the player making the first action (offenceman trying to pivot) will eventually be able to slip the defender. Sometimes upto 3 bumps, and not able to use stickwork because he is curling the puck all the while.

    There seems to be a divide among the playerbase if this is a skilled player or not. Because the Beta was more about hockey plays, and quick puck movement. Most of the players I knew last year that were those ballerina forwards that played how I described in the first paragraph, were not happy with the Beta, and claimed they took all the skill out of the game.

    So my question to everyone is, is that a skilled player? If that type of offence is not a skilled individual play, what is? And do you guys want there to be a place for "skilled" players in the game, or is it better off with more teamwork and less independent plays like the example I gave?
  • iAmJULES2 wrote: »
    When someone is doing the ballerina pivot in the corner/faceoff circle until they can slip far enough towards the slot for that patented "cheese" shortside wrister. Is that a skilled player? Currently, if the offensive player and the defensive player are same size, hitting/bumping heavily favors the offenceman. Even if the defender plays him perfectly and keeps him to the boards for a whole 30 seconds, while he pivots back and forth waiting. More often than not, because of the mechanics of movement in this game, the player making the first action (offenceman trying to pivot) will eventually be able to slip the defender. Sometimes upto 3 bumps, and not able to use stickwork because he is curling the puck all the while.

    There seems to be a divide among the playerbase if this is a skilled player or not. Because the Beta was more about hockey plays, and quick puck movement. Most of the players I knew last year that were those ballerina forwards that played how I described in the first paragraph, were not happy with the Beta, and claimed they took all the skill out of the game.

    So my question to everyone is, is that a skilled player? If that type of offence is not a skilled individual play, what is? And do you guys want there to be a place for "skilled" players in the game, or is it better off with more teamwork and less independent plays like the example I gave?

    They are both skill gaps. The question is: in a hockey game, do we want the skill gap to be who can play better hockey or do we want it to be who can exploit the game better?

    The overwhelming majority of us want the skill gap in a hockey game to be hockey skill, not exploitation skill.
  • WainGretSki
    2843 posts Member
    edited January 4
    iAmJULES2 wrote: »
    When someone is doing the ballerina pivot in the corner/faceoff circle until they can slip far enough towards the slot for that patented "cheese" shortside wrister. Is that a skilled player? Currently, if the offensive player and the defensive player are same size, hitting/bumping heavily favors the offenceman. Even if the defender plays him perfectly and keeps him to the boards for a whole 30 seconds, while he pivots back and forth waiting. More often than not, because of the mechanics of movement in this game, the player making the first action (offenceman trying to pivot) will eventually be able to slip the defender. Sometimes upto 3 bumps, and not able to use stickwork because he is curling the puck all the while.

    There seems to be a divide among the playerbase if this is a skilled player or not. Because the Beta was more about hockey plays, and quick puck movement. Most of the players I knew last year that were those ballerina forwards that played how I described in the first paragraph, were not happy with the Beta, and claimed they took all the skill out of the game.

    So my question to everyone is, is that a skilled player? If that type of offence is not a skilled individual play, what is? And do you guys want there to be a place for "skilled" players in the game, or is it better off with more teamwork and less independent plays like the example I gave?

    I call it being skilled at abusing a game's weakness. Playing keep-away to abuse the lackluster collision detection can be viewed as a skill I guess as not every single person pulls this off with the same success rate. In any case, I see it as abusing a mechanic within the game. If a player was that good with the puck, he would find other ways to demonstrate his "skill" imo. Using (abusing) the same tactics from 5 years ago is not a demonstration of skill.

    Every single player tries this tactic. From the most skilled to the ones who can barely break out of their zone. It is incredibly boring and predictable. Everybody looks like a bunch of twitches spazzing out with their sticks behind them.
  • If people want to play figure skating rag the puck hockey with no passing than play ones, it's the perfect mode for you. Hockey is a team sport, not individual. I'm looking forward to the beta tuner so we can crush the players who have poor hockey IQ and refuse to pass.
  • There are people who are better at the corner circles than others, and by that, there is a skill gap on it.

    But thats not the skill that should be targeted in a 6s game. Thats a drop in hero thats had years and years of EA telling him thats good hockey, leading the game turnovers and getting first star. In the beta, we were forced to move the puck earlier. Space should be created with passing, not skating circles. As it is now, there's less risk in skating than passing.

    IMO 6s skill should be how well you work without the puck to set yourself up for owning the puck for 1-2 seconds. How well teammates support each other to provide the easy exit pass. Timing of shots and traffic in front.

    Possessing the puck with a defender on you should be stressful, where currently its the objective.. All players are equal, and if you think you're a Kucherov with the puck you have to accept that everyone on the opposition is a Hedman. You aren't skating a circle and getting past him.
    EASHL player
  • BlahQGhozT wrote: »





    Here's an example of a bad hit attempt and recovery. I'm RD. Initially I was going to step up on their lw but the angle was wrong so I had to adjust. He manages to just barely get past and get a few steps on me.

    1) My momentum from trying to correct my angle took me along with the lw, so I wouldn't expect my def to nudge or push off (and he doesn't).

    2) Instead of panicking and chasing him down directly (poke checking all the way for ex.), I took a more angled chase towards the net taking away any sort of cut to the net he might do.

    3) Letting him have the outside, I made sure my angle gave me a safe distance to complete my recovery and allow my teammates to backcheck correctly and get into position.

    Sometimes you just have to work with what you have and adjust. I personally don't care for the tuner rollback. I have no fond memories of any tuner really. I play the same way regardless.

    Except those of us who chose to buy the game after liking the beta mechanics deserve the game we bought. We bought a product that existed, it was dramatically altered, and we are the ones who are supposed to adjust?

    The people who bought the game then complained about it being what was represented should adjust.

    This argument is crazy to me. If you went to the store and bought a refrigerator and they delivered a freezer, would you be happy when they told you to just adjust? I think not.

    There are many of us who bought the game who also read on the beta itself that it was a 'work in progress', meaning change was inevitable. The beta was only a taste of the game. Just because you have a prefixed notion that it was perfect or close to it doesn't mean others do. Clearly EA didn't and there's no way to adhere to everyone's tastes and whims.

    The only reason EA is even doing this rollback for a limited time is to appease those crying bloody murder on the forums here and elsewhere. Negative feedback always trumps positive or happy feedback. I'm no fan of EA, but tuner changes are nothing new. Are there things that can be improved on? Of course. Is it possible to take the best aspects of the tuners and consolidate them? I'd sure hope so. They've had long enough to consider what those would be.

    Bottomline is even if EA rolled back to 1.00 and kept it the rest of the year there would be people to pop up on these and other forums voicing their distaste for it as well, and no, let's not just blanket label these people as puck raggers, figure skaters or exploiters and garbage like that because it is just juvenile. It's just as easy to label ppl who have a woody for 1.00 as whiners or exploiters for poor play and other such garbage so save the name calling please. It really serves no purpose and lessens the argument.

    -What I'd like to have is the skating from 1.00 back (if I had to choose something).
    -Keep pokes as they are currently. They work fine with a proper gap and if you use targeting before poking highly effective.
    -Nudges should be more effective but based on physics, not if you're just able to breathe on a guy. 1.00 sorta had this but not quite. It needed to be toned down a tad but not to the state it is in now.
    -Net battles should be a bit easier to initiate.
    -Hits should be slightly more effective.
    -It would be nice to have passes (especially long ones) be slightly less accurate from human and AI as well. It's still too tape to tape imo.
    -Kneeling pass block (L1 / LB) shouldn't cause trips imo.
    -Puck sliding should be a bit less as well. Right now it feels like gravity doesn't exist too much.
    -Curl n drag should also be revised a bit to have the same puck action as a slap shot with your stick up for too long, you lose the puck if done too long.

    PS the fridge analogy doesn't fit properly at all. The fridge is a finished product not subject to further changes. If I was sent a freezer instead I'd return it as it wasn't the finished product I paid for.

    The beta wasn't a finished product, that's why they call it a beta. Call it a floor sample, an incomplete set, aka not done. You didn't pay for it. If you liked it, great. If the beta indicated (or devs indicated) that the gameplay was set and all that was left to add were graphical touchups then you'd have an argument to make as far as gameplay is concerned. With a game like this (or any other for that matter) adjustments are bound to be and need to be made. EA has to at least try to find a medium to cater to all who play it. I don't envy their position.
    BlahQz - Owner of WikkiD VI / D6 NatioN - Our EASHL games are available here on YouTube and Twitch!
  • 1.0 was the finished product and people bought the game because of it during early access. 1.0 v 1.03 play drastically different and if I was one who didn't pre order and bought the game because of early access i'd feel ripped off so bad. It's already bad enough even if you did pre-order, no excuses. EA screwed this one up, now lets hope they fix it. None of us wanted NHL 18 with updated skating mechanics.
  • WainGretSki
    2843 posts Member
    edited January 4
    BlahQGhozT wrote: »
    BlahQGhozT wrote: »





    Here's an example of a bad hit attempt and recovery. I'm RD. Initially I was going to step up on their lw but the angle was wrong so I had to adjust. He manages to just barely get past and get a few steps on me.

    1) My momentum from trying to correct my angle took me along with the lw, so I wouldn't expect my def to nudge or push off (and he doesn't).

    2) Instead of panicking and chasing him down directly (poke checking all the way for ex.), I took a more angled chase towards the net taking away any sort of cut to the net he might do.

    3) Letting him have the outside, I made sure my angle gave me a safe distance to complete my recovery and allow my teammates to backcheck correctly and get into position.

    Sometimes you just have to work with what you have and adjust. I personally don't care for the tuner rollback. I have no fond memories of any tuner really. I play the same way regardless.

    Except those of us who chose to buy the game after liking the beta mechanics deserve the game we bought. We bought a product that existed, it was dramatically altered, and we are the ones who are supposed to adjust?

    The people who bought the game then complained about it being what was represented should adjust.

    This argument is crazy to me. If you went to the store and bought a refrigerator and they delivered a freezer, would you be happy when they told you to just adjust? I think not.

    There are many of us who bought the game who also read on the beta itself that it was a 'work in progress', meaning change was inevitable. The beta was only a taste of the game. Just because you have a prefixed notion that it was perfect or close to it doesn't mean others do. Clearly EA didn't and there's no way to adhere to everyone's tastes and whims.

    The only reason EA is even doing this rollback for a limited time is to appease those crying bloody murder on the forums here and elsewhere. Negative feedback always trumps positive or happy feedback. I'm no fan of EA, but tuner changes are nothing new. Are there things that can be improved on? Of course. Is it possible to take the best aspects of the tuners and consolidate them? I'd sure hope so. They've had long enough to consider what those would be.

    Bottomline is even if EA rolled back to 1.00 and kept it the rest of the year there would be people to pop up on these and other forums voicing their distaste for it as well, and no, let's not just blanket label these people as puck raggers, figure skaters or exploiters and garbage like that because it is just juvenile. It's just as easy to label ppl who have a woody for 1.00 as whiners or exploiters for poor play and other such garbage so save the name calling please. It really serves no purpose and lessens the argument.

    -What I'd like to have is the skating from 1.00 back (if I had to choose something).
    -Keep pokes as they are currently. They work fine with a proper gap and if you use targeting before poking highly effective.
    -Nudges should be more effective but based on physics, not if you're just able to breathe on a guy. 1.00 sorta had this but not quite. It needed to be toned down a tad but not to the state it is in now.
    -Net battles should be a bit easier to initiate.
    -Hits should be slightly more effective.
    -It would be nice to have passes (especially long ones) be slightly less accurate from human and AI as well. It's still too tape to tape imo.
    -Kneeling pass block (L1 / LB) shouldn't cause trips imo.
    -Puck sliding should be a bit less as well. Right now it feels like gravity doesn't exist too much.
    -Curl n drag should also be revised a bit to have the same puck action as a slap shot with your stick up for too long, you lose the puck if done too long.

    PS the fridge analogy doesn't fit properly at all. The fridge is a finished product not subject to further changes. If I was sent a freezer instead I'd return it as it wasn't the finished product I paid for.

    The beta wasn't a finished product, that's why they call it a beta. Call it a floor sample, an incomplete set, aka not done. You didn't pay for it. If you liked it, great. If the beta indicated (or devs indicated) that the gameplay was set and all that was left to add were graphical touchups then you'd have an argument to make as far as gameplay is concerned. With a game like this (or any other for that matter) adjustments are bound to be and need to be made. EA has to at least try to find a medium to cater to all who play it. I don't envy their position.

    Ben even stated that the beta was more in line with his vision of the game vs what we currently have.

    How would you feel if you played a COD beta, liked it, then found out 3 tuners later that the game now plays like Battlefield 3? Would you tell yourself" bah, it was only a taste and a work in progress". I highly doubt it.

    Now time for the fun fact of the day:

    When the release came out, these forums were packed with comments that the game was awesome and that EA did a good job. Now? Funny thing, I don't recall anyone praising this game the last 6 weeks. In fact, another fun fact (consider it a bonus one) enough people complained about it that they are reverting to the beta. If the game was so good and had so much positive feedback in its present state, would they not leave it as is? Hmm? Even forum presence has significantly died off the last few weeks. Yea......

    As for your fridge analogy, yes you are correct. Except the released version of 19 was extremely similar to the beta, therefore a finished product, as you say.

    All that said, I agree with how you would tune the game. It would be a very happy medium imo from the beta to now. EA seems they can't do it for whatever reason they chose.
  • jiajji wrote: »
    I cant wait for the same people to abuse the same people in the same way once the beta drops. It'll be interesting to hear what excuses people come up with.

    Say whaaaaat?

    Could be wrong but I think he meant..
    If the hockey players own the streamers and ‘gamers,’ like a rented mule...the tears will flow. ..thought I’ve smelled a little blood in the water in a few other posts lately.

    All the streamers play hut...and “pull packs” ....let them have the fairy skates.
    Just give us an fun honest 6s tuner! :)

    Couldn’t agree more!

    Turf the fairy skates in ALL modes, I play both eashl and hut and it is equally frustrating in any mode.
  • BlahQGhozT wrote: »
    BlahQGhozT wrote: »





    Here's an example of a bad hit attempt and recovery. I'm RD. Initially I was going to step up on their lw but the angle was wrong so I had to adjust. He manages to just barely get past and get a few steps on me.

    1) My momentum from trying to correct my angle took me along with the lw, so I wouldn't expect my def to nudge or push off (and he doesn't).

    2) Instead of panicking and chasing him down directly (poke checking all the way for ex.), I took a more angled chase towards the net taking away any sort of cut to the net he might do.

    3) Letting him have the outside, I made sure my angle gave me a safe distance to complete my recovery and allow my teammates to backcheck correctly and get into position.

    Sometimes you just have to work with what you have and adjust. I personally don't care for the tuner rollback. I have no fond memories of any tuner really. I play the same way regardless.

    Except those of us who chose to buy the game after liking the beta mechanics deserve the game we bought. We bought a product that existed, it was dramatically altered, and we are the ones who are supposed to adjust?

    The people who bought the game then complained about it being what was represented should adjust.

    This argument is crazy to me. If you went to the store and bought a refrigerator and they delivered a freezer, would you be happy when they told you to just adjust? I think not.

    There are many of us who bought the game who also read on the beta itself that it was a 'work in progress', meaning change was inevitable. The beta was only a taste of the game. Just because you have a prefixed notion that it was perfect or close to it doesn't mean others do. Clearly EA didn't and there's no way to adhere to everyone's tastes and whims.

    The only reason EA is even doing this rollback for a limited time is to appease those crying bloody murder on the forums here and elsewhere. Negative feedback always trumps positive or happy feedback. I'm no fan of EA, but tuner changes are nothing new. Are there things that can be improved on? Of course. Is it possible to take the best aspects of the tuners and consolidate them? I'd sure hope so. They've had long enough to consider what those would be.

    Bottomline is even if EA rolled back to 1.00 and kept it the rest of the year there would be people to pop up on these and other forums voicing their distaste for it as well, and no, let's not just blanket label these people as puck raggers, figure skaters or exploiters and garbage like that because it is just juvenile. It's just as easy to label ppl who have a woody for 1.00 as whiners or exploiters for poor play and other such garbage so save the name calling please. It really serves no purpose and lessens the argument.

    -What I'd like to have is the skating from 1.00 back (if I had to choose something).
    -Keep pokes as they are currently. They work fine with a proper gap and if you use targeting before poking highly effective.
    -Nudges should be more effective but based on physics, not if you're just able to breathe on a guy. 1.00 sorta had this but not quite. It needed to be toned down a tad but not to the state it is in now.
    -Net battles should be a bit easier to initiate.
    -Hits should be slightly more effective.
    -It would be nice to have passes (especially long ones) be slightly less accurate from human and AI as well. It's still too tape to tape imo.
    -Kneeling pass block (L1 / LB) shouldn't cause trips imo.
    -Puck sliding should be a bit less as well. Right now it feels like gravity doesn't exist too much.
    -Curl n drag should also be revised a bit to have the same puck action as a slap shot with your stick up for too long, you lose the puck if done too long.

    PS the fridge analogy doesn't fit properly at all. The fridge is a finished product not subject to further changes. If I was sent a freezer instead I'd return it as it wasn't the finished product I paid for.

    The beta wasn't a finished product, that's why they call it a beta. Call it a floor sample, an incomplete set, aka not done. You didn't pay for it. If you liked it, great. If the beta indicated (or devs indicated) that the gameplay was set and all that was left to add were graphical touchups then you'd have an argument to make as far as gameplay is concerned. With a game like this (or any other for that matter) adjustments are bound to be and need to be made. EA has to at least try to find a medium to cater to all who play it. I don't envy their position.

    This guy already answered your concern:
    jiajji wrote: »
    BlahQGhozT wrote: »


    Here's an example of a bad hit attempt and recovery. I'm RD. Initially I was going to step up on their lw but the angle was wrong so I had to adjust. He manages to just barely get past and get a few steps on me.

    1) My momentum from trying to correct my angle took me along with the lw, so I wouldn't expect my def to nudge or push off (and he doesn't).

    2) Instead of panicking and chasing him down directly (poke checking all the way for ex.), I took a more angled chase towards the net taking away any sort of cut to the net he might do.

    3) Letting him have the outside, I made sure my angle gave me a safe distance to complete my recovery and allow my teammates to backcheck correctly and get into position.

    Sometimes you just have to work with what you have and adjust. I personally don't care for the tuner rollback. I have no fond memories of any tuner really. I play the same way regardless.

    Except those of us who chose to buy the game after liking the beta mechanics deserve the game we bought. We bought a product that existed, it was dramatically altered, and we are the ones who are supposed to adjust?

    The people who bought the game then complained about it being what was represented should adjust.

    This argument is crazy to me. If you went to the store and bought a refrigerator and they delivered a freezer, would you be happy when they told you to just adjust? I think not.

    You need to give up on this silly argument, it was the BETA, by definition it was an unfinished product released to the wild for the purpose gathering data and further tuning. That's what a beta is, if you didn't know it's not EA's problem.

    Read the what's going on thread again and try to pay attention to what the dev says, its explicitly stated that they knew checking was overpowered and they expected to have to tune it down.

    Okay, then let’s say day 1. What’s the excuse then?

    The only silly arguments are those in favor of the same ol puck raggin, hit shruggin, and glitch shootin. You already have that with 18. Just pop that in if that’s what you want. 19 was good because it was different, and resulted in more realistic flow and play overall. That’s why many of us bought it, including after playing on early access. Ain’t nothing silly about that.

  • So many have said good things in response and I just want to add that I bought it because of 1.0.

    Dunno. It’s feeling repetitive because people continue to insist on giving opinions on things they think they remember well at first it was amusing..now I just can’t wait for the rollback..which I plan on taking in with an open mind.

    Ps: tune the game for the hockey players. The “gamers” will always adapt..after all..they have those nimble dexterous little hands which haven’t been broken..a few times..each...they’ll be fine..
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • Skill gap was the highest it’s even been during the 19 beta/1.0. Quick puck movement and the LT skating uses at the right time separated people. Skill now involved split-second decisions, and quick twitch thumb skills to complete beautiful passing plays in 6s.

    Look at Rocket League and their pro circuit. Those guy have absolutely incredible mechanics, but the decision making and passing plays separate the world champions from their very similar competitors.

    When you’re playing on the biggest and brightest stages with the best people your respective game has to offer, individual talen will more than likely not win you a game. The beta promoted the best team-based clubs for the first time in series history. This isn’t even debatable.
  • There are people who are better at the corner circles than others, and by that, there is a skill gap on it.

    But thats not the skill that should be targeted in a 6s game. Thats a drop in hero thats had years and years of EA telling him thats good hockey, leading the game turnovers and getting first star. In the beta, we were forced to move the puck earlier. Space should be created with passing, not skating circles. As it is now, there's less risk in skating than passing.

    IMO 6s skill should be how well you work without the puck to set yourself up for owning the puck for 1-2 seconds. How well teammates support each other to provide the easy exit pass. Timing of shots and traffic in front.

    Possessing the puck with a defender on you should be stressful, where currently its the objective.. All players are equal, and if you think you're a Kucherov with the puck you have to accept that everyone on the opposition is a Hedman. You aren't skating a circle and getting past him.

    I agree but in the world and mindset of EA hockey, the forwards are Kucherov and the defensemen are Deryk Engelland. To me, it makes absolutely no sense that if you play defense, you must always at all times have 100% perfect control (body positioning, skating speed, angles, etc.) and be in a controlled glide to be able to defend, yet all forwards can perform and execute with little to no repro cushions at an uncontrolled high speed. Why as a defenseman must I get a buff (skater slows down) when I poke but forwards can deke and stickhandle maintaining their speed? Why is top speed achieved more efficiently when in possession of the puck and why do you have more agility while in possession of the puck? It completely defies physics.

    All the risk, like you mention is solely placed upon those who play defense. All mistakes made by defenders result in either a penalty or a quality scoring chance by the forward. The only risk by a forward is a turnover and more often than not, they are rewarded with repossession of the puck one way or the other anyways.

    There is absolutely no way you play defense in this game like you would in real life. It's impossible because the tools to do so are lacking either by attributes, coding or physics engines. EA forces you to play hockey how they envision the game instead of them developing a game that resembles how it's actually played.

    Today's hockey is fast paced and tight checking (stick). Big hits are rare and fighting is virtually nonexistent with the crackdown of head injuries. 4th liners need skating ability to secure a roster spot on contending teams and slow grinder/enforcer are being phased out.

    I think EA finally improved the game in one aspect this year, the skating. Then they tuned and adjusted so much they broke it and the only way to get the skating back was to revert to the beta. Before they revert, they can, if they choose, tune the poke checking to what we have now which was better than in the beta.
  • EpiCxOwNeD
    587 posts Member
    edited January 4
    I think goal tending was the biggest negative after the tuners. Goalies then were good. They could stop unscreened shots from far out and sometimes close in. When you scored it actually felt like you scored as in beating the goalie. Now, it’s just the same routine over and over from the past few years. Wrist shot short side, goal. For once we believed that team hockey was going to win games. For a while it was the way to go. It was fun and refreshing as it seemed the series was going in that direction.

    I think goalies should stay like they were in the beta after the limited time beta tuner is gone. I don’t find it rewarding to score since the goalies were touched.
  • Dorothy Hamill is a playa
  • ExSnake01
    453 posts Member
    edited January 5
    What I'm really worried about is the first post of this thread. It doesn't talk anything about the skating. It seems that there's a chance we might get a chunk of the beta gameplay but not 100% of it.
  • NHLDev
    1314 posts NHL Developer
    edited January 5
    Appreciate all the opinions being shared in anticipation of the tuner rollback period.

    There are obviously a few different camps. One set of discussion is around what is realistic and/or balanced gameplay and the other is more around what type of gameplay we want to encourage, regardless of realism.

    A few things to consider
    -- Regardless of tuning, it is always on the defense to get the offense to play more creative.
    - There will always be players out there that are two dimensional and no matter how realistic the game is tuned will always lean towards what they feel are the higher percentage chances for them to score and thus may create a more boring game for you but if you spend your time expecting your opponent to cater to you, rather than enjoying shutting them down easily through their lack of creativity, those games will continue to be less fun for you.
    - If the game were somehow tuned such that it forced variation, even when the defense was allowing good chances, the game would just feel random. Again, it is on the defense to force variation and creativity but it isn't up to the offense to entertain poor defense by switching things up just for the sake of it (As much as that may be the more sportsmanlike thing to do).
    - We want to reward great team play. Overall, it should again be strong defense that forces the need for great team play but as others have mentioned there are ways the game can be tuned to encourage it more. So we understand peoples perspectives on single puck carriers being able to keep the puck and how easier puck loss can encourage more passing.
    - That said, we also don't want to reward poor defense. There are times to commit and there are times to position/angle and/or wait until you can get the offense to commit. You also need to be aware of the player you are using and who your opponent is and what their capabilities are.

    The first version everyone played of the game established some big changes. Obviously we added new skating and physics systems but we also took a big crack at diminishing what the community called 'skillzone defense' in VS and HUT play and aggressively tuned tripping penalties and with the new physics, increased low relative speed hitting success to change the dynamic of the way the game was played.

    The whole point of the Beta, aside from giving everyone a glimpse of the new mechanics and testing our online infrastructures, from the gameplay side, was to see how the new meta played out in the competitive environment relative to what we had heard in previous years.

    We got two pieces of feedback during the Beta. The unanimous one was that tripping penalties were too harsh and the other was that there wasn't enough differentiation in skating -- that although the skating was almost unanimously liked, big players shouldn't have been as agile. We already had a bunch of updates complete for the Day 0 build of the game for the pokecheck/dss mechanics vs tripping logic so we didn't touch that at all. The only things we tuned in the Beta tuner were increasing the effect agility ratings had on skating to differentiate players more (which was tuning we almost opened the Beta with but waited until we got that feedback first to be sure) and updating how stamina regeneration worked in Ones.

    We then launched the game in that same state but also had some of the mechanics updates to pokechecking/dss and tripping that we had already made before any feedback that tightened up the mechanics. We felt those changes would solve the issues where people felt things were inconsistent and not justified and that much more of the negative feedback was what was expected when we were making such a harsh change to the meta of the game, where we wanted to encourage players to use more tools on defense that fit the context. And over time, it has proven to be a good skill gap where players are able to have extremely low penalty minutes and also very low goals against even though some players are still far too aggressive with their sticks and get sent to the box often.

    The next bit of feedback I continued to get hit with was regarding 'skillzone defense' and 'bumps'. I took longer to consider tuning around these two pieces of feedback as we had already made the big change to turn off all ai defense against puck carriers after 4 frames of puck possession and that we wanted to maintain what we had tuned with the new physics for longer to see what was player skill in offense/defense/learning curve vs what were holes in the tuning/mechanics.

    Competitive HUT and VS players continued to show clips regarding skill zone and I gave counter arguments around it not being the defensive players responsibility to chase the offensive player when they aren't a threat themselves to score just to be seen as playing 'active defense'. That if they wanted to drop back and block the pass, especially when the ai wasn't actively taking the puck away, that should be in their full right playing defense.

    I was also sent examples of what players meant by 'bumps'. These were commonly players on breakaways that were losing the puck from slight incidental contact from behind on breakaways, or players that would chase and get beat out of the corner only to throw a check back against their momentum only to get a slight piece of the puck carrier and cause them to stumble and lose possession. There were also some of those over the top cases where a player getting shoved from behind would keep attempting to pick up a puck and not be able to even though they were trying to pick up the puck and skate away in the direction they were being pushed to.

    I held ground on both of those for a bit to stand by our original goals and ensure tuning was needed more than players adapting but started to understand with more examples why it was seen as having a lower skill gap on defense where lower skilled players were getting bailed out from poor play. A higher skill gap where we felt that defensive players had more than enough tools to still shut down players when playing properly still completely aligned with our original goals so we looked at tuning what could isolate those issues -- thus the changes around reducing the time of puck possession before the ai couldn't trigger a defensive action on the puck carrier to 0 frames and tuning low relative speed checks from behind a player.

    The last thing we did in the last patch/tuner was look at what was being called out as the weakest way to score, which were the weak rebound goals. My opinion is that tuning, although it helped some of the goalie positioning to give up less weak rebounds and/or have a better chance at a rebound save, also opened up more chances at short side goals as it meant the goalie was thinking of the secondary threat more often when they were there and not challenging the puck as much as they were. I don't think it is as drastic as some think as the ai defense tuning, ability to nudge players off the puck easier after being beat and possibly lower HUT ratings at the time also bailed players out from giving up many of these chances but I know we could improve the goalie short side with tuning and it will be something we can verify in the rollback period as HUT lineups and player skill gap/matchmaking rank will all stay the same and only tuning will change. There are mechanics we can improve in the future with the goalies as well in terms of more logic around puck carriers threat to score, secondary threats and save ability on weaker shots but if given the choice right now with what we have, would elect for the defense to have to do more covering the pass option/rebound and have the goalie focus on the puck carrier more aggressively like they were before.

    We don't have an exact date yet for the rollback but we are currently getting everything in place we will need to make the change and what feedback mechanisms will be put in place to get all the right feedback, etc.. Again I appreciate all the back and forth thus far as it is already a lot of info for us -- not that it is new -- but it is shaped a bit different under the context of the rollback and what that will mean both positive and negative vs why we should just roll back overall.
    Post edited by NHLDev on
  • gschill99
    1 posts Member
    edited January 5
    I understand where some people are coming from and I do not understand some others. I cannot stand that when I have 88 overall players with 95 or higher speed/acceleration get beat by 85 overall with 85 speed/acceleration players. And I completely agree that if it is an open ice breakaway the defense probably will not catch them. But when your better player gets toasted from the same area it is ridiculous. I am not buying anymore cards to get better players if all I have to do is bump into a player and steal the puck. What is the purpose of trying to get better cards/players if anyone can steal the puck off of a better player. I know this is a game but you very seldom see this in a real hockey game. Passing comes into this greatly. I understand in certain situations a lower player can steal the puck with a perfectly timed stick lift. However this happens to my better players way to much. So my main concerns are better players should be able to keep the puck from lower players and players with higher speed/acceleration should be able to beat lower players. I will not be buying anymore if all I have to do is bump into a player and steal the puck or have an 85 player keep pace with my 88's and higher players. Isn't this why we try to get higher ranked players?
  • the hitting as it is now is great... please don`t cause easier hits like nhl 19 beta as the hits in 19 beta are horrid... Please get rid of the short side shot glitch, its used in CS way to much GET RID OF IT PLEASE :(.

    The game is basically perfect just need to keep it the way it is, but get rid of Short side shot glitch on the faceoff circle paint.

    You could defend the circles more with better hits though.
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